Sony Z vs. X200s - Help Me Decide

Thoughts? I'm most likely cancelling my Dell E4300 order.

Concerns

Sony Z Battery Life (X200s = 10 Hours)
Sony Z Keyboard (Versus Thinkpad standard)
Sony Z Build (Versus Thinkpad)
Sony Z Noise (Versus Thinkpad)
Sony Z Price ($600 premium for same specs)

Advantages

Sony Z Screen Quality and Size
Lower Waiting Time
Looks (immaterial)

 

I could even get a fully speced x200t for the same price as the Sony Z ($2200 on Amazon's website)

 

ThinkPad X200 Tablet - 1 Yr Depot Warranty
Edit 7448CTO $2,115.65 1 $2,115.65
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo SL9400 (1.86GHz, 6 MB L2, 1066 MHz FSB 1
Operating system: Genuine Windows Vista Business 1
Operating system language: Genuine Windows Vista Business US English 1
Display: 12.1" WideView MultiTouch + MultiView LED backlit WXGA panel 1
Total memory: 3 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM) 1
Keyboard: Keyboard US English 1
Hard Drive: 160GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm 1
System expansion slots: 3-1 Media Card Reader without Modem 1
Integrated WiFi wireless LAN adapters: Intel WiFi Link 5300 (AGN) 1
Integrated wireless WAN adapters: Integrated Wireless Wide Area Network upgradable 1
Battery: ThinkPad X200 Tablet 8 Cell Li-Ion Battery 1
Power cord: Country Pack North America with Line cord & 65W AC adapter 1
Language Pack: Language Pack US English 1


vs.


* Intel Core 2 Duo P9500 processor (2.53GHz), 6MB L2 cache
* Genuine Microsoft Windows Vista Business with SP1/XP downgrade
* 13.1" widescreen LCD with XBRITE-DuraView technology & LED backlight
* 3GB of pre-installed RAM & a roomy 320GB Serial ATA hard drive
* Biometric fingerprint scanner & hybrid graphics system

$2,253.93

vs.

ThinkPad X200 - 1 Yr Depot Warranty
Edit
Ships within 1-2 weeks**
$1,230.12



Intel Core2 Duo processor P8600 (2.40GHz, 3MB L2, 1066MHz FSB)1
Genuine Windows Vista Business12
12.1 WXGA (1280x800), 2x2 UltraConnect II antenna , WWAN, Camera
Intel GMA X4500 HD
3 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)8
TrackPoint
160GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm4
No Bluetooth
Intel WiFi Link 5300 (AGN)10
Integrated Wireless Wide Area Network upgradable65
ThinkPad X200 Series 9 cell Li-Ion Battery60
7454: 1 Year Depot Warranty - TopSeller7

 

Can't agree with that. As you probably know the Sony Z has HDMI, hybrid graphics, a faster CPU, a touchpad, a higher res screen and a DVD drive.

By the way, are you looking at X200, X200s or tablet?

 

Are there any problems with the Sony Z I should be aware of?

Do you have specifics as to battery life?

I ask because if I do get it, I'm picking up from the US, and there will be no warranty for me to use when I get back.

 

Fan: Some people have said not to hear the fan of the Z when idle. Some people do hear it. When the machine is under full load the fan can be heard well.

Battery drain issue has been reported with Z as far as I know.

With powersaving options and a dimmed screen around 5 hours on IGP with standard 6 cell battery.

 

I guess one final question is regarding start-up time. Doing a fresh install, how fast is it?

 

What's the resolution on the Sony Z550? What are the differences compared to the Z570?

 

I'm looking at all three X200, X200t and X200s.

 

If the lack of optical drive is not a dealkiller for you, I think your decision should be between the X200 and the Sony Z. The X200s is okay if you can deal with the weak CPU (The SL9400 can't compare at all to the Core 2 Duo), but then you're looking at a whole other class of ultraportables like the TZ instead.

If you don't need the dedicated graphics card for gaming or CAD purposes, then the X200 is the better bet for battery life & low noise. But the Z beats it in terms of style and screen quality (and of course, it has more features).

 

x200 has a smaller screen. it's almost as big and heavy as the Z. It doesn't have HDMI and no DVD. what if you are on the road and you need to use the DVD? you are screwed. to me the x200 is ugly and no touchpad.

the keyboard of the Z is different, it's not a cons, you get used to it. battery drain problem has been fixed and it's not really a problem. read the thread.

 

The Z550 is 1366x768, and I believe that the Z570 is the same... the Z590 is 1600x900

 

Why waste time EVEN thinking of comparing them??

The Z. DuH

 

The pre-built ones only have DDR2 memory though.

 

I would say for sure get the Z.

Main reason being when you're looking at your computer, what are you looking at? The SCREEN!! The Z screen is worth the extra money in itself. I spent too many years looking at Dell/Lenovo (blurry, dim, 'horrible') screens because I thought they were the best and there was always something (new/different) about Sony I didn't like ... for example the old SZ keyboard, I didn't want to try gettting used to it so I bought the Lenovo Z61t instead.... looking back that was a big mistake .... I'd of been FAR happier looking at the SZ screen all that time. The Lenovo screen compared to it is a joke. I just saw a Lenovo glossy screen, it's HP consumer pc quality at best, imo ... and read over in the Lenovo forum it's like they're playing a lottery or gambling over with LCD screen they'll get. If it's an LG screen they're happy, if its' not they're complaining ... with the Sony Z you only get one screen - a good one

Then you've got the Z's keyboard, design, quality feel ... seems to me Sony is doing it right now ... and Lenovo/Dell is missing the mark ... therefore don't send them your money

If money is a concern get the LG P300 - it's a GREAT machine, we have one in my office and a few Lenovo's as well ... everyone loves the LG and drools over the Sony ... the deciding factor over the two is the price. You'll be far happier in the Sony/LG line than the Lenovo, I'd bet on that!

Hope that helps ... you'll find getting away from the traditional 'corporate' names in notebooks refreshing I think

 

It's a typo, my Z570 has the DDR3 also it's my (strong) opinion you'll prefer the 1366 x 768 resolution over the 1600 x 900 if you're reading, surfing etc. The high resolution means you will need resize/zoom to be able to read all the text on webpages (imo).

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VGN-Z570N-Laptop-Processor-Business/dp/tech-data/B001CNT4UQ/ref=de_a_smtd

This is the one I'm looking at. Is it worth the premium over the Z550 if there's no difference in screen resolution?

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VGN-Z550N-Laptop-Processor-Business/dp/tech-data/B001CNT4U6/ref=de_a_smtd

I don't care for the hard drive size, and frankly... this is another question... how hard is it to swap hard drives on the Z.

Other than processor, there don't seem to be any differences.

 

I LOVE my 570!

 

Is the HD 7200 RPM or 5400 RPM?

 

5400 rpm on the 570v (cool and quiet)

 

How is boot time? I heard it's slow. Laptop Magazine says that.

 

Honestly..who cares about boot time, usually we put laptops into stand by or hibernation...very rarely my notebooks bootup from "zero".

 

Boot time is slow no matter what. I've got a completely clean install of Windows XP on a desktop with quad-core 3.0GHz CPU and 4GB of RAM, and the bootup time isn't that much faster than my laptop with dual-core 1.8GHz CPU and 1GB RAM. Either I'm doing something horribly wrong (not doubting this, btw! I can be an idiot lol) or there's not that much you can do to reduce the boot times.

Now sluggish performance due to bloatware during operation seems more of an actual issue IMO.

 

plus, if you follow the NBR Vista Tweaks instructions, you'll cut it down quite a bit... is it really that important? on my list of priorities, boot time is not high. in fact, it's not on my list of priorities...

 

What if im at school, and i want to carry my Z in my bag between classes(i have 3 classes back to back, about 3hrs 10mins) could i just put it on a mode instead of turning it off completely?

 

For me, even though I don't have the Z yet, I carry my laptop from class to lab meetings etc, and I usually just leave it on hibernate. This saves me a lot of time compared to shutting it down completely.

 

Get the Z, without a doubt. The X200 is about the same weight, yet has a smaller, lower resolution, lower quality screen, no touchpad, is much slower, and with equivalent batteries (6-cell), I think they get similar battery lives. Also the keyboard of the Z is as good if not better than Lenovo's once you get used to it according to some people's opinions (including mine).

FYI, hibernating takes no more power than "completely" shutting down because it does completely shut down - it just dumps your current RAM state to a file on the HD first so you can resume quickly. There's no reason to shut down completely unless an installation requires it, and a few other rare reasons.

In fact it uses a lot less power because booting from scratch and shutting down completely takes a lot more power than simply hibernating/resuming.

Standby is quicker because rather than saving the RAM to the HD, it shuts everything off but the RAM, allowing a instant power-on, at the expense of a little energy being used to maintain the RAM's contents.

 

Will I get burned for not having a warranty? I'm thinking of getting the Z550 off Amazon.

I don't think the P9500 is worth it over the P8600. Or are there other differences?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EHFZYE?smid=A256KD9C1BPC5J&tag=cnet-ce-20&linkCode=asn

How hard is it to find/put compatible RAM in the Z?
How hard to find/put in a new HD in the Z?

 

Exchanging the hard drive guide
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=272690&page=90

Any 2.5" drive will do.

Seagate 320GB/7200 rpm is fast and cheap.

SSD: Samsung SATAII 64GB or Intel X25M 80GB (fastest).

 

You probably posted in this forum for a purpose to get the views of Sony users but the advice you receive as you probably know may also be a bit bias.

The Sony is the better computer but it is also $1,000 dollars more expensive.

If they both suit your needs you have to deterime if whether to you the price the $1,000 is worth it for the dvd drive, hdmi and dedicated graphics.

The x4500HD graphics card is a decent integrated card and quite a big step up from integrated cards in the past.

If you don't value the dvd drive, hdmi port and the slightly better graphics card then i think that you should seriously consider the lenovo model. If you want to splash out and not save money and if you need the extra things that the Sony offers then maybe you should go for that.

I think that the Lenovo will give you warranty in your country as well as i believe that Lenovo do international warranty if so that is also a plus in my books.

I think that you probably have done this already but if not check out the Lenovo forum on this board and also the thinkpad support forum as well for views on the X200 http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=66663.

I think that the boot up times with the Z maybe a bit slow because of the Sony bloatware once you do a semi clean install or a clean install you should be fine. Lol at those who said a slow boot up time does not matter.

There have been a couple of people that live in the UK that bought the Z model from the airport in the UK when they were travelling. The normal selling price of the model they bought was the top end £1,749 and they paid around £1,319 and £1,250 at the airport (as one was claiming back their VAT). With this they will also get the 3 year extended warranty as well. Converted into dollars this is round about $2,300 which basically is the same price as the Amazon model.

 

The SL9400 (1.86ghz) is Core 2 Duo, and it's actually more than enough for most purposes. Usually if you are on the battery, you are clocking about 800-1200mhz anyway. The usual bottleneck is the HDD.

 

I just went through this and can give you some great suggestions; also by the way you should be considering the X200 vs the Vaio z and not the the "S" or the "tablet" version because of the processor difference:

Screen Size:

X200 and Vaio Z are the SAME VERTICAL HEIGHT, however the Vaio Z is 1" WIDER. This is due to the X200 having 16:10 aspect and Vaio Z has a 16:9 ratio.

Screen Quality:

Vaio Z hands down, i haven't seen the X200 and don't need too to be honest. The Vaio Z is hands down the best screen i have ever seen on ANY LAPTOP. SD quality is so much better on the laptop than my high end Panny plasma and HD (no bluray) is pretty **** close to my blu-ray equipped PS3 on my Panny plasma.

Keyboard:

I haven't typed on the X200 but i have been a longtime thinkpad user and there is no doubt in my mind that the X200 is a much better keyboard from a productivity standpoint; ESPECIALLY if you use the page up, page down, home, end buttons frequently. I really like the keyboard on the Vaio Z and it is much nicer than my girlfriend's SR even but the X200 (as well as any thinkpad) is much easier to type on. I can type much faster on a thinkpad than i can on either my girlfriend's SR or the Vaio Z.

Battery Life:

9 cell X200 vs. 6 cell Vaio Z will equate to the same overall weight for each laptop (just over 3.3lbs) and the X200 will win everytime. Also, imo 6 cell X200 vs. Vaio Z standard 6 cell battery and my hunch will be that the X200 still wins. Part of the reason i believe this is in the next section below.

Software:

X200 hands down, the thinkvantage software suite is golden. I miss it both on my girlfriend's SR and my Vaio Z. Most of it is very very useful imo.

Graphics:

Obviously the Vaio Z has the advantage with the switchable graphics but you have to ask yourself; do you really need it? The Intel 4500MHD integrated is a huge step above the older X3100 series and can decode HD material. To be honest it also renders HD matieral on my girlfriend's SR very well and to be honest it's hard to compare to my Vaio Z because the Z has a much better screen and i have no other 4500MHD machine to compare to the SR which would be more fair.

Mouse Pointers:

This is a personal preference and MOST people will save having no trackpad is "death" to the X200 which is horribly wrong imo. The trackpoint on the X200 (and any thinkpad for that matter) is a MUCH better way to control your mouse on any laptop. For a hardcore trackpad user it will take some adjustment but if you browse the lenovo forum most new X200 users have converted to the trackpoint and love it (when they first hated it). The only thin you will miss with a trackpoint is scrolling. I do find myself using the scrolling feature of the synaptics touchpad on my older T40 veruse the trackpoint. So ultimately, imo the trackpoint is superior to the Alps (not synaptics) touchpad in the Z.

Optical drive:

Obviously the Z wins here as there is NONE for the X200 without having the ultrabase.

------------------------------

That's about all that i can think of. IMO, after owning a Vaio Z i will live with some of the cons it comes with due to the screen however maybe once some X200's pop up used i might pick one up to see if i am anymore productive via my consulting excel business over the vaio z. The only way i would be is due to the easier use of the page up/down/home/end keys and not having to use the FN + to use them.

Hope that helps

 

I think your information about the weights is wrong. The Z with standard 6 cell weighs 1,49kg. The X200 with 9 cell weighs 1.63 kg / 3.58 lbs.

Z and X200 weigh the same with 6 cells. The X200 has a smaller screen, lacks an optical drive, a GPU with dedicated memory and a touchpad.

Besides that, the 6 cell already sticks out from the bottom on the X200, the 9 cell sticks out to the bottom and the back. The 6 cell on the Z does not stick out at all.

I've read people getting over 5,5 hours on the standard battery with the Z. Are you saying X200 does better?

Also, the X200 lacks a digital connection for LCDs, while the Z has HDMI. If you're using the Z connected to a 22" or 24" monitor, the HDMI and the dedicated GPU is a very nice bonus. Signal quality is better than an integrated solution.

 

Sony used to put another FN key at the empty space to the right of up arrow and above the right arrow. It was a very nice design that I rarely see in other laptops. This was last seen in Japanese SZ keyboard. I hope Sony brings it back.

 

The difference between the 9 cell X200 (3.58 lbs) and the Vaio Z (3.30 lbs) is a 1/4lb or roughly 4 oz. IMO, that is very very minimal weight increase for a 9 cell battery that will create over 9 hrs of battery life.

From the reports of the 6 cell battery on the X200 i have read in the 6.5 hr range pretty consistently. One thing that the X200 has going for it is the thinkpad battery software which lets you tweak the battery options a lot.

Once i get my CTO Z back i'll start do some battery life tests but i highly doubt under REAL usable conditions i'll be able to get 6-6.5 hrs out of the Z.

 

I can get 6 hours, but 6.5 is just NO USABLE at all, maybe off wifi? Watever, 5 hours is just excellent for a powerful performence/weight like VAIOZ, if u want battery ? go with TT,TZ... toshiba Rseries...

 

It doesn't make sense to me, if you want to compare the X200 with 9 cell battery do it to the Sony Z with 9 cell. They weigh about the same.

According to PC Pro Lenovo X200 with 6 cell real world weight is more than Sony Z with 6 cell.
" With a six-cell battery in place, the X200 tipped our scales at 1.55kg. According to Lenovo's figures this rises to 1.71kg with the nine-cell battery in place, and drops to 1.34kg with the four-cell battery."
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/228786/lenovo-thinkpad-x200.html

Laptopmag also says the X200 with 9 cell weighs 3.8 pounds = 1.72kg.
http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-x200.aspx

So the X200/6 cell weighs more than the Z/6cell, I think it's safe to assume the X200 with 9 cell isn't going to be lighter than Sony Z/9cell.

The X200 will do a bit better, it does make sense because the Z has a larger screen after all.

By the way Sony has a lot of energy and battery tweaking tools too. And for the Sony to get the best numbers you'll need a clean installed Vista.

 

get the sony z, 13 hours of battery with wi-fi

 

I just went through this decision process too and ended up with an x200s. I think the 1440x900 LED screen on the x200s is really nice. I went to the SonyStyle store yesterday and looked at the Z and TT screens and did not think they looked any better than my x200s.

I had my x200s with me at the SonyStyle store so I was able to compare the sizes. The x200s with 6-cell battery was thinner, smaller, and lighter than the Z...it's not a huge difference, but it was noticeable. The statistics I've found online for the Z vs the x200s are:

Thinkpad x200s: 11.60" x 8.30 x 0.80-1.10 @2.43lbs 4 cell @2.71lbs 6 cell
Sony Vaio Z: 12.40" x 8.30 x 1.00-1.30 @3.42lbs

Besides the smaller size/weight of the x200s, the deciding factor for me was price...I paid about $1600 for my x200s (including extra memory to bring it up to 4GB and an external dvd burner) while the Z that I wanted was over $2200.

 

Did you use any discount/coupon on your X200 purchase? And what Z model is the one you want and is that price MSRP or you have factored in all applicable discounts?

While x200 was really not a candidate for me, but I did price out an x200 with the specs close to the Z I want with all applicable discounts (and it was like 25-30% off) I could get before making a purchase decision. Guess what, it was still like $200 more than Z.

I think if you can really list out the run-down of the price, it will really help anyone facing similar situation more -- if nothing else, they will try to find appicable discounts to save themselves some either way they go...

 

Here's what I posted in the Lenovo forum, so I'll just quote myself:

"Lenovo builds many pre-configured models for each of their computers (often called "Top Seller" models). I don't think they sell these directly from Lenovo.com. Instead, you buy them from authorized "resellers" which are just third-party vendors most of which sell online.

The model numbers and specs are all listed in a "Personal Systems Reference" document available online. The one for ThinkPads is called the tabook and is available here. There is a separate book for ideapads called the ipbook.

To buy one of them, you first study the tabook to find a configuration that meets your needs - in my case I studied the 10 different x200s models. It takes a bit of time to learn how to read the tabook; for example, it take a while to notice that many (but not all) of the models in the tabook automatically come with a 3-year warranty. Once you find a model that you like, you look at the number called "Type-model" in the tabook (for example, the model I bought is 7466-3HU).

Once you know the model number you go to a reseller to order. To find a reseller you can look for a recommendation here in these forums or just use google shopping, live search cashback, etc. (search for the model number). Many people here seem to like ProVantage. Others recommend TheNerds. I ordered mine from CostCentral. There are many options and prices vary across resellers and even change sometimes from day-to-day for an individual vendor.

Note that most resellers list *incorrect specifications* for the models on their websites which is disconcerting. However, if you are careful to match the model number with the tabook you should get the right machine with the specs listed in the tabook.

The benefit of going through this effort is lower price. The x200s I ordered was hundreds of dollars less than an equivalent spec'ed machine would have cost at lenovo.com - this is especially true when a new model is introduced and there are no discounts available at lenovo.com. You also can typically find these in stock for immediate shipment. The disadvantage is you don't get to customize exactly the machine you want."

The only Z I considered was the 590 model with the 1600x900 screen. Those start $1900 on SonyStyle USA. With a few options like a 3-year warranty etc. and it goes over $2200 easily. Buying from a reseller would have saved sales tax but I still was unable to find any price close to the $1442 I paid for my x200s.

 

grisjuan, thanks for the post. I was hoping you can list the specs and the actual price, but at least from what you have provided it seems that you are comparing pre-discount, CTO Sony price with discounted pre-built Lenovo price. Some of the difference is inherent in the CTO -- you have mentioned that yourself that CTO in Lenovo.com will be more expensive. I think it's worth mentioning.

I have EPP discount from SonyStyle and Lenovo and it changes the price landscape quite a bit.

 

My x200s is model 74663hu so it has:

• SL9400 processor (1.86Ghz low voltage)
• 1440x900 12.1" LED backlit screen
• 160GB 7200rpm hard drive
• 2GB RAM, 1 stick with 1 slot free
• Intel 5100 wireless
• bluetooth
• modem
• 5-in-1 card reader
• fingerprint scanner
• 3-year depot warranty
• 6 cell battery (which add a bit of thickness but does not extend at the back)
• 32-bit XP Pro preinstalled with Vista Business license and DVDs
• (No webcam)
• (No wireless broadband)

I paid $1442.30 US dollars for it from CostCentral. I ordered on 10/21/08 and it was delivered on 10/25/08...no tax, free ground shipping (including Saturday delivery).

I am not an employee of Sony or Lenovo so I did not qualify for any EPP programs...this was the best deal I could find. The CTO Zs at SonyStyle were much more expensive as were the custom x200s from Lenovo.com.

A few third-party vendors like Portable One had Z590s for a bit less than SonyStyle, but still over $2200 once I added a 7200rpm hard drive and a 3-year warranty.

 

Thanks again. I think that helps a lot in helping me and other understand what makes up that price so if others are looking for a different configuration they would expect certain adjustment to the price. It is definitely harder to find Sony deals than Lenovo deals.

 

Both the Z's and the Thinkpads are well built laptops.
Given what everyone else said (similar specs and battery power), I would go with the Z if you don't mind spending a few hundred extra.