Sony SA Series Discussion Sony's next new 13.3 laptop

I used a stopwatch and reached 27sec. But the VAIO bios logo stays in the screen for 14! seconds, so thats mostly the thing that makes the boot slower. Still though 27sec is incredibly fast.

Boottime is longer, becouse the extra harddrive triggers the Raid menu that runs behind the vaio logo.

 

yep usually the bios or in this case UEFI is the killer of the boot time affictionados

 

@al-xs Ya, I've seen pics of the SA's insides, and it's not like I haven't tinkered with computers before

From what I've seen the M4's predecessor (RealSSD C300) annihilates the Vertex 2 in every read/write operation. However the Intel 510 is faster than the M4 according to anandtech, and faster than all but the Vertex 3 at sequential read/writes, though it's terrible at random operations. I can try and get the VAT back on it as well and that will be only £300 for the 256GB M4! The Intel 250GB 510 is around £80 more sans VAT, for an increase in sequential reads/writes of about 50-100 MBps. Plus I'd probably trust Intel's drivers and SSD config utility more.

It should do, since the SB has the display listed as '1366x768 VAIO Display' and the base SA1X9E has the display listed as '1600x900 VAIO Display Plus'. Display Plus is a lot better than standard VAIO Display, but not quite as good as Display Premium in the Z. I do hope that there is a Display Premium option for the SA (anything you can say on this matter beaups?).

 

I would also ask to beaups, what's this "Ultimate Mobile PC"
Sony teases 'Freestyle Hybrid PC' tablet slider and next-gen ultra-portable laptop -- Engadget

It looks like the rumoured Z to be ultra thin without discrete GPU and ODD (that are in an additional station)... http://www.sonyinsider.com/2011/03/...hybrid-pc-and-vaio-chrome-coming-this-summer/ (Beaups, what do you think about that VAIO Hybrid PC in the second link? It's the new Z? And if it's not a fake.. what will be the starting price?? Will it include both the components?)

@ The_Z: where did you see those pics of SA?

 

Whoot someone from Belgium

Yeah, I saw the Education page too on Belgian Vaio website, but I can't get the voucher code to work neither :-/

Still gonna wait for SA

 

If you have to dock it to use the discrete graphics, count me out. Playing games sitting under a tree in the yard (or in bed) is too much to give up.

 

unfortunatly the uk cto site lists the SB as having display plus so while the SA will have a higher resolution it won't have better colour and brightness as found on the Z's, unless its an extra option.

Re replacing the hard drive, I take it Sony will stick to sataII ssd's what kind of real world difference in restarts, loading programmes will one of the new generation ssd's provide and why don't manufacturers use these drives?

 

It's a little strange this point.. in some web site, SB comes with a Vaio Display... not PLUS... in other it comes with a PLUS... but the performances of this display are like any other Vaio Display NOT plus... ...plus display has always been much better.... so, it may be their mistake.

 

The 'VAIO Display Plus' is a mistake, I believe, as preconfig models almost always have the standard 'VAIO Display' listed.

On the point of SSDs, I thought Sony weren't going to be affected by the early issues with the SATA controller in Sandy Bridge motherboards, because only the 3Gbps SATA ports were affected, meaning the drives were to be connected to the 6Gbps SATA ports.

 

Looking at the uk site at the moment all the pre-config models have display plus listed, anyone own an SB could confirm what screen came with.

on the ssd I just meant it seems all pc manufactures seem to use older toshiba/samsung drives.

I just hope they come out soon, if only I pre order a cto so it was delivered on release day.

 

OH SHIIITT!!! That "hybrid pc" is definitely the next Z. Its even lighter now! and You know its only gonna contain the best parts of planet earth. That 2nd component concept is GENIUS!!! Can't wait to drop a couple grand on this !!! =DDDD

 

Notebookcheck's review of SB has also mentioned the screen as "Plus-Display". They could have just copied what Sony's configuration page says, but they seem a reliable source.

I really hope SA has a good display. Z is too expensive for me and I really don't need a good graphics card let alone 2 of them. But I realize everyone has a different view of what SA should be.

 

It's only in the USA sites that Sony doesn't list VAIO Display Plus, on all other Countries Site's it claims VAIO Display Plus. I've seen ALL EU sites and many Asian so that's where i am basing to state this. And although not as great as the Z's or the Mac's it is the best of all others so far so it's fair..

keep in mind i do believe the rumor different displays are roaming around.




on another matter the SB has one SATA3 connection (the one in the HDD tray, and if you get a RAID0 setup it will come with 2) and has another SATA2 for the ODD. the Chipset supports 2 ports with SATA3 and 4 with SATA2. So to make it clear this is the revised stepping, so no problems with SATA3 whatsoever.

Sony used Samsung SSD's probably because they are quiet,lowpowered, very reliable and cheap and that's only the main reasons from the consumer point of view. On another hand G3 SSD's weren't available when the SB came out so it was impossible anyway..


PS: The Z Acronis True Image is often recommended, both free and paid versions are great.
and so you can understand why i warn about Sony's OVERpriced SSD's in RAID0 (which you are paying more for less performance than the Intel's/Crucial's/OCZ's)

TRIM with RAID:

From AnandTech:

“For months now you all have been asking me to tackle the topic of RAIDing SSDs. I’ve been cautious about doing so for a number of reasons:

1) There is currently no way to pass the TRIM instruction to a drive that is a member of a RAID array. Intel’s latest RAID drivers allow you to TRIM non-member RAID disks, but not a SSD in a RAID array.

2) Giving up TRIM support means that you need a fairly resilient SSD, one whose performance will not degrade tremendously over time. On the bright side, with the exception of the newer SandForce controllers, I’m not sure we’ve seen a controller as resilient as Intel’s.”

So in short:

You can use two or more SSDs in RAID, you just need to pick the right SSDs. My recommendation would be use either one of these, in this order:

A SandForce based SSD, such as Corsair Force series or OCZ Vertex 2/Agility 2/Vertex 3 series.
Toshiba controller based SSDs (Mostly some Kingston models).
2nd generation Intel SSDs (Need more information on the new Intel 510 series).
You can use other SSDs for RAID, but I wouldn’t recommend it, since performance will degrade over time, slowing down the SSDs to a crawl which is not something that you’d want when you pay for two or more SSDs.

 

^^ I would guess that the choice for SSDs bows down to price. The samsungs are much cheaper

 

I don't think their Plus display is good or above average:

SB review

 

I've seen a VAIO SB in store yesterday, it looked pretty good to me. The design with the rectangular lines is much less pronounced compared to what it looks like on photo. The Display Plus just means the display is semi-matte/matte. Display Premium = Matte + High Quality. The display is just average, unfortunately (1366x768 one). The semi-matte coating is pretty amazing though, and (in my opinion) really makes up for the loss of contrast and the bad black value.

Still, let's hope we'll get a better display, Sony can do much better.

 

Yea i saw a live unit too. I thought the screen was unimpressive and the touchpad keys were too stiff, and the touchpad was kinda laggy.

It was alright for a low end laptop, but im looking for something a little more premium.

 

I agree completely. It was good for a $1000 laptop, but when you look at it side by side with the Z you can see why the Z is double the price.
The screen quality is very noticeable and looks a little washed out compared to the Z.

 

Is the keyboard on the "old" S same as the new SB?
The S feels much more plastic compared to the Z13.

 

@ak-xs damn, I didn't know RAIDed SSDs didn't support TRIM. If I'd known that I'd never had even considered them.

The Intel 510 has the same Marvell contoller as in the Crucial M4, but performance seems to be tweaked a little so to be able to compete with the sequential read/write speeds of the Vertex 3. However random read/write speeds are worse than previous Intel models with their own controller. Also, I haven't seen or read anything about Kingston SSDs. I've only had experience with their USB drives, and SanDisk ones are faster and better in my experience.

I'd definitely go with the Vertex 3 - it seems to beat the competition in almost every operation, sometimes by even 20% - but I'm just worried about what I've heard about their drivers, esp with what I've heard about the Vertex 2.

@Mr MM the Samsung 470 256GB doesn't seem to be any cheaper than competing SSDs from Crucial (M4, C300) and Intel (510).


BTW, since I last checked, the SB's spec on the UK site has changed - the screen is listed as 'Display Plus'. This is also true for the CTO page. Possibly Sony have found/produced better screens and are fitting them to newer models? That rumour may prove true. Otherwise, as I wrote in my first impressions post on page 233 (#2330), the screen is better than what I've seen from competing manufacturers in this price range (save the glossy 13" MBP), especially with that semi-matt coating, but it is nowhere near as good as the screen on the Z right next to it.

@Fresh-Grass don't forget that it's easier and cheaper to produce high-quality 15" displays than 13" ones. Most 13" and even 14" laptops out there have poor displays, with that horrible 'one size fits all' 1366x768 resolution. The only truly great 13" display is the one in the Vaio Z. The MBP's display lacks the contrast that I've seen in the Z and doesn't cover the Adobe RGB spectrum as well as the Z's does, plus it only has a 1280x800 res.

My view on the SA, though, is that because it's supposed to be the model to fall back on if you don't like what the new Z is, it should have a great graphics card and a great screen, but in a slightly larger and cheaper package than the Z. Personally I need the most powerful laptop I can buy, and I need every component to be as fast as possible, but the machine to also be portable and useful on the move - by what I mean if I need to sit down and play a game or do some CAD work or rendering or whatever, I don't want to have to plug in an external box in order to have a decent graphics card.

 

The samsung is indeed cheaper and one of the few that still makes OEM contracts.

The controller on the 470 is very different from the one on the Z, I cant say which is the one in the SA since nobody got it

 

I know what you mean, but the Z is THE COMPUTER, while the SA is like its less successful little brother. I'm afraid the SA will not have the premium feature of the Z, like build quality, screen, etc.

And the Z will come with Intel 3000 graphics undocked, which should hold up pretty well with CAD and games if u ever really need to use it undocked. I would probably only need a graphics card when im sitting at my desk.

 

Deleted post...

 

Best Buys now has the SB on display. The gray colored casing has the silver keyboard area with black keys. The color combination looks pretty good. Also, stopped by at Sony Style and their high-end SB is at $2499.99 with i7, Blu-Ray, 256SSD some to mention.

 

Could you say how the screen on the SB compared to the older i core S?

 

You sure it's not the Best Buy exclusive SC?

 

well i think this is my worst dilemma to date this SSD choice.

although Vertex3 is the fastest you should be weary of possible issues that the previous SandForce controllers had (just search for vertex2 problems and you'll be overwhelmed with stuff about it online)

now Intel are the slowest except for sequential read/writes which are the least important since OS drives are random read/write intensive and not seq. but that said they are also the more reliable and the more expensive one's.

Crucial's... words fail me. They are just bellow Vertex3's performance in random read/writes really close and not to far back on everything else, they are the performance 2nd best. this while being the one's that use less power, which is great for this laptops and, brace yourself:

they are £100/100€ less than Intel/OCZ SSD's!!! this on the 128 and 256Gb versions, because the 512Gb is JUST £800 with TAX, 600 without!!!
so you can understand the commotion, vertex3 480Gb is 1300 (so less storage for more money,lot's more) and Intel's 510 500Gb is above 1000 if you can find it...

So if you have the money, specially if you can buy tax-free (aka buy to re-sell from say, pixmania-pro) you can buy a Crucial M4 512Gb for less than a RAID0.
or buy a 256Gb at 50 more than competition 128Gb models tax-free and at 400 with tax.
or buy a 128Gb for 200 with tax, so 50 less than competition also (tax free only saves you 30 more.. which makes a still impressive 1/3 less)

 

Spoke to EU sales department today. Preliminary launch date for SA1Z in Sweden is in june. But Sweden is always late and much more expensive

 

Sounds like my girlfriend...

 

My mistake. Your right, it was the SC I saw at Best Buys with the exterior gray lid, silver keyboard and black keys. The SB was at Sony Style.

The screen resolution was fairly the same as the outgoing S.

 

How about viewing angles and clarity?

 

saw the SB in PC world, it is very light and overall looks great, but the footprint is pretty big, looks about the same size as the envy 14" and while the SA will be even lighter its the same size.

The screen not sure if the setting can be adjusted but it does look washed out when compared to all the other laptops i saw.

 

Yesterday I saw the SB for the first time in local sony dealer. Nice design. Doesnt seem bad. But After using VPC-Z. that cheap plastic lid for a 3000$ laptop? (i7-bluray-128ssd in turkey) It wouldnt have any chance for me to buying it. It deserves 1800$ i7-256ssd +bluray. to be more competetive. It is heavy. It feels cheap. and its manufacturing cost is cheaper than old Z. Also made in china. Not acceptable sony. not acceptable.

 

Sony S-Series Dock and Battery Slice Review

 

Has there been any indication whether the SA premade models or CTO would be available with HDDs as well as SSDs? I like the idea of the higher def screen, but I would want to swap in my own SSD, and I'd rather not pay a premium for a built-in SSD I won't even use.

 

beaups mentioned there would be HDD models available. It's not clear if they will be available pre-built or exclusively CTO

 

Whats wrong with Sony's SSDs? And the Z will probably have custom SSDs that you wouldnt be able to replace, like the old Z.

 

Sony's SSD's aren't exactly bad but they are not comparable to the newer SSD models in the market. Given that SATA 3 SSD's are coming out (with improved speed and reliability), the older generation SSD's are losing their triumph, therefore starting to be looked down upon by people.

 

There's an opportunity here. The older geration Ssds may be inferior to the newest SATA3 versions, but they still run circles around the best HDs, so look for bargains as the "old" models go on sale and crash through the $1/GB price point. Or at least one can hope. Seriously rhough, other than for some massive disk i/o operartions, how much more speed than the current/past gen SSDs could one possibly even perceive?

 

Well problem is, Sony still charges you for a premium price for *old* tech, which is the real bugger here. Sony should have at least cut the price down a bit if they're offering a sub-par SSD.

People probably won't be satisfied until they see their machines boot up in 5 seconds (then the competition will be in milleseconds >_>), their 500 GB collection of videos getting transferred in a minute, or opening up Vegas Pro as fast as MS Word.

 

Nothing wrong specifically, and I'm not even moving to SATA3. But I picked up an Intel 320 300gb for ~$400 (price per GB was just too good to pass up, and large enough for a primary system drive without need for a HDD) and want to use that.

 

I'm just thinking that, like Vencoris says about even new/old tech SSDs, they are cheaper and easily used in any machine that holds a 2.5" drive, as the Z does by removing its ODD. Seems like getting a machine with an "obsolete" SSD array as the Z's have become on the cheap-ish, and installing one of those Intel 300 GB SSDs in the ODD bay, you get a very fast, very wonderful machine with a total of 428 GB of SSD storage to play with...and a few thousand milliseconds on their hands to figure out what to do with

 

what happened to that guy? beacups?

 

They have shared all what they could in this thread. In such a position members might feel the need to consider possible implications of sharing such information or further information.

Anyway moving on, pretty much everything is out there about these models that we need to know bar the weight of the SA.
I know there is some debate whether the SA may get a premium display CTO.
At this point I don't think we would have been able to gain any insight on that and just need to wait and see.
The SA will be released at the start of June in the EU anyway.
I'm sure it will start showing up with more resellers over the coming weeks.

 

Good points. I must say, though, for a model with alot of Sony's ongoing perception as a purveyor of "prestige" notebooks riding on its most deluxe features - and their pricing - I think Sony has hurt themselves by leaving all the info the "Z-watchers" most want to know to rumor mongering and speculation. Compare this to the advance transparency.about the Lenovo X220, even the Samsung 9 - by the time you could buy one, anywhere, there were pics, vids and reviews for a month or two in advance. Couple this "secrecy" with the confusion over the "S brand" (SA, SB, etc), and I think it will take a long time an a lot of marketing and PR for the public to see the fully tricked out (and$2,500+) SA as the heir-apparent to.the VPC-Z mantle. Blown opportnity for Sony and no compensating benefit for the market - like the $500 dicount coupons Dell or HP would flood to get a poorly intro'd product into front and center. Just sayin.

 

I agree with you. I've not been that keen on the way that this was handled from the start at CES. It was a real mess up with the SA chassis but it's life and it can happen.

If i needed a computer right now i'd be a little annoyed with the wait. I'm ok with waiting a while though and may possibly hold out to the 2nd or 3rd gen, we shall see. I will get one though to replace my SZ at some point. I've also looked at the competitors and still there is nothing out there for me that is as good as the SA looks wise and specs wise. A lot of people that appreciate what Sony has to offer will keep on waiting.

 

That's only partially true. Random write speed is actually slower on the latest generation of SSDs than last year's models, due to the higher error rate with the die shrink.
The worst case random write speed (guaranteed rate IO, or GRIO) is much slower than even a slow HDD.
Of course, the manufacturers don't state the worst case speeds nor the random write speed, but the biggest numbers - sequential read and write speeds.

If what you need is either high average speed, read only, or sequential writes, sure, an SSD will run circles around HDDs.
But for certain kinds of operations, notably timing sensitive random writes, you can't beat short-stroked 15k RPM SAS HDDs.
And even without such specific requirements, a mostly-write database or a massively parallel compiling system can benefit from fast HDDs instead of SSDs.
Another notorious example is installing Flight Simulator X -- there are tens of thousands of small files, all being written with a commit, a task for which SSDs are ill suited. So the install usuall takes far longer(!) than on a HDD, at least on MLC drives. Once the install is done, though, it will run circles around any HDD for actually running the program.

Yes, SSDs is the future. But there is a market for GRIO, and heavy load random writes, so HDDs won't go away just yet.

 

^ Not to mention price and storage space. SSD's are not the only ones that get cheaper and cheaper, HDD's are following the same pattern too. If a 750 GB 7200rpm drive costs less than a 256 GB SSD, then the choice for the average consumer is simple, go for the HDD. Now only if the price point of the two are equal, then the SSD's may start to become a threat to the HDD's, as the consumer can choose for either storage space or speed for the same price.

 

Respectfully, with your Sony rig, I can't imagine your saying what you did! If you poll 100 experts and just consumers, the most important upgrade you can to for massive improvement in the performance of your computer - Arth1's exceptions noted - is to upgrade from HDD to SSD for program launching. The HDD has long been the bottleneck for speed in most notebook computers. Only now with fast SSDs are the busses becoming the gating factors on speed - both perceived and real, and that's not just boot-up speed, it's program launch speed, often program execution speed (again, Arth1's exceptions noted) and shut down speed.

Just guessing, but perhaps you have not used a standard 5400 rpm or 7200 rpm HDD lately?

 

It's true that HDD's are bottlenecks for most systems out there. That's why you see most systems coming with a WEI score of 5.9, which is the score for a 7200rpm.

My desktop uses a 7200rpm drive so I do have some experiences of HDDs (aside from my old Fujitsu computer which probably utilizes a 4200rpm since it has a drive score of 4.8). While I admit that the speed of a 7200rpm is sluggish compared to an SSD, it should suffice for most users. I installed MW2 on my laptop in just under 30 minutes while my desktop took ~an hour.

If I was given a choice between a 750 GB 7200rpm and a 256 GB SSD, I'd probably be more inclined toward the 750 GB drive if its a great deal cheaper. I'd lose some speed, but that's with the benefit of not having to check for files that occupy disk space to delete (which often leads to accidental deletions <_<).