Sonystyle pushing sz over tz

I went to sonystyle today to check out the tz models in person. Three of the employees told me that for what I want - running multiple office programs at once, cutting and pasting into powerpoint, etc. that the tz would be irritatingly slow. They strongly recommended the sz. I was floored. I went in with my mind up to order a tz91 from dynamism on Monday or possibly a tz195. They also told me that sony is coming out with a 12" laptop next summer. I really wanted something small and portable but now I am thinking that they are right...I should wait on the tz. They also told me that they have a lot of customers coming back to complain about the slowness of the tz and one guy even came back and bought a sz. Argh! I wish they let you take a computer home for the day.

 

Well the speed is not that bad it is just the sony applications that come with the thing.

 

They just might have a backlog of SZ's to get rid of before an upcoming refresh. Business is business and they need to move inventory.

 

You have to keep in mind that many users don't know how to uninstall bloatware, and all the notebooks in the store will still have it installed.

I do think that it would be easier to work on a SZ. I have seen both, and I think the TZ screen is just too small to be practical for a lot of things. My vision is better than average (20/10).

 

I often have MS word, excell, windows mail and surf the net, and really have not noticed that the TZ to be that bad as the salespersons have indicated to you, and quite frankly, it suits my need nicely. The screen is just wonderful and I am very please with my purchase. Granted, I purchased from Sonystyle USA, so I could take advantage of the 30 day no questions asked return policy just in case the TZ was too slow. By no means am I a power user, amd 90% of what I do with an ultraportable is as described above. Just the other night I used the DVD while traveling; I'm just amazed at the picture quality. Initially when I purchased the TZ it was slow to boot up, but after I uninstalled Norton, the boot time decreased substantially, still slow compared to probably the sz, but it does not bother me for the most part. I use "sleep" most of the time anyway.

Were you able to play with the TZ while you were in the sonystyle store? What were your thoughts on the TZ?

 

I like the TZ and I was amazed at the screen quality. I was shocked that they were not recommending the tz. I didnt get to really play with the tz as in open multiple windows. I am a little bit worried about using something so small for everyday use, but I like the portability of it. If I was wealthy, I would buy the sz AND tz. I am not a big person (5'6", 110 lbs.) and it seems that the tz would be so easy to use on my lap at meetings. I see myself carrying it around the hospital like a book. On the other hand, maybe it is too small and too slow to use for writing papers and using excel/ access/ powerpoint at once? Those seem like simple operations and it doesnt seem like you all are having difficulty with this.

 

Well, if they buy the default config (1GB), don't put more memory in, and don't remove bloatware - yeah, any computer is going to be slow. I run Office, VMWare, and have a couple of browser windows open on a routine basis on my G1 which has a Core Solo 1.33 and 2GB of memory. It's not really an issue.

And I agree - they may have a ton of SZs to sell, so naturally they're going to try to get those out of the door first.

 

i dunno what your they are talking about I have sling box player outlook 2007 winamp and using internet while doing homework on excel and I have no problem but then again i installed xp

 

The SZ appeals to a wider demographic because it is not too much bigger than the TZ but is much more powerful and usuable than the TZ when both are at their stock bloated to hell configs.

Many used to ultraportables like the TZ could get used to the SZ but not the other way around.

The TZ150N/B I tried at Bestbuy was DISGUSTINGLY slow, it pained me how slow it was out of the box. It is RIDICULOUS to buy this $1800+ notebook and have to either install 2gb of ram and remove the bloatware or install XP to even make it USABLE.

 

To be fair, a major issue with the TZ150 is the 1.8" 4200rpm drive. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

It's going to be slow no matter what. But add to that less memory and bloatware, it's the perfect storm of painfully slow.

 

Don't kid yourself. The SZ would be way too heavy for you to carry around all day. It doesn't seem that bad, but when it's on your back or shoulder all day, you can definitely feel the weight.

Since you're not a big person, I would definitely recommend the TZ over the SZ any day, especially if you do not game. I run plenty of programs simultaneously on my TZ. I get very disorganized and tend to have more than 10 tabs in firefox open and when I'm typing up lab reports, I have tons of excel and word windows open. The performance is absolutely snappy.

Of course, I have 2GB ram and the SSD but I believe you were saying in the other thread that you were interested in the SSD model as well.

Finally, I'm a big guy (6'2" 190lbs), and I don't find the screen too tiny. You get used to it. Besides, what's the big deal about tiny anyway? Just keep yourself closer to the screen.

I'm running Vista Home Premium.

 

Yeah, I tried the tz150 at bb also. It was horribly slow. In fact, I got tired of making small talk with the salesperson while we waited for it to boot up and finally left. THere is no way I could own a laptop that slow.

I think you all are right in that they have a backlog of szs. I must say that seeing the two of them next to each other, I was struck by how NICE the tz looked. It is a goodlooking little machine.

 

The TZ150 is configured with 1GB of ram. Windows Vista at bootup takes up roughly 850MB without loading ANY programs. Adding the Sony bloat, you're looking at 900MB on boot up. Open internet explorer, and any more programs will force you to use your hard drive as virtual memory, which is 1000 times (literally) than your ram. That's why the TZ150 runs so horribly slow. The hard drive contributes some, but you just can't run Vista on 1GB of ram.

 

jc4ho,

That is good to hear that you have no problem with multiple windows open. Yes! I thought the tz would be perfect for me to carry around! Right now I am using a dell inspiron 2005 with a 12" screen and I type on it fine. But it weighs around 4 lbs. (like the sz) and I notice the weight when I take it on trips. In fact, I dont like to take it anywhere anymore, especially since the battery died. THis is why I want to get a new notebook soon, as I am going to a meeting in a couple weeks. ALso, I am hoping that I will be more motivated to write with a new computer!

 

And another thing that the guys told me at sony...that people only buy the tz when they travel ALL the time, and only to do simple things like check their email. Who would pay so much for a laptop to check their email?

 

I do all my computing on the TZ and typically have 10+ applications open including all the heavyweights, QuarkXpress, Photoshop CS, Word, Firefox, Outlook, etc. and not for a moment do I think it's too small. It takes about two to three days to get used to the smaller keyboard and then you're over the hump.

After that, even a 12-inch computer will feel like a behemoth. A hilarious change of attitude.

 

That's partially true - the more you're on the road, the lighter a load you want.

However, they wouldn't sell as many T series notebooks (going back to the old ones) if road warriors were the only ones buying them.

Those salesmen really seem to want to get the sale (NOT).

 

THanks guys. You all are great. I drove home disappointed and convinved that I would be buying the sz. Now I know that the sony guys advice was all hogwash. I am still planning on the tz, based on what you all have told me. I just dont see myself discretely opening the sz in a meeting to check my email or sneak some work in on a paper.

 

Notwithstanding that these particular Sony salespeople don't have much credibility from their other comments, this is an interesting statement. If trying to push SZ overstock, there isn't much upside in telling a customer that a new model is coming down the pike... Wonder what was behind this comment. (I didn't think the G was coming to the US anytime soon)

 

The 2 gb RAM upgrade for the TZ150 is a must. It is not as slow as some people say. You can definitely do multi tasking on TZ150, but if you cannot play certain games smoothly, then don't blame the computer.

My TZ150 is great, and suits my need. It has an amazing screen, lightweight, loooong battery life, and excellent keyboard.

What I dislike about the SZ is the keyboard; it's too noisy.

 

In my experience, this is right on the money. To this I can add that I use my TZ195N for work and have the following apps currently open:

- FireFox with 26 tabs
- Internet Explorer with 2 tabs
- Four Explorer windows
- Microsoft Outlook 2003
- Microsoft Excel with 4 HUGE (read: 20-30 MB) workbooks open
- Microsoft PowerCalc (running in compatibility mode)
- Adobe Acrobat 8.0

On top of this, I'm running as tasks:

- GPSGate
- Logitech SetPoint software
- Microsoft Live Messenger
- Skype
- NOD32 antivirus

Of course, my system runs slow as molasses ... NOT! The semi-clean install and 48GB SSD make for a completely smooth Vista Business experience. My brother with his souped up Vista gaming machine, who claimed for days that I couldn't possibly live with Vista on a TZ, definitely shut up after playing with the system for just a few seconds. I have no issues with working full-time with the notebook the last two days, and the weight savings is much more important than I thought. No way would I consider anything heavier (the Dell XPS M1330 is the only other alternative).

Hope that helps.

 

12" laptop - I didnt consider the G2 (G3?) but I bet you are right.

THe salespeople were odd. I thought they would be all over trying to sell the tz. The lady at bestbuy was the same...she kept pushing the sz over the tz. Maybe Sony is offering higher payoffs for selling the sz.

Albireo, that helps a lot. That sounds like what I would be running. BTW, where did you buy your 195? Why would you consider the xps? That was my original choice for a computer, but I didnt want the weight.

Another thing I was wondering, is the ssd preferable to the regular system that is on the sz? The ssd sounds like it is less prone to mechanical problems.

 

SSD is all solid state - no moving parts. If you can afford it over a standard HDD, it's much better for a laptop. Don't expect to see a ton more battery life, though.

The G is a standard aspect ratio laptop - not a widescreen. Same basic specs as the TZ (but not as many configurable options), but different form factor and lighter. It's a nice laptop, but definitely not as "Sexy" as the TZ. But I'll tell ya - it's the most fully functioning ultraportable I've owned and it only weighs in at about 2lbs. Can't beat that. One big difference is that the G has PCMCIA whereas the TZ has the ExpressCard. So that could be a potential issue (or not).

 

lmao if a ~4lb notebook is too heavy to carry around all day i think you have some problems

 

Yeah, try carrying my 9lb beast.

 

If my preference when put up to your interpretation is a problem, then so be it.

It's like carrying 2 textbooks around. Why do it unless you have to?

 

im saying, you must be pretty weak if a ~4lb notebook would be too much to carry around all day.

there are people here that carrying around 15.4" notebooks to college, macbooks, mbp's, and they have no problem, and they're all 5lbs +

i used to carry around a dell 500m when i started school, and my last year i had my sz, which was ~1.5lbs less. plus atleast 2 books. it wasnt a big deal, i would carry that around for atleast 5hrs a day.

 

It's not if it's just one of several things you also have to carry around. And if you don't use a backpack -- for business, I have to use an annoying briefcase -- the weight becomes magnified. Put in the AC adapter and maybe a protective case, and an extra pound or two is like water in the desert, especially if you have a 45-minute one-way, walking commute every day.

Yeah, we can all have a He-Man attitude too, but stuff just wears on you eventually, you know?

 

i use the same thing, not exactly a briefcase, but briefcase style. and i had to walk around campus all day. and i've had books that weigh more than 4lbs also


well maybe if you're a girl. its too heavy lol

 

just get the tz with the 48 or 64gb ssd, 1.2ghz ulv core 2 duo then if you want something that doesnt weight anything, or a G2, which specs are pretty much the same, and even lighter. but if you want to do anything else besides office/email/websurfing/watching movies get the sz

 

Yes I will probably get the tz. I am going to research the sz a little, but I am leaning towards the tz.

It's not that none of us can handle the weight of the sz, it is just more of an inconvenience managing the bigger weight and bulk of the sz. If one is okay with the limited functional capacity and price of the tz, than why not get the tz? I know that carrying a backpack with medical books and my 4+ pound inspiron through airport security is awkward. It is always a struggle to squeeze it back into the pack after putting it through the security belt. It's only a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of life, but still...

 

To each their own, I know my gf made fun of me when I was complaining about the weight of my briefcase. Then she tried carrying it for me ... that didn't last long .... So perhaps I'm even "less" than a girl, to use your infantile analogy.

As for the question about SSD: I would not in a million years get a TZ without an SSD, at least not for the workload I listed above. That would be just too painful. The SSD makes up for the slowness of the TZ's other hardware, in particular the video card and processor. Without it you notice not only the long moments the HD is thrashing away, but also start being irritated by the rest of the system. The SSD is costly, but as far as I'm concerned the TZ is not worth buying without it.

In fact, what I wish existed was a SonyStyle-sourced 64GB + DVD TZ, damn the cost, but unfortunately this is not to be in the time frame I need my TZ.

 

i would of gotten one too, but i cant afford a 3000+ laptop, plus i use photoshop, have multiple excel spreadsheets open, and play the occasional game( which right now is only c&c: generals, old game) so im happy i didnt get one. although it would be nice to use when i dont need to do any of that.

 

You can get the 64 gb/dvd tz91 at dynamism or conics. I imagine that sony will come out with the us version any week now, but I think the tz91 will still be cheaper.

I wouldnt buy the tz w/out the ssd either. I was asking more in relation to the sz. Does the fact that the sz doesnt have a ssd a fault, or does it not matter, as it is a different class notebook. Will all notebooks eventually have ssd?

 

with power saving settings, switch set to stamina, dim the screen a little bit. and wifi on, i get 4-4:15 hrs on my sz, and it isnt a premium model with the led screen, its 4.1lbs, big difference from the dell 500m i had before which was like 5.5

i'm not sure, but you could probably swap out the hdd in the sz fora 2.5" ssd. but it woudl be costly. its in a different class(still pretty 'ultra'portable though, but not to the extent that the tz is) because it has a graphics card, and a regular core 2 duo processor. you could use it as a replacement for your desktop, which i have and i use the docking station

 

also, is this going to be your only computer?

 

Well, some of us either have back problems or from years of carrying around laptops that were 5+ lbs have issues. Being on the road, it's amazing what a pound or two can add.

It's great you're He Man. I prefer to preserve my back health long term.

The SZ (which I do own) is the absolute upper limit of weight I will carry for a laptop, but I'm glad I tote the G right now. Night and day.

 

Yes this will be my only computer, although I have a dell inspiron 700m that I guess I could also use. I dont like carrying it around, plus the battery died so it is basically useless to transport. And my parrot popped a couple keys off of it. It seems to work fine though. I wanted something light I could carry around work with me. But I have to admit that I am wondering now if I should get the sz, maybe spend 2k, and then in a few months get the newer tz.

 

idk if i was you, i'd get the premium sz if it was your only computer. and then when the asus eee comes out you can pick up one of those for web browsing, email, light office use. but thats just me,the top of the line eee is ~400

 

It's all relative. A few years back, the rage was "desktop replacements" -- 8-10-pound notebooks that people thought they could lug around.

Except for the 17-inch freaks, you rarely hear talk about such notebooks anymore. Everyone wants lighter and smaller and that's the long-term trend. Soon, even our 11-inch lappys are going to be considered too big!

 

Oddly enough, I've never been able to price the higher-end TZs cheaper at Dynamism than what SonyStyle is offering them for, online anyway. For example, I just tried pricing a 64GB SSD + DVD, 2GB RAM, Vista Business, leather case, standard battery, and 3 year (no wide) warranty, and came up with over $4,500.

But the main reason I want to buy from SonyStyle is the faster service. Oh, plus the Sprint EVDO card which I may never use, but you never know!

As for the SZ and SSD, I'm afraid I don't have any input on that, other than to say that having an SSD option made the Dell M1330 an immediate attraction. I am positive that most notebooks will eventually have SSD, though. In fact, "eventually" may actually be "soon!" Imagine the time when relatively inexpensive 128GB and 256GB SSDs are available. Why wouldn't: a) people be happy with that amount of storage, and b) laptop manufacturers offer them across the board when their competition is trouncing them in performance tests using SSDs? I wouldn't be surprised if SSDs made it into most desktops as well!

 

Racer don't listen to anyone. TZ with SSD is a powerful laptop out there. If you don't play any games, go for it. In my opinion SZ is soooo big in confront of the TZ.
I owned TZ90 for a couple of months and I didn't had any issue os slowness in any program. Most of the times I used Photoshop, Office, Video Encoding, Excel and a lot of tabs in Firefox....not even once I felt the slow processor or the poor video card. As other say SSD feel up other disadvantages. Of course a TZ with the 4200 rpm is out of the question for heavy things!
By the way, I sold mine (32 GB SSD+DVD) for taking the new model with 64 GB SSD. Or maybe I will wait max untill January for the next refresh... Do you think they will change anything except the storage?

 

heres a picture i found, its not the tz but the tx is almost the same size

 

Yes, the SZ is in a different class, at least processor-wise, so it's theoretically much faster. However, due to the idiosyncrasy of Vista and the TZ's SSD drive, the TZ is almost as fast, and in booting up, faster. That also answers your second question. By 2009, virtually all notebooks will come with SSDs and by 2010, hard drives will bite the dust permanently as the solid state drive's advantages totally outweigh their disadvantages, primarily cost.

If you leave out those profit boosters, the RAM and the leather case, I come out to only $3750, assuming you buy your RAM for $100 somewhere else, so your comparison is warped, but I can see going for the Sprint modem, I am.

 

Ah, but those profit boosters come included with the SonyStyle models! Oh, I had a question: Dynamism no longer displays a "wide" warranty option for their standard 3-year warranty. Does this mean there is no accidental damage protection any more from them, at least for the TZ91?

BTW, I see Dynamism has the TZ100 with Sprint EVDO built-in now. Unfortunately, the model selection is very sparse.

 

Yes, SonyStyle does now include RAM and a leather case in their pricing. But isn't it funny, a year ago, if we had even had dared to mention that we spent $3500 for a lappy, they would have labeled us nuts. Then TXs were going for "only" $2200.

I guess we've become so brainwashed by Sony's TZ line that we now think nothing of spending as much as $4500 on a lappy, remarkable!

 

Yes, zero selection. I suggested to Dynamism that they become a "chop shop," buy Sprint modems on the after market and bolt them in the Japanese models to sell to us desperate lappy freaks, but the guy I spoke to was not interested.

That's why I posted the suggestion that we band together and create our own after-market custom shop to start cranking these out. I'm sure we could make quite a mint, selling to the likes of Mark Cuban and others who don't blink while spending $5000 on a laptop.

 

I have had both the TZ190N and the SZ670N -- went through the same general assessment I read here, on again off again about TZ speed vs SZ speed, size of display, etc. I ended up selling my TZ because I couldn't live with the 32G limitation, even using multiple storage cards (the TZ has 3 slots for add'l memory cards). Got the SZ thinking I should just bite the bullet and settle on a more traditional form factor in return for its greater speed, etc. Now I'm selling the SZ -- yes it's a bit speedier than my TZ was, but after eliminating the TX bloatware and fine-tuning it I found it booted and operated as well as my SZ does, at least for my use. My SZ display is bit larger but no where near as crisp or sharp, and the color saturation on the TZ are far better. Ultimately, I realized I'd come to so appreciate the small form factor of the TZ and its delightfully long battery life, I can't live with the more traditional limitations on my SZ (3 hr battery life vs the 5-6 or better I'd get with my TZ). As one UMPC evangelist pointed out when promoting the UMPC over "typical" laptops, would you pull out your laptop/notebook (whatever it is) and use it while standing in line, or sitting on a bench.... with my TZ I did -- it was great and I was never particularly bothered by others around me, but I'd not do that with my SZ -- too big (and heavy).

The SSD really does make a difference and, as many comments here agree, when the SSD technology and production catches up to demand (a year or more) I have no doubt all laptops will use it. So I agree with those who suggest you not buy any but the SSD TZ model. Sony will formally introduce their TZ198N with 64G SSD and 200G HDD (5400rpm) this week -- you can buy one on ebay at about $400 less than Sony's price (Canadian guy has a line on a number of them).

 

By the way, if you decide to buy from Dynamism, give them a call and let them know of competing companies such as Price-Japan and Conics.net. They may be willing to drop their price by 100-200 at least.

 

The TZ isn't a UMPC though. It's an ulrtaportable notebook (or subnotebook). There is no doubt that it has longer battery life and more portability than most notebooks, but it's not something you can just keep in your pocket.