Vaio AW31 display too contrasty in Vista

Hi fans of the "Fat Vaio",

I now own a Sony Vaio AW31 S/B notebook with full HD display (double lamp but non-LED).

Quite impressive machine, but I have one problem: In windows and IE8, the colours look a bit too "punchy" and contrasty for my taste.
I found that there's an ICC profile included for the display which by default is applied in the Windows colour management. When I watch my photos in the Vista photo gallery, the profile seems to be applied correctly, as the photos look very good and natural, but when I use a photo for example as a desktop wallpaper, it looks much more contrasty and not so natural anymore.
Vista itself also looks quite contrasty, and also many websites in IE8.

I already tried to turn off the colour management in the Vaio control center and find proper settings in the GPU driver (as I did with all my previous laptops without colour profiles) but didn't succeed in finding a natural setting.

So my questions:
How do you overcome this "problem"? Anyone maybe found good screen settings without colour management (which doesn't make so much sense if you don't calibrate your screen by yourself)? Or did you get used to the punchy look of Windows?
Is there any way to make Vista use the colour profile also for its user interface?

Thanks a lot!

Cheers
Tobi

 

Reinstall to Win 7

 

Not much you can with notebook lcds. Driver and special apps that come with the notebook are all you got. Play around with different settings yourself until you are satisfied. Anyone 's else idea would not do it for "your" eyes.

cheers ...

 

Hi Tobi, I have a AW11 with RGB-LED display and also try to get the colors under control.

There is no color management for the desktop and wallpapers.
But you can modify the Windows color scheme. For wallpapers use Photoshop Elements, load the image, apply AdobeRGB color profile (if you have a more advanced software, apply the display profile instead) and save under a different name. Use this file as your wallpaper.

With IE8 you are out of luck, but Firefox 3.x supports color management.
Check at: http://www.color.org/version4html.xalter

For videos you can use VAIO Control Center / display / color mode settings.
To reduce color saturation use the "x.v.Color" preset.

There is an article about the topic from the German c't magazine online:
http://www.heise.de/ct/Windows-Farbmanagement-im-Griff--/artikel/135881

Hope this helps.

 

Hi Installer,

welcome to the forums - decent first post, I'd say!

Thank you, it really helped! Especially the clue of embedding the monitor profile in my desktop wallpaper. This should work with GIMP, which I'm using for picture editing. Already enabled colour management there, so the photos are displayed correctly during editing.

Already read about the color management in Firefox 3.x, so I will try this one.

Thanks also for make me remember this article! I've got all recent ct magazines, but already forgot about that article!

Gruß
Tobi

rep +1 for you!

 

The AW31 is not an RGB LED display, which is not to say that the tips given aren't useful for everyone. In the terms used by that linked article, the AW may have a wide-gamut LCD. In any event, the article said that Windows XP, Vista and the 7 preview handle color management in all screens perfectly except for during the slideshow feature:

Microsofts normale Bild- und Faxanzeige unter XP, Vista und den Vorabversionen von Windows 7 arbeitet hingegen nahezu perfekt und zeigt sogar beim Verschieben des Fensters zwischen zwei Monitoren die Farben auf jedem Display korrekt an. Bei der Diashow leistet sie sich aber einen blöden Patzer und vergisst die Umrechnung aufs Monitorprofil.

Also, this "problem" is likely why Sony is no longer offering the RGB LED on the AW series. The "average" user probably thought there was a defect with the screen and returned the unit! Once the management of color on such displays becomes more "user-friendly", then my guess is that Sony will be using them on more of its series. Right now the RGB LED is no longer available on the AW series.

 

Hi,

Vista only handles the color management correctly in the photo gallery, but not in the normal user interface.

I now followed the hint to embed the display profile in my desktop wallpaper, which works perfectly and for all kinds of screens, as long as you have the right profile. I also changed to Firefox 3.5.1, where pictures are also displayed fine (I only followed the hint from the article to change the mode of the color management from 2 to 1).

Cheers
Tobi

 

Well, the linked article in CT magazine (excerpt provided above) says exactly the opposite of what you're experiencing -- but then again they're discussing an RGB-LED screen, which yours is not.

 

No, what they write is the same what I experience: Vista shows proper color management in the photogallery (former "Bild und Faxanzeige") as long as you use the normal mode and not the slideshow. They do not write about the normal user interface, where no color management is applied. I can tell you because a sRGB photo which i use as desktop wallpaper looks completely different (much more natural) in the photogallery, where proper cm is applied.

The article (I have the full version here) is not only about RGB-LED displays, but about all displays with a wider gamut than normal sRGB. Mine also seems to have a wide gamut as normal sRGB pictures are displayed incorrect without any color management, but correct when cm is applied. Adobe RGB pictures look quite OK without cm. So, seems that the gamut of my display is near Adobe RGB. It does not make much of a difference if you are using a non-LED display with a gamut somewhere between sRGB and Adobe RGB or a RGB-LED display with full Adobe RGB. Both need color management to display normal sRGB pictures in a correct and natural way and not way too oversaturated.

Cheers

 

From what you write, then all HiColor LCDs by Sony would also benefit from this type of color management manipulation. Unlike the "FullHD" ads, the "HiColor" ads indicated "100% color purity" -- and a little research on "HiColor" does seem to place it closer to Adobe RGB on the spectrum than other CCFL/LED screens.

And that bears out the specs variations at notebookcheck.net where the Sony FullHD screens seem to not be as bright as HiColor by a long shot. And from having seen a HiColor and a FullHD side-by-side in the FW series, the "contrasty" difference was clearly noticeable, giving the HiColor a sense of crispness and brightness even though its contrast was not technically better in measurements given in reviews.

I have not had the opportunity to visually compare HiColor, FullHD, and RGB LED on Sonys, however. Nor to compare the FullHD across different series or refreshes. Some people seem to be indicating that the current Eco and FullHD are better than in the previous incarnations of the same series. Sony and Sharp now own a factory together, so this might be a literal by-product.

It remains interesting that Sony has abandoned offering the RGB on the AW series, at least in the States.

 

It's a fact that you have to deal with color management as soon as it comes to displays with a wide gamut. That's also the general conclusion of the ct article. What I don't understand is, that Sony doesn't provide the buyer of such a notebook no information at all on this topic.
Sure, they include a color profile and set this in Vista. But then, the average customer notices that his pictures look quite different depending on the program he uses (whether it uses the global profile or not), but has no idea why. i guess quite a few of those machines were already returned because of this. Especially, because not only the LED screen is affected, bot also the normal Full HD.

Cheers

 

It's not clear that all displays with a wide gamut have this issue because a friend's FW190 with HiColor (again, the one that Sony advertizes as having 100% color purity) did not have issues. However, it should be noted that the HiColor doesn't exist at the higher resolution; it's 1600 x 900. And again, I have seen at least one Sony FullHD at the higher resolution which didn't pose problems.

I don't think Sony is alone in having simply put out an RGB LED screen without extra notices about color management. I recall hearing that many people were having issues with Dell's RGB LEDs, as well.

Again, it isn't clear that all of the non-RGB LED screens on the Sony AWs have the issues you're experiencing. For example, this review doesn't mention any calibration issues and stresses an easy out-of the box experience: http://www.notebookinfo.de/tests/sony-vaio-vgn-aw31m-h/35/.

P.S. According to this site the AW31S/B ( http://www.notebookinfo.de/notebook...-2-duo-p8700-2-53-ghz-vgnaw31s-b-g4/6626448/), the model you have, does not have what in the States is called the FullHD but rather an Eco screen. The FullHD in the States has the higher 1920x1080 resolution.

However, if you are in the UK, it does: https://www.sonystyle.co.uk/SonySty...pe=areaDetails&isHideActive=)/.do#bottomTabs\

And the German Sony site says it does as well: https://www.sonystyle.de/SonyStyle/VAIO-Notebook-PC/AW-Serie-18-4/VGNAW31S/B.G4

AND the German site reveals that there are RGB-LEDs available with 3-LED lamps:
Erleben Sie den ersten Full HD 18,4” Notebook-Bildschirm mit vollständigem Adobe® RGB-Farbscan und 3-LED-Hintergrundbeleuchtung.
https://www.sonystyle.de/SonyStyle/VAIO-Notebook-PC/AW-Serie-18-4

I noticed from the beginning of the refresh that the European sites were no longer using the term "dual lamp" but using "multiple lamps" instead. Now it seems that this difference from the U.S. market is large indeed.

There is a fair amount of confusion about just what an X-Black screen is in models outside of the U.S. The bare minimum is the coating, sometimes dual-lamps are included (and now, "multiple lamps"), but usually at the higher resolution. It does not seem possible to be 100% certain that the models outside of the U.S. correspond exactly to models with the same specs within the U.S called FullHD. For one thing, manufacturing processes and the laws pertaining thereto differ from country to country. A notebook manufactured in the EU would likely have had to meet more ISO requirements than one manufactured for the U.S. market.

And nowhere in the U.S. market is there anything offering an RGB LED screen on the AW3 line.

 

Seems that Sony offers different models of the AW Series in different countries. In Germany, the new models are the AW31 M/H with 1600x945 standard Display, the AW31 S/B and ZJ/B with multiple lamp Full HD Display and the AW31 XY/Q with the RGB LED Display.

I think, what we call "issue" is not an issue for most customers. For them, it's just a very bright, contrasty and brilliant display. Only photographers and other people who need natural colors think more about color management and stuff.

Now, as I know more about it and noticed that my photos and websites are displayed perfectly when I use the right programs, I'm absolutely happy with my notebook.

I was just wondering in the beginning, because with all my former computers, I only applied little changes to the standard settings and that was it. Here I tried to use manual corrections but didn't succeed, until I understood that the display profile was all I need.

Cheers
Tobi

 

Tobi 1982, you're in Germany. So can you tell me why the non-RGB LED higher resolution screen is now referred to as "multiple" lamp where for the AW1 and AW2 series FullHD, I believe, the word "double" was used? Did you by any chance see an AW2 to compare? Or can you ask Sony in Germany what the difference is? "Multiple" implies more than two.

Danke sehr....

 

Hi Tobi and Derrida,
this has become a real hot discussion, while I was fighting with Vista 64 and Sony drivers to get a clean install on my AW11XU/Q.
Bye bye Sony bloat- and spyware

In fact, Tobi is right. Sony is neither promoting nor documenting the display features in an appropriate way. I have never seen technical data, and bought the notebook only because of an article, which was focused on the excellent display features. If you search for "color" in the user manual, you get detailed information about the status LEDs, but the "color control settings" are not explained.

The discussion about CCFL contra LED depends on the technical implementation. Special lambs and LCD color filters are used in the wide gamut CCFL displays, and they can get competitive color fidelity to RGB LEDs. White LED illuminated displays are similar to conventional CCFL displays.




About wide gamut CCFLs, see:
http://www.presentationtek.com/2008/02/11/wcg-ccfl-wide-color-gamut-ccfl-backlight-technology/

The color space of RGB-LED displays is mainly determined by the color tone and pureness of the R, G, and B LEDs. This is a technological and economical challenge. As you can see from the diagram, even the RGB-LED displays are far from covering the entire visible color space.
This is impossible with three primary colors, either.
There was a display presentation on a fair this spring, with five color channels, claiming to cover 99% CIE .
But if you want to get the maximum out of RGB, you have to use laser RGB backlights (because of color pureness). The R and B laser colors must be exactly in the corners of the CIE diagram. But there are no such diode lasers till now. And they have to be very bright, because your eyes are not very sensitive in the deep red and blue.

But let's talk about the things we have now.
From my rough investigation of the Sony color settings, I have some questions. There are several color profiles installed with the Nvida driver.
On my machine only ...03_D65... and ...03_D50... are used by the color control settings.

What is used on your machine, Toby?

The color profiles are created for Gamma=1.92, which is in between the Mac and TV standard of 1.8 and the Windows standard of 2.2. Seems that the color mode switching changes the display LUT to compensate for that.

Toby, do you have Color control settings in the Vaio control center?
And which version?

On my display, the LED backlight color is switched from 6500K to 5000K, when I use the Printing preset (Wallpaper also gets warmer color tone). What happens on your machine?

Cheers, Installer

 

Hi Installer,

yes, i have a color mode setting in my Vaio control center. I can choose between "Standard", "TV", "DVD/BD", "x,y-color" and "No color mode" and automatic selection. Except for the case "no color mode", the display profile 22834_02_D65 is set in the Windows color management. If no color mode is selected, also no display profile is active.

I can only see a difference directly when I'm playing a video and switching between the color modes. normal desktop is not affected.

I tried choosing different profiles in GIMP, but only with the 02_D65, the colors look natural in my opinion. Maybe the other profiles are for the other screens? (01 for the standard display, 02 for full HD and 03 for LED?)

My version of the control center is 3.3.0.12240.

What do you mean by color preset "printing"? Where can you change this?
I think I don't have this option on mine. Maybe it just switches the D50 and D65 profile? Could refer to 5000 and 6500 K, but I'm not too sure.
Really a pitty Sony doesn't give any documentation on this...

@Derrida
I once saw a AW 21 S/B in an electronics market, but I could not compare directly between the AW21 and 31. I also wondered, why all of a sudden they write about "multiple lamps", which would mean "at least 3" in my opinion. I think I write an E-Mail to Sony anyway about this whole display stuff, I can ask them, how many lamps I have ;-)

Cheers,
Tobi

 

Gotta run, but tell me which computer manufacturer gives more information on the RGB LED than Sony does? (Hint: like the angels, they can sit on the head of a pin).

And specs? You've got to be kidding. Sony isn't the only one to not give them out. The notebook manufacturers are all racing to the bottom on pricing and cutting deals with different third world producers. Sony, at least, now co-owns a Sharp factory and may be producing some of its own screens as well (depending on who you ask).

Just a little bit of perspective out there. We're all being short-changed on specs, all over the world, by all of the computer manufacturers. The irony is that they wouldn't dare treat their television markets this way.

We the consumers need to push back more on the specs issue everywhere. To single out Sony in this matter -- when their screens are among, if not the, best -- is to perhaps mislead a potential buyer into thinking that Sony is worse than its competitors in this regard.

Tobi, thanks.... Yes, do let us know what Sony tells you about the switch from Doppel to Mehrere in their ads. In the States, they have no idea what I'm talking about because in English they don't always mention the lamps at all!

 

This is no offense against Sony, it's just weird they do not mention the capabilities of the display with any word in the manuals, and also in the advertising, they only write about the backlight technique, nothing else.

 

Here's the most I've been able to find on the HiColor technology which, as another poster indicated, comes very close to RGB LED performance: http://auo.com/auoDEV/technology.php?sec=HiColor (There's a side-by-side with a regular CCFL, as well.)

And yes, it is weird that basically none of the computer manufacturer's give any details of the capabilities of RGB LED technology. As for Sony's advertizing, the fact that the RGB LED is not available in all countries might explain the scarcity of details in the AW advertizing....

 

Thanks for the info, Tobi.

With your help, I think, I have understood what they do.
The "control color settings" do modify the Windows color profile settings, the GPU look up tables, and for RGB-LED displays the color temperature of the backlight. This is done by changing the brightness of the red, green and blue LEDs individually. This is not possible with CCFLs and therefore you do not have the "Print" preset with a backlight color temp. of 5000K.

These settings do not exist in the US-Model VGN-AW190, as you can see by installing the "control color settings" from the US support site. (Don't forget to backup C:, before that). You simply get a color temperature setting, only.

I have found the place, where control info is stored:
"C:\ProgramData\Sony Corporation\Common Settings\Color Control Setting\"
With some research, you should be able to add a sRGB setting

I was intested in the version of the "control color settings", not the "control center". But I did not remember, that there is no easy way to find out, because this is a silent install. Sorry for that.


BUT NOW TO THE REALLY SURPRISING FIND!

I compared the color profiles "VAIO display profile_22834_03_D65.icc" for my display,
and the profile "VAIO display profile_22834_02.icc" (I do not have a _D50 and _D65 version on my machine) for Tobis display
with the AdobeRGB1998.icc provided by Microsoft on all Windows machines.
I have used the color control applet for XP (which is provided within a free update from Microsoft "WindowsColorUpdateXP1.0" or so).

AND GUESS WHAT: NONE OF THE PROFILES COVERED THE ENTIRE ADOBERGB SPACE

The pictures show the display profile with color, and the Adobe profile in white. At all postions, where only white is visible, AdobeRGB exceeds the display profile.


My display shows a wider color space, as expected, but lacks in the blue to cyan area, it does not even cover sRGB in this area!


Tobis display does not entirely cover AdobeRGB at several colors, but is much better fitted to AdobeRGB.

OK, I did not check the profiles against all AdobeRGB definitions (yes, there are more than one!), but given, that the profiles provided by SONY matches the diplay capabilities, NOW YOU KNOW, why there are no specs!

I would like to hear, what the printing professionals (cyan!) tell their
Sony dealers, after a calibration trial (and error).

@Derrida:
Dual or multiple lamb does not tell you anything about the resolution.
I do not think, that they use more than two lambs, one above, and one below the display. Multiple is more than one! The advantage is a more homogeneous illumination, and normally higher brightness. If you like the 'real open office', thats for you. But not, if it is a glare display. Mine is really good outdoors.

If you have software to compare profiles, please check, if I am right.
You can extract the profiles from: http://support.vaio.sony.eu/computi...163771.exe&m=VGN-AW11XU_Q&ip=EP0000163771.htm

Greetings, Installer

 

Well, for one thing, a little bit more searching on the 'Net turns up this Sony site where, ta da! the 100% color fidelity is used (for the first time since HiColor terminology disapppeared a refresh or two ago) to describe the newest AW screen (Tobi's I believe) and even the new FW screens. There's also a paragraph on the RGB LED (Installer's?) and, ta da! Sony even talks about what software it gives you that you might use to best benefit from it: http://vaio.sony.co.uk/view/ShowPro...voe_en_GB_cons&category=VN+AW+Series#sc3pair1
http://vaio.sony.co.uk/view/ShowPro...voe_en_GB_cons&category=VN+FW+Series#sc2pair1

Of course, the number of lamps doesn't tell you about the resolution but the resolution doesn't necessarily tell you anything about color purity, either (witness the until-now better-performing HiColor of earlier 1600x900 fame).

I think I have figured out the multiple lamps marketing strategy: It covers the dual-lamp CCFL and the "triluminous" RGB LED.

Again, attacking Sony for its lack of specs is just plain below the belt. Attack all manufacturers or none at this point. Sony is providing more than its competitors do in quality of visual experience. And it seems to be doing so by partnering with screen producing companies.

Asking for standardization is to ask for the technology to "stand still" as it were. When we ask Sony for specs (and I've done my share of asking, mind you) we're trying to quantify a good experience and make it even better by maximizing our control over it. Asking Dell for screen specs is trying to figure out how to take a generally inferior screen experience and find a better one.

World of difference, in my opinion.

 

They use the term "up to 100% color fidelity"! I do not watch the current marketing strategy of Sony. This was a general comment.

But they claim to cover the entire AobeRGB space, not "up to"! And if they do not, that's a real problem.
In contrast to Dell, they claim to provide a color management solution. Yes they do, but not one word in the manual about what it does, and how to handle it.

And for me as a customer, who really wants to work with his notebook, this is a problem. Of cause, I am not a typical VAIO customer. I am not interested in becoming a VAIO club member.

I just want a laptop with a non glare display, that is a real desktop replacement.

I did not ask for standardisation, but as history should tell you, this is a boring process, but a motor for innovations, not the opposite.

 

Installer, please email [email protected] and ask these very questions. That might be a way for all of us to learn what Sony's answer is to this sort of issue -- post us what they respond, please.

Yes, I agree that we are the motor for innovations by our pushing the envelope. I'm not saying we shouldn't bug Sony directly -- I just don't think that they alone deserve condemnation for being circumspect about specs!

P.S. As for a non-glare display, I agree that choices appear to be more limited everywhere. And this is an adaptive issue for persons with disabilities as well.

I think the problem is that the production lines are changing not simply with each refresh but often with each batch cluster, as globalization sends parts all over the world for assembly at different locations. And in that case, legally a manufacturer is less "exposed" by saying nothing than by making a claim about specs which might be contradicted by the next batch shipment.

 

Hi Installer,

thank you for your extensive studies. What you found about my color profile correlates well whith my finding that pictures in Adobe RGB look quite good whitout any color management.

For my very display, I never read some specifications on the gamut. The only place where this "up to 100% Adobe RGB" shows up is the general advertising text on the Sony homepage, but this still refers to the AW11 series in many parts and does not distinct between the different models and displays.

PS: I also have only one version of the "02" color profile. I have two versions of the "03" profile.
PPS; I found, for my model, I can't download the single "Color Control Center", but only the full "Vaio Control center".

Cheers
Tobi

 

Once more with feeling: The HiColor technology and other additional developments permit from 92% to 100% color fidelity in the non-RGB LED CCFL screen. The overlapping diagram at the AUO site link was clear. Once it's an LED, HiColor alone can go to 105% without RGB LED technology.

The information about the flagship AW RGB LED FullHD model is separated out in the advertising. Sony seems to be saying in its European advertizing that it has now reintroduced the technology of HiColor in the "regular" FullHD AW screens and, apparently, the FW's regular FullHD screens as well.

I have not yet located a review with contrast and brightness specs for the new AW FullHD or the FullHD RGB LED on notebookjournal.de. Remember: Sony refers to these screens as "new" and is now using the "color fidelity" terms so something might indeed have changed. And commenters on other threads seem to have seen a difference in both the Eco and the FullHD screens on the FW4 line in comparison with the earlier FW3.

 

One more question:

Is there any freeware program which allows to edit ICC Profiles manually?

I would like to give my display a slightly "colder" color tone, but have no option on this in the software. So my idea is to adjust the display profile in a way that I get the desired color temperature.

Cheers
Tobi

 

Okay, yesterday notebookjournal.de put up its review of an AW3 with FullHD and RGB LED. Here's a link to the test results page: http://www.notebookjournal.de/tests/inspection/sony-vaio-vgn-aw31xy-959

Not sure what it tells us, though the review itself in the preceding pages to this link compares it to the the AW2 as not much changed....

I remain surprised that a Sony RGB LED screen is so much darker than its former HiColor line of dual lamp CCFLs.

 

I think the pixels are not supporting in your notebook or your notebook settings should be changed,I mean you should change the system appearances.I think this will serve your problem.