Sony fraud with the SZ2???

Hi

I just read a report about Dell getting sued over putting incorrect CPUs in their Laptops and just that moment I noticed that Sony does the same on the SZ2.

The entry level SZ2 models come with a T2300 at 1.66GHz. Or at least that's what they should come with according to claims by Sony and others. But as you can see when you take the CPU out the CPU is merely a T2300E model. That ones comes with the same clock but lacks Intels VT technology. And that's exactly what Dell is sued over atm.

I'm not affected by that since I put a T2500 in my SZ2 but I thought I let you know.

 

oh...


i have a 1.66...how do i know whether its an 2300E or 2300?


ANd whats the difference between the two?

 

Like I said, the E models lack a feature. They have the same clock speed and are basically identical except that one feature called Intel VirtualizationTechnology. Most may not need it but selling a T2300E as a T2300 is not correct not matter what.

Who can you see if you've an E model. Wells its printed on the CPU itself so you could look there. Or try tools like Everest or CPUID, maybe they can see that too.

 

ok....WTF...CPU-Z shows T2300E


did i get ripped off (cries foul)?


I checked the specs PDF on the basis of which i bought this laptop...no mention of any BS "E"

On the other hand CPU-Z reports my memory to be functioning @ 266mhz.........


what happened :|

 

Yes, I would be ringing sony and asking for some kind of answer, First off go the SZ customization page and save it just in case they update it to say its the E model.

 

Your memory speed is correct. 266MHz is your real clock speedd whereas 533 is your effective clock speed, since the memories are all DDR(double data rate).

If they advertised it as a T2300 and you ave a T2300E, then by all means contact Sony and do mention what happened to Dell. They might be more willing to listen.

 

Ok..


The website now says *virtualization technology not supported


Unforunately...i kept a copy of the original PDF when i purchased it....mentions NOTHING about virtualization...just T2300.


SIFFFFFFFF

 

Well as far as I know the Intel VT is mainly ment to help with multiple OS running besides each other so it's not a very important thing for most of us.

It's not that they advertise a T2500 and you get a T2300. I had that happen once very long ago where a system should have had a 486 CPU and they built in a 386. That was bad. Here it just does not feel too good if they say its a T2300 and clearly it is a T2300E. Not that it makes much difference to the user (VT will likely never be used) or to sony (cost wise) but that puts Sony in a very bad light.

The Dell situation

 

Other SZ owners pls specify your model and confirm processor

 

This is not much of a problem as many think. Quite some time after the Core Duo launch the "normal" T2300 was replaced by the T2300E. There are hardly an T2300 models out there. It's just that the marketing departement is a little slow and still advertises the CPU as a T2300 where it actually is a T2300E. Besides Dell and Sony I've seen that with Asus, Lenovo and Samsung entry level core duos. All cary the T2300E where it should be the T2300. Maybe they never thought they could be sued over this. But honestly, there's no speed difference. You don't have a slower CPU with the T2300E. It's not something like the T2050 that runs only with 533MHz FSB.

 

But it is not what they ordered, regarless of the minutia.

 

tbh its not really a problem...a feature i would probably never use.


But however, it still leaves a sour taste in one's mouth because, for principle's sake, we did get screwed out of more expensive CPU ($32 more expensive...thats enough for 5 meals at maccas )

 

Honestly I don't care much in that special case because it's not much of a downside and I replaced the CPU anyway with a T2500. I'd rather feel a little angry that a company like Sony does such a thing on a premium product like the SZ is. After all this is not a sub $1000 device, this baby costs $2000+ for christ sake. Doing such a thing in that segment is a bad bad idea because those customers are the ones that usually come back again and again to buy Sony products.

I must admit I'm sort of a Sony whore (LCD-TV, HDV camcorder, Cybershot digital camera, mobile phone, stereo system and now the laptop - all Sony) because I like the design and quality as well as the great ideas (like dual graphics in the SZ2). I don't think that Sony could afford to loose customers like me beause of such a stupid thing.

 

Unless you are using special vmware software, you will never use this feature.

This is the suppliers fault (Intel), not the affected companies, lenovoa, dell, Sony, etc. IF this ever gets to class-action status, they have several "outs" including the typical "not responsible for typographic errors." Additionally, you would probably have to PROVE that you suffered damages (that you were going to use virtualization, and were unable to because of deception) in order to get anything.

I don't think this is going to gain any real traction because the Dell notebook battery recall is going to overshadow this news.

-PHiZ

 

I don't think that this is an excuse. What if Posche or BMW would advertise an engine to have 350HP that in reality only has 330HP. You could argue that you would never use those 20 missing and you would never notice the difference. But you paid to have 350HP and 350HP it should have.

Besides you're not trying to convince me that Sony does not know what Intel supplies them with CPUwise??? That's quite unbelievable.

AND Sony massively advertises the SZ line to have the T2300 CPU and not the T2300E. And if they knew that they've put T2300E in where's the problem with saying it has a T2300E? There's no difference performance wise so why don't tell the truth here? I can't understand that.

I hardly think Sony can be sued over this BUT I think that you have the right to return your SZ even if it is older because you were sold a model that does not comply with the specifications it shoud have. According to european and german law you have gotten a device that you never intended to buy. You wanted to buy the SZ with T2300 in it. So even if it makes no difference the law here now entitles the buyers to return their SZ if they are affected. That's just as bad as a class action, just remember thousands of SZ models coming back for this totally stupid reason.

I won't return mine as I'm more than happy and I put a T2500 in anyway but I would have the right to do so and Sony can't do **** about it. And honestly I can very much understand if people do return theirs. This is no way to treat customers.

I can't understand why they'd risk stomething like this for something this unimportant???

 

RIght click My Computer -> Properties says T2600 / 2.16Mhz. How do I check if its got virtualizatrion tech or not, because this will affect me. I was about to nuke everything and install MacOSx/WXP/FC5/Slackware using VM. Other people at work have done it and it looks rather slick.

 

If Intel *replaced* the T2300 with the T2300E on the supply side, then I think it's an acceptable excuse. I guess if you call Sony to complain their techs will just tell you there's no SZ with T2300, only with T2300E.

 

Also remember that somewhere, there is a fine print that says "Specifications subject to change without notice" or something like that...

So Sony wins even if you sue them?

 

Hope my SZ220 would have the right T2400

 

To make one thing clear!!! The only Core Duo affected is the T2300 and its E twin. There is no T2400E, T2500E or T2600E. A model without intel VT only exists at the low end of the Core Duos. So if you have a 1.83, 2 or 2.16Ghz machine you will have VT. Only those with 1.66 may have an E model.

So if there is no real T2300 model anymore it is an excuse to advertise the SZ as such? Common, that's a prime case for false advertisement. And it's Sony responsibility to verify the chips are correct. I mean, you can't really argue that you can advertise more features than you deliver because nobody can deliver them anyway.

And as I already said, maybe you won't be able to sue Sony over that. But users affected by that are now legally in a position to return their SZ and get their money back even if its older because the real specs do now match the ones that you wanted to buy and were assured you're actually buying.

You may have a look at the case the SZ came in, it usually states the CPU model. If it shows T2300 than you've the law on your side.

 

Hmm... I have an SZ1M/B with a 1.66ghz T2300. In the name field, CPU-Z shows just "Intel Core Duo T2300", in the Model field however, it says "E". I'm somewhat confused, but I assume that's what you get when you don't have a T2300E, right?

And is there some way to check if my CPU supports VT?

Also, I would really like to know why my two cores run with completely different voltages (0.95 and 1.2V respectively) with no system load whatsoever.

 

Well, in my name field it says "Intel Core Duo T2300E", so i think yours is fine.


Btw, yes they do say specs are subject to change without notice. But thats only before purchase. But i am almost completely certain that in no country can a company advertise certain specs and change it AFTER your purchase and give u a watered down product.

I think i will contact the dealer and ask "hey dude...explain this for me..." and see how it goes from there

 

this thread is now featured on engadget

Here

 

......


that was quick

 

apologies, i did not look first - had someone already posted that information?

 

nono, i was just suprised that news spread so fast.

 

Well folks, here's the kicker. EVEN if you have a T2300, and not the lower grade 'E', you still won't get virtualization. It's an option in the bios, which Sony does not allow access to. I have a T2400, 1.83ghz, it SUPPORTS Intel VT, but Sony turns it off and doesn't give you the option to turn it on....

Sony, if you listening, open up some bios options, please?

 

How do you know that? I never saw that option in a bios at all.

 

Have you ever looked in the bios of a computer with a processor that supported VT before? It also possible that other brands disable the option, but turn it on instead of off by default.

download a demo of the parallels VM software. it uses VT if its available. It also give a message if you have VT, but it is disabled...

 

It's SONY's fualt period!!! If Intel changed their supply/model, I'm sure that they notified Sony. Problem is that Sony never notified the consumer. As long as you notify the consumer, then you are ok. Like buying a 250GB HD and only getting 247GB, they state that 1MB =1000KB and that different format will give you differnt size.

Doesn't matter if you use the feature or not, you paid for it. You paid for a 8ms LCD panel, would you be happy with a 9ms panel?

 

I completely agree. I was just pointing out the irony. Anybody that got a T2300E deserves a T2300 proper. I was also hoping to bring attention to Sony having VT disabled on the SZ's in hopes of finding a fix of some sort.

 

i have a sz230 and it has the T2300 not the T2300E

 

>.<

thats weird

because i have the SZ-23.......is that the asia pacific equivalent of the 230?

 

Shouldn't the SZ230 have a T2400 anway?

 

not for me....

 

i got my sz230 in singapore... and yes it is the same as the sz-23

it has the T2300 and not the T2400

 

If true, this is a disaster!!

 

what do u mean?

 

I mean SZ230P/B configured with T2400 CoreDuo.

 

er12345,

If you bought your Vaio in Asia and the model is the SZ23, you've gotten yourself the T2300E chip.

The website isn't very clear about it but while they list the chip as T2300, there is a fine print stating that the SZ23 doesn't support virtualisation technology.

It's easy for everyone to jump at this but the virtualisation technology is really quite a joke. (Do you intend to run a virtual machine with your notebook?) If they were selling the SZ28 with the T2500E (We know there isn't one) and actually slashed the price by at least 200 bucks, I'd be fighting for the T2500E anytime.

The SZ23 is so darned cheap compared to any other SZ offerings out there and they only took out the most useless feature.

It is still my favoured product of recommendation to my friends.

(I was fully aware of the lack of virtualisation. I only didn't know that the chip was called T2300E)

 

Hmm, i remember clarifying this issue earlier.


FACT: the website's specs now have fineprint saying VT is not supported

also FACT: when i preordered it 2.5 months ago there was NO such fine print. It says T2300, fullstop. I also have a PDF copy of those specs with me.

 

Hey.
Got same sh*t with my Sony Vaio FE-21M (bought in Europe) - T2300E instead of declared T2300.

 

The virtualization technology is more or less worthless unless you're a Xen fan and want to run an unmodified guest OS (in which case you'd be much better off using VMware), or if you for some reason want to use Parallels instead of VMware. VMware has explicitly stated that they could not optimize their product with VT to run 32-bit code at a faster speed than their existing software-only implementation.

 

Hi er12345,

I can empathise with your frustration.

Same thing happened to me when I bought my HDTV with the sticker still claiming it is HDCP capable.

It's really a "Too good to be true" deal.

Anyway, what I'm really trying to point out isn't that you deserved to be cheated by the marketing. The real point is that I believe you didn't lose out much. VT, like many others have said, is pretty useless to 99.99% of the people out there and you have paid quite a bit less for the SZ23 although it is wrongly advertised. (Trust me, the marketing jerks know NOTHING about what they are selling, it wasn't intentional to deceive you.)

When I bought my LCD TV with the HDCP capable brochure, the set came without that capability. That means that I will not be able to watch Blu Ray stuff on the set. Now this loss is really very very restrictive.

Same goes for my Logitech V400 which turned out to be the biggest lemon of a mouse I bought. (I escalated this issue all the way to Logitech here.)

Hope you find solace with me sharing the far worse problems I have experienced.

 

Did you attempt to resolve your HDCP issue with the retailer?

 

I have an SZ220 and it just says T2400 @ 1.83GHz

 

To keep it short and not to diverge from the original point of this post by too much, the answer is "No".

I called them...they pointed out to the almight disclaimer which protects them. ("Specs can be changed with no notice" yadda yadda)

Same thing happened to the entire world of graphics enthusiasts who paid a limb for the high end ATI and NVidia cards claiming HDCP but wound up without one.

 

Hi bob,

Your model number is different.

(er12345 is referring to the models from Singapore?)

 

whwtan: phone them up again and ask whether specs can be changed AFTER an order. I.e. bait and switch.


That is illegal in any western legal system

 

Hi er12345,

The worst you could possibly do to them over here is to complain to the Consumer Association. (CASE)

I reckon the worst one is the fiasco over HDCP...
One can easily live without Virtualisation technology...but when you spend over a 1000 for a card thinking that you've future proofed yourself with HDCP only to find out that it ain't there.

*ouch*