Sony Z11, 15'' MBP or Asus K42JR?

I want the Z11 so bad but im just wanting to make sure that the $2000cdn price isnt overpayment on my behalf. But seriously ever since i saw this little guy 2 nights ago its been on my mind. It literally has everything i want in a laptop.
------------
Im down to 15'' MBP, Asus K42jR or Sony Z11

I would get the 13'' MBP but C2D is aging and i dont want to buy outdated technology. Plus I want to stick an SSD in there. If it was at least an i5 in there i would get it. But the only MBP i would get if i do get one is the 15.4'.

Generally I would prefer 14'' laptop size the max because of weight and portability. But the 15'' MBP is only 5.6 so i can let that slide. But it seems every 15'' PC laptop is too big and heavy.

Im using 15.4'' now and i want to go smaller and lighter, even if its just by 15%.

Break down:

15 MBP
- i need to play around with the mac OSX on the apple site. But so far im not digging it much.
- I prefer all black laptop, coming from someone who has been using black and white combo laptops for the past 4yrs I need a change.

Total cost: $1850 + $500 for Intel X25M SSD = $2350

Asus K42JR
- 14''
- i5 530m 2.26
- 5.2lbs
- all black

Total cost: $940 + $500 for Intel X25M SSD = $1440

Sony Z11
- 13''
- i5 530m 2.26
- 3.2lbs!!!
- though not all black i still think it looks sexy enough.
- already has SSD drive built in - not 1 but 2! 128GB and 64GB. These two drives alone is worth $500!
- this guy honestly has literally everything i want in a laptop.....except the price.


Total cost: $1999
__________________

 

As an Apple person of course I'd recommend the 15" macbook pro to you BUT I am digging the sony vaio z11 as well!

Both has the same specs (with the sony vaio Z11 has 1GB vram on the 330m as to the 15" macbook pro).

I think from the price/performance I would go with the sony vaio Z11 or wait for the Vaio Z12 because of the smaller footprint with the same specs as the 15" macbook pro + awesome matte display.

I do love OSX more than windows xp/vista/7 because when you get used to using it, it increases your workflow especially with the multitouch trackpad. But if your already used to using a windows machine, it wouldnt make any difference to stick with the vaio z11.

 

I think jjahshik32 knows my opinion.
I ditched my crapbook for this beautiful z11.
3lbs, beautiful, matte screen, you couldn't really ask for more honestly.
Runs new games in native resolution from 30-40fps.

The Z is really next level.
I should add there are only a few downsides to the Z. The speakers are abysmal, forgettaboutit. Also due to the fact that it has hybrid graphics and not optimus don't expect timely driver updates as Sony is really terrible at that.

For example, I play Bad Company 2 on the laptop but runs terribly in DX10 due to clipping and tearing (not frame rates). I'm sure this could be fixed with newer drivers but I run it in DX9 instead and it runs perfectly.

I have had computers for decades and my last 2 laptops have been macbook pros and I haven't been more happy with this laptop.

The screen is really a beautiful sight.

 

I would say go for the Z11, but do consider the HP envy 14.

The MBP would have been nice, but the 13" is not competitive and the 15" MBP is too big.

 

I was just about to add that the 13" macbook pro is heavy enough, the 15" will be too heavy. This computer is like a feather.

As an aside, I'm not simply being a sony fanboy, I have had both a Macbook and a Sony and I think the Sony product is better for many reasons. I also think Windows 7 is now as good or better than OSX and i used OSX since it came out. There is probably nothing wrong with the Asus as I hear they make very good products however I would not get a 14" 5lb laptop when the Z is available for not a huge price difference (incl. the SSD upgrade).

 

If you can afford it the Vaio Z for sure. I'd choose that if I had the money. But instead going for the Envy 14. Best compromise for the price IMHO.

 

Yes, do get the Z11/Z12 (essentially identical), as it has created an entirely new superclass of subnotebooks (subnotebook as desktop replacement).

2 words of caution accompany this recommendation:

1. Do an image-based backup of the computer weekly. MLC SSD's aren't quite as reliable (yet) as the old magnetic HDD, and this will help safeguard valuable data. RAID0, while making large file access almost too fast (especially if you're trying to read helpful hints while a game loads), slightly increases the risk of lost data.
2. Make sure you get all the storage space you need when you order it. The SSDs in the Z11 are custom drives built exclusively for Sony by Samsung (in order to get them to fit into the 13" shell.. They cannot, therefore, be upgraded, maintained or swapped by the user (without voiding the warranty). Of course, there are external storage options, but I would discourage you from considering anything less than 192GB.

 

Yeah I got 192 myself...why do you say they aren't reliable. THere is a very long thread about the reliability of our SSDs with very encouraging results. That being said I always back up my user directory.

 

SSD's are very reliable. As much as an HDD if not moreso. RAID 0 is a risk though. Lose one drive lose everything on both of them. However, in this case, since it sounds like the SSD's are double sided on the same PCB you really eliminate that risk, well, you lose one you lose everything anyways.

 

ok thanks for the awesome insight bros. So you think the Z11 is much better than the 15'' MBP?

Im a graphic designer, hopefully 13'' wont be too small.

And the Z12 comes out next week do you think the z11 will be dropping in price? how long has it been out for?

 

Someone can correct me if i'm wrong but when the Z12 comes out they will no longer sell the Z11 they will just clear existing stock. I am assuming they don't have much stock as I don't believe the CTO's are available right away.

I was worried about the size of the screen but @ 1600x900 (and @ 1920x1080) you won't have any problems with real estate.

You won't be disappointed.

 

I don't care about it being Raid0 i just think of it in terms as an HDD in that my HDD's were usually 200GB+ and if it failed I lost it all regardless. Its not like I'm going to have 64GBx3 partitions. THats a pain in the .

I just perform routine backups and don't worry about it .

 

i'm was almost sure the z11 is all black as long as you add the premium carbon fiber option

could someone confirm this for me?

 

^Yes unless you get the silver Z

 

Ok thanks bro. What im wondering though is if the z11 will be clearing out at lower price. Im guessing yes since the z12 will take over. If this is the case then im willing to wait a bit longer.

I also heard the z11 SSDs cant be removed and upgraded, is this true? another member on here mentioned it.

And since you have owned both z11 and MBP. How is the build quality on the z11 compared to MBP? Is it as good? I know its hard to compare a plastic laptop to a metal one. Is carbon fibre metal?

And does the keyboard have any flex like the CW or EB series?

 

It is correct that the Z11 SSDs cannot be removed or upgraded. They are a custom size, so you can't just plop an intel drive (for example) in its place. You could remove the optical drive though and install an HDD or SSD in the bay. But then of course you lose the optical drive...

The preconfigured Z11s might sell for a discount once the Z12 is out, but I don't see any preconfigured Z11s available at SonyStyle USA anymore. Only one Z12 preconfigured option available now. And I agree that you probably won't be able to CTO a Z11 once the Z12 arrives as a CTO product next week. If you're looking to pick up a Z11, you might check out other merchants who are clearing out their stock of Z11s to make room for Z12s.

 

Why in the world would Sony make the SDDs not removable? Wow that very well could be a deal breaker to me. So if one fails, then you cant do squat about it? And the only way to upgrade is by taking out the opt. drive? What the hell Sony? To me this right here makes it a no go for paying 2k CDN for this laptop.

I know of only one retailer here locally that sells Z11. If they clear them out starting next week for $1200cdn or less ill consider it. But the hard drive thing I dont understand.

Looks like its down to MBP or Asus now. Im very thankful i found out about the stationary HDs cause that has to be the absolute worst decision ive ever seen in a laptop.

 

considering i just got my new Z

and it plays COD MW 2 at 1300-900 on high, its AWESOME!

 

Don't get me wrong...though I just purchased the Sony Z, thanks to my experience I am not exactly a Sony fan. But I don't think they were trying to screw anyone with the SSD decision. The SSD is custom made, because other drives simply won't fit in the chassis. The Z is unique because of its tremendous power but very small size, and the size element limits you somewhat on upgrade options. If your drive breaks, yes it can be removed and replaced, but only with the same Samsung SSD. If you buy a warranty Sony will do that for you (but that could easily be its own horror story).

Also, you might pay attention to online vendors too to see about clearance sales for the Z11. A couple weeks ago the Microsoft store was selling the Z11 for around $1200 or $1300. That's a good buy.

 

Hmm so you can replace the SSD but it has to be a Samsung? What if you put in say a Intel X25 in? I mean their both 2.5'' drives, so it should fit and work no?

I was planning on upgrading to bigger capacity SSD as the prices drop, but now that i know the Z11 has to have that very same drive is a deal breaker to me. What if the drive dies in say 10months and the drive is no longer available from Samsung?

 

If one fails, you get it fixed. Being targeted at executives, I would venture that 90% + of the users who get a Z have no desire or skill to ever crack the chassis open, and if anything failed they would send it to Sony for repair. Remember, the folks on this site are primarily power users and tweakers and not representative of who Sony is targeting with this machine.

Not to mention, I haven't heard of a single SSD failure yet in a Z.

 

The Samsung drive in the Z is not 2.5". It's smaller--like I mentioned, custom made for the small Sony Z. So no, you can't swap them. Scroll through here and you'll see the difference: Google Translate

If it dies after 10 months (unlikely), then you'll have to get a replacement Samsung drive from Sony. Or purchase the warranty and they'll take care of it. I don't think you need to be overly concerned about the SSD, but if you are, then probably good for your piece of mind to steer clear of the Z.

 

The build quality on the z11 is really nice but probably not as good as the unibody macbook pros. I say this because the palm rest is plastic and also under the computer (no big deal) is plastic too. My macbook pro was not a unibody so I cant' really comment on the new ones but my santa rosa mbp's case came apart 2 times. It lifted up from the bottom. In my experience apple's computers are just as bad quality as anyone elses.

As for flex ,there isn't any .

 

Sorry if the words I chose painted an unintended picture. I didn't actually say the weren't reliable; I said they weren't quite as reliable as current HDDs. This is why MLC SSD's come packed with more cells than the advertised number (so a 192GB drive would actually have 192.5GB) so that the drive can maintain the advertised capacity. In a way, they have a workaround to the admittedly minor issue they can have with individual cells failing.

Obviously I wasn't "frozen with fear" as is were by this very minor issue, but when buying and spending that kind of money it's always best to be aware of every possible issue and make a decision based upon full disclosure.

That said, I would never ever even consider not doing regular backups on any computer I use, regardless of the storage medium it uses.

 

Whoa~ I didnt know that the SSD was non removable?!?

I always thought the Z11 had an SATA-II regular sized SSD drive?? If not thats a HUGE deal breaker for me and probably lost my interest in the Z11..

 

Its totally proprietary. It is a 1.8" stick sandwiched with SSD chips. It isn't even enclosed in a casing.
WORST CASE SCENARIO: years down the line I can always replace the optical drive with an SSD

 

Of course it's replaceable...but only with a direct replacement from sony. Look at it this way:

The motherboard is only replaceable with a sony part
The LCD is only replaceable with a sony part.

In fact, every component but the ram and odd are only replaceable with sony parts. Pretty much ALL laptops are like this. The ssd's are also only sony replaceable so it's a whopping 1 additional vendor-only part. Considering it's not a spinning drive I think the chances of failure would be as low or lower than any other part in the notebook.

If this is a show stopper for you, I think you probably weren't that interested in the first place.

 

And btw this is coming from someone with a MBP? You bought a notebook with a non-replaceable battery and you're shocked about a non-replaceable HDD???

 

You can drop the macbook pro off at any apple store while they replace it (I could do it if I had the replaceable battery as I've taken it apart before (just one little cover on the back lol) and it only takes like an hour or so for the apple store to get you ready on the same day. Either way with the macbook pros, you dont have to worry about the battery life diminishing as its technology along with the algorithm of charging cycle lasts a long time, basically by the time I'd want to get a new battery, I'd probably want to upgrade to a new computer anyway.

To me the HDD being replaceable (not just user easy accessible) but basically replaceable at all is a MUCH bigger issue than a battery (at least I can get the battery replaced in the same day) or use the macbook pro while its on the charger.

But the SSD drive, I've seen MLC SSD drives go bad where the writes just stops working especially non Intel variants (IMO intels the best SSD drives out there). I've already replaced the stock HDD on my macbook pro with an intel SSD and it only took a few minutes and the RAM is accessible easily as well.

That's a huge flaw imo that even the user cant replace the SSD drive? I remember on the Sony vaio TZ model I took it apart (and even made a guide on these forums for others) but the SSD drive in that machine had a different connector rather than a sata-I/II (cant remember what type of connector it was but it was small) but it was doable.

Trust me I was getting ready to just order one when the Z12 was released but now I'm not too sure. Non replacable SSD drive to me is the same thing as the HDD not being able to be replaced by the user, that really sucks.

I guess I'm just going to have to think this over while the Z12 is released to see if this is really the deal breaker for me or not. This is such a cool notebook, maybe I'm jumping to conclusions right now but I'll just have to think it through.

I mean even my $280 samsung N150's HDD can be replaced and I did by sticking in an 40GB Intel SSD in it and its wonderfully fast.

What type of SSD drives does Sony use? I noticed someone posted that it was the 1.8" version (it seems the same as the sony vaio TZ model that I had and replaced with an SSD drive).

Also can you buy the Vaio Z11/Z12 with no optical drive with an SATA-II hdd? I remember this option was available on my sony vaio TZ model.

 

^Fair point, but remember the user CAN replace the hard drive (assuming you order it from sony)...It's entirely replaceable but only with Sony/Samsung replacements. I agree with you it's less than ideal, I just don't see it as a showstopper personally. Order the model with 512GB and you won't need to worry about it for a long time

And the raid0 is a nice enough touch to ease the "sting" from them being custom.

Something else cool is if you enable advanced menu in the bios you can take them out of raid mode and have 2, 3, or 4 separate hard drives available (depending on the config you order). It's great if you use multiple OS's or prefer a separate DATA drive, etc.

 

If you order the Z11/Z12 with only the 1 SSD drive, can you install 3 more in the future? I would assume any 1.8" variant SSD drives would work? I know there is a small market out there for the 1.8" but they are available. Infact I did order a 1.8" SSD drive when I had the TZ model, I dont remember what brand I bought but I remember I ordered the TZ model without the SSD drive option with only the non optical (SATA-II HDD) model only.

 

After some long thinking thismorning the z11 is out for me. I want to upgrade the SDD to a larger size once the price/GB goes down but the fact that a reg. 2.5'' SDD cant fit in the Z11 is a deal breaker. That basically means im stuck with 129+64GB in that unit for as long as i own it.

So glad i found out about it.

 

I remember now, the 1.8" SSD drives uses the ZIF connector.

Lol, I posted this guide SO LONG AGO! But the pictures are gone now.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/162085-instructions-installing-ssd-drive-into-sony-vaio-tz.html

 

They seem to be based loosely on 1.8" board dimensions but they are totally custom. Some have started researching contacting sony parts in order to upgrade, but I don't know if there has been success there. It's really best to order the size you need up front.

 

it's actually not plastic, it's carbon fiber

to answer the original poster's question,
carbon fiber is neither plastic nor metal, it is made of carbon (what diamonds are made of), which is non-metal
after a quick google, carbon fiber is 5x stronger than steel (but much lighter) and this is why formula 1 cars use it. certain aluminum, on the other hand, "can" be stronger than some types of steel

here's an exert from wiki on carbon fiber:
" Carbon fiber (carbon fibre), alternatively graphite fiber, carbon graphite or CF, is a material consisting of extremely thin fibers about 0.005–0.010 mm in diameter and composed mostly of carbon atoms. The carbon atoms are bonded together in microscopic crystals that are more or less aligned parallel to the long axis of the fiber. The crystal alignment makes the fiber very strong for its size. Several thousand carbon fibers are twisted together to form a yarn, which may be used by itself or woven into a fabric.[1] Carbon fiber has many different weave patterns and can be combined with a plastic resin and wound or molded to form composite materials such as carbon fiber reinforced plastic (also referenced as carbon fiber) to provide a high strength-to-weight ratio material. The density of carbon fiber is also considerably lower than the density of steel, making it ideal for applications requiring low weight.[2] The properties of carbon fiber such as high tensile strength, low weight, and low thermal expansion make it very popular in aerospace, civil engineering, military, and motorsports, along with other competition sports. However, it is relatively expensive when compared to similar materials such as fiberglass or plastic."

all in all, the design of the z is in a different league than mbps

 

Even though the battery is WAY more likely to fail or greatly diminish its capacity in just over a year than the SSD is?

The SSD of the Z11 is just about as replaceable as the MBP's battery is.

 

Yes even so because once the SSD goes out, your done for. I guess you'd have to call up Sony and try to get a replacement as soon as you can but with the battery going out you can go get a new one within an hour and most likely the 2nd battery will last you 5+ more years before it goes out again.

 

What about when your cpu fails? or logic board? or lcd? Point is there are plenty of parts that can fail and need service, the Z has one more. If it was a spinning drive I'd see your concern, but being SSD not so much. Yes an SSD CAN fail...so can hundreds of other components.

 

I feel kind of stupid, I thought the metal part for the keyboard was carbon fibre duh.
Makes more sense now!

 

This gets to me about how some notebooks users think their product is less vulnerable than others. They seem to forget that most notebooks components are made by a limited range of companies and they are assembled by a limited range of companies. Every brand of notebook can have vulnerable parts; look no further than the faulty 8x00 series Nvidia chips.

SSDs are thought be more reliable than traditional hard drives. However I am willing to beat that they too would suffer if they were abused, for example if they dropped too often.

 

I wasn't pointing to your's specifically or any one make/model. Similar failures would apply to Z as well, obviously. Sorry if it came across that way.

The point I am trying to make is ALL of these are built with many parts, that if failed, are not "off the shelf replaceable". Again, the Z has one extra.

SSD's will respond no differently to physical abuse than any other component in the notebook...but certainly much much better than a spinning hdd will.

 

Sorry I conveyed that the wrong way. I am talking about ignorant users in general, which would certainly not include you. I particularly reference those certain users of... (Should be able to guess which group of fanboys I am referring to).

 

Your point is valid but cpu failure or logic board failure are two huge deal (pretty much you would need to buy a completely new notebook if your out of warranty) and in this case it seems that the SSD that only sony offers fits this bill (which imo isnt too good of a category to be in) as to a battery where even out of warranty you can get it replaced (and the notebook would still be functional without the battery while plugged into the power adapter).

I'm sure you can find a 1.8" ZIF SSD (I think mtron sells them) and it might be user replaceable if your brave enough to rip open the Vaio Z, so I'm not too concerned anymore because I have done it on a Vaio TZ model.

 

Opening the Z is the easiest thing ever honestly. Way easier than my wife's Acer and my old MBP