Sony's Ultrabook coming in April

what may be the price of Sony's Ultrabook?

 

I just checked the photos of the T11 and now I see why everyone is complaining about the bezel. Unbelievable.

Though, maybe part of the disappointment is again caused by Sony's naming (like in the case of the Z2). I would have expected this laptop to be called Y (or maybe M or something else). It is nothing like the previous T series.

 

I don't really see the problem. e.g. the 11-inch Bendybook Air's bezel is thicker, especially on the sides.

 

This just somehow looks wrong to me:

 

It can be hard to convert pricing in different markets by applying currency conversion rates, but with the Euro's premium over the dollar pretty much consumed by the VAT, you can approximate E899 (sorry, lazy on the currency sign) to be $899 US since the Euro VAT approximates the difference in currency values. That does not make this a price leader, especially when all the 1st gen UBs - that are lighter and have better specs than the T - will be getting dumped at $649 - $799 to make way for the next iterations of their UBs. The new T's design, performance, weight and pricing will be DOA at least in the USA market. I think the Sony brand does have more cachet (thanks for the spelling correction, Louche ) in Europe so perhaps even a highly flawed T non-ultrabook will get some takers, especially if the metal body and chassis look classy and strong. But in the US, they would really be doing themselves a favor by not even selling this in the US, except with upgrades to cpu, screen, SSD and a backlit keyboard. At cost, these upgrades would add easily $150 to Sony's bill of materials, so it would have to retail for $1,050 in the U.S. DOA.

 

This S/B T will never hit retail shelves. And that photo, if not edited, makes it look worse than it is. It's not the best looking ultrabook, but will be priced pretty competitively for a Sony.

 

Hahaha. A picture really is worth a thousand words! +1

 

WOW

Exact Design Copy of the Acer TimelineX

 

Yeah, but doesn't Acer offer these with SV cpus and discrete GPUs? If not this, than their 15" "Ultrabook, which is a dark horse favorite as the gamer's UB - because gamers don't require more than 1366X768 and that appears to be its only flaw - check out laptopmag.com's review.

 

Heck, my Panasonic J10 (10.1") looks better than that. And kicks its tail in specs. They should have done a true X505 successor as an ultrabook.

Oh, and I prefer 1366x768 - I don't like bigger resolution but for Windows 8, it's going to be an issue.

 

would make sense, unless the cheaper models will feature SB and the more expensive will come with ivy. Remains to be seen what sony decides.

 

So much bezel...

 

man, thats really ugly.

It's not that sony never built 11" subnotebooks before.

 

ugly piece of work right there , i've been complaining about the advent of thickening bezels and its for good reason, now this is just going way over. So glad i sourced a great condition TZ and Z1 off ebay, thin thin borders! You know what's the one thing that stood out about the vaios? They make awesome barrel designed laptops, that was the selling point, now they took that out and substituted barrels with mainstream hinges...they just don't make 'em like the used to.

 

Hmmm. I didn't see that one. OK, that's slightly worse than the Bendybook, but the side, top are about the same.

HOWEVER if that's for real then it also features a reduced pitch keyboard.

All aboard the fail boat?

 

Nice find...

 

Do keep in mind that the old 11" ultraportables were really expensive and ultrabooks are supposed to be below 1000 euro/dollar. You cant expect a carbon 11" or 13" with superb design and hardware components like the old TX for those prices.

 

Samsung seem to mange thin bezels on their Samsung Series 9 900X3B ultrabook:

 

I'm in total agreement. They probably could've gotten a 13" in there and it wouldn've been a very interesting machine. Those are some flaws I see in the current S and Z, wide bezels, like 2-3cm on each side. They slimmed down the T (13" only) a little, by about 0.5cm, but compared to the Series 9 or Dell XPS13 they are all VERY thick and a waste of space. Seems like an easy thing to do as well, as the panel is relatively independent from the other half. But not cost effective I guess

 

Yes, at twice the price...

 

On the bezel for the 11"... I don't think it's because they couldn't make a thin bezels, it's the form factor so that the keyboard is still close to standard size.

 

Thin bezels at a reasonable price? It can be done. See the Dell XPS 13.

Dell XPS 13 hands-on - Engadget Galleries

There's no excuses for bezels that big on an 11" machine. They're not that big on the 13" Vaio ultrabook, for example.

 

Exactly, I just wish you could get a higher res panel in the Dell, it would be a serious contender then. I'm sure Sony just bought up a stock of the cheapest 11" panels they could find and slapped them on a base they built with standard components, rather than do any actual design engineering on either piece. It's a shame, a 1.5lb 11" laptop with an ivy bridge processor and thin bezels would be pretty nifty. Maybe next year.

 

I keep hearing variants of that remark from the Bezel Brigade. What I don't hear is an explanation of where space is being wasted, i.e., not used or used in an inefficient manner. Instead, what I do hear is along the lines of that they "should" be able to reduce the size or point to a different brand and say, well, they did it, without mentioning the trade-offs.

Bottom line, if you think the designer is wasting space, show how it's wasted rather than just saying that it could be done better.

 

Webhallen claims it will get 3 T13 configs 26/5. One SB and 2 IB. I guess you can make out most of the info even if it's in Swedish. The prices are in SEK, € are roughly 1/10 of that.



WEBHALLEN.com - Sony Vaio SVT1311M1ES.EC1 - Core i3-2367M / 4GB / 320GB + 32 GB SSD / Intel HD / 13,3" / Win 7

WEBHALLEN.com - Sony Vaio SVT1311V2ES.EC1 - Core i5-3317U / 4GB / 320 GB / Intel HD / 13,3" / Win 7

WEBHALLEN.com - Sony Vaio SVT1311X9ES.EC1 - Core i5-3317U / 4GB / 128 GB SSD / Intel HD / 13,3" / Win 7


Edit: I also saw a German video on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqOdmsOCa40 . You get a better feel for the size when you see it "live".

 

will the ivy bridge cpus be available by then? I thought early june was the earliest time frame.

 

Yes, it's strange. The cheapest config has SB and 320HDD+32SSD and the mid has IB and only 320HDD. There would be no reason it would cost €50 more if it had an SB CPU and lacking the SSD.

I guess the most plausible explanation is that they won't be able to ship by 26/5.

 

The European (well at least the Dutch) Sony online store has been updated with the new E 14 and T series now!

T11 (starting at € 649) and T13 (starting at € 699) are available now and configurable. Seem to be the lowest MSRP's for ultrabooks right now in Europe, so that explains the low specs at least, smart move by Sony imo if they also still keep the S / Z series (which they will I'm sure). Plus they'll no doubt bump the specs up with IB coming soon.

Both only in silver now, both only with the i3-2367M, 1.4GHz for now. Up to 8 GB RAM, no screen or GPU upgrades.

Both also offering 320 / 500 GB HDD + 32 GB SSD hybrid or 128 / 256 / 512 GB SSD options.

E 14 is also priced very reasonably. If it were below 2 Kgs I'd probably order it, but I'll wait what the new S series will have to offer.

 

I think the Bezel Brigade have one issue - they're not comparing like for like. The 11" Bendybook and UX21 both have, comparatively speaking, fairly prominent bezels - though not as much as the T11. Against think-bezelled 13-inchers it looks bad, but compare it against the 11" and it doesn't look too bad, especially if they've expended some effort into extra durability (if it isn't with that weight and materials choices, well it's a lost cause for Sony).

What *is* odd though is if you compare the screen size vs keyboard size on the T11, with the aforementioned Asus or crApple. It appears that the Sony keyboard is narrower than both. That is not a good sign.

 

​

Looks like it also appeared on the german sony site as well, I wonder if it will ever ship in black.

T Serie : VAIO & weitere Computerprodukte : Models : Sony

 

Looking at the product pages, I noticed that the keyboard layout of the T11 is similar to the one of the Z2. Only the T13 has the arrow keys separated.

Also, the dimensions of the T11 and T13 are very similar. The only notable difference is the width: the T11 is 2.6 cm/1 inch narrower than the T13. Height is exactly the same and depth is also almost identical (1.5 mm/0.06 inch difference).

 

Passing observation: We Sony Forum dwellers are so hard up for something interesting to talk about (like, oh, an exciting new product, something like that) that we drone on about the wide load bezel of a new notebook that is so pitifully designed that no one on this thread would be caught dead owning one of these C+ (being kind) efforts in a year when everyone (else) is bringing out notebooks that are impossibly thin, light and fast for not much more $ than this 10th grade science project of a DOA product, that doesn't even qualify to be called an "ultrabook." Pathetic. (Sony, of course, not us )

My proposal: Sony be damned, if there are no future Vaios worth discussing, much less owning, let's try to keep this best forum on NBR - or anywhere that I have seen - going as a "Vaio Alumnae Forum," where the discerning few devotees of the once-great Vaio computers share ideas, stories,prognostications, bad puns, etc, and help each other get the most from whatever gear they are using. Seems like admission should be restricted to former Z owners, or owners of "classic" Vaios of old. Special privileges grandfathered for current F, SA and SE owners, who would have graduated to Zs if they hadn't become the laughing stock of the industry.

Life would be just a little duller without the excitement of anticipating the latest banter (or, for the elitists among us, raconteur) about tech gear, trends, informal reviews, and pushing the envelopes of what the manufacturers had in mind and other intelligently humorous comments. Only other prerequisite: if Sony continues to go downhill in their product designs, reverence for "the good old days" must be shown by flying Vaio sleeves at half mast.

 

What I don't get is this: Sony struck upon some really unique, stylish, forward-thinking design with the Tablet S. Why hasn't that hit their laptops? Why are they just doing the "simple straight lines" aesthetic for their laptops instead of something equally daring?

 

Schizophrenic management, makes people afraid of losing their jobs, don't take risks.

 

I don't know, if priced cheap enough and I could swap out the hdd for a sdd I bought, plus it came in black, I might be willing to pick this up to have a lighter notebook when I need to travel since the FW is not very travel friendly.

Unfortunately the T is only available in silver in poland so this is not encouraging.

 

i just watched the german video and i have to say i like it alot. if the screen quality is decent the 13 inch version might be a winner. The price is very attractive and the Z2 design is great.

 

^I agree. It could be a good match for my kids which are due for an upgrade from an Eee and my old TX1. My only concern is if the 32GB SSD will be enough for a Win7 system partition. I have 60GB for mine and use 50 of it (including 10GB for swap and hibernate. A clean install will of course fit, but it tends to grow with time. And it seems it's a hybrid drive with both a HDD and a SSD, so you can't just change the SSD.

And of course it would be great with some more colours.

 

Yeah, I think you're right. The company is in turmoil, just fired 30000 people, probably some creative ones too.
In response to the comment on an argument for/against bezels, I would just say that in a straight comparison I can't see any advantage of the sony over the dell xps 13 (which has a very nice thin bezel screen and is smaller and lighter). All else being equal, I doubt the price difference between the two will be substantial. So why, as the consumer, should I say what Sony has done is fine?
The advantage of a thin bezel, is essentially more real estate for the package. The disadvantage is designing a screen that has some durability, which is probably more difficult with thin bezels. Toshiba, dell and samsung have all sought new strategies that have been effective in their own way. It seems Sony hasn't bothered to do much of anything with the T, S or Z series. Like it or not, in two years, you'll will not see many thick bezel screens (on laptops or phones). Long live the bezel brigade!

 

The hybrid hard drive will not be treated as two separate drives. The SSD portion will be used to cache heavily accessed files (e.g. windows) in a way that is seamless to the user. Essentially, in windows you would only see the platter portion. Perhaps you can macgruber it into two separate partitions, but I doubt you'd see any benefit. Plus, you'd be a little tight on space as you say. My ~1yr old system 64gb SSD is about 21GB right now, but I don't install games or other large software (just MS Office). I have hibernation disabled and set my page to 400mb. If you haven't tried this, it's a great upgrade.

 

The Z design language is more efficient in terms of laptop use. Given the choice of the 2 I'd definitely lean towards Zesque.

 

Ah, ok. The plus sign in 320HDD + 32SSD is a little misleading then I guess.

What a defrag nightmare! To defrag or not defrag? I hope there are defraggers that handle such drives.

 

Two thoughts:

1) No matter how hard you try to think the new T "pretty" or even viable, how do you possibly see it as an alternative to low cost UBs such as the HP Folio? For $749 you get a 128GB SSD, backlit keyboard, very good audio (per reviews) and at worst the same crappy 768p screen as the T has? The Sony loyalty exhibited on this thread is impressive: they have not give you a reason to stick by your brand.

2) Re: wide bezels. Seems to me it's less a question of how wide the bezel is than how the added real estate on the keyboard deck is used. Since lid and base are the same size, a 13" screen with wide bezel will by definition have a larger deck for the keyboard, touchpad and other special function keys. If the space is squandered by having wide margins around the sides and top and bottom of the keyboard, the wide bezels just make for a larger - and likely heavier - base of the laptop, and just exacerbate its unattractiveness. If, however, the added real estate on the deck allows for more function keys that don't require Fn + do activate - say, for volume, brightness, etc - and if it allows for a taller - and functional - touchpad, it may be a fair tradeoff for the ugly fat frame around the screen. Or, they could do what Dell did with the XPS 13 and HP did with the Envy Spectre, and use the extra space to move up a notch on screen size.

Methinks that the T is just a lazy design and the buyer gets a smaller screen than would fit, an ugly bezel and no added functionality from the keyboard.

 

I'm pretty sure windows will only defrag the hard drive portion, I think all it "sees" is the hard disk partition. When a file is queried, the hybrid drive will source it from cache if possible, otherwise from the hard drive. If a file is accessed repeatedly then the drive "learns" to cache it. Anyway, that's my understanding of it. In theory it should work very well, and 32GB is plenty big to cache windows, all your programs and some files too.

 

Just compared the versions I can buy in Sweden. A 13" HP Folio costs SEK 8790, which is SEK 31 more than a T13 with a 128GB SSD. I just saw two different pics of the HP and sure, the bezels are thinner than the T, but the screen real estate actually looks smaller! There are black areas around the whole video area, especially above and below. Pics here:

The HP Folio ultrabook (photos) - CNET Reviews

On the T, the video goes all the way to the bezel border as seen in the German youtube video review I posted earlier. So it seems the T uses that area for stability as opposed to the HP which doesn't use it at all.

That leaves the backlit keyboard, but I simply can't stand HP keyboards. I bought a HP for my mother a year ago and I simply can't type on it. Probably a personal preference, but it definitely is a downer for me. Apart from that, I think the T looks way better than the Folio.

I'm more inclined to thinking Sony is trying to cover a broader spectrum of the market. Sure, they may be using their junior designers for low end laptops, but as long as they're still focusing their best people on the high-end Z line, I won't complain. I guess we'll see in a month or two.

 

Yeah, I don't think they tried too hard. Probably to keep R&D and production costs low. I'm okay with a larger footprint to accommodate usable input, to a point. But why not get a larger screen on there as well, since it's quite clear it is possible in the machines you sight and others. In fairness, the 13" T's bezels are almost thin enough for me, thinner than the S and Z in fact (my quibble is with the 11"). I'd actually be fairly interested, but 3.5lbs seems heavy compared to the 2.5lbs alternatives, a backlit keyboard should be standard as well. For example, besides branding, what does the T have that the Toshiba Z830 doesn't?

 

Though the XPS 13's screen is behind a layer of gorilla glass, so I suspect it's perfectly well protected, at least compared to other ultrabooks (nobody's claiming it's a "ruggedized" laptop).

 

Isn't one problem with the gorilla glass on the XPS reflectivity of the screen? Or is there some kind of anti glare coating?

 

notebookjournal.de was able to test a sample of the Ultrabook.

Display offers only about 165cd/m² and just a lousy contrast of 143:1.

Nice concept killed by a crappy display.

 

It seems that there will be an Ivy Bridge version for the Vaio T:

First Hands-On With the Sony Vaio Ultrabooks Surface. Ivy Bridge Confirmed. Ultrabook News and the Ultrabook Database

Sony Site Reveals Ivy Bridge Vaio T Series Ultrabook Ultrabook News and the Ultrabook Database

 

Right, there are solutions. The Series 9 is rigid aluminum and Toshiba took the opposite approach of designing a screen with some allowable flex. I actually think dell did a particularly nice job. If they allowed you to get 1600x900 resolution, I'd probably be sold. As for the T, I just don't see it competiting all that well. I think the weight is the big issue for me, but if it has outstanding battery life and a higher res screen and backlight keyboard upgrade, I might reconsider. But the 11" is a no go for me, it does only have one competitor (ASUS) at this point.