Sony Vaio Ultrabook by Christmas

Phones are now bigger than before because the public now prefers them this way. Sure, they have new capabililties but all devices are gaining new capabilities and new classes of devices (Kindle Fire, etc.) are coming onto market. What hasn't changed is change. And anyone who thinks the current ultrabook trend (or any trend) will continue unabated is someone I would like to engage in a poker game.

 

#1 - no tweaking. I actually laugh at people who spend hours tweaking a machine to get ~10 seconds back. Seems like a poor ROI to me. My Z2 just boots damn fast? Maybe I need to time it again. If I'm lying, it's not my intention.
#2 - I don't doubt the 50%. Hell the MBA could hit 80+% if they keep the MBP 13" so outrageously priced. As for $$$, I bet nearly $1B per year on where the consumer laptop market is headed. Isn't that enough?
#3 - Not at all. I don't know why I have such a mental block on shipping that cable. I will ship it this week!!

 

As of today- No announcement.

Oh wellz

 

EDIT: @BigNerd: I didn't mean to rip off your excellent analysis (see post #150) with what I wrote below. During the time it took me to start, get distracted, then finish this post, I only now see you had already made the points I was trying to make - more succinctly than I, as ever, sigh...

That said, here is my response circa 1:30 PM today:

I am surprised that such an analysis/analogy would come from you. Small/light cell phones were great when they were primarily used to make and receive calls, but clearly as they have become true pocket computers the size of the screen must be at least 4" for most people to use them for email, web browsing, etc, and the bulk and weight of today's devices are "tolerated" as a tradeoff for performance and battery life. But I find it hard to imagine that "trends" may run in favor of fat, heavy handhelds when such measures are no longer necessary to deliver the power, speed and features we crave. I seriously doubt any cell phone purchaser, now or in the future, would prefer that their device be thick and heavy vs. thin and light.

Kinda feel the analogy really falls apart when you try to apply it to notebook computers. Again, the discussion we've been having is not about screen size, but merely about the girth and weight of the standard notebook of today. Here again, I doubt thick, heavy, power-sucking and slow data access will ever become a "new trend." Since the subject has been about the evolution of the clamshell notebook computer, I think it is fair to say that technology and consumers will both move in the direction of thinner, lighter and still more powerful. I would really be surprised if you disagreed but, hey, surprises are fun.

I do think Intel's conspicuously suspicious "ultrabook initiative" has some people, myself included, questioning just what they're up to; since when do chip makers, whose products today comprise 10% - 30% of the cost of a notebook computer, go around dictating what the final selling price of computers using their overpriced ULV chips should be??

 

Well mister, my Z2 boots in 14s, 16s with PMD attached, no tweaking and full of sony bloatware.

 

"30 to 50 new ultrabooks" are promised at CES in January, as "The Verge" writes. Sony may/must be among them.

 

And, in fact, guys, Sony had it long before MBA etc. Do you remember?

 

@lovelaptop:

No worries... it's good to know I'm not the only one who thinks thinner/lighter is good for mobile gadgets and not just a "trend".

 

Already pointed that out.

 

Beaups, as far as the bet, it doesn't count if you're betting with OPM (other peoples' money), and I don't have a billion - liquid - to match it anyway. I was thinking about a smaller wager, but subsequent statistics have already lost you the bet, and i am nothing if not a gentleman, as are you, good sir.

With so much stuff bantering back and forth, and the real life speed of the Z2 vs the MBA 2011 being at least in part at the center of controversy, I did a bit of research and post it below for all to read, comment, ignore. I never take these results too seriously, especially not single-source. In this case I used notebookcheck.net (I think quite creidble) and laptopmag.com (not so much...)

Laptopmag.com said this about the Z2:
"Thanks to the VAIO Z's SSDs, the laptop booted Windows 7 Professional in just 38 seconds, which is just a few seconds behind the Samsung Series 9 (28 seconds) but well behind the MacBook Air (15 seconds)."
Sony VAIO Z (2011) Review

Laptopmag.com said this about the MBA 13 2011:
"In everyday use, the 13-inch Air continues to feel incredibly snappy, thanks in large part to the way Apple integrates flash memory into the design. The notebook booted Mac OS X Lion in only 17 seconds, and resumed from sleep almost instantly. Just as impressive, this flash memory achieved an off-the-charts file transfer rate of 127 MBps.
Apple MacBook Air (13-inch, 2011) Review

and a surprising result on the speed of the SSDs on the Sony Z2:
"The VAIO Z's SSD completed our file transfer test, which involves copying 4.97GB of mixed-media files, in 1 minute and 42 seconds. The resulting transfer rate of 49 MBps is better than the typical hard drive (31.6 Mbps), but other ultraportables with SSDs fared better. The 13-inch MacBook Air (78.3 MBps) ( this was the 2010 version - see just above for the 2011 version of the MBA on this test) and the Samsung Series 9 (68.8 MBps) were both much faster."

notebookcheck.net on the Z2:
"In PCMark 7 the result with the Power Dock attached is no less impressive: With 3246 points in the overall score, the notebook keeps up with the level of Toshiba's current gaming powerhouse Qosmio X770 (2630QM/GTX560M). Ahead of this is for example the new MacBook Air 13 from 2011 (3561), and also the 13 inch multi talented Sony Vaio SA2Z with 3448 points (2620M/HD 6630M)."

...and just to show I'm not trying to slant the research, they also reported something I don't think the greatest Z2 enthusiasts among you could duplicate: "The exceptionally fast system not only stands out as a result of the good benchmark results, but also during daily use, such as with a boot time of only about 10 seconds (bold mine!) and especially fast program start times, does the speed advantage of the Solid State Drives become apparent.""
(both of the two above quotes from: Review Sony Vaio VPC-Z21Q9E/B Subnotebook - Notebookcheck.net Reviews )

One surprising result from notebookcheck.net was the CrystalDiskMark (confirmed by HD Tune and ATTO) speed tests on the SSD (see thumbnail). It was far slower than my Z1 Sata II bus SSDs, much less the crazy numbers posted by others. Probably was one of the Z2s with SATA II bus. Still, makes it harder to explain where they came by 10 seconds for boot time??

 

VAIO Z2 PMD boot - YouTube

I just shot the boot up sequence, the quality is horrible thanks to youtube.. but nevertheless...

 

With the sole tweak being the Fast Boot in the VAIO Control Panel, either of my 'bloatware infested' (in the words of a particularly ignorant Wired reviewer) Z2's - one a very recent replacement, the other bought a fairly short time after release - boots 2-3 seconds faster than one of my i7/256 13" Crapbook Air's - in fact, an unused spare which has a completely clean Lion install -to the logon screen. How's that for an unfair test?

However if we're talking an actual "Apples to Apples" comparison of *Windows* boot then any of my Boot Camped Air's (all 2011, all i7, all 256, both 11 and 13" flavours) takes 50+ seconds.

I have no idea where those other figures are coming from.

 

^
Seriously...unless everyone posting youtube videos are "faking" their results and there is some sort of temporal distortion that's making me perceive my laptop is booting faster than it is...

Boot up times:
17.6:
VAIO Z?????Z21??Quick Boot???? - YouTube
16s :
1. VAIO?????Z21vsZ11 - YouTube
2. Sony Vaio Z2 boot - YouTube
13.5s:
Sony - VAIO z2 2011 z - VPCZ217GW quick boot comparison - YouTube
~13s:
Sony: Boot of VAIO Z (new model) - YouTube

VAIO Z (VPCZ21AJ) vs Macbook AIR (mid 2011) where Z2 is ~2-3s faster.
?? VAIO Z (VPCZ21AJ) ? MACBOOK AIR (mid 2011)???????? - YouTube

Not all reviews provide "accurate" numbers as you don't know what methodology was used to measure boot times. But I'm sure the above videos don't require much explanation.

 

Yeah. And it's not like the Fast Boot makes a huge amount of difference - all it does essentially is not pause to display the BIOS logo (& yes, skip some other stuff but still) - if I turned it off, then it would probably be on a par with the Crapbook to the logon screen, not like >30 seconds. Those are some seriously skewed results which... well, I dunno which butt Ilovelaptops is fishing them out from. And if they're supposedly authoritative reviews perhaps we had better visit those butts en masse.


With these butts, anything they can't get their OS X -accustomed heads around, like oh I dunno, pressing a button to control the thermal profile of the machine, they either disregard or ignore. I have had it up to here with these Macsycophantic reviews, and with faux-objective reviews where these same Applezombies go all 'ooohhhh I'm being objective' for anything else but a Mac.

e.g. an entire paragraph devoted to nitpicking the screen here, as well as a photograph highlighting how the contrast changes when you look at it from the least optimal angle:
Toshiba Portege Z835 review -- Engadget

Contrast that to a Crapbook "review"/droolfest, a machine which has essentially the same viewing angles.
MacBook Air review (mid 2011) -- Engadget

 

I was referring to the fault with the reviewers than you - assuming you weren't cherry-picking - but whatever.

Did lovelaptops cite-linkage these 'reviews'?

 

It stumbles me, and please take no offence, but several other forums clocked their boot time, and made comments about it, and you ignored them clearly?..

 

As I said, I'm biased only towards truth and clarity - and against rudeness and immaturity.

I'm officially out of this otherwise interesting discussion topic. Please try not to continue to debate whether the external reviews I cited were authentic or honest. Change the subject and move on. Please[/quote]

 

[/QUOTE]

Honestly, now that I've read more, if you ask me your posts do betray an 'I'm convinced Z1 is better' agenda and that you're cherry-picking reviews that confirms your views if the reviews are for reals. The overall premise is not wholly without merit, but you're barking up the wrong trees for proving your point - and I think you know it. "Truth and clarity" it ain't.

And if the reviews are for reals, I asked for citations so that we might - if everyone's so inclined - correct some of the more egregious errors by reviewers. As I pointed out, Macsycophant reviewers in the mainstream blogosphere get all faux-objective when reviewing non-Macs, and they reel out often completely flawed figures - or things that are actually correct, but fail to mention that their beloved Crapbooks suffer from the same issues - to support their nit-picking. I think where it's all too apparent that the figures are in error, we should look to correct it.

 

I'm not sure I quite understand what the controversy is over. There have been concerns/complaints, whether justified or not, about various aspects of the Z2 ranging from non-integration of an ODD, the performance of the PMD, trackpad, structural integrity, scratching, etc.

The only two points on which the Z2 can't be reasonably challenged are screen quality and the speed of the SSD array. Irrespective of whether someone loathes, loves or ignores Apples, the speed of the Z2 SSDs are not in question.

 

^ and other than the Panasonic series, I'm not aware of anything as light with a full I7 in it.

 

Intel is considering proprietary docking Station for ultrabooks, this one resembles much the system of "double connector" on Vaio Z2.

It looks like this: a large dock connector plus a mini DisplayPort connector side by side.



Well, perhaphs we may expect something similar on future Ivy Bridge Vaio lappies. At least, Sony had already got some sort of experience with it.

 

Oh m waiting to get my hands on it...

__________________
Vaio VPCSB17GG/B Core i5-2520M, AMD Radeon™ HD 6470M (SPEED MODE) / Intel® HD Graphics 3000 (STAMINA MODE), 500 GB HDD(7200rpm), 8GB DDR3(1333) RAM , UJ-242 BD-RE, Windows 7(x64) Professional

HP Pavilion dv2-1003AX AMD Athlon Neo MV-40, 320GB HDD, 2GB DDR2 RAM, ATi Mobility Radeon 3410M, Windows 7 Home Premium

 

Didn't happen by Christas. Told you

 

Yeah, let's hope something will be seen at CES.

 

Who wants a cut-down Z anyway? Isn't that what the Sx is for?

 

Highly unlikely.

 

I believe in the beaups.

So... will Sony ever enter my favorite market segment?

 

^dunno yet. I'm skeptical on CES because I would likely have seen it already if they were going to publicly announce it in 2 weeks.

 

We got it, guys. Don't be too skeptical





Though it is like a proto, still it is clear that it is what we were waiting for.

 

Please tell me it has a 1080 screen!

 

of course, thinner bezel!

Sony VAIO ultrabook prototype shown behind glass | The Verge



Unless they've changed something, I guess no PMD (at least not with power/USB combo). Maybe not needed?

 

^ What I could say is that it has a new touchpad (compared to Z21), yet the same design, definitely a cheaper chassis, the same I/O as Z21 except of LightPeak perhaps. WWAN is probable. Nobody knows more at present...

 

given its thickness, i would say GPU has been embedded (if any).

 

May I say I'm underwhelmed by the design? I mean, this is Sony, it's supposed to be the design leader, but this looks more like the Toshiba ultrabook than the Asus Zenbook, which I would expect Sony to target to beat. The lid and sides look ok, but the keyboard deck looks positively generic Asus/Acer/Toshiba, yada, yada. Could these pictures be photoshopped hoaxes?

 

Maybe it's just a Y Series replacement. This would justify the "drawbacks".

 

This looks more like the future S series replacement.....

It's at CES inside a glass box right now...how could it be PSed?

 

Looks like the SA to me.

 

Yup looks like an S series replacement, unless it is a separate model?

I do wonder if sony will go the ultra thin route with any model like asus did with the aspire s5.

 

Only if I can second the thought.

The absurdly oversized trackpad makes it look like a satire of an Apple clone.

 

Uh... No.
..

 

The photos look like it's gonna be an S-series replacement.

 

Screw the ultrabook, gimme one of these please

SmartWatch | Android Watch - Sony Ericsson

 

Absurd? sure.

A welcome addition? Yes.

 

Really? If the usable area and buttons were software definable, I could see it. For me, the oversize pad wouldn't be a great idea, but that's based on how I work which involves much typing and little pointing. On the other hand, that's not typical of most users.

 

I like its design. It's an ultrabook profile combined with the current Vaio look, even if it's not blazing new ground in Vaio aesthetics.

 

I would prefer the larger track pad on the Z2, but anyhoo

For anyone who cares, here are my $.02 on ultrabooks and Sony.

I think Sony is reluctantly entering this segment. Intel is putting a ton of cash in advertising the platform, the most they have spent since 2003. Sony has to follow suit, but these are low margin devices and competition will be fierce. There is a place for these types of devices, but Sony will be hard pressed to push theirs as premium compared to other OEM's since price will be such a factor.

I'll be waiting for the next Z update, patiently. Well, by patient, I mean I'll only buy two or three. The first is always for teardowns

 

I think you're right about Sony being a reluctant entrant in to the Ubook market for the reasons you provide. Sony's brand identity (and profit margin) is in high-end gear. I can see where they can't ignore the market, not with Intel betting heavily that it's firebreak against ARM. Still, there's no future for them in the market.

Me, I'm looking forward to the IB Z.

 

I think the big problem with the ultrabook market is that Intel's specified price point of $999 requires more corner-cutting than Sony would like to do. The MBA 13 and the Vaio Z are two examples of how nice ultrathin laptops can be when you don't cut corners. Every single $899-$999 Ultrabook has corner-cutting issues of one sort or another, from poor touchpad drivers courtesy of a second-tier touchpad manufacturer, to a 720p screen, to no keyboard backlighting, to poor port selection.

 

I'm going to disagree a bit... the Toshiba Z83x series is very good for sub-$1000.

If Asus can fix their driver issues and add backlighting (which I'm sure they can do in their 2nd iteration like Apple did with the current MBA molds), they will also be great machines for sub-$1000.

While this "corner-cutting" demonstrates the difficulties in creating ultrathin notebooks with reasonable specs and long battery life, these 1st generation ultrabooks have opened the door for better machines at the sub-$1000 price point... something that Apple will have to address because I do think they have larger margins than their prices suggest.

Sony could indeed hit the sub-$1000 mark, but like Apple, and unlike others, they want to make higher margins.

But... notebooks like their SE does show me Sony can compete on price (one of the least inexpensive 15" Full HD notebooks at sub $1000), so I'm sure they'll be able to come up with an ultrabook that won't eat into the premium Z line. It's much easier to charge more for specs... and then use style to make you think you're getting more.