The official VAIO Z battery drain thread

I have an NW - with the same problem (if not worse).

Here's my theory...

Every hardware device has a System Power State to Device Power State Mapping.

I notice that for most devices system power state S4 (hibernate) maps onto device state D3 (off). So in hibernation these devices should not consume power.

However, for a few devices S4 maps onto D2 (an intermediate low power state - that will consume power).

On my VAIO these are...

DeviceName: ALPS-UGPZ9-BCM2046
DeviceName: USB Composite Device
DeviceName: Sony Visual Communication Camera
DeviceName: HID-compliant device
DeviceName: Microsoft Bluetooth Enumerator
DeviceName: USB Root Hub (a number of these)

So I think the solution is new drivers in which S4 > D3.

Any thoughts?

 

Checking all your devices should have taken you a while...

I'll try checking mine later on today.

But yeah, I suspected the power states after observing a work PC that never turns off its ethernet port (2x LEDs are always on) and the PS2 keyboard (numlock light is always on; cannot be turned off). I just naturally related those issues to the Z and the high-pitched sounds.

@Friedrich
I know that no lappie should consume that much battery just booting up. But then, you try shutting down on AC, then immediately starting back up on battery. My personal theory is that the battery tells windows inaccurate info regarding how much power is left when starting up. After a few minutes that returns to normal (for me at least). And as a result, random messages.

I've said this earlier, but I once have stored the Z with the battery attached (no AC) for just over a day (30 hours), and when I attached the AC brick (but didn't startup Windows), the charging LED never came on which tells me no battery drain.

So... The possibilites:

1. VAIO Battery isn't telling Windows correct info - Not too sure if it is fixable
2. Power mapping (as bobsterman stated) is not set properly by default - can be fixed with correct drivers
3. Mobo is still supplying needless power to other hardware - BIOS update can fix that

What I find interesting though is why my drainage is less than (most) others...

 

I wonder if it is possible to patch the drivers, not sure of the architecture for the powermanagment settings. If there are in some sort of settings file, the registry or embedded within the code. Anyone know how these settings are stored?

Gary

 

Nice idea, but AFAIR this has already been reported, tested, and shown do not having an impact. Sorry.

 

How was it "tested"? How did someone go about changing the powerstate that the driver sets?

Gary

 

Mentioned also in this thread (read read!), go into device manager, settings or so, you can adjust the transistion changes to your liking.

 

What are you talking about? I have read every message in this thread and have contributed to the very messages about how to go into device manager to SEE what the settings are. But there is no way in device manager to CHANGE these settings. If you know of some way please point me to the message in this thread that tells how.

Gary

 

This is correct - in Device Manager or using POWERCFG at a command prompt you can view System State > Device State Mappings. However, you cannot change them. As far as I know these are built into the drivers.

You can change whether a device can be "turned off" to save power, or whether it can wake the system from standby - but you cannot change the specific System State > Device State Mappings. This is important because "turned off" could mean D2 or D3. Only D3 is really off.

Here's one reason I think something is wrong here. Look at the mappings for USB Root Hub...

S0 -> D0 (on)
S1 -> D3 (sleep)
S2 -> D3 (sleep)
S3 -> D2 (sleep)
S4 -> D2 (hibernation)
S5 -> D3 (off)

For a device - D0 is on, D1 and D2 are low power states, D3 is off.

Notice that for S4 hibernation - the device power state is set to be higher (D2) than for sleep states S1 and S2 where the device is genuinely off (D3). In true hibernation - devices should be in D3.

I realise this possibility has been discussed briefly in this thread before - e.g.

However, I don't think it has been conclusively eliminated as a possible cause - and I don't think anyone has previously identified specific examples of apparently incorrect mappings (S4 -> D2) of the type that favorini suggested might exist.

 

Hmm,

I am also noticing about 10% drain a day but recently noticed something new.

When I don't use my bettery for a week or two( not attached to laptop) i am experiencing some drain as well.

i lost about 20% battery from a full charge when it was left on the shelf for 2/3 weeks.

perhaps there is a problem with the battery itself not the laptop?

 

But for S5 it's correct.

And the battery drain is at S5!!!!

For S3 or S4 it's normal to drain battery.
Probalbly it's D2 so you can wake up the device with something connected to the USB bus. Have you allowed some USB connected device to wake up your laptop?

TDO

 

Battery drain is to be expected at S3 - but not at S4.

S4 is hibernation - i.e contents of RAM saved to hard disk and everything else off (D3). Boot is from the saved memory image.

According to the ACPI specifications - in S4 all hardware devices should be powered OFF - i.e. D3 not D2. Note that the term "hibernation" is the generally used term for what is officially known as "S4 Non-Volatile Sleep. Defined as follows...

http://www.acpi.info/spec.htm

"S4 Sleeping State*
The S4 sleeping state is the lowest power, longest wake latency sleeping state supported by ACPI. In order to reduce power to a minimum, it is assumed that the hardware platform has powered off all devices. Platform context is maintained."

 

I know what S4 is.

But it's completely irrelevant.

The big problem is that the Sony drains battery like hell at S5!!

 

Why do so many people believe that when they 'shutdown' a computer that it will consume zero power? Here's a clue:



Does that IEC symbol look familar? Seen it on any other devices in your home or office, like on TVs, cable/satellite box, etc?

 

Why would the IEC standby symbol cause people to believe that when they push it, the device "will consume zero power"?

 

The symbol does indicate standby, and from what I understand the default setting in the VAIO control center settings for power is to put the computer to sleep when the button is pressed.

However, the computer can also be SHUTDOWN without ever touching that button. If the computer is SHUTDOWN, it should not consume power regardless of any symbol anywhere.

The issue remains that my Z consumes 12% of it's battery per 24 hours completely SHUTDOWN.

 

The 'power switch' you see on laptops doesn't physically turn on or off the power supply, it's just a 'soft' or virtual switch that sends a signal to the motherboard so that the machine can decide to boot up, shutdown or whatever. This means that when your laptop is shutdown, the motherboard needs to be on, consuming some current, in order to allow the power switch to work...

 

Man you are far behind what we are talking. Thanks for that useless contribution, as if we don't know that.

Ever heard of that 2-3 click way to *shutdown* (meaning completely) you computer?

 

I'm not talking about the standby function, I'm talking about "Standby power" (phantom load) and how a device will consume power even when we think they're 'off'!

Do you really think your computer consumes zero power when it's shutdown?!!! Really? The only way to do this on a desktop computer is to switch it off at the mains or use the 'hard' switch on the PSU. On a laptop you will need to remove the battery and switch it off at the mains.

 

Yes and? This has been discussed at length. This minimal amount does *NOT* explain a battery drain of 10+ percent in a few hours.

If you say so, please study the technical sheets how much a power switch might consume. Definitely *not* 10+ percent of my battery in a few hours.

 

Not just how much a 'power switch' might consume but the motherboard and associated circuits.

10+ percent off of your battery in a few hours? A lot more than before then? Are you booting up on battery power?

 

Apologies everyone but it is a LOOONG thread.

May I ask if Sony fixed this problem with their latest batch of Zs? (i.e. 899 series)

Thanks,
UL

 

Am using Windows 7 now and I am getting the impression that battery drain is less heavy now than before (Vista). But this could be a fata morgana or an example of wishful thinking. Nevertheless I think that the best solution is to go on with the hopeful good work you all are doing with this otherwise excellent notebook. Thereby I hope that the almighty Sony company will find a solution for this awkward battery waster problem. Do they read this forum too?

 

Someone very patient and nice on this forum should probably upload a video on Youtube to let the public know about the problem with Sony Vaio's battery drain.

This bad publicity should get Sony North America to action on this battery drain issue.

I'm surprise Sony has not done a single thing to address the problem but kept insisting this is normal.

 

One word: liability

The moment a large company admits to a flaw, hordes of lawyers will have a field day.

Sony is in the game to make money. So they know there is a problem, they know you know there is a problem, but cannot admit to it being a problem until forced to do so, or a fix is ready that's cheaper to implement than what they'll lose in an inevitable class action suit.

 

Point well taken. I guess bad publicity will make Sony own up somehow. Hopefully someone on the forum can post something on Youtube and I will give it a 5-star rating. Heck, if it takes a lot of resources, I'm sure some of us here will be willing to support a good video on the defect.

 

What's scary is when I googled "Sony VAIO battery drain" I found posts from circa 2006 with same exact problem. So sad that they didn't resolve it yet

 

If it starts being mentioned in reviews on major sites then Sony will take notice.

 

Is it common procedure to test battery drainage while the notebook is hibernating or shut off? I guess it is such a strange concept that most tests will not test this issue and know anything about it. And it is really strange that Sony did not react in all those years. I guess arth1 on top of this page hit the nail on its head.
If they admitted it the consequences might be very painful, but that they do not correct the problem is something far beyond my comprehension. That we are treated like idiots by the support that really makes me furious without the power of changing anything.

 

Which other sites beside CNET? Tom's Hardware? Just linking this thread onto those sites would be enough to catch Sony's attention IMHO. I probably should start to comment unless any of us had already done so.

I should have done substantial research before jumping in and buying a Vaio FW earlier this year. At that time the 1920x1080 screen was what picked my interest. Had I known about this issue, I would have crossed the Vaio line out though I'm not sure if there were a lot of alternatives back then for a 1920x1080 on a 16" screen besides the Dell XPS 16.

 

Lawyers will have a field day? I don't think so. All laptops will eat some battery capacity in Shutdown unless there is a hard switch that completely cuts off the power circuit. It's just that Sony laptops and particular ones from Toshiba, Asus, HP etc., are sipping a tiny bit more juice than other more efficient laptops. Yes, we're really talking about a tiny amount - probably something like 0.4 watts extra or so. To put that figure into perspective, a typical Nokia style mobile phone charger that is plugged into a socket and switched on but NOT actually charging a phone can waste 0.5 to 0.6 watts doing absolutely nothing!

How will such a tiny amount of 0.4 watts (400mW) drain my battery, I hear you all ask? Well, in one hour it won't be noticeable but in twelve hours - 0.4 x 12 = 4.8 - that's 4.8 watt-hours. On a 58 watt-hour battery that's like 8% loss. In 24 hours it'll be 17% loss, then in 48 hours it'll be 33% loss and so on.

Why are our Sony, certain Toshiba, Asus and HP (and others) laptops using so much more energy? Probably just inefficient circuits and or the accumulative effect of adding more and more functions like quick-start AV Modes and fancy battery checking circuits etc. So what we need to tell Sony et al, is to not only stop installing bloatware on our machines but bloated hardware also!

 

Completely shutdown my SR at work today. 7 hours later I boot it up on battery. When I have a usable desktop, I look at the battery meter and it says I still have 80% left which corresponds to my battery care setting. In the past this same procedure would result in something more like 72% battery left. I do not know what is different but I am guessing that this has more to do with the battery meter not being a true indication of battery charge.

 

Further, I shut down my SR last night with 66% left on battery. I boot it this morning on battery about 8 hours later and now it shows 47%. This was with the laptop shut down (not hibernate or standby) To me this is further proof that it is more about inaccurate battery readings than an actual drain. At least in my case. There seems to be no consitency or linearity in the battery readings.

 

It seems the battery drain is somewhat of a misnomer. Although the battery indicator states the life has decreased, actual performance doesn't seem to reflect this.

I left my CW unplugged from full capacity for about two days, and the battery life was 18% when I booted it. I continued to use it without AC power, and got about 3 hours of use, which is typical. The 18% indicator didn't drop until 2 1/2 hours into work.

 

ckjy,

I agree. That seems to be my case. Although I have not done any extensive testing from that perspective, I have noticed that when I start out at a lower than full charge, the indicator will not move for quite a while. In fact, last night, as my % dropped during usage, my time remaining actually went up slightly for a while. I have read where there is a data circuit inside the battery that feeds back to the main board. Perhaps this circuit has faulty logic/algorithms to measure battery statistics.

 

Now Sony has found a new strategy. Read the last entries!

Do you really think Sony wouldn't have corrected something as simple to straighten as what you suggest? Do you really think that it is the same with a couple of models over a couple of years?
Oh, there is a great future for all sorts of delusions.

 

did u see this ?
http://www.kb.sony.com/selfservice/...S_1_1&dialogID=117014236&stateId=1 0 47118395

 

I remember a few months back an explanation by Sony on SonyAsia's site. I don't remember where it is.

That though, is total bull and everyone knows it. Maintain just a CMOS clock battery and it drains 10-15% a day? What about every other brand lappie out there?

But then, as mentioned above, and by myself earlier on, the battery does seem to be telling windows incorrect charge info.

I myself have seen it drain (but no more than 20% in 3 days, so I have it lucky I guess), but when I log onto Windows, it takes a while before the battery meter actually starts decreasing.

 

A computer shop tec told me the problem is with the AV Mode feature. It is like your TV that has an 'instant' on feature....i.e. it continuously draws power. when you push the AV Mode button it instantly pops up with the DVD etc screen.

I have tried to find a way to shut that feature down without success. Any tecs out there with the answer?

 

What about Z series owners? The Z don't have AV Mode in the first place, or any 'instant on' feature found on CS and FW series (ain't too sure about the newer CW and others though)

 

? From Sony USA itself?

The computer is completely turned off but the battery is still being drained.

Solution


The battery of a notebook computer will continue to drain even when it is completely turned off because the computer constantly uses a small amount of power to maintain different built-in tools and functions. This is by design and is normal operation.

To avoid having the battery drain completely, periodically attach the AC Adaptor and recharge the battery.

NOTE: The battery will drain an average of 10-15% a day, even when off, depending on the environment, temperature, and power requirements of the enabled software tools and functions.

 

And the FZ series HAS the AV mode but not the battery drain issue.

Gary

 

I had my FW lying around unused for days with the battery totally drained. I had shut it down but still experienced drain of course.

I charged it completely last night and noticed that about 20-22 hours later, the battery is still fully charged. I noticed this since the amber light did not come on when plugging in the AC adapter.

It must be some software/hardware combination causing the battery drain. If it's just a hardware design flaw, shouldn't the battery start draining once fully charged after a total battery drain? Some hardware must be left running even with a Windows OS shutdown.

 

i have Z890 (the latest Canadian model), got it in mid november, bios 3050m did 2-3 full discharges right away, never used battery care, also had this drain at about 12% per 8hour night especiallyy when powered on without an AC, BUT -- last night i tried what others tried, left the lap for 9 hours turned off with 100% initial charge, then plugged in the cord - no light (means the bat is full); turned on the lap - windows shows 100% charge.

So even if the drain was there, and after 9 hours it should be around 8-10%, I don't think it could rapidly charge up to 100% in less than a minute it took me to log into windows.

Thus the bug is more present when powering on off the battery. I think...

 

I wonder if you do the steps, but this time instead of leaving it plugged in when you power up, unplug it and power it on.

Because it sounds like it may be a software issue with the battery indicator. I am wondering if the battery is not draining, but the indicator is. Some other people have metioned that it showed a low % (under 20), but still got 2 or more hours of life out of the battery. Which that should not be possible if you are under 20%.

If course in this case, plugging it in alone might reset the indicator, who knows.

 

Yeah, good idea, I think that might be it - just a faulty indicator (as I recall it was happening with older models and Vista, mine is win7 final, but again, vista and win7 are not THAT different and could be using the same software module for retrieving the info from the battery). I'm wondering if there are any Ubuntu users with Z, so just to confirm it's the sony's bios/firmware/hardware issue, and not the windows' issue.

 

It is a BIOS issue. I am running more or less only Debian and the drain is present whatever I do. I actually asked on the linux kernel mailing list for suggestions, the answers were uniform: Fix the BIOS.

 

When my Vaio notebook gets discharged to the point that no battery power remains, the battery once charged tends to hold its charge well.

This points to the Bios, OS, or hardware being the culprit. But then again, you mentioned you were only running Linux and still experience the drain, so strike the OS out. That leaves the hardware not being shut down properly, most likely because of the Bios' instruction? Strange Sony can't fix a seemingly simple issue.

 

Why should they? They will simply release a new laptop and hope that more customers will buy the new one ... which for sure will have another stupidity.

That was the first and last laptop from sony I bought, they are so incredible ignorant.

Be reminded that I am helping developing the kernel module for sony laptops in the linux kernel, and some more apps around sony on linux, so I am not a newby. It is just that sony is the greatest rubbish producer I have ever seen. Take a look at the switch of behaviour with new BIOSes that destroys all the graphics cards switching on Unix ... they are a PITA and as useful as . Unfortunately ...

 

well again, there is NO real drain, it's just the indicator, and if AC is plugged in before powering on - the battery indicator shows 100% charge. So it's the indicator, or whatever function in the bios that is related to it.

norbusan - this issue is present in almost all of the Vaio model lines, and dates back as yearly as 2003. So you can be damn sure the new ones will have the same issue present

 

Sorry, but this is *wrong*. If I leave my laptop off for one week because I am in the mountains clmbing, and come back and the laptop does not boot, and plugging the AC I have to wait a bit until it boots, and then later I see 5% charge -- when I left it at 100% before leaving -- that *IS* real drain.

And I am not suspending, neither to ram nor to disk, I am shutting down, with linux, with windows, with whatever.

There is a drain, it is real, and Sony is to blame for being smartass. See there statement on the support pages, they even admit and call it "feature".

No, last Sony product forever.