VAIO Z worth it, despite "potentially defective" GPU?

I was really looking forward to getting the Sony Z, thinking that the nVidia 9300m GS wasn't affected.
It turns out that the 9300m's core is based on the G84 core which is defective

Now I'm no longer sure if I want a Sony Z :/
There aren't any really good competitors either.
(T400 is much heavier, Dell E6400's GPU may be based off the same core, Vaio SR has bad battery life...)

What do you guys think?
Is the Sony Z worth the risk? (I do plan to play games on it...)

 

You said you're a college student earlier in another thread. You also said you played games.

If I were you, and money was also a factor, I'd get the SR with the Ati card. Better safe then sorry right? It's got almost the same footprint for a lot less money. The Ati card is also better statistically for games.

I'm willing to give the Z a chance, and hope it really is based on the G98 core which I hope is not a rehash G86 core.

The 8400m GS was a 16 stream processor GPU and the 9300m GS is a 8 stream processor GPU, so I'm hoping the cores really aren't a rehash. Someone has to be the guinea pig...lol

 

As far as I know the G84 cores may possibly be defective. That's something else than saying it is defective in my book.

I would wait a while, see what happens in all the reviews and with users.

 

I thought there were overheating problems with G84 and G86 cores?

 

What would I be missing out on with the Sony SR?
DDR3 RAM, and a bit less weight... anything else?

 

I think it's just an unconfirmed rumour at this point that the 9000 series of cards are affected. Also, IIRC it's not so much that the cores are defective, it's the substrate materials that some of nVidia's suppliers are using, IN COMBINATION with the way some OEMs apply cooling solutions.

Basically just wait and see...

 

Wait for... our GPUs to die? I'd really rather know before I buy the notebook...
I doubt nVidia will make any statements on the issue...
Do we have any idea which suppliers are using the faulty materials?

I suppose I could just go for a Sony Z and just warranty the hell out of it? (I'd still be a bit nervous though)

 

I haven't seen any news about which suppliers are the cause...but if I hear anything I'll post it here.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/12/nvidia-g92-and-g94-gpus-failing-too/

On the upside, even if this rumour was true only the 9600 series would be affected. The GPU in the Z is the 9300m right?

 

Would I be effected much if I don't plan on playing any games with my Z except for the occasional solitaire?

 

Yeah, the Z's 9300m has the G98 core.
Someone earlier posted that it was just an nVidia renaming,
and that it's based on the 8400m's core.
I really hope they're wrong...

 

Nope, you'd be totally fine.
But then again, you wouldn't have much need of a dedicated card *shrug*
More battery life for you

 

I think the new rumor of G92/G94 core being affected has to be taken with a grain of salt -- even though the previous "rumor" by Inquirer about all G84/G86 core turned out to be quite true. Still, if you are buying a laptop now, I would recommend going with SR and an ATI card. Couple of reasons:

1. With Z being a premium business machine, you pay a premium for its quality and reliability. With a suspected defective video card, that premium you paid becomes questionable -- never a good way to spend your money.

2. To protect yourself against this possible defect, you will have to go with extended warranty, that's going to add on top of the base price of Z, which is like $400 more than SR's base price.

3. While Z has some very good features that SR doesn't have, these features are more useful in niche use than main stream use. So the added cost from 1 & 2 can hardly justify them.

Of course, if you find a deal for Z that gives you $500 off plus a free 3-year warranty, definitely jump on it, but other than that (or if you really really need one of the features in Z, like a programmer that wants 1600x900 screen) I think SR is a better value for your money for now. Come November/December, when we have more information on the affected nVidia chips and a Z refresh, it will be another story.

 

Skyshade, you couldn't have put it any better. The SR series is a very good laptop so it's hard to go wrong there. Go for the SR meteorstorm...

 

I hope they're wrong too. BTW when I said wait and see, I meant wait until we know for sure which GPUs are affected.

 

Indeed the advice from Skyshade is sound. If you need to purchase the laptop now, the SR would be the way to go meteorstorm for the reasons mentioned above. The risk of a defective card is quite real for the following reasons:

- As i mentioned before the 9 series cards are based on 8 series with a die shrink and minor additional features, nothing revolutionary.

- If indeed the article from the inquirer is proven to be true and high end 9 series cards (9800GTX, etc...)are using the weak die packaging, it is quite likely they are using it for the low end as well.

- Nvidia "claimed" that newer generation GPUs are unaffected, i.e. newer 8 series (G92 8800 GS/GT/GTS), 9 series and above. If this inquirer article proves to be true, Nvidia pretty much told a fib and their credibility is pretty much down the drain.

And roycer, if all you are planning on only playing solitaire then you can leave your Z on permanent Stamina mode (integrated graphics) and sidestep the problem completely.

 

There are some great design qualities to the Z but from a gaming point of view the ATI in the SR absolutely trumps the Nvidia 9300M. As for the optical drive - you can always add a Blu-ray drive later when the prices become more reasonable. Lack of HDMI is disappointing but other than that it's the better value for your money (right now).

 

A die shrink is nothing revolutionary but still requires substantial engineering effort. Therefore I would say it's evolutionary. I'm not 100% certain, but I would think with a core shrink, comes new packaging. (They wouldn't use the same packaging since the die area is now smaller...therefore they would probably use a different package).

Now, even if the suppliers and design were the same, no one except nVidia knows the extent of the bad packaging. The Internet has a funny way of making things seem worse than they are. Keeping that in mind, not every GPU may be affected. Just certain batches. But all of this is still unconfirmed, but I am hoping for the best.

On a more positive note, I haven't seen many complaints regarding GPU failures in VAIOs. Therefore I can speculate...maybe Sony did a top notch job on the thermal design?

The point is, everything is speculation at this point. We'll have to wait and see if the 9000 series of chips are affected.

 

I think this is an important piece of evidence.

The die packaging failure is caused by thermal cycling and, I suspect, something which was overlooked when the specifications were prepared. Some notebooks, probably due to design of the cooling system and the thermal settings in the BIOS, have proved to be more vulnerable to GPU failure. Others have few examples of GPU failure. I don't recall seeing significant problems with the SZ series which is the trend I would expect the Z to follow. Samsung have also, by good luck or good judgment, got the thermal design right.

However, time will tell.

John

 

BTW I was using my laptop today on the train, started a game (TrackMania) and smelled burning chip after a couple of minutes. Not 100% sure the smell comes from my Z11VN because I was fiddling with my mobile battery a couple of minutes before because it crashed. Both my mobile and laptop are fine at the moment but I'm really concerned I just experienced an early warning!!!

 

daneel, dont scare us like that!!

The 9300M GS is NOT defective. Its ALL speculation, and there's NO factual evidence.

AND if it is, who buys a Z without warranty? D)

 

I bought an Asus M50Sv-A1 which features a 9500m GS back in June. I gamed with that laptop all summer and it still shows no ill-effects so far.

 

I would rather go with the Lenovo U330 instead of the SR

it has an ATI GPU and hdmi output.

 

sonoritygenius: There was a strong smell of burned plastic yesterday when I was using my laptop,that's a fact. And I know what that smell is from having experienced that in the past with mobos frying due to shortcut. Fingers crossed............

 

That's the way it is.

 

Yes but on a subway with other things and possibly people?

you would be surprised what KINDS of smells there r here in NYC subways!

 

Can people with the Z post their idle temps..Mine runs at 78C on idle..i dont plan to game, just to keep the chip from burning

 

78C is quite a lot, especially for idling. I'm also considering a Z, possibly a SR because of the ATI GPU, but I really like the increased resolution of the Z.

Hoping for more temperature replies .

 

Is 78c for the cpu? Thats very high.

my 2.26ghz CPU idles around 40C.

If it for the gpu then its not too bad.