USB 3.0 hub won't show up on USB 3.0 ExpressCard on Z1..

Well, why?

Tried two usb hubs now and it won't work, but the minute i plug it into one of the native usb 2.0 ports on the z1 the hub works. The hub is self powered, and I also have gotten a USB 3.0 Y-cable with it, which also doesn't work.


ExpressCard in question here is AKE 5Gbps USB 3.0 ExpressCard (without the dc-in power hole).... using some Fresco Logic xHCI FL1000 driver..

Items in question --

http://www.amazon.com/J-Tech-Digital-SuperSpeed-Backward-Compatible/dp/B004WM36WG

Amazon.com: AKE 5Gbps BC618 34mm 54mm 1 Port Express USB 3.0 Card: Everything Else

Amazon.com: Seagate Freeagent Goflex USB 2.0 Ultra-portable External Hard Drive Kit and USB 3.0 Adapter: Electronics

 

I'm pretty sure the AKE does not have enough power to play through a hub. Pyro is the Z1 expert on EC USB3 and eSATA cards. There is a pretty long running thread on the subject, but I can't seem to find it. Either Google it or go back a few pages. Seems to me the last entry was about a month ago. Let us know if you get it working - with the AKE or another card.

Oh, one more thing, I got an IOGEAR card that itself is a two-USB3 hub. Sticks way out the side and requires an included power supply, but that might add enough power to get your hub working. At a minimum, it will add a second port for you, though I found it needs the DC power supply and that's a hassle too.

 

Hmm, why is it that even though the hub is powered, that it won't work through the expresscard slot, but only a native usb 2.0 slot?

am i not supplying power to devices through the external power on the hub? not even a micro 8gb chewing gum stick is showing up

i've already ordered a startech.com powered usb 3.0 expresscard. i will update on if that one solves the problem... should get that in a day or two.



does anyone have a USB 3.0 ExpressCard that can see a usb3.0 hub? Putting a single device directly into it (EC slot) works though (with use of the y-cable to supply power).
for some reason i think this AKE can't see usb3.0 hubs or something, but usb 2.0 hubs work. ?

 

This is something of series of educated guess, but I think your issue is explained by one or more of thiese:

1) The power running to the EC slot may be less than the native usb2 ports
2) the AKE card may itself act as a resistor to reduce the output voltage or wattage vs. what the EC sends to it. Powering the EC card may make up for the loss, and then some.
3) Too lazy to look it up, but USB3 ports themselves may require more power than USB2 and since the EC interface is a USB2 bus, it barely supplies enough power to run one USB3 portable drive, much less a hub with multiple drives. Don't know why it would not even recognize the USB3 hub, but power seems to be the driver in short supply here
4) USB3 hubs may require more power than USB2 hubs, hence the need for the power supply to the EC card to supply enough power to reach/recognize/drive the USB3 hub

The above comes from a combination of my knowledge (limited) common sense (not sure I have much of that either!) and the experience I have had with a 2-port USB3 hub EC card, which could not power my portable drive without connecting the DC power supply to the card or a y-connected USB2 port helper (documentation says you "may or may not" need DC power to drive one or two USB3 devices). Unless this 2-port hub is a bad product (uses NEC controller, which I think is considered ok), this tells me that even to drive one port in use and one open port, extra power is needed.

Did you have a look at the rather large existing thread on this? May well have clues.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/513653-esata-vpc-z-s-y-series-esata-expresscard-review.html

Secondary thread, not as much info, but worth a look

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/615590-vaio-vpcz12ahx-xq-usb-3-0-a.html

 

Hey. I looked at the threads already, that's how i ended up buying a USB 3.0 expresscard. I am getting the startech one so hopefully that fixes the problem.

I think something is acting up strangely with this expresscard card, driver, or interface... i just noticed when i came back to unlock my computer my mouse was skipping positions, and every single thing was acting like a pentium One 100 mhz processor. basically like running windows vista inside dosbox on a nokia n95. but the minute i eject the expresscard, every thing went back to full speed. i kept doing this to confirm that once the expresscard is in there it's slowing down my computer to a crawl. i then launched task manager to see if a program is executing but nothing is showing up as taking cpu cycles.. but the system itself gets very choppy. i am just going to ditch this card right out the window right about now =(

ever had a similar situation? it will not stop doing that till i reboot..

is this card yours?
IOGEAR - GEU302 - SuperSpeed USB 3.0 ExpressCard that's real hefty..

thats why i stuck to the smaller 'flush-fit' ones but i'm not sure if these are inferior to the bigger ones as a result.. the one i am getting is here;
USB 3.0 ExpressCard - Flush Mount | StarTech.com Global

it's flush-mount single port but also has a dc in port to supply up to 850mA of current. the spec sheet says that it can also go up to 5 Gbps if used with an ExpressCard 2.0 host.
but the threads on this forum seems to indicate that the Z1 is internally connected to a PCIe x1 bus ... so i guess i'm loosing some of it's abilities right off the bat as well

 

Hey. scrap everything i just said.. I took the card out and bent it in all directions and now it works. i think this ake card isn't very sturdy. It even detected the hub! The only problem I am having is my Seagate Freeagent 1tb external drive never ever shows up when i's on a usb 3.0 hub connected over the expresscard.
but will show up when connected on a usb 2.0 hub over the same situation. usb3.0 hub couldnt possibly be needing that much power that it saps all out of the hub.. the drive is spinnng up just fine, i could hear it .so i don't think it has anything to do with power, according to the specs is shows it only needs 500 mA or power, and my hubs are self powered i really raeally doubt it has anything to do with power, i might have to question seagate about this

 

Sorry I'm too lazy to paste the questions you asked but:

1) Yes, that is the honkin huge 2-usb3 port EC hub I have (but rarely use!). I normally keep the AKE that you have in the slot. Works like a charm on one USB3 drive, but never tried it with a hub connected to a USB3 drive (have used it with a USB2 hub connected to several USB2 drives and had same result as you. If power requirements/supply is not the reason you can't power a drive connected to a USB3 hub, but can power that same drive connected directly to the AKE card...I dunno what else it can be. Just basic electronics says that whenever you introduce a splitter of any kind (which is what a "hub" is in this case), there is a loss of power, signal, gain, etc, and you need an amp or repeater (which is a kind of amp) to power things on the other end of the splitter, or else their performance is degraded.

Glad at least you took care of the EC card from hell that ate your computer's performance!

 

thanks mate.. will update when i get the new one to see how this pans out..
cheers

 

Alright I got the StarTech ExpressCard ... this one is working quite fine. It detected the usb 3.0 hub and worked through it quite well.
It's using the NEC chipset, using Renasas drivers or something like that.

It's alot more sturdy than the AKE because it has the little power port, but it's a tiny dc-plug-in connector, but to my suprise it doesn't come with a power adapter, as the other end of that dc-in plug goes into another usb port.. first time i'm seeing such a conector.

I also did not have to crimp anything like I did with the AKE in order to fit, this one worked just flawlessly. Also came in a much bigger box the ake came in like a cheap toy cardboard excuse of a box =\

Will update this thread with pictures.

 

Comparison to the this AKE, the Startech is sturdier in the face because it has more metal to support it.



Full package, Driver CD, Express Card, 54mm EC Adapter, DC plug to USB power, manual.



Device manager



Speeds obtained on Seagate FreeAgent GoFlex 1TB USB 3.0 External HDD.



That's as fast as i've ever seen this drive go anyway.



This little tool/program is installed with the drivers.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

Great news. Care to share where you purchased the Startech? Also, are u saying it recognized your hub without having the aux power connected? Still doesn't stick out any more than the AKE? Also, I take it it ran with the drivers included, (which the AKE does not) or did you have to download them from the Startech site?

 

Bought it on amazon for $38 ...
Amazon.com: 1 Port Flush Mount ExpressCard SuperSpeed USB 3.0 Card Adapter: Electronics

Yeah it recognized the hub right away with the drivers from Startech.com site. I never use the included dvds anyway (who does?) Getting the drivers for all their products is easy. couldn't say the same for the AKE.

Exact same dimensions as the AKE...no change there... minus maybe a few cosmetic changes on the front and side, since this one can take a 54mm shim to fit in bigger slots as in the previous pictures

I like the fact that it comes with the dc-pin hole to usb cable, so i just sacrifice the port next to it and i get up to 850 mA of power to use for usb devices.. can power a hub, an external hd and a small flash drive with that... and it doesn't take up any ac adapter space or extensions limits it's a short cable i just wire tied it up and it's not a nuisance

also i didn't have to crimp the back like the AKE for it to fit in the EC slot, neither does the front come loose and need squeezing inwards like on the AKE because this one is much more solid in the frontal area due to extra metal sheeting.

overall i approve this product since it also claims to provide true 5gbps if used in a EC 2.0 slot.

 

I just realised I didn't put a in-laptop picture here, but yes as mentioned it's the exact same dimensions as the AKE card, so it sticks out a tiny amount. I don't think you can get any card that is going to not stick out of the vaio z1, i guess because the Z's carriage for the expresscard slot is simply not as deep as the specification for an expresscard 3/4 device.

 

Didn't notice this before, but the 1mb random read/write speeds are a little hard to fathom, given that the Z's SSD only does 15-50 mb/s random read/write on CDM. Is it that much faster with a 1MB read vs. 4k with CDM?

 

Best to just get AIDA64 and test out your hardware.. As CDM access the partition, and aida64 access the disk directly, it forgoes any performance penalty. And they're both different programs entirely so it might be using different algorithms. none of these benchmark tools are ever the same....

 

So true. The only reason I tend to use CDM, with all it's naysayers and apparent inconsistencies, is it's pretty much the only disk benchmark people post for comparison purposes. Have you by any chance run AIDA64 on your SSD?

 

Yes... It tops out at about 330 MB/s read with 32K (the best block size for it's setup)... in random/linear reads.. and over 5,200 MB/s in buffered reads (limited by some system interface - ram?).....
Sorry I can't do write tests with aida64 as it wipes the entire disk which is impossible to do as well

 

OH AM. By the way. I got this to work right now. Here's how i did it.
you just plug your usb 3.0 hub in first.. with maybe some other devices on it, then you plug in your usb 3.0 hdd to the hub (make sure it's connected on the device side first, then the hub). and that's it. you will hear the vista/7 device recognition sound based on your theme and then see your drive in explorer.

 

Would you please clarify this statement in parenthesis: "make sure it's connected on the device side first, then the hub." I thought you were saying, first plug the hub into the EC Usb3 port, then plug some non-HDs into the hub, then plug the Usb 3 HD into the hub. What does it mean to connect the HD "on the device side first" mean?

 

actually no... forget all that. right now it just works. I have no idea why it wasn't working before, but it could be that some updated drivers for windows may have been installed for something..

it works everytime now.

Well that's just good news.

Speeds however appear to be taking a small hit (as other devices share the bus)..... from 83 Mb/s down to about 78 mb/s .

 

right now, it's NOT WORKING yet again. And I can't get it to work, but REST ASSURED that i did get it to work when I told you so. SO FOR SOmE REASON this CRAP is PISSING ME OFF

 

Sorry for your troubles. These cards are not that well made. Perhaps try replacing?

 

I installed the Startech USB 3.0 ExpressCard on my VPCZ1 with Windows 8 Pro and works like a charm!

Before plugging it in I installed the drivers from the Startech website and then it was just plug&play! Thanks for letting me know it existed!

Just a stupid question: keeping the card plugged in doesn't use any battery unless I plug something in it, right?

 

i dont think power will be draw. such devices not enable when sleep. try to charge phone with its usb port to see if it give power

 

Actually it does charge the phone.

Also, I noticed that the transfer speed (with a Seagate GoFlex Slim USB 3.0) is about 75MB/s, regardless if use the other USB power cable or not.

 

well then it might be taking some power, maybe a trickle just being there, and alot more if something is plugged into one of the ports that is taking power like
charging.

the speed of the express card slot is much faster than 75mb/s, i've seen up to 120 MB/s with usb 3.0 flash drive i have from lexar.
it's noticably slower than a desktop or native usb 3.0 slot because the Z is using expresscard 1.0 not 2.0 so it's only 2.5 gbps not 5 gbps. and even so, it might
be even slower than that depending on what internal circuirtly its routed through. but it's definately faster than what you seeing with that external hard drive.


that's wierd. the usb power cable extra (>300 mw) actually enables my lexar flash drive to see the full speed. otherwise it tops out at 79 mb/s in reads.