Thoughts on the new Vaio Z..

Haven't actually seen the new Vaio Z in person.. But, i was seriously considering pulling the trigger on it.. Anyways, I was at Bestbuy today and got a chance to see the new s series. For the Vaio line, I was disappointed with the new design concept of having a separate palmrest. Atleast the s series is all plastic so it blended it in better. Still there was somewhat of a contrast that took away from the overall design. really it looks like they just slapped it on there.. anyone know why the palmrest is a separate piece this time?

But for the new Z, the plastic palmrest on the aluminum keyboard bezel will look awful. I've seen some videos and pictures on youtube and the palmrest did not look good at all.. it was significantly darker than the rest of the laptop.. and the brushed aluminum seem to have lines going sideways where as the plastic palmrest didn't..

Moreover, I was surprised to learn that the vaio z is actually slightly thicker than the s-series. Not sure what Sony was thinking there.

Anyways, my point is that Sony took a step back with the design of this product. Sure, the ssd drives and the new gpu in at 13.1 inch package make it enticing. But not for over 2k.. the design is not there this time and I bet Apple with answer with a better product soon.

so I for one will be passing on this new Z.. Looking forward to the new t series that will be released in two months.. Hopefully, Sony will not drop the ball with that one.

curious see what others think about this, esp those of you who own one. feel free to disagree..

 

I wish they didn't design the palmrest the way they did but it didn't break the sale for me. I seriously considered the bestbuy S series but the screen just didn't do it for me, so I took the plunge ad told myself i will just keep this one longer (doubt it but i will try!) I am very happy with my purchase so far (day 2) and hope to get a good year with this.

 

Glad to hear that. I am only ranting because I was so close to buying it.. Hard to cope with design issues.

 

i had the bestbuy S then returned it, for 3 primary reasons:

(in no order)
-batter drain
-screen resolution - i needed more usable workspace for work
-overall feel (is great!) but i was concerned about the longevity of it... for example the lid itself can be pressed inward... and the area around the keyboard is made of plastic... my last laptop lasted me about 6 years... IF i decide to get a "Z" i will keep it for AT LEAST the same amount of time, unless it fails

 

Apple has never offered this level of hardware in this kind of package, and I don't believe they ever will. The thing about the Z is that it really doesn't have competition yet, so there's nothing really to compare it to (especially not an Apple).

 

I don't know where you hear that. I've seen comparisons with the old Vaio Z, and the new Z is noticeably thinner. (Probably 1 inch thick most of the way except the protruding battery part)

 

I've been seriously considering this laptop regardless of the price and have a question that I have not really seen answered:

How long will the SSD last? I want this laptop to be usable for at least 4-6 years and I know SSDs have limited write cycles. It seems that when running a full OS on the SSD and putting the computer into heavy use, that the lifespan of the irreplaceable drive will be very limited. I don't buy new computers very often and it's important that this lasts a long time and serves as a main machine.

The only thing holding me back from just pulling the trigger is the SSD. I understand the short-term benefits of speed and performance and whatnot, but don't want to spend this much on a machine that will have problems down the road such as performance degradation from lack of TRIM support in RAID0 and drive failure from using up all the write cycles.

 

Check the specs on the uk sony website. Z is slightly thicker.

 

Well, we'll see about Apple. I think the 13 inch macbook with i5 would be interesting. I see your point about lack of competition though. But seriously, the $1k premium people are paying for this substandard design blows my mind.

 

Right, the potential SSD issues as well. Though that seems to be the case with all ssd raid laptops, not just this one.

 

The MTBF on the new SSD's are all at least 1 million hours or more.

 

It says 23.8 to 32.7 mm thick according to Vaio UK website.

-which means .93" to 1.29". The old Z is the same. Vaio S is thicker.

 

I'm interested to see what Apple keeps as the baseline graphics with the new i3/i5 machines when they announce them. Will they only stick with the GMA HD or will they stick a G310m in there... or a GT330? IDK.. but I'm interested.

 

Steve, is that you? If so, would you mind actually refreshing the 13" MBP, rather than comparing future speculated versions of MBPs with laptops competitors are currently selling? I waited and waited, but nothing came out of all that Apple speculation

Sorry, I could not resist

 

I was only comparing the new z to the new s, not the old z.

S-series: 31.5mm
http://www.sony.co.uk/product/vnp-s-series/vpcs11v9e-b

Z-series: 32.7mm
http://www.sony.co.uk/product/vnp-z-series/vpcz11x9e-b

 

Umm....Steve isn't around. He is home getting the lint out of his stupid turtleneck sweaters.....lusting over a Sony VAIO Z.

 

I converted to apple and now im back to pc. More hardware choices and also the apple wait game for a macbook pro refresh pushed the button, when i found the local sony style store had a Z i could touch feel and take home I took the plunge. As far as those concerned with SSD issues you can always get a warranty , i think they only go upto 3years maybe 4 i forget. I usually don't keep notebooks over a year i try and sell before refresh's keeps me up to date with an average cost/loss of $500 per year.

 

Uhmmm.. i guess this was supposed to be humorous.. anyways, I've only owned vaios (currently a TZ) so I am not some Apple fanatic trying to diss a Vaio.. the only reason why I started this thread is because its amazing people are paying such a premium for the new Z when Sony cut the corner with a crappy PLASTIC palmrest design.. like i said, i'm pissed b/c i was about to pull the trigger as well..

 

curious, did u get black or silver? also, could u let me know how the palm rest blend in with the rest of the keyboard bezel? does it seem natural or out of place? thanks in advance.

 

Its really not that bad and serves an actual purpose. The temperatures you feel on your palms will be a lot lower, since the new aluminum keyboard section will be a lot more conductive. Also, if you've used a unibody mac, the sharp lines of the metal palmrests cut into your wrists and is very uncomfortable. The plastic palmrest will not have this problem.

 

I hadn't thought about temp/heat issues. good point. though i thought the old z was fine and i believe that was all aluminum, including palmrest, no?

 

I am disappointed in some of the asthetics and construction like the palmrest and front jack inputs. I am still uncomfortable with the whole SSD situation as well. I would have gotten the Z anyways if SonyStyle U.S.A. offered the 1920 x 1080 screen as an option via CTO, and learned to deal with and surely overcome my concerns. I dislike the $4500.00 glossy carbon option. I looked at Conics.net and just can't justify the cost premium. So, I just got 8GB of RAM for my 3.5 month old Z820 and am looking at my " old " Z with a new appreciation. Perhaps after a couple refreshes my mind will change but for now, the new Z will certainly be the " it " VAIO for a long time, even if it isn't " it " for me as it's currently offered.

 

The palmrest is aluminum, it does not have heat temperature issues, and it is fine. While others will disagree, I think it also looks better than the new Z's slapped on and held together by glue palmrest.

 

I'm totally with u. also, i have a new appreciation for my tz as well. its a nice looking little bugger.

 

I got silver. The palm rest is darker and does seem a bit out of place but honestly didn't really bother me until i keep reading about it here now i notice it more

 

Unless I'm mistaken, shouldn't MTBFs be taken with a grain of salt? Although 1mil hours is around the MTBF of the higher end of HDDs, isn't it? I know lifespans also have to do a lot with operating conditions and, ultimately, luck.

If 1 million hours means that I that can get a real world 6-8 years of solid, heavy use without completely using all the SSD write cycles, I'll be happy.

 

I think the use of that plastic "snap-on block" has to do with the fact that Sony takes into account the use of a much more powerful (& probably more heat producing) GPU in the new VAIO Z series. Therefore, if there are any ways to reduce heat that can be "detected" by the user, I guess Sony will be doing everything they can to achieve that objective.

 

sorry dude. just stop reading this thread then and u should be fine. plenty of others seem to be thrilled with their z's.

 

I agree.

Nothing is perfect in this world. Just think about the positives & enjoy the new notebook!

 

maybe the heat explanation has some slight merit. but i really think it was a cost-cutting measure on Sony's part. No problems with them using plastic snap-on's for the lower priced models but not for a 2k - 4k lappy..

 

It most certainly does BUT that piece of plastic could have been designed to blend in better by going edge to edge instead of " 98% " across and most certainly could have molded the plastic with a closer matching color to the rest of the body. It just looks asthetically bad.

 

I tend to be really picky about these things.. perhaps a part of me is hating Sony because I was really looking forward to getting this but can't quite justify the purchase now.. But please don't let this take away from your experience with the z's. Like this dude said, there are lots of positives as well!

 

2 things come to my mind:

1) The palmrest "block" is being implemented the way Sony does on the VAIO Z mainly to ensure that it is "similar across the line" to what has been implemented design-wise on the other new VAIO series (such as the VAIO F, VAIO E, etc.).
2) I think that unless the palmrest "block" & plamrest "frame" are made of the same material, it is very, very hard to get both of them to have the exact same color because of the materials being use. It will be hard to get rid of issues such as different materials reflect light in a certain way & so on...

 

Right, the TZ has a piano black plastic around the keyboard and a different plastic finish at the palmrest. but this other piece of plastic covers 100% of the lower 1/4 of the notebook. much better design in my opinion.

 

If the Z's price was also similar to those other lines, I would not be complaining.

 

Frankly I'm impressed that besides for the price and Intel's shortcomings on RAID Trim support (technically nothing wrong with the Z on that count), the only real criticism on the new Z is the bleeping palmrest.

This is seriously of that much concern? It's like buying a Ferrari and then being upset because the glovebox doesn't hold as much as your previous sedan.

 

think it would be more similar to ferrari slapping on a plastic hood that appeared to be a different color from the rest of the car.. the glovebox might be more comparable to the rubber covers of the docking port.. and yes for 2k - 4k, it does matter.

 

I agree. I would much rather take a light aesthetic flaw in exchange for improved functionality, than the other way around.

 

I don't think you understand how hard it is to match colors on dissimilar materials. It would have been foolish for Sony to even try.

 

so why use different materials in the first place? i really think its more cost savings than heat issues..

like the other guy said, we are talking ferrari's not hyundais..

 

Hmm, I would suggest give it time. If it is low quality plastics used to save money, then you will see the paint rub off and fade. If it is good quality, then the paint should protect for a good couple of years at least. Who wants ugly palm wear marks on there 4000$ laptop?

 

Adding a huge hunk of aluminum for the palmrest would increase the weight of the Z considerably past 3 lbs, which would negate the reason most of us are buying it in the first place. And since aluminum is a much better conductor than plastic, your wrists would be subjected to unpleasant heat when the machine is running hard and cold on chilly days. Sure I understand that a full aluminum face would have been much prettier, but I really think there are bigger factors at stake. If that sort of compromise is too much for you, I would suggest looking at an Apple, because you would probably be much happier.

 

One more reason I can think of is that Sony has 2 versions of that palmrest "block" for the VAIO Z series.

One is the one available everywhere the VAIO Z series is sold, while the other is only available in Japan. That 2nd palmrest "block" version comes with the "FeliCa" smart card reader implemented into it. Sony has apparently use plastic for this palmrest "block" that contains this "FeliCa" reader because (if I'm not wrong) aluminum isn't a material that works well enough with this reader.

Then put in the policy of "standardization across the line" & you have plastics as the material in use for the palmrest "block".

 

I agree. If palm rest can throw you off from buying one of the most advanced laptops in the world then you are really more of the Apple kind of guy .

If you ask me much bigger problem with all Sony products including Z is the proprietary bs. They are only second to Apple in that race

1. For example SSD are build in such a way that you can not fit any standard SSD. Small machine is not excuse because 1.8'' SSD are smaller then those in new SSD but they are little wider and can not fit in space for SSD in new vaio Z.

2. Locking BIOS features, Locking RAID configuration, Locking WWAN card. In Japan they even locked WWAN to service provider that prevents user to use Skype while connected over WWAN card.

3. Proprietary SSD connector.

While this approach is maybe good for Apple since target group they have in mind is more concern by design and ergonomics of the product then anything else, people attracted to vaio machines, as you can see even on this thread, beside design also care about technical specs. Because of this preventing some of the more technical savvy users to make machine to there liking is big mistake. Definitely it's sending bad message to the customers.

I bet they are loosing more money because of that then they will ever get for selling components you can only get from Sony.

 

I seriously doubt the weight savings is due to the material of the plastic palmrest instead of " a huge chunk of aluminum, " but more due to the overall streamlining of the material, reducing the weight from 3.30 pounds to 3.04 pounds. That 3.04 pounds would definitely change if Sony designed the palmrest to go edge to edge ( trivial point I'm sure but am mentioning anyways.) For some this weight savings is argumentative and perhaps carrying the Z for long periods of travel it becomes noticeable. But, as for the " old " Z's palmrest, I doubt anybody complained about the aluminum palmrest construction and wished that it was made of plastic instead. And while it is great engineering of Sony to implement the NVIDIA 330M card into the new Z, they could have done it with the " old " Z and nobody would have complained ( alright, maybe a few would have whined about it ) and I guess if Sony decides to construct the palmrest out of aluminum again, that will cause " many " .....yeah right ....to go buy that 13.3 inch Apple ... oh wait, that thing weighs almost 4.5 pounds. Give me a break.

Edit : Adding this due to additional post previous to this one as I'm sure it will get a response, for me while asthetically the plastic palmrest isn't to my liking, it isn't the reason to be a deal breaker, it's more of the SSD issue and honestly due to my apprehension in wanting to deal with as of now the additional maintenance involved with the proprietary SSD crap as they are currently implemented. I'm sure solutions will be created and it will be a non-issue. When that is the case, plastic palmrest or not I will then jump onboard the SSD train.

 

You really think these VAIO Z series are not selling? I personally think that they're selling like "hotcakes" because these are unique notebooks & they not only packs a punch in specs but they definitely look hot! If I remember correctly, the old VAIO Z series when released in Aug. 2008 didn't get as many interests here at NBR when compared to these new VAIO Z series so I definitely expect Sony to get lots of sales from this new VAIO Z series.

IMHO, one of the reasons for buying a Sony VAIO notebook is similar to buying an Apple MacBook/MacBook Pro, which is the "cool" factor. Furthermore, I personally think that "copying" Apple isn't really that bad, is it? I mean from a business point of view, just look at Apple's sales for the past 1-2 years.... Maybe "doing an Apple" is what Sony needs as it may result in them selling more & more VAIO notebooks.

 

the old Z palmrest doesnt even get heat/uneasy feel to your palm while typing anyway...

im bit disappointed too after seeing the empty case plastic palmrest..oh well, doesnt matter as the notebook spec is beyond this problem.. :/

 

This 1.2 millimeters matters to you?

All designs involve tradeoffs. It's possible that the tradeoff is between a higher quality material and cost. But there's no reason to assume that the cost tradeoff is the reason for the plastic palmrest. There are other tradeoffs we have to consider. Perhaps Sony engineers originally used an aluminum palmrest but after testing realized that due to the higher performance components the heat conducted by the aluminum would be unacceptable. Thus the plastic was used in this performance vs. aesthetics tradeoff. Or perhaps it was out of consideration for weight or to facilitate the FeliCa reader. We don't know but there's no reason to suspect that cost saving is the only reason.

I'll admit that I think the palmrest on the old Z looks better. But you have to understand that no design and engineering decision come without tradeoffs. The new Z actually pushes the boundaries of what can be made further than most other laptops. It has incredibly high performance parts, but in return it did not completely sacrifice aesthetics or portability. It's design is actually top notch, the new one piece slab with integrated cylinder is a great design in my opinion, and so is the double slate concept. The design is great enough in my opinion that things like the palmrest are overlooked as you are drawn to the other aspects of the machine. In no way did the engineering or design effort on this machine fall short or "dropped the ball", they actually did an astonishing job while making the necessary tradeoffs.

 

I am also one of those guys that bought new Z Top model from conics net for the price of 4100 euros VAT and taxes not included (30 % in my country) .

In my country you can't even buy vaio laptops. So judging by my example they are definitely selling it.

New Z is probably one of the top selling model of vaio laptops. Reason for this is that currently there is no laptop like Z on the market. If you ask me they are not selling it enough considering what they manage to built

Sony's marketing team is probably thinking exactly like you regarding going Apple way This only make sense if you are targeting same marketing like apple and you are producing inferior products. Your best bet is to get some of of the apple customers by lower price of your products. If you really want to beet Apple marketing machine with same product like they have you will need to work long and hard on it.

Sony don't need that. They can build there own customer base. Fore example I am one of those guys that will never consider Apple laptop simply because I can't do my work on it. On the other hand vaio Z is exactly what I need.

As C# freelancer developer, consultant (moving around a lot) :

1. I am not bound to office so I want to be able to work anywhere.

2. I need to run Visual Studio and data base server on my machine.

3. VMWare to simulate different windows environments. This time around Sony decide to allow us to enable VT in BIOS .

4. Sometimes I like to play games while staying in a hotel (RPGs are kind I like).

So as you can see to me Z is not just cool laptop. It can really use it to it's full potential. Problem is Sony don't see users like me and I bet there are many professionals there (not just developers) that are not company executives and willing to shell out money for portability and power Z has to offer.

 

If the palmrests you guys are whining about are anything like on my CW, then it's a VERY durable and scratch-resistant plastic. And from looking at the gallery on the Z from SonyStyle, personally it looks awesome! But then everybody has their own personal taste...