SZ160P vs SZ160P/C - whats the difference?

Asus doesnt really have a local delear so I didnt even consider it a model for my.

 

I received this Email from Sony today about my P/C not being a P/C:

" Thank you for contacting Sony Direct Customer Care. In reference to your order# ST0602NNNNNNN, I have spoken with management and your unit is to be a black carbon casing. As you informed me this is not the case and you received a unit with regular black plastic. In this case the unit will have to be returned and reordered due to Sony does not have a exchange policy. I do apologize for the inconvenience and please contact me via e-mail if you wish to do so, so I may provide you will a pre-paid label from FedEx and your return authorization.


Thank you,"

 

Zii, where did you purchase your notebook?

Javier

 

SonyStyle.Com

 

After considering uranidiot's experience with the his/her replacement units all being plastic although the box said P/C, I have decided to see if its possible to get a full refund for the incorrectly supplied unit and then buy it from Japan via Dynamism as it seems that Sony Japan are shipping premium carbon units.

Any comments?

 

Check with Dynamism first - I got the premium carbon, but it appears to have possibly been limited edition, and now all the SZ90s have the black carbon I think. Either way, still carbon.

 

Wow, but I dunno if its worth $3k for the unit.

 

To buy it just for looks? No. I got mine for features I wanted in a laptop (got it the way I wanted, highest Core Duo processor, silver keyboard, sub-4lbs, 3 year warranty, etc.). Much better deal than the $2899 the US SZ180 will be IMHO. It's not cheap, but no SZ is really cheap to begin with.

 

I too recieved the plastic one from Datavision. 7 hour battery claim is one thing, but substituting plastic for carbon fiber and charging 500.00 for it is another. I will be demanding a refund or replacement.

 

:::

Just want to let all of you know, there are other
notebook use Carbon Fiber. All Black colour Lid
Z60t also use Carbon Fiber as standard. The CF
they use are called "CFRP(Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastics)"
But it is hiddened under the paint....!

ThinkPad Z60t 「ThinkPadブラック」モデルのトップカバーでは、
持ち運んで使うことを前提とした強度と軽さをバランスよく両立させるため、
航空機や車のボディーにも採用されている技術ハイブリッドCFRP※を採用。
液晶パネルを守る硬度を保ち、同時にモバイルに適した軽量な構成を実現

※ハイブリッドCFRP(Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastics) ：
2層にした炭素繊維の間に比重の軽い発泡材層を挟み込んだ複合素材​

Details here:
http://www-06.ibm.com/jp/pc/thinkpad/tpz60t/tpz60ta.shtml

Water Test Movie:
水に浮くほど軽いハイブリッドCFRPのトップカバー
ThinkPadの一部製品に使われているABS素材とハイブリッドCFRP使用のトップカバーの軽さを比較した内容などを紹介。


About the real Carbon Fiber SONY, the lid should show
"crisscross weave like" finish. Also, you can test your
CF SONY like IBM by put the CF Lid into water, if it's
real, it will float. If it's shink, it's fake.....! They are
just plastic....! Refund or ask for no charge exchange
for your fake CF SONY.

:::

 

Whoa, take it slowly, I bought the SZ18GP/C in Hong Kong which is supposed to be the premium carbon. It irked me that the lid 'looked' to be plastic until I held it under a strong light where I could see there was a texture to it that catches the reflection of the lights and I could see regular diagonal lines running across in a cross mesh pattern. I believe that Sony has coated these lids or painted them so it reduces the mesh effect. Definitely carbon fibre of some kind.

 

:::

Real CF

:::

 

That's what mine looks like under a strong light the diagonal patterns show up in the reflected lights. It is not clear under normal lighting conditions however, it looks like dark grey plastic with sparkly bits embedded in it.

 

I agree with Kantana - I took a MagLite to my SZ160 lid, and mine also shows very faint diagonal lines across. As discussed previously, though, that doesn't prove much of anything as far as what the lid is made of...

Javier

 

The Japanese model has a different exterior finish that highlights the crisscross pattern - the US model has been coated and this pattern is less visible.

 

case closed lol

 

I have peered very closely for several mins into my SZ160P case and my Sony Vaio VN-CX1 mouse, and both textures look the almost identical. This means that either I'm very lucky to have accidently bought a Sony carbon fibre mouse, or I have a plastic lid!

On all the pictures of the Japanese premium carbon case, the criss-cross pattern ends when the lid becomes parallel with the back of the section that houses the camera. This is marked with small etched line. On my US version there is a small etched line that marks where the lid lines up with the camera section. I wonder if this was used in part of the process to mark where something was meant to happen, but was omitted (either intentionally or not) by Sony.

Frankly, I am none the wiser, but whatever the case, what was the point of buying a premium model if no-one can tell the bloody difference between it and the non-preumium model?

Also, can someone tell me the difference between the 140P/C model they are selling on SonyStyle and the 160P (/C?) model I bought except that the 140P/C is a several hundred bucks cheaper and it has has a 120Gb drive while mine has a 100Gb drive? It might be the LCD thickness but learningcenter.sony.us is down so I cannot check.

 

Once again, regardless of carbon, the difference between the premiums (150 and up in the USA) and the non-premiums (140 and down) is the screen. The screens are better and thinner on the premiums, they are thicker and standard on the non-premiums. Motherboards, hard drives, et al., are the same AFAIK.

So if you don't want the better screen, get a non-premium and save some $.

 

Thanks for clearing this up, again, Fender.
z.

 

I just received this Email fron Sony Style:

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: SonyStyle Order# ST060NNNNNNNN
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:28:40 -0500
From:
To:


After speaking with the technical support manager and our VP of sales, the only SZ160 we sell in the United States is Carbon Fiber. This Carbon Fiber is solid black and is not the cross thatch work that most people are use to seeing as Carbon Fiber. Therefore the model you received is correct. I have included the links to our models sold in the US. I am sorry for the confusion and I too needed clarification on this matter.



VGN-SZ150P/C VGN-SZ160P/C VGN-SZ170P/C VGN-SZ180P/C is "Carbon Black".

http://www.learningcenter.sony.us/assets/Computers/Notebooks/SZ/SZspecs_a.html

"Carbon Black" is　the chassis of carbon.

Thank you,
--------------------------------

So, the Japanese carbon black is in fact the ROW's premium carbon, and the rest of the world doesn't have the Japanese premium carbon, at all.

 

I too received a SZ160P (or so it states in the lower left of the screen) in a SZ160P/C box. I ordered the SZ160P/C, so have I been duped? The screen casing definitely does not have a typical carbon fibre look or feel to it, and it flexes quite easily. I have read the statements contained in this thread, but has anyone come to an actual conclusion?

Also, does anyone have the contact information for the Sony Office of the President and other such useful contacts to express concerns over this marketing problem?

 

The comments in here about "all CF has a weave" are completely false. True, that is the lightest way to make things out of CF, and woven CF is very strong in ONE plane. chopped CF is used to make things very light but to arrange the fibers in different directions so as to increase the strengh of a material in more than one plane for injection molded components (as is used in many aerospace applications). Just look here at the companies that do just that:

http://www.google.com/Top/Business/Textiles_and_Nonwovens/Fibers/Man-made/Carbon/

How much resin is absored is absorbed is determined by the application. Wet carbon fiber (with a weave or without) that is done using a wet layup can be almost as heavy as fiberglass; dry carbon fiber (that is made in huge vaccum ovens or small vaccuum bags and heated) is where the weight savings come in.. I'm an avid weeekend racer, and it's the weight I look for when picking CF components, not the weave.

 

Great explanation! I couldn't have said it any better - that's what I was trying to explain when I posted earlier that you can't really tell if something is made of carbon fiber by simply looking at it... too many different end-use applications!

Javier

 

Dynamism has a picture of the three screen options in English.
Go to: http://dynamism.com/sz90/gallery.shtml and click on
one of the "black" thumbnails in the gallery.

They say their models are shipping with "Carbon Black" -- is
this the same case as the U.S. SZ160? Is there any wieght
difference between the "Carbon Black" and "Premium Carbon"
cases?

And has no one tossed their notebook in water to see if it floats?

 

I did a little more research and found an additional description of the case options on the Japanese SonyStyle site (clicking on one of the options just below the OS options). After translating with Bablefish, I got the following strange description of the difference between "premium carbon" and "black (the carbon)":

I am sure this sounds much better in the original Japanese. My interpretation of the computer translation is:

There are two color options for the LCD panel lid: "Premium Carbon" and "Carbon Black". Both have multiple layers of carbon fiber, reducing the wieght by 30% over magnesium alloy and increasing the strength by approximately 2 times. The premium carbon option uses a gelcoat that allows the beautiful multiple layers of carbon to be seen. Its appearance varies depending on the lighting and viewing angle. * Selecting "premium carbon" requires the web camera option (motion eye). The carbon black option is a matte black color. --- Recommended for business use. * Carbon black does not have the gelcoat.
​

I am sure someone who is fluent in Japanese can improve on this --- I am not sure what to make of the statement: "The crotch lining it is the color ring which has the composure."

 

Sure... definitely fight for a FULL REFUND. Then use the money to pay for a T-Series ThinkPad, a laptop that truly oozes quality, perfection and innovation and one that rightfully deserves the amount you pay for it . IMO

EDIT: Titanium composite casing if I may add.. stomps all over a cheap carbon fiber

 

Right... my T42 oozed so much quality that it got all over the motherboard and ruined it a year and a half after I bought it (with a 1 year warranty, no less...) IBM wanted $900 for a motherboard, so repair was not an option. To top it all off, I backed up my data EVERY week using IBM's Rescue and Recovery application. Little did I realize I was not only creating a proprietary backup, but a proprietary backup that could only be accessed from THE EXACT COMPUTER IT WAS CREATED ON... Thanks, IBM No laptop is perfect, but so far the combination of light weight, awesome screen (10x better than anything IBM EVER put out) and small form factor while still retaining optical drive are unmatched, IMO. You're in the wrong place if you want to trash Sony Vaio's...

Oh, and a comparably equipped T60 will run you about $2800, so I'm not sure that bodes well for the "value" proposition...

Javier

 

Questions for our resident chemical engineers: Besides appearance, what's the different between carbon fiber with a clear gel coat and carbon fiber reinforced plastic? Don't they both contain carbon fiber and plastic? The Boy Scouts describe a gel coat as a "specialized polyester resin". Isn't that plastic? Is CFRP weaker than carbon fiber with a gel coat?

Alas, I never did get my Composites merit badge.

 

That is unfortunate . I understand your dissapointment and because of the incident, the ThinkPad lost a customer to Vaio... But just to clarify (with no intention of hijacking this thread),

1. The Rescue & recovery backups can be accessed from any IBM computer. But now, they even started selling it for other systems.

2. every backup software has its own proprietary format... and anything sony makes is particularly, even the silliest of stuff...

 

IBM gone all wrong after lenovo bought the pc business off them.

 

Guys & gals those lids are carbon fiber they just have a different finish than 3rd carbon unit picture they offer in Japan. By reading this thread it looks like what caused this question to blow-out of proportion was that Sony rep who responded not knowing what he or she was talking about. In case I missed someone else’s post, you can check out various Asus units that feature carbon fiber composite lids & encasings, such as the Z33’s, V6’s and others and none of them have any sort of weave in them. And Sony does not offer a plastic lid for any SZ series; the other non-premium edition unit uses a magnesium encasing.

 

:::

Yes, the Asus Z33 is using "CFRP(Carbon Fiber
Reinforced Plastics)" as well....!
That's why it's lite...!

:::

 

Asus states differently, they state it is carbon fiber mag. alloy; but I am no chemical engineer, so if mag alloy is some sort of plastic, I am also going to get someone from Sony to tell us all excatly what type of Carbon Fiber encasings they are using on them and hopefully they will respond directly to this post.

 

From the UK I haven't noticed any difference.

We've had alot of notebooks. And therefore we've encountered problems with notebooks from most manufacturers at one time or another.

I have to say IBM have been the best when it comes to fixing things. Moreover, they generally provide the best standard warranty cover. My brothers T43p (one of the best machines we've had btw) for example is 3 years of the bat.

They also provide the best information about their products. And there's no ambuguity about what your going to get. Sony get themselves into an almight muddle with these region specific idiosyncrocies.

Moreover, Sony support can be very hit and miss. They can sometimes take the "tuff luck, what you gonna do" attitude. Not something you would expect from a manfucturer trying to sell style aswell as substance.

The only reason I still buy Sony (sometimes) is:

- Quality of the Vaio Screens
- Performance in a sub 14" form factor
- Style/Design

 

Its simple. Sony only sell the SZ with carbon fibre lids. In Japan there was the option of a third style lid with the pretty gelcoating on it, whereas the ROW didn;t get this option. What is noticable is that the TX seris in the US offer a state-blue lid, which looks like the carbon fibre weave, as far as I can make out, shown on the Japanese site for the SZ.

Also, note that Sony US has not released the SZ190P/C and I suspect that this will have the T2600 CPU inside it. If Sony US does something similar with the SZ as it has done with the TX range, then I would expect to see the SZ190 released with a state-black lid, which in fact may well turn out to be the premium carbon casing sold in Japan. Of course, I could be very wrong.

Although Sony JP still list the Premium Carbon case on its web site, when you try and check-out it says that the unit is no longer available. It seems that this was a limited run.

As someone else meantioned, when I asked the Sony Style salesman at time of purchase (end of Feb) whether the 160P/C had a premium carbon case like the Japanese counterpart he replied yes, but sadly he had been grossly misinformed.

 

There is no SZ190 - just the SZ180, which has the T2500. That is slated to be the top of the line but clearly has not been released.

Yes, the premium carbon was a limited run - now all SZ90 premiums are the black carbon.

 

To make a long story short, the "gel coat" in most consumer carbon fiber products IS plastic. The cross-weave pattern that people are talking about is actually a cloth that is woven from carbon fibers and different polymers, or plastics. This particular application is the best when rigidity (in relation to weight) is the most important factor. The carbon fibers can be interwoven with different types of epoxies to manipulate the tensile strength. It's also important to note that most "carbon fiber" accessories (coffee mugs, vehicle shift knobs and dashboards, etc.) are NOT REAL carbon fiber weave, but are carbon-fiber "patterned," or "finished." Be careful when buying!

Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic or Polymer, is exactly what the name implies - it's plastic with a form of carbon fiber in it (be it chopped, ground, or unwoven parallel-laid fibers). The fibers can be of any size and arranged in any direction. The compression or injection-molded variant of this product is by far the most popular use of CFRP, as it is also the cheapest to produce, given the recent price spikes and shortages of carbon over the last year.

whew!

Javier

 

I know, but I was speculating. Does anyone know why they didn't offer the T2600s on the SZ range?

I know that when Sony released the TX series it only came with the PM 1.2Ghz, while in JP it was offered with the 1.3Ghz. Sony now offer the TX with the 1.3Ghz CPU called the VGN-TX790PK1. Might the same happen with the SZ seris?

 

Its simple. Sony only sell the SZ with carbon fibre lids. In Japan there was the option of a third style lid with the pretty gelcoating on it, whereas the ROW didn;t get this option. What is noticable is that the TX seris in the US offer a state-blue lid, which looks like the carbon fibre weave, as far as I can make out, shown on the Japanese site for the SZ.

Have you not been paying attention? It is anything *but* simple. And I can't say that I appreciate people posting their speculations without clearly labeling it as such.

You state "Sony only sell the SZ with carbon fibre lids." Do you *know* this? or do you just think/wish/hope/dream this? I'm guessing the latter.

 

Well yeah, Japan usually gets top spec 1st when it comes to Sony and laptops, but I wouldn't speculate in this case because the 150, 170, and 180 have been proverbial vaporware to date, and they can't even easily fulfill the 160 orders they currently have or get them in stores like CompUSA or Micro Center fast enough.

And given the fact the 180 equivalent around the world is a numbered limited edition, I wouldn't think that anything above the 180 with a T2600 would come soon if at all from Sony here in the USA. Their current actions don't lead me to believe they want to flood the market with top end machines.

I think Sony US knows its largest sales base - they will sell more 110s, 120s, and 140s way before someone will plunk down $2500+ for a laptop, so the higher spec ones are more scarce.

 

Greetings

I have just purchased a ZS160P in an SZ160P/C box, and stumbled on this site the day after I got my new laptop.

I have read this thread with interest and initially with some alarm, but having thought it through, wanted to offer my insight into the issue. My background: PhD in materials engineering, with 25+ years of research and application experience in carbon fibre reinforced structures; professor at major university, regular consultant to industry.

Lots of valid comments regarding carbon etc., but I thought some order and structure to the discussion would be useful:

1) carbon fibre (also known as graphite fibre [albeit strictly incorrectly most of the time!]) is ideally used in the long form, where you get the most benefit. If chopped and injection moulded, then you lose lots of the benefit. Injection moulding chopped fibre/thermoplastic into a lid as thin as the SZ highly unlikely. Also, resulting stiffness will be less than magnesium, so lid would end up being heavier and thicker. So not chopped fibre injection moulded thermoplastic. Certainly not just plastic on its own - would end being much thicker and heavier than magnesium lid.

2) So carbon fibre must be in long form, what options? First, the fibre is provided in layers: layers can be woven (hence pretty pattern everybody is talking about) or unidirectional, which is more boring in look but structurally more efficient. Resin can be either injected in (Resin-transfer moulded or derivations thereof such VARTM [vacuum assisted RTM]) or resin can be pre-ompregnated into fibre and is called prepreg. Latter more expensive but gives best structural performance. So likely to be the latter. Lid is likely made by laying up sheets of uni (or woven) prepreg in matched metal mould and cured. So what about this controversy re look/surface finish?

3) Amongst benefits of CFRP (carbon fibre reinforced plastics [note that you can also reinforce metals with carbon fibre, though typically short fibres with less volume fraction) is the ability to make a net shape. However, a major major problem is surface finish (secondary problem is dimensional control or shape control). In the case of a high end laptop, what to do? In perfect case, have a beautiful glossy gel coat on top of exposed carbon fibre - nicest pattern from a weave. Great idea, but a manufacturing nightmare. The wove n fabric will distort easily and then instead of ooh-aah surface you will have unhappy customers - the simplest blemish will show. So, if you go for clear gel-coat expect lots of rejects/rework. So, my guess is that some laptops (the small run some talked about) was made either as a special effort/demo or by taking the best made lids from a larger production run. What about the rest? Well, one solution is to add one thin layer of matte cloth to the outside surface and to make this slightly resin (epoxy) rich. This will give the matte surface we are all seeing on our lids. So, my net conclusion is that we all have CFRP lids, that most of our lids have a matte/resin rich surface for good (easy) surface finish, but that a select run have the fancier glossy gel coat finish exposing the grain of the woven fabric.

4) I wish I did have the woven fabric finish, as I definitely bought this model because of my profession and activities! However, if anybody does for any reason diassemble a lid, look for telltale features on the inside surface such as the fibrous look others mentioned, or look at the edge of the lid and see if you can see a layered appearance - you should see 2-4 layers I would guess... (truly a guess)

Hope the above helps.

 

visitor,

Great explanation. Moderator should sticky your post just so people have an understanding of CF on ALL notebooks.

 

Visitor,
DO you know the best way to clean the carbon fibre gel coated casing, and any care tips? I don't want to botch it with a daft cleaning product.

Cheers, z

 

:::

Soft Car Wax.....!

:::

 

Greetings to Visitor,

I am very impressed with your educated answers to the differences.

From the perspective of a plastic manufacturer of laptop casing, who used to own injection mould machines making ABS plastic casing for laptop, what are the essential changes or addition to machines for him to produce carbon fibre reinforced plastic laptop casing ?

Can the same injection moulding be used or significant process changes needed to be incorporate the migration from producing traditional plastics casing to carbon fibre casing for laptops ?

Can you also kindly advise a comparison between ABS plastics and Carbon fibre reinforced plastics for laptop casing ? I know for a fact that carbon fibre laptop are scratch-resistant but i thought it is more expensive to produce carbon fibre, but laptop prices are heading south also.

Thanks very much.

Yangae

PS. I am not a plastic manufacturer and has limited knowledge in this area. I am an investor looking at companies that manufacture laptop casings and wonder what significant changes in fixed assets is required for a plastic manufacture to transform to making carbon fibre laptops.