VPCZ1 (US) Lack of TPM

Hi all,

My current research shows that the VPCZ1 (US) either doesn't have a TPM, or Sony has gone to great lengths to keep us from enabling it. So far I've tried manually enabling the TPM (by setting a variable in the insyde UEFI area), and trying to get it to show in the setup menu, both attempts have failed.

The problem is the VPCZ1 was advertised with a TPM (at least when I bought it), and Sony has suddenly 'pulled it' silently.
So I'd like to:

1) Figure out if the device actually has a TPM, and enable it if it does
- Figure out why 0x68 is magically set to zero on boot
- Open the laptop and look for infineon TPM (maybe figure out where it is on european models first)

2) If it doesn't, petition against Sony for false advertising. If anyone has any screenshots still of the SonyStyle (US) site before they took off all the TPM stuff, that'd be great...
- get screenshot of sonystyle site
- get screenshot of driver page showing TPM package

So any help in any of these areas, such as the listed bullet points, it'd be great... lets get to the bottom of this!

 

I can tell you that on my Aussie model the TPM module is on the left of the WLAN socket.

 

so basically before we come to any conclusions, some brave soul has to open up their US Z and just look if the module is there.

 

The picture on the right is Zoink's US Z112, looks like the TPM module is indeed missing.

 

So, now is the time to e-mail sony and complain? =) Since the chip is clearly not there...

 

But it certainly looks like TPM can be fitted easily - there is a connector.

 

Hi All,

This is probably a really dumb/simple question - but what does TPM do? Ive looked on wiki and im still not sure.

My previous SZ had TPM - but I just thought this was to do wth the biometric reader, after reading it seems that it is more than this?

Im waiting for my new Z to be delivered and would like to take advantage of any further security options

Thanks in advance

Dan.

 

A TPM module is a hardware module that provides three significant features:
1: It contains a factory-burnt-in, unique and unreadable cryptographic key that can be used for encrypting data so it can't be decrypted on other machines even if you have the correct password.
2: It provides a small amount of tamper-proof storage for things like user-generated encryption keys, biometric data (like fingerprints) and pass phrases.
3: (Depending on the TPM module) It provides hardware assist for generating large primes which are used for keys, and can also reduce CPU usage during normal encryption/decryption.

A TPM module is expected on business class computers. To not include it only means that someone at Sony USA is counting beans, shorting their customers so they can afford to pay certain top execs huge bonuses and golf club memberships.

 

Does anyone know if the Canadian CTOs have the TPM module? Is there any way to find out other than opening up the computer?

 

At minimum I see no mention of TPM in any section of the device manager on my Canadian CTO.

 

Yes, but where to buy one?

 

I believe it is also deceiving of Sony to claim support for Windows 7 Ultimate when Bitlocker is the main advantage of Ultimate, and the lack of TPM means that Bitlocker is not fully functional.

 

Okay, I talked to Sony Support and apparently they think that the laptop is supposed to have the module as well.

user no2chem has entered room

analyst Will_ has entered room

Will_> Hi no2chem. Welcome to Sony Online Support. I’m Will. Please allow me a moment to review your concern.

Will_> Thanks for waiting, no2chem. I’ll be glad to assist you with the information about TPM.

no2chem> Sure. This model was advertised to have a TPM Module, indeed, the driver page also has the drivers for a TPM module, but there isn't one.

Will_> Have you ever changed the pre-installed Windows Operating System in the Computer?

no2chem> You can see in this picture that the module is missing http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/43/tpmg.jpg

no2chem> on all US modules

no2chem> So, my proposed resolution is that you mail me the TPM module that this laptop was advertised to have

no2chem> And,I don't think the presence of the preinstalled operating system affects the physical presence of the TPM.

Will_> Thanks for detailed ionformation, no2chem.

analyst Will_ has been temporarily disconnected. Please wait while the analyst attempts to reconnect.

We are experiencing higher than usual service times. Please wait and an analyst will be with you shortly.

analyst Will_ has entered room

Will_> Please stay online while I check this information for you.

no2chem> hm?

no2chem> okay

Will_> Thanks for waiting, no2chem.

Will_> According to the specifications available online the Computer is shipped with the Infineon TPM Professional Package.

no2chem> I know. It's not present. I'm not the only one who's opened the laptop to discover it missing

no2chem> if you can see in the picture

no2chem> the left one is a EU model, while the right on is a US model.

Will_> May I know the purchase place of the Computer?

no2chem> the US one? SonyStyle store

no2chem> in South Coast, Costa Mesa CA

no2chem> south coast Plaza*

Will_> Thanks for confirming, no2chem.

Will_> In this case, I suggest that you contact the SonyStyle store to check for the available options.

no2chem> well, apparently most US models are missing the module

no2chem> it's not somethng you can order?

no2chem> i.e., im not the only one that has had this problem.

Will_> no2chem, I am sorry in this case that the TPM Professional Package is missing.

no2chem> http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=6098536

no2chem> Well, yes, but it must be a module you can order? Obviously SonyStyle doesn't carry it

no2chem> in the store

Will_> no2chem, I saw the information on the page.

no2chem> And honestly, they'll probably point me back to you.

Will_> no2chem, I ams orry to inform you that we do not have the information regarding the missing TPM Professional Package.

no2chem> Okay, well is there another level of support that might be able to help me out?

Will_> In this case, I suggest that you contact one of our customer service representatives to discuss your concerns.

no2chem> okay, what is their number?

Will_> You can contact them at: 1-239-768-7545.

Will_> Their hours of operation are :
Monday-Friday 8:00 a.m. - 10:00 p.m,
Saturday & Sunday 9:00 a.m. - 8:00 p.m (EST).

no2chem> Okay... thank you.

Will_> They will be glad to assist you with this regard.

 

So I called the number, and the first rep hung up on me, the second one was essentially clueless, and told me to return the laptop.... So ... time to bother their "customer service" / complaint lines.

 

in the us file a bbb complaint , usually a escalation rep can help you.

 

yeah, I'm pretty familiar with BBB, California CA, FTC, etc. but usually I try to give the company a chance somewhere higher up before I move to other avenues. Besides, usually it works better for your complaint if you exhaust everything first.

I'm pretty sure we have a solid case against sony if they handle it poorly anyway. The VT Fiasco was different, it was a nonadvertised feature that was merely disabled, the TPM module ... well, it was advertised AND the hardware is missing, clear case of misrepresntation, IMO.

If I were Sony, the correct resolution is to:

1) Mail TPM modules out to VPCZ1 owners
2) Offer to install them, if necessary
3) Apologize for the mistake

But only time will tell on what Sony will do =). I don't really care _that_ much about TPM, it's really the whole principle of the matter at hand....

 

i dont think so. you can get a rep who can actually do what you want/need through the bbb.

trying to get some peon isnt going to get it to happen.

microsoft listed their dm3 with 6 hours battery then changed it to 4 hours.

within 2 days I had a escalation rep get ahold of me and we were able to resolve this.

talking to someone in india is a joke

 

It should show up under the "Security Devices" section of the Device Mangler.

 

right, after talking to someone in india that refused to transfer me, I ended up just filing the BBB complaint.

 

wow sony is saving money by making 2 different Main Boards... what a joke...

seems also when comparing my ASIAN model to the pics that there are more internal differences

wow and here was me thinking all the time that they would just build a base model and "add" the bits as required... this may also be the reason that I can easily get parts and you guys in USA cant .... seems that would suggest that Asia as a whole is a bigger overall market for sony than USA.

Also as far as i can work out the EU and ASIA targeted products are built on the the same basic design, meaning that the USA is out on its own...

 

I reckon all Z's motherboard are the same. The TPM is a module that can be added on to the motherboard.

 

The problem is sourcing it.
So it can't be found in the BIOS setup page (the default, non-hacked one)?

I'm curious if Sony did the silent pull-TPM-out-of-advertising on the older Z, or even worse, continue advertising TPM only for us older users to find there is no TPM chip.

Having an older Z, I see that in DEVICE MANAGER in Windows, it shows the TPM under SECURITY DEVICES, despite me not having enabled it in BIOS. I have since clean installed W7. I rememmber seeing an installation app in C: with the Vista installation my Z originally came with specifically for the TPM, which I never tried out but apparently allows fingerprint / password storage in it (and preboot password and fingerprint confirmation logs)... Can any new Z owner who has a older Z owner confirm whether they see TPM under DEVICE MANAGER?

So for the less confident new-Z owners here worried about Sony frauding them, rather than trying to open your machine up, check out DEVICE MANAGER. I'm certainly not hoping that it shows that TPM is there even though it isn't...

And the only good thing with Vista (or W7) Ultimate is BitLocker, which is enchanced by the TPM. I would STRONGLY suggest returning your Z if yours didn't come with one yet was advertised with it. No corporate should suck your money away giving you something worse than originally advertised. We have Google Cache, if that is required~~~

 

read carefully, one board.. there is a tpm connector present... good luck finding the module though?

nope, not even there in BIOS, not even with hacked bios.... i have no idea why sony did this, TPM is at most a $5 chip.... =/

 

This is really very interesting. I would have have thought that Sony would be more carefully & not screw up like that, given the fact that the U.S. is "generally" quite a "lawsuit trigger happy nation."

 

So not even in Device Manager?

And in line with SPEEDwithJJ...
Sony is ASKING for a class-action lawsuit from a bunch of pissed high-up corporate workers (whom I assume most Z users here are~).

 

In the UK the TPM is listed in the CTO options as coming with the fingerprint reader.

I should have arriving today a VPC-Z11X9E/B which as far as I know will have neither of those (but bigger touchpad buttons .

Do the US models without TPM have the fingerprint reader on it's own?

 

Yes, we do have the fingerprint reader. As discussed earlier, fingerprint reader and TPM don't necessarily come hand-in-hand, though you CAN store fingerprint data on the TPM.

Maybe Sony hoped that enough people wouldn't care about the TPM... and I'm sure that 90% of users won't even know it's missing... The other 10% though....

 

Just confirming. ALL Oceania models come advertised with TPM along with the fingerprint under the 'security' features list.... according to their specs page. Well, if the Aussie member here (gah, kiwi rival here) in the first few posts has it, I would assume the new Zs in Oceania all come with it.

 

I think the only place to source these modules is Sony, because TPM chip is coming on a small custom-PCB.

We just need to figure out a part number for the TPM.

When I get my Lenovo slim DVD->HDD adapter to fit in my Z, I will also try to remove the TPM chip and see if there is any part nr. on it.

If there is a part # you should be able to order it from Sony.

Also, you can definitely go via. complaints route, especially if those U.S. models were previously advertised as TPM-capable.

 

With the way Sony USA is operating, resellers like Conics and Dynamism seem more attractive every day. So does jumping brands altogether.

Anyhow, the reason why this is on a module is simple: When repairing a computer, and the motherboard is replaced, the user can lose access to all encrypted data unless the TPM chip is brought over to the new board. It's not because it's to be considered an optional component that bean counters can save a few bucks on by omitting -- those that use the TPM chip, really depend on it. Sure, much like the ExpressCard34 slot, most people will never use it, but that doesn't mean that dropping it to save a buck is a smart career move for whoever decided this.

 

no2chem, I am in the same boat regarding the USA model. I even worked with psyq321 to see what we could do.

I am 99% sure the chip is missing period.

This code in the BIOS is the check for TPM:

Opcode 0x22 (6) 01 00 01 00
Text: 'TPM State','Not Installed' Flags:0x0 Key:0x0

When I sent my ROM dump to psych he tried on his notebook that does have TPM and the screen in "Security" did appear which basically confirms that Opcode 0x22 does do the check against hardware. A bit of speculation as you know but the evidence is there.

I 100% agree with when you state that TPM was advertised when I ordered it as well. I can also confirm that any debates about TPM being enabled only in AHCI mode is completely false. TPM will work with RAID.

Check this out. There is the package for the driver and software. If you checkout the applicable models it is applicable across the entire VPCZ1 line. This file has been on their site since 01/19/2010. Being a "geek" that software alone would tell me that the TPM module is installed not to mention every single Z model came with it standard including the previous SZ. What am I to believe?

I even called Sony support and their own people could not "figure out" how to enable it and even suggested that I have the laptop repaired which shows that even they believe it should have it installed.

I finally reached a Tier 3 person who was adept, and he was surprised. He did believe that if it was not in the BIOS it did not come with it.

Seriously though... What is the point of even having Windows 7 Ultimate on this machine... what is the point of shipping it with no other available option? The SonyStyle blogged says that this model has " maxed out specs".

I'm not even going to bring the whole "turn-by-turn" navigation with Google maps.... Didn't know the Z had the Andriod OS on it...

I have seriously debated returning the laptop as defective. Though I welcome your methods much more! 100% support it!

.dj

 

Multilingual support, for one.

Of course, this might be a moot point for US models, if there's any truth to the stereotype:
What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks three or more languages? Multilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks one language? American.

 

For multiple languages definitely...

Can also run "dism /online /add-package /packagepath:<drive letter>:\langpacks\nl-nl\lp.cab" on any Windows 7 version and install them as well... Just need to get your hands on them..

 

Well, we already confirmed, a while back, that the TPM isn't physically there anymore. You can file a complaint with the BBB. I'm sure the more complaints we send, the better.

 

Perhaps you should read first... mine has the TPM ... we have no problem getting any sony parts straight from Sony.. as this market is about ~6Billion big...read ROW (Rest Of the World).... and they need to keep us happy

Strange that Sony would make one only for NA .... and then also remove stuff they are supplying to ROW... guess they have to get the cost down or no one will buy

FYI the asian + european + pacific rim, models appear only to differ on the keyboard's... looks like the North American market is a niche market in comparison for sony..

 

Actually this is not always true. I have experience with purchasing few Sony models from Japan (latest was TZ) and always, Japan has ALL options and ALL available for configuration. And, even better still, prices are usually quite lower compared to EMEA markets.

For example, in Japan you have an option to choose "glossy" premium Carbon in CTO, which is reserved for "Signature" series in U.S. and not even available in Europe for VPC-Z11. Same goes for other stuff - sometimes the configuration options available in Japan are not even available elsewhere. I still remember all crazy TZ lid designs... but that was something I'd pass, I guess Sony also figured out it did not make sense to offer those outside Japan

After Japan, situation varies depending on the model - sometimes USA gets more than EMEA, and vice versa.

Note that Sony is getting less money per unit with USA sales because of weaker $$$ - in Europe we are getting ripped off, e.g. I paid my CTO Z $3600, while the same Z in the USA is $2700-2800 - I guess this might be the motivation for those cuts, but TPM is a totally insane choice to cut.

On the other hand, USA is the very strong market... usually this negates the lower price - it has worked for cars for decades.

 

You are referring to this thread when you say "a while back" correct?

 

I noticed that as well. Asiapac keyboards have the page up + down, home, etc. as separate keys on the right side. I wonder if you had an Asiapac model and ordered a NA keyboard if it would have them as separate keys as well.

 

Hence we have crappy American cars.

Seriously though, I think our market is much more about price than it is about quality. Our Z is not made in Japan... made in the USA with foreign components. In a way we do get what we "pay" for more often than not in our market..

 

Haha, what if the Z sold in the US is shipped from Japan completely made, and they just take out the TPM module at some plant in the US before selling it, but because they do this final modification in the US, the place of final assembly is now considered to be the US for these machines and so the machines become "made in the USA with foreign components"...

 

FYI, there are 4 models (pre-config) sold in the U.S. market that are in fact assembled in Japan. They are:

VPCZ112GX/S
VPCZ114GX/S
VPCZ116GX/S
VPCZ118GX/S

 

I think you're thinking of models *other* than the Z.

 

Now that is an interesting thought. I suppose we will never know exactly what "Made in USA with foreign components" means. Parts could come direct from China or Taiwan and assembled in the USA. Could be that nothing is from Japan at all.

Maybe they all come Japan already built and when they put the Verizon sticker on it then it becomes Made in USA.

 

Interesting and I stand corrected if this is the case. Yours says this on the bottom?

I could have sworn that I saw a picture of a Kanji keyboard that had them in another thread.

 

And interestingly, that was the case for the original Z that Zoinks bought in the Sony Style store I believe.

And as we know, it didn't have the TPM in there either...

 

I hear what you say, but for the most part the CTO is only for specific markets where they need to be different at the moment i'm only aware of CTO in

Main land EU
Japan
USA
Canada

Japan will and should be an exception here as they are so close to the source that can have small production "runs" offering market specials and as they are close to the source have all "Options" available for CTO build, don't forget in all other markets the local "Sony" need to buy these from the "Mother"

In the rest of Asia Pac no such thing exists ! which is by far the most populous area in the world, here they have a multitude of models for each series, which is sometimes a bit of a pain as the combinations are strange

on the previous SR you could only get HDMI on the High end model for the first 2 cycles, then it became standard, that said HDMI is still a gimmick for most of the region as cheap analogue still rules even from DSB.

It worked for cars as they kept the quality to a minimum, and went more on design and "Buy American" something that the other manufactures taught them a lesson in, simply by Offering better quality and Features , and setting up plants in the USA

As some one else put it , you get for what you pay for , as there is no such thing as a free lunch, we see here on NBR price comparisons all the time which really are moot points as the higher prices usually come with better components and better service, and I don't mean the american trait of buying (never actually wanting it) and returning it.. as this also costs money and the people who are paying are all the consumers.. but thats another story

I believe for economies of scale that the computers are all built in a central location (Japan, Thailand, China) , in lots per destination market, then shipped in bulk to that market, where if at all (CTO) they are finished with the final configuration if required.

Makes no sense for sony to have multipul assembly lines running as they would need to ship the "Loose/unfinished" components around the world, which would increase both the cost and reduce their ability to maintain Quality and implement in line improvements in the manufacturing. Just think of the nightmare of how may "Top Covers" they would have around the world as "unused components" if the decided to make a change.

I am sure that the term "Assembled in USA" is a clue here, something also that the car industry did for years they called in "Complete Knock Down"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complete_knock_down

Volvos were pre-built in the EU and shipped to be finished and assembled for the North American market to Canada and USA for final assembly (Tax Reasons), 1 Kit = 1 Car, where by they included locally sourced items, which were sometimes of a cheaper quality to circumvent import taxes or gain favour with governments and also to reduce the CTO shipping time. Most of the Korean CAR manufactures in the EU still do this today (if the car is built in Korea) where bits are added in the free port based on customers request...

 

The only reason Canada gets CTO is because we tag onto the US system. At 10% the market size of the US, we'd otherwise be of no interest to Sony for such a thing.

Although I was a little bit surprised to find that we do get customized paperwork and even a Canadian-specific OS image.

 

There is CTO in China.

 

Cool.. guess I miss that one due to not speaking CN... and most pages there are a) slow and b)only in CN, I sometimes have a look at the HK pages for reference, but they dont (on the english) part offer CTO as far as I remember

 

Hong Kong unfortunately does not offer CTO. It would be awesome if they did though...