Sony Quality

Hi,
I've only used Thinkpads for the last probably 10 years so I know what to expect. If anyone has recently used Sony notebooks, I'd appreciate to know about the build quality and how they hold up being lugged around the city three days a week.

For me, fast boot, battery life, screen and keyboard are important. I only use it for net/email and Office apps, sometimes video. The Sonys seem to have good reviews especially the screens.

Really the Thinkpad Edge would probably work for me, but 3.6 pounds where the Sony Z is only 3 pounds better screen, faster, similar battery life; and the Sony X is even lighter (if it only had a 12" screen) but still a consideration. Looks like the X201 screen isn't going to be a step up from the x200 and I don't want to modify a new notebook. Thanks.

 

for starters, you're probably in the wrong forum...sony forum is lower down the list (literally) http://forum.notebookreview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1002

anyway...the three models you mentioned, thinkpad edge, sony z and sony x are three very different models - so-called CULV, traditional notebook, and a netbook (respectively)

performance wise Z is definitely the best out of the three, whereas X is the lightest. edge would be the one in the middle. all i can say is, according to your description i believe z and edge would both satisfy you, whereas x (or any netbook for that matter) would only realistically work if you have not much expectation performance wise. if you like the thinkpad keyboards, you probably won't like the sony's keyboards. X's keyboard is just too small, whereas Z's keyboard is roughly the same size as edge, but not as nice to type on.

if screen is important to you i believe Z would give you the best screen, whereas x would be in second place.

in fact, i reckon the only two places where the Z would lose to edge is the price and (maybe) build quality. i'm not a great fan of sony's build quality either, but that's just me.

 

Yeah, wrong forum.

Sony's are OK, but they are not long-term platforms with interchangable parts like ThinkPads.

Not comparable IMO. VAIO are more inline with Ideapads (although the X100 and Edge are not really ThinkPads if you agree with my definition). The X is really just a super high end consumer device.

 

I have Thinkpads and everyone here is on the same page when it comes to build quality. Asking in the Sony forum, well, they don't have the same build expectation a Thinkpad owner may have.

Performance isn't the driving issue for me and a highend netbook would probably meet my needs. This is just a mobile machine to lug around to job sites. I just want to know that after a year of careful but mobile use, will I be stuck with a notebook that is in pieces. I've seen my friends with Dell keyboards losing keys after the first year.

I waited for the x201 to see if there would be an improvement in the screen as that has been the one thing holding me back, but looks like (unfortunately) it is the same quality as the x200.

The EDGE is $800 + and another $300 for a SSD, it is about half as much as the Sony.

 

Moved to Sony forum section

 

I've been using Dell since 2004, Latitudes exclusively. Just wanted to get my "background" out of the way so put my observations into better context.

My first (and only one at the moment) VAIO is the Sony SR. I think it has a way better screen that any of my Dells, chicklet-style keyboard is easy to type on, and overall the computer is light and feels like it it built well.

Style is a plus, LED-backlit screen is bright, and the performance is also good. "Flawless" is a word I would choose to describe the performance, but it's not an apples-to-apples comparison against my previous machines since this machine is running W7 as well as a newer Intel platform. Still, it is quite good.

My wife has a CS. While she enjoys that computer, it is a lot heavier, the screen is a lot less bright, the viewing angles are narrower, and overall feels more like a toy than business machine. I bring this up because I wanted to let you know, at least in my opinion, that not all the models from Sony are the same. Probably applies to all brands anyway.

So there. A limited review from a recent convert. I started using my SR in December 2009 and at least for now, am sticking with Sony.

Regards,
Paolo
SR520G

 

I cant say by experience but what Sony is showing for battery life on all their models (except atom and ULV) is really bad battery life. They show like 2 on one, 3 and half on another. its just not that great. They make up for it though with powerful components and nice screens like the vaio z line.

remember battery life is almost always shorter then what they claim under real usage. all im saying is just to look at what they claim it is.

 

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback.

Actual battery life, with wifi on, is going to be a big factor for me. Also, I've read complaints about sony notebook screen damage from too much flex, so that's another thing I want to see in reviews.

I've seen the X in the Sony store and it really is a sexy little machine. I think I'd regret it though as the screen is small. I'm going to wait until the local sony store gets the Z and have a side by side look. If they have a decent return policy, I might just pick up the X and try it for a week or two.

 

After repairing and working on several Lenovos and Sony's over the years, it just depends on the models. Build quality is somewhat subjective, in some ways I think Sony is better, in some ways I think Lenovo is better.

Some Sony's are quite high in quality and durable, others not as much but still tend to be better built than most. As mentioned the keyboard depends on what you are used to. I dislike the Sony chicklet because it catches my fingernails on the corners, but in general they type well. Parts interchangeability isn't the same as some Lenovos, however because Sony does keep the same models for a while, you can interchange some parts, just not over as long of a time frame as the Lenovo. I don't think you will go wrong with a Sony or Lenovo in general, but lately Lenovo's prices have been a bit high for what you get. Sony you get a great machine, but rather mediocre support.

I don't think you really need a Z, but I'm sure you wouldn't mind. It's probably just overkill. It woudl be my personal choice though. I woudl stay clear of the X though, I have heard reports that the screen isn't so good, and the cpu is just not impressive.

 

it's an atom...what do you expect

 

I really am not surprised to see a lot of Lenevo fans claim that Lenevo has a better build quality than Sony, based on that chart from last Fall they have similar defect rates.

As others have said, it also varies with the model. From what I have read Sony is definitely one of the top manufacturers of notebooks and yes, they have a reputation for their screens.

That said, I only got my first VAIO yesterday and I love it for the most part. Nice slick design, perfect touchpad, excellent chiclet keyboard, no gloss, no fingerprint magnet, magnesium alloy lid and deck.

This is the Y-series by the way, which seems it would fit your needs save for the screen. I don't mind the screen, but VAIO enthusiasts have noted that the screens on the F-series, S-series, Y-series, and CW-series have been of lower quality than what is expected of Sony and that is probably due to Sony trying to keep prices down in this market.

As for flex screen issues, from what I understand that is unusual with Sony. My Y-series doesn't flex when you try to twist the lid if you wanted to know.

 

I've used a few Samsungs in my days and I can say that moving to Sony was quite a change. My Z is my first VAIO, but it is also my smallest laptop to date; had a 15' and 14' in the past and they still work, just that they couldn't keep up with software industry's ever increasing hardware requirements. They were never taken into service, though the 15' I have does have 1x dead pixel showing today. I used each of them for 4 years, so all good.

When I bought the Z, my first expectation was to make it last me 4 years through university.
Though that didn't happen; the Z needed its LCD changed after the entire display just randomly started showing dying pixels just before I did a live video encode. Couldn't live with it because video encoding is one of my (newer) hobbies. I mean, 1x pixel and I wouldn't have complained. But half a dozen clusters of dying pixels, each about 20 pixels in diameter, visible head on and more from an upward angle... My Vaio is now a year and 2 months old. Personally, I don't see this machine lasting me another 2 years unless I improvise on protecting the screen. I carry it in a case as you do with laptops, and I even follow the ridiculous notion Sony suggests by sticking a piece of cloth between the screen and keyboard. Granted, the Z is pretty thin, so I'll tolerate the cloth bit. Just can't understand why the clusters appeared. Display was on for 2 hours non stop but that's the only stress I can think of...
And by the way, no pressure on my screen purposely exerted; it may happen in the bag, but I don't let anyone touch the screen, not even myself...

But all this does lead me to believe (as others in different threads pointed out) the industry is beginning to push the boundaries of how thin lappies can be these days. The Z is one obvious example.

So all in all, the Z is probably my first and last VAIO, but I'll keep an ear out for the new Z, unless of course it brings about another set of problems for the ones it fixes (**cough graphics and screen marks cough**). As it is now, I've got a new screen shipped in from Singapore and had it replaced under warranty (thank goodness my one came with 2 years instead of 1).

And by the way, I asked a Sony service fellow if it's possible to interchange my top lid with a premium carbon one, the ones that the high end Zs come with. I was willing to pay for it, but was told it 'doesn't fit'. I don't get it; they are the same exact models but different casings and but should be the exact same dimensions. Any comments to that? I'm pretty keen on hardware modding my Z to the max once the warranty goes out (SSD, CPU, maybe the 1080p screen the new Z comes with)...

 

I like sony, I'm liking the FW and F lines

 

dude your post makes me laugh (the first paragraph).

Lenovo/Ibm make CRAP laptops.
My gf had a 2008 model tablet notebook. Dude it's like taped up in 10 different places to hold bits and pieces togther.

They dont HAVE "build quality".

Sony on the other hand far as I've experienced is awesome.
I have the sony vaio Z.

There is no comparison, especially in the weight-size-specs department. Which lets face is. Is basically 90% of what counts in a laptop...

I've banged mine around, held it open by the LCD screen and after all that it's still perfect no damage nothing.

You know the only single problem I've ever had in the 1.5 years I've had it?

One of the rubber feet on the bottom fell off. thats it. awesome laptop.

Sony vaio Z. The End.

 

When IBM was making the Thinkpad, it was a tank. My first Lenovo model, the T61, a disappointment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad

When IBM had it, you paid a significant premium for a ThinkPad because it used premium components, build quality and service. The IPS screen on my A31p is still one of the best I've seen.

Lenovo changed all that to get pricing in line with most other manufacturers. Certainly, you aren't paying the premiums IBM charged to own a Thinkpad. But now, the brand just isn't what if had been. Lenovo can't even get the distribution right with long delays on delivery and poor customer service.

Right now, my plan is to wait and read some reviews on the new Z, check it out in the local Sony shop. If it looks solid and has good battery life, I'll probably go for it.

 

I have a Lenovo T61 and I have never had a single problem with it. The body is still solid and everything works flawlessly. It even has one of the defective Nvidia GPUs from a year ago, but because the cooling is so good, it hasn't failed. However, I'm looking at the Z now because the T61 weighs about 6 lbs...

 

I got my T61 as soon as it was released. In the first month I replaced mine twice as the case was warped. Even the one I have now, it rocks a bit on my desk. The palm rests aren't what they had been with a lot of flex. The screen isn't as good as I expected. Picky, maybe, but this was my fourth Thinkpad and noticeably lower quality from my prior models. I was holding out for the X201/201s but those screens still get very low marks in reviews.

Although the T61 it is in one piece and works, I'm ready to try something new. My need is really for a really good netbook, if the Sony X had a 12" screen I'd probably go for that. I need something light with, long battery life, to carry in NYC from job to job more than processing power. My T61 will remain my primary notebook for now.

 

When Lenovo first acquired IBM's notebook division they cheapened them.
They are making them better than they were.

Look at what you get for the money these days I don't like recomending Lenovo. Sorry, but putting 1 or2 gigs of ram in a laptop and expecting what Lenovo asks is a deal killer.

Sony, I hate recommending for support reasons.
Sony really annoys me, but I love their notebooks.

 

Well, i work for an authorized Lenovo/IBM and Sony service and repair center. We are also authorized for Apple, HP and others.
Im in charge of receiving the parts that the technicians order to repair the laptops. Ive worked for this repair shop for more than 15 years. I can say without a doubt that Ibm/Lenovo does not have good build quality. They are always breaking and the parts i see pass by my desk the most are motherboards, back and front panels and keyboards. Alot of drives both DVD and hard also.

For every Sony part we order, we order 15 Ibm parts, no kidding.

 

The Z is probably the best of the current VAIO's in terms of build quality.

However build quality *has* been going down, from what I can see principally as a result of engineering/designing to make laptops easier to manufacture. Obviously at the low end this is inevitable, but that it's also happening at the flagship end is what made me abandon Sony in '09.

However the current Z especially is a very compelling machine - there's nothing like it out there, and since the design has received an unusual (if I'm correct, what happens in a model after a year and a half is a minor spec refresh - not a fairly major overhaul) refresh, I'm going to take another look at it.

 

I had been planning to buy an F11. Saw it in Best buy. Feels cheap and plastic like. I felt like it would evetually crack just with routine use. It looked really trash and poorly designed.

 

I saw the F11 in Best Buy and I have no idea what you meant by "cheap" and "plasticy". Especially compared to the competition.

 

I had a F11, and sent it back due to poor build quality and poor LCD. It was one of the worse laptops I have seen seriously. Don't let the Sony name blind you on that machine.

 

A lot has changed in the notebook-market, well-build devices are hard to get, the upper class of the 90s (like IBM) which cost >4000$ is simply not existing anymore.
Some Sonys seem to be well-build like the X or new Z, but most other models aren't even manufactured/assembled by Sony but by OEMs in China. It's the same with Apple, Lenovo... Design is different, if the client wants some nice metal he gets it, but don't expect major differences in build-quality - they're made by the very same suppliers in the very same fabs with the very same horrible production standards common in China.
I'm a mechanical engineer and even the "innovative" unibody-machining from Apple (Foxconn?) is 20 years behind NC-machining used in Germany, for example - let's hope the machining used in the new Z is made in Japan with better technology.
These are all singular aspects of quality - don't trust the brand (because it's not more than that) but inspect quality for every model individually.

 

Wow Sushi,

I really feel sorry for you.

I have 4 VAIOs myself and never sold any of them off so they're still with me today.
None of them have broken down except for one which required a HDD change. [The rest of the machine is still working perfectly]

They are the TZ, 2 x SZ and the Z which I am using now.

While I'm a huge fan of the VAIOs ever since I went to them [Used to be Fujitsu since they were the only ones in the world to create ultraportables below 2kg with everything built in for the P series] I wouldn't say VAIOs are built to be tough. Everytime I look at them, I worry about whether I'm going to break something.

But all my VAIOs have lasted through their use and they're all still in use today, especially my Z which travels around the world with me and is being used daily.

I hope your next notebook, which isn't going to be a Sony, works out much better. i believe you were really hit with the short end of the straw for your current Z.

 

I'd have to step in and say that I do not think VAIOs are particularly sturdy. I look after my notebooks and while none of my 4 VAIOs have broken down, they all look quite flimsy to me compared to the old thinkpads.

When I have a friend asking me for advice and sturdiness is one of their key requirements, I would gently steer them away from VAIOs and would suggest that they look at the ThinkPads/Toughbooks/Macs instead.

Those weigh like a brick [which is totally unacceptable for my work travel purposes] but are known to be a lot stronger.

 

Hi mgerbasio,

The VAIOs have some pecular problems. I don't wish that you'd come in with nasty surprises.

To me, the VAIOs aren't built solid...but that's precisely why they are super light. The top of the end supercars in the world aren't known for their safety scores since they're all built with carbon fiber too. But they were built to be super light.

If you're looking at the Z, I'd have to say that you're looking at the premium lightweight notebook in the world and I'd have to discount "solid" for that.

Battery life is going to be an issue for you as well because VAIOs have a terrible problem with losing charge even when the machine is switched off. [Unbelievable because I've not heard of any other brands having this problem]

You may want to consider some other brands like Dell/Asus for solid+performance?
They're both pretty established brands with a reputation for quality.

 

Wow Georg,

Thanks for the eye-opener with the build quality. I didn't even think my Z was made in Japan. Isn't it designed in Jap and made in China too?

But I'm more curious now...if this German NC machining technology is 20 years ahead of what we're getting from Foxconn, which brand is actually using such rocket science parts? I'd love to take a look at that brand.

 

Please, make sure people see this thread first http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=400972 before saying that again. Z's screens are great, if you don't mind diagonal lines on all your moving images or when you move your head a little

 

As pointed out more than once, Sony support sucks and very few if any companies will tell you what parts interchange. Most of them are not really intimately familiar with parts interchangeability unless it's an identical part. That's not their job. Their job is to put it back to factory spec.

I woudl say it's 100% possible to change the lid on your Z, but understand it may not be as simple as just the lid. You may have to replace the entire upper shell, and maybe even the screen itself.

 

I'm torn.

I was a huge fan of the old-school Thinkpads (owned 3 previously), and when Lenovo took over the product line I was willing to give them a chance and bought a T60p. My initial excitement over its specs in 2005 (1600x1200 in a 15" was pretty rare at the time) gradually waned as things started failing. Although it has remained in service over nearly 4 years, throughout this time it has gone through 3 LCD panels (the current one is dead due to backlight failure, I need to always have it on an external monitor now), 3 inverter cards, and 1 catastrophic hard drive failure. The plasticky panels that Lenovo uses have gradually developed more and more creaks.

To Lenovo's credit, when I had to warranty the first LCD panel, they did allow me to perform the operation myself, after a simple "Are you sure you know how to do this?". Any other manufacturer would likely have scoffed and had me send it to a service center, which would have resulted in days of lost productivity for me.

While I historically have not been a fan of Sony ANYTHING, particularly their PCs (and the current-generation Z I just saw at Fry's felt like the LCD/lid was made of cardboard), I'm willing to give the Z a try based on its specs and glowing initial reviews. I do a fair amount of everything on my notebooks, and travel everywhere with it, so high-performance in an ultralight package has huge appeal to me. I'll likely wait to hear the first real customers' feedback before I place my order, though. Service and support still remains a question mark, too.

The other notebooks that I'm considering are the new HP Elitebook 5440w, and the MacBook Pro. The HP, at about 5 lbs., is not exactly in the same category of machine as the new Z. But the types of abuse this thing is designed to withstand is impressive. With a preconfigured pricetag of $1649 (i7-620m / 4GB / 320GB), it's all the more tempting.

As for the MBP, it's due for a refresh (looking long in the tooth with its Core2Duos), but for some reason I have a feeling Apple isn't swinging for the fences with this update.