VPCZ11 custom SSD drive problem figured out! (maybe...)

OK, i tore down my brand new z112gx, googled for a week, and figured out what the deal is with these proprietary drives.
First off the dimensions are 2 inches wide (.1 inch thinner then a standard 1.8 SSD x 3.5 inches long which is 3/4 inch longer. The length means extra room and the width is close enough, it might actually be able to be crammed in.
The bigger problem is the ZIF connected FPC-202 sata ribbon cable (sony p/n-1-881-491-12). This is a non-standard ZIF sata connection made especially for sony by samsung. The connector on the drvie side is definitely not standard. the connector on the motherboard MIGHT be standard size, but might not be standard pinout, its too hard to tell with these types of cables (for me anyway).
The realization was, the "special form factor, actually just lookes like ANY SSD without the metal outer shell used to create the 2.5 inch form factor.
Also, samnsung made these cables for sony specifically, which means they both very likely have sony custom zif connector to standard zif connector ribbon, as well as a samsung custom ZIF connector to standard ZIF connector ribbon.
The ribbon cables are actually FPC cables (flat printed circuit or something like that). But the industry term is an "FPC [ribbon] cable" (i.e. sony labels them FPC-202, FPC-37.
Samsung could possibly be able to provide an FPC-xx cable extension that would match the ssd side pinout and convert it to a standard ZIF interface.
Sony might also have a sony type conntecter FPC ribbon that ends in a standard, ZIF connection FPC ribbon. I would imagine samsung would be more forthcoming about this then sony, so i am goin to try them first.
BTW, if anyone knows where i can find a service manual for a vgn-Z899, i will be able to determine much more. A service manual tho, not a user guide, Something that includes a parts diagrams/part numbers
If anyone can help me with any of these tasks, i will put the investment into the standard ZIF 1.8" deive and neccesary parts to see if it will work
jd.

 

Good observations, ilikepancakes. I fully support your "quest" . If you able to do so it could potentially solve the issue of ssd performance degradation.

BTW, it's a custom FPC cable (mine is FPC-209). AFAIK it has 25pins (drive-side) of which 13pins for data (5 grounds, 4 receive and 4 transmit channels to communicate with 2 sides of the SSD) and 6pins for power. We need a cable that can link these pins to a normal sata connector.

 

does this cable basically have 4 SATA channels integrated into one cable? would be nice to have the other channels free so I can put hard drives where the optical bay is... Any idea on the pinouts? ... I'm sure I could get a custom Flex cable made...

 

It has 8 transmit and receive channels (4 go to one side of the SSD and the rest to the other side) plus ground channels. I am no expert in hardware - can someone confirm this please? TIA

 

I thought the fact that Sony is using proprietary SSD (sizes, connecting cables, etc.) has been discussed in other threads in this forum. No?

That can be found on one of the sticky threads at the top of the Sony section of NBR, but to help you out:

http://www.4shared.com/file/80881144/84435c23/Vgn_z_e.html

 

yeah, i've been reading the threads, but they are mostly based on conjecture, not ppl opening their Z's up and looking to see what actually is going on in their. Also the threads tend to lose focus or have multiple sub-topics. The purpose of this thread is to find a way to fit a STANDARD 1.8 SSD, connect it to the ZIF connector on the board, and still have a friggin DVD drive.
I know i could put a hard drive in the optical drive area. I actually have a lenovo ultrabay on order to do just that. As far as I am concerned, thats a half-assed way to manufactur a laptop, especially since this all could be avoided by sony using a standard sata connector AND making this friggin model 1/2'' wider (deeper, bigger, however you want to think about) Then everything would work just fine.
In 27 years involved in computing, i have never seen a mainstream laptop without a replaceable harddrive.
It was a jackass thing for them to do, basically sayin "EFF YOU" to their customers.

 

ozbimmer,
thats EXACTLY whats needed. unfortunately, what we also need is for someone to make one available to the general public, because i can guaruntee that the cable actually exists. It would be necessary in order to coordinate manufacturing between samsung and sony.
BTW, sorry for the typos n ish, im late for work so im in a rush

 

btw, i forgot to mention earlier, if anyone has any suggestions i haven't thought of, I got mine at best buy with the good warranty. So I am more then happy to take a dremel to the circuit board (for example), because i'll just return it and get a new one, lol

booyah with the triple post =)

 

So you are thinking of using a standard 1.8" SSD by connecting it to the ZIF connector on the motherboard.

AFAIK the connector has 60pins. However not all pins are used.



This picture shows the connector on the ssd.



The custom FPC would look like this. It doesn't need to split out into 2 if only 1 SSD is used.

 

[Thinking aloud]
So one of the steps for reverse-engineering would be to figure out the signal, power, earth pins. Power & earth seem easiest via voltmeter. Signal would be harder since the width is likely to be small, easiest caught on some like oscilloscope
[/Thinking aloud]

Btw, what's the precise dimensions of the space where the SSD sits? I bought this hardware RAID controller, it's about the size of a complete 1.8" drive and I'm hoping it'll fit...

 

Not sure if this has been mentioned but it's an interesting find.

See pic below - in the HDD version of the Z11, the hard disk is linked via a FPC to the connector that connects the SSD RAID module in the SSD/ODD version. Note that the SSD tray is empty (obviously).



Now if you twist the FPC carefully the SATA connector could be moved to the SSD tray area.

A 1.8" SSD (circuit board only) could fit (barely and at an angle) in the SSD tray if the surrounding plastic retainer of the tray is removed.

This means it's possible to attach a normal 1.8" SSD to the Z if such FPC is used.



Good news is that the FPC has a part number (A-1769-470-A) (#513 in the diagram above). Bad news is that it's not available in the US and I don't know where to source VAIO parts elsewhere. I assume the countries that sell the HDD version might have the relevant part.

 

If we're still using the same cable, it means we can still only attach one HDD/SSD to the end. Which means that the HDD, if still present, cannot be used. So, why not use that HDD space for placing the SSD, rather than twisting the cable?

I think having a bare 1.8" SSD fitting in that space is useful if the length of the generic SSD is shorter than the Sony SSD, which means there's some space left over in there, which means we can stick with the cable that came with the laptop, and fashion some sort of adapter from that cable to the generic SSD's connector. That is if we can figure out the pin-out configuration

 

The plan is to use a generic SSD in the SSD tray and a blu-ray drive in the optical drive bay. That's why the twisting.

You are correct about the adapter. This one should work but just a bit bulky.

 

I have a bunch of SSDs, including some using what I think was a ZIF-40 connector. I had upgraded an iPod and a Zune from platter based to SSD with them.

I've pulled the Z apart and looked at it all, though I didn't consider replacing the 256GB Z's SSD with a 32GB 1.8" drive

I'm more interested in swapping my FPC for the FPC that is used in the multi-drive Z, and then buying a second 256GB (128x2) module. Anyone know if the parts are commercially available?

I DO agree that the proprietary solution employed here is crap. I'm pissed that I can't just swap the drive and boot off two different drives.

 

Fair enough. Although you can get a larger capacity 1.8" SSD (say 256GB).

If I can get the FPC and the drive I don't mind selling my 256GB RAID (64GBx4) to you Wait a minute do you have the HDD version of the Z?

 

Okay maybe I'm confused There are two kinds of Sony cables I know of:

1. For the HDD model: the cable leads only to the HDD/optical drive slot, and has only 1 SATA port on it. That's the cable shown in the picture above, and I was assuming you were talking about twisting that. Problem is, since it only has one SATA port, it's rather hard to add the blu-ray drive. The good news is that the pin-out config at the HDD end is standardized, and the adapter above can be used (assuming we're still sticking a 1.8" in the HDD/optical drive space.

2. For the SDD/optical drive model: the cable splits into the Sony SSD and the optical drive. The connector at the Sony SSD is likely to be proprietary, so the adapter above may not work (the SATA connector part is also invalid). I think preliminary adapters would need to be self-built...

I bought this:



I hope it fits in the Sony SSD space, otherwise I think there's space in the HDD/optical drive area if I use 1.8" SSDs... The host controller's on its way, and the soldering station has also been set up... All I need is the laptop *sigh*

You can replace them with two 160GB Intel X-18Ms, if the bare drives fit

 

TofuTurkey,

I think I should clarify: There are 2 SATA ports on the Z motherboard. On the HDD version only SATA1 is used and the other empty. On the SSD/ODD version both are used (SATA1 to SSD and SATA2 to ODD).

BTW may I ask what are you going to do with the host controller in the picture?

 

Agree with number of SATA ports

That's the RAID controller (uses the Silicon Image 4276 chip I believe, quite old), it needs to be connected to a host controller (for initial configuration only, I think). I've got the HDD version, so only 1 SATA port like you mentioned. The Intel ICH8 chip on the board doesn't support port multiplying, which means we can't have two SATA devices sharing the same channel. So the RAID controller is there to make the two drives look like one. And also make things faster I'm also thinking of coming up with something that can help HDDErasing the SSDs more convenient, but haven't gotten that far yet (perhaps stick an eSATA port around where the SIM slot is).

I've got quite a bit of free space in my Z (if it does indeed one day arrive): the Sony SSD, HDD / optical drive and WWAN card spaces are free. I strongly feel like I should make use of them If the RAID plan doesn't work, at least I can still use the board to RAID my 2.5" HDDs lying around

 

Very interesting project. I think it's highly doable.

So basically the connections are:
Sony Host Controller - via original FPC - Hardware RAID Port Multiplier Bridge - 2 or more SSDs.

Personally I think you can do it all within the optical drive bay and the WWAN area.

 

Here is another possible solution.

looking at the pics it would appear that if you

a) get a Z with Sony SSD the DVD is attached to a different port.
b) Get a HDD version then you get a cable that goes from the connecter shown here to the HD (does not use the same port as in a))

so surely you could just get the cable for the hdd version and reuse it to attached a standard SSD in the "Sony" space and then either use the PCB from a "Caddy" to attach an additional SSD/HDD in place of the DVD, or keep the dvd where it is...

I have a HDD version and this is what I intend to do an try and coach an Intel X18m (160) into the SSD space and either keep my 500GB drive or replace with a X25 or x18 (160)... just my 10 c

 

where did you get the manual from , we can get parts over the counter at the Service Center but not the manual ..... link please

 

Not sure where it comes from. I asked a guy who sells VAIO part in the US and he shows me the diagram (not the manual).

Are you able to get the part?

 

Thanks for the kind words (no sarcasm). I know I'm being (highly) optimistic, and the consolation prize isn't that bad, but, I've had so much fun thinking about the various aspects, that if it didn't work, it'll actually s*ck quite bad We'll see...

I think with the SSD/optical drive version getting the HDD cable will work. I've been wondering if the optical drive feeds off of the same motherboard connector as the SSD, I think it does not (based on pics).

But since you have the HDD version, I think you may not have the circuit board that connects the optical drive via a micro-SATA. I guess you'll have to buy that part as well...

 

No, I have the standard US version -- but I've pulled it apart so I guess now I have as close to the HDD version as you can get without Sony parts.

The 256GB (64x4) would be a marginal speed upgrade but not a space upgrade as I currently have 256GB (128x2).

This is essentially what I've done: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=469244

 

Can you tell us where to get this adapter? How much is it?

 

Ok, Answering my own question

When google micro sata to sata adapter, you are going find a lot of it.

http://www.cpustuff.com/micro-sata-adapter-output-3.3-volts-microsata-female-to-22-pin-sata.html

 

I also have the HDD adapter. However I want to use the blu-ray drive so I am thinking of ways to accomodate BOTH SSD and ODD.

 

OZBIMMMER YOU ARE THE KING!!!
ok, in that pic. the motherboard side of the ribbon cable is IDENTICAL to the motherboard side of my SSD version. The drive side of the that ribbon cable in my SSD version is a CUSTOM msata ZIF connector.

In the picture, is the HDD side a standard 2.5 SSD sata connector, os is it the standard 1.8 SSD microsata connector. (BTW, if it hasnt been mentioned, the DVD drive connector they use is call slimsata)

I apologize if this has already been discussed, i was at work all day, and I have a little bit of a swirve on right now, so i didnt read through all the posts. I got too excited when i saw the pic and part number.

 

Glad you are happy

It's a standard SATA (not mSATA) connector.

 

I'm back in Dubai on saturday i'll go in the afternoon to the service center, nice guy there has a DELL running some workshop system they have we scan through the thing and select, if they have the part there ...take away... a few parts they had to order for me from Japan that takes 10 days..


I'll get back to you... if you have quick access can you find out the numbers for the whole "Sony" SSD assembly and the numbers for the original DVD/Blue rays... and the TMP module, ill get quotes and post the costs here

 

Thanks. Let us know the good news

Will try to find out the part numbers.

 

P/N

DVD Drive: A1769476A
Blu-ray Drive: Not Found
SSD (64GBx4): 185757611
SSD (128GBx4): 185757711
SSD FPC cable: 188149212
Sorry can't find the TPM P/N

BTW could you please double check the P/N of the above components when you speak to your Sony service provider?

 

well i found a temp solution, not even that bad of one, first there is this for only $42.00:
http://newmodeus.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_39&products_id=293
then this for a fall back if the 1.8" just simply wont fit:
http://newmodeus.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=17&products_id=243

and for $17.99, u can get this enclosure for the DVD drive that was removed, so at least it can still be used when needed, just connect with the USB cable that powers it as well.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817801052&cm_re=Drive_Adapters-_-17-801-052-_-Product
i have all that on order, but i'd still like to have it right.
When i get my SSD im gonna remove the outer case, and i'll will bet it will fit.
i may have even got a line on that ribbon cable that is the key to the whole endeavor. unfortunately sony uk is 7 hours ahead of me, so its hard for me to catch them when they are open.
BTW, if anyone can find the link to order that ribbon cable that comes with the HDD models, let me know, because i have an address i can have it shipped to overseas, who can then ship it here.

 

Thanks for the links, ilikepancakes.

I have decided to go down the Sony SSD/Generic SSD combo pathway and not using the internal optical drive. I already have the adapter but not the SSD yet.

 

PS, I have to give much credit to ZoinksS2k, since he was the source of inspiration (for me at least) for the ultrabay type solution

 

Unfortunately

This is the wrong adapter. There are two "mini" SATA standards:

1. Micro SATA - which is used for 1.8" HDDs etc, and above pic. is that one
2. Slimline SATA - - used in laptops for slim DVD/BD drives

Slimline SATA has different pinout (see pic above) - and it uses 5V, not 3.3V like MicroSATA does!!! Also, physical connector is different, so it is impossible to use one instead of other.

So, please do not buy the Micro SATA adapter - it will not work.

Furthermore, even simple Slimline SATA adapter cable like the one pictured above will not work in the new Z - I have a hand-made adapter for old Z, where I used the similar cable, and basically just shortened the wires (and replaced Molex with SATA power connector, of course).

This worked on Old Z - but it does not work on the new Z (voltage on the SATA power pins is just 1V) - it looks like there needs to be more electronics that perform some more functions (maybe power-management / spin-up related)

the ONLY solution that work on the new Z is the Lenovo Ultrabay Adapter (or, ordering the original Sony bay adapter)! - it has much more than simple cable re-routing it appears, and this might be the reason why it works, while the simple cable solution doesn't.

 

There's another solution. You can use the SATA cable here in the pic (the one connects the motherboard to the HDD)



I understand the SATA connector at the HDD end is micro SATA.

 

Hmm - could be, but it is not really clear from the service manual.

But, if you have a DVD model, connector to the DVD is definitely slimline SATA.

So the possibilities are following:

1. If you have DVD model --> get a Lenovo Ultra Bay adapter, and fit another SSD or HDD instead of the DVD drive. Here, custom cabling won't work (I tried)

2. If you have a HDD model and want to use another drive on top of one that is in the bay... hmm, I guess you could try ordering >dvd< cable and connect it to the unused DVD connector on the motherboard, and extending it with slimlineSATA cabling - but then, the problem is that 1.8" drives ask for 3.3 V and that voltage might not be available from the DVD SATA connector. Furthermore, all 1.8" drives that could be fitted in the original SSD space are MicroSATA anyway.

What else would you want to do with that HDD (presumably Micro SATA) cable?

 

I think your reasoning is correct. If a HDD/SDD in the optical drive bay is needed, there's really no point to get such cable as the Ultrabay adapter would suffice.

 

Have you seen this official Sony parts site? https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/sony-parts.aspx

Putting in VPCZ11 in the "Model prefix starts with" zone gets some of the same info and 2 pages of more parts for the Z models listed as well.

There are other SSD part numbers: 185757911 (MMDPE28GDDXP-MVB) and 185757811 (MMCRE64GDDXP-MVB), different from the 185757611 (MMCRE28GQDXP-MVB). The 185757711 is listed as MMDPE56GQDXP-MVB.

And they have an 800-538-7550 number for a toll-free call (and some email addresses at https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/sony-service-contacts.aspx) where you could ask about those ribbon cables.

Sorry for any duplication or misunderstanding -- I just dropped by and noticed that someone seemed to not know of a Sony parts site online.

 

I obtained the P/N from an Authorised Service Provider and the website you have mentioned. Thanks for the info anyway.

The specific ribbon cable is not available to the US market, this has been confirmed with the service provider.

 

Sorry. Thought you had to actually consult with that provider for him/her to consult a database. (And the provider who "confirmed" the unavailability was Sony ServicePlus or someone else?)

Well, now everyone at the thread can check any other parts of interest, like the LCD in the event of damage, etc.

 

Hello ,

any help in order to use my old 512GB SSD into my new Vaio Z ?

 

derrida, THANK YOU!
https://servicesplus.us.sony.biz/PartsPLUSResults.aspx?sType=parts&PageNum=3

very first line....
VPCZ119FJ A1769470A FLEXIBLE PRINTED CIRCUIT $47.38

and yes, that is definitely the US sony parts, not EU or JP

unfortunately, the website gives me an error when i try to order it. I sent them an email about it, so hopefully they can just order it for me using my account info...

ozbimmer - if it lets me order (big IF), i took care of u to bro.

 

bahhhhhhh, nevermind, i just rereadthe posts from earlier, i didnt realize that was the same site you had already tried to order it from.

what i'm wondering is how many people have read this and then tried contacting them for that part number. i would like to think that eventually sony would give in and supply the demand.
i tend to be cynical, especially about big corporations, so i'm pretty sure instead of caving in to demand they will see it as confirmation of what a good job they did screwing their customers.

 

VPCZ119FJ is actually a JP model.

Not sure why serviceplus is showing it in their database. BTW, I notice they have modified the descriptions of all new Z (prefix VPCZ) parts (eg. FPC-212 to just FLEXIBLE PRINTED CIRCUIT) so no one knows what the parts are for?!

 

Hi - just got my Vaio Z - went for the HDD version (UK model) as I hoped to swap the HDD for a Crucial C300 SSD that I already own. I'm not sure how to remove the base of the laptop and thought I'd ask for advice rather than piling straight in and possibly breaking something.

qu 1 - can a standard SSD drive fit if i were to replace the HDD?

qu2 - is there a link / guide so I know how to get the back off the laptop?

thanks