Vaio Flip: the Yoga hinge comes to Sony

Should be revealed soon. Personally, I'm not excited--I like the Duo slider hinge better--but more variety is good.

 

I'm personally excited to see what Sony will be coming up with here, won't be buying it since I grabbed the pro 13 already but if the package is a better deal I might just sell the pro and grab this, if it is reasonably priced.

 

Speculation: to avoid two models in direct competition (what I'll call "the General Motors problem"), I suspect that this will be much cheaper than the Duo 13, perhaps part of the Vaio Fit family (Fit Flip...nice alliteration). I suspect a Yoga hinge is cheaper than a well-made slider, so that would certainly help with the pricing.

The video shows the person drawing with a pencil. New Xperia phones have technology that allows you to use any graphite pencil as a non-pressure-sensitive stylus. I wouldn't be surprised to see this same technology on the Vaio Flip. Serious artists would still seek out the Duo 13, but the pencil-stylus setup would be a selling point over competitors like the Yoga, which don't have any sort of stylus at all for accuracy or handwriting purposes.

In the end, they draw a line through the middle of the screen. Some sort of unusual form factor or case design going on there?

 

Haven't been on here in forever, but saw this video today and my immediate reaction was to come back.

Been fighting the urge to get a Duo 13, but now also a little curious as to what this is.

 

As mentioned in the Z haswell thread, perhaps this might be a P series revival, at this moment who knows, or even be a yoga-like device. I have a gut feeling this is not a regular core laptop but atom powered with sales either starting in october or mid to late november for the holiday season.

 

i just hope whatever this is, will be a premium device (i.e. Z) and not another 'Fit' lineup

 

Same here. Sony has a noticeable absence of truly high end laptops right now. They need more Z series and F/ S series devices.

 

I think that teaser video may have been for the just-revealed-today VAIO Tap 11, a Windows 8 tablet with a Surface-style form factor (keyboard cover and kickstand). Haswell, N-Trig stylus, 1080p, and Sony claims it's the thinnest tablet PC ever sold. The line through the middle at the end of the teaser video was an allusion to the kickstand.



Sony takes on the Surface Pro with the VAIO Tap 11, its first Windows 8 tablet (hands-on)

EDIT: the Tap 11's kickstand isn't full-width, so maybe this teaser wasn't for the Tap 11, and there's something else on the way too?

 

Here it is: the VAIO Flip Sony Vaio Flip: One of the Most Logical Laptop Convertibles Yet

Seems like a really clever "why didn't anyone do that before" design!

 

Kanuk beat me to the punch: I'd missed the official unveil of the VAIO Flip when I posted about the VAIO Tap 11.

Well, the design actually has been done before, in the Acer Aspire R7. But Acer stumbled on the details, and I suspect Sony has nailed those.

Anyway, with sizes in 13, 14, and 15", I bet this is the successor to the VAIO S-series.

EDIT: with a dedicated GPU, this is definitely the S-Series successor. And nice high-res screens too:

 

The R7 doesn't really have a "normal" laptop mode, the display sits towards the middle of the lower/keyboard part, a la VAIO Duo. The VAIO Flip has a much more elegant design and looks like a "real" laptop.

 

SNEAK PEEK from IFA 2013: New VAIO lineup (Windows 8 convertible PCs, Tablets) - YouTube

At minute 3.20min he says it will be a quad core option cpu for the models in early next year...

 

The R7 does actually have a normal laptop mode. The R7's screen doesn't have to sit at the top edge of the keyboard. In fact, it can also be aligned to the back edge of the base unit like a normal laptop; this exposes the trackpad (which is above the R7's keyboard instead of being below it). That said, I agree 100% that the Vaio Flip's execution is FAR more elegant than the R7's.

Between the ultra-high-res screen, the dedicated GPU, the available quad-core CPU, and the well-thought-out hinge, I think the Flip 15 is a very worthy successor to the S15, and the Flip 13 may be perfect for people longing for a VAIO Z successor (that the ULV Duo lineup doesn't really serve as). I'm very, very happy with where Sony is going with its PC design right now.

 

i just dont understand why there is only ulv laptops... thats not enough for performance oriented tasks.... i was hoping for something more powerfull..

 

Agreed, this ticks the few remaining boxes that the S didn't after the Z died. I wonder if the 13" will have a full-voltage CPU...

 

The Vaio Flip is getting quad-core CPUs. (See post 12, above). I don't think there are ULV quad-core CPUs. So the Vaio Flip, like the Vaio S before it, is the laptop to go to if you want full-power CPUs in a thin-and-light package.

 

None of these laptops will have full voltage cpu, only ulv...

 

They lay out four Vaio Flip models at 2:57 in that video, but there's only three models of Flip officially revealed today. The fourth, which he says is a prototype right now and coming next year, is a slightly-beefier-looking 13" model. I think he's including it when he talks about the quad-core models coming next year. I think that "prototype" we see at 2:57 is the next Z, and the other three models are the next Ses.

EDIT: He specifically lays his hand on the 13" prototype and says "this is going to launch with a different CPU than these, it's going to be Intel, it's going to be quad-core." It's at about 3:27. That is your first look at the next Z, folks. He can't spell it out any plainer than that.

 

well, lets wait and see, but i would much prefer 13 inch, not 11 inch

 

Any word on battery life for the 13 inch?

 

When exactly (in what situations) do we need the Haswell non-ULV? I don't even have a desktop anymore and just wondering why in what situations will I find myself wanting the non-ULV.

I'm not a developer nor do I crunch/analyze vast amounts of data.

Thanks in advance.

 

I'm confused, there was no 11 inch flip model in the press release, maybe it is a US exclusive?

 

I'm not sure whether you're referring specifically to Haswell or asking why anyone would want any non-ULV CPU in a laptop? ULVs have come a long way but the laws of physics still apply - if they consume less electricity, they will have less power than an equivalent full-voltage CPU.

So in a nutshell it's like asking why anyone would want a car with an 8-cylinder engine rather than a 4-cylinder. Some people just want (or need) more horsepower.

 

The Flip 11 wasn't officially released, and the press release is about released models. The video made clear they were just teasing a prototype. I'm betting it's not a US-exclusive; I think the Z has always done very well in Europe and Japan.

 

I wish I could retitle the thread. This hinge isn't a Yoga-style hinge at all. It's better characterized as a classier, more refined XPS 12-esque design.

 

Thanks. I understand that but was wondering if it mattered to the lay person who doesn't do work on CPU intensive / processing tasks or game.

 

Anything from statistical analysis to video rendering. The lay person will find a ULV more than sufficient, however.

Edit to elaborate a bit on this:

My wife's laptop has a ULV Ivy Bridge i5 and it works quite well for normal tasks, including light gaming (Sims 3 and whatnot) - and the Haswell ULVs are apparently even better. The fact that the Flip has available dedicated GPUs makes it an even better all-rounder.

 

I read on a dutch tech site that the 11 inch model will run a quad core Atom CPU, Atom Bay Trail-soc's in the new Celeron line. If that's the case the Sony engineer wasn't lying. It's an Intel chip, just not the one everybody is hoping for and it fits in such a small design.

 

I run VMs with ULVs. It's not an issue. Are there things that need a full processor? Sure. But I do pretty heavy stuff and I/O and memory are my bottlenecks before CPU. While I'm intrugued by the possible Z successor (the 11" if it's not an Atom), the Flip 13A may immediately replace the Pro 13 I have if it can have at least 12GB of memory and the m.2 512GB SSD in the higher spec Pro 13.

 

I am thinking about replacing my Z13 with the 15 inch model with the higher res screen and dedicated GPU for home use as I use my Duo or Q702 for on the road. Also like the ethernet port on the larger size models.

 

The Flip looks like an excellent machine and I am glad I waited to buy a new laptop especially now that my current is on its last legs (one of my hinges broke on my screen so knows knows how long it will last with 1). I wish they were releasing an 11 inch that you could get with an i7 with a 256 gb SSD and 8 GB of ram, if that was released today I would buy that in a HEARTBEAT! sadly I don't think I can wait until the 11" prototype specs are released to see if its an atom or Z successor. to me the 13" is almost perfect for my needs so that's probably the direction I will go.

 

According to the video, the 11 will have a quad-core processor. Knowing Sony, I'm sure they're talking full-power, not ULV and certainly not Atom.

If you can't wait, I bet the Flip 13 will serve you well.

 

flip 13 = perfect. wish there was a ulv option for better battery life ;/
but this is what i wanted a win8 pc to be. portable with an on demand tablet mode that was simple

 

I can't count the number of times I've heard this on various forums and blogs today. The Flip lineup is going to be massively successful for Sony.

 

sony hit a home run...on both form and function with this one. i wonder why they dint use carbon fiber like pro laptop instead of aluminium

 

A lot of consumers think carbon fiber looks and feels like "plastic." Never mind it's an expensive and highly-utilitarian material; it doesn't fit many customers' tactile expectations for a $1000+ laptop.

 

Well, the Flip 13 seems really nice. I'm not too keen on the well rounded corners and change in materials (what ever happened to Sony's styling team anyway?) but the hinge and specifications look great. I'm wondering where this will be made.

 

At last, some innovation from the people we expected the innovation from to begin with..

Found some prices as well:

VAIO Fit 13A
SVF13N1J2ES: EUR 999,-
SVF13N1L2ES: EUR 1.199,-
SVF13N1Y9ES: EUR 1.499,-
(end October)

VAIO Fit 15A
SVF15N1E2ES: EUR 799,-
SVF15N1L2ES: EUR 999,-
SVF15N1S2ES: EUR 1.199,-
(end October)

SVF15N1X2EB: EUR 1.299,-
SVF15N1Z2EB: EUR 1.499,-
(end November)

The last two have the 2880x1620px screen from what I understand.

 

Make sure the prices are for the FLIP and not the FIT. The Vaio Fit is the successor to the Vaio E--it's a traditional laptop oriented at Sony's lower price range.

 

I also think:
a) Keeps costs down (CF is more expensive, despite what people think about feel)
b) Keeps the Pro as a more 'premium' product since it will be lighter

 

This is pretty silly. It's not a Z, S, or F replacement, it's a replacement for the current FIT line with a novel screen design. Same ULV hardware (and yes, the only ones that will have quad cores will be the 11 inchers which is an atom-type quad-core CPU, so not a performance-oriented processer). The fact that the largest one has a GPU is pretty ridiculous given that the CPU is so underpowered. Sony still has exclusively ULV processors... waiting for them to release a real computer. I guess I'm stuck with Zenbook Infinity/Thinkpad X240 for the next couple years until Sony figures out how to make something that's not an Ultrabook...

 

Have you read anywhere that the Flip is replacing the relatively-new-on-the-scene Fit lineup instead of supplementing it? Remember that the Vaio E and Vaio S lines co-existed, and on paper even looked similar at times, but the S had better build quality, better screens, and better materials. In my mind, the Fit line is the successor to the E and the Flip line is the successor to the S.

The Flip 15 has a 2880x1600 IPS display...I doubt it's meant to be their "budget-minded" and "entry-level" system.

 

Well, given that they are calling these ones "FIT" I would be surprised to see both stay, esp. given that the current FITs have last-gen silicon (they refer to them as the "VAIO Fit 14A Flip PC", etc.) They could potentially refresh the FIT line (i.e., the non-"A" Fit) and offer the same machines (same specs) minus the extra hinge for lower cost, but why bother? And, yes two years ago a panel like that would have screamed premium, but today it is becoming increasingly passé. Also, from what I heard it's an optional upgrade not the base configuration, but I may be incorrect about that.

Anyways, given that the processors on the 13 inch model max out at 4500U (if the picture a few pages back is accurate) then yes, I would expect these to replace the FITs at the low-end. That is the absolute least-powerful and least-expensive i7 model in existence. If that's the MAXIMUM possible configuration, you can't expect it to be premium. Yes, it's true that the PRO also has that as it's maximum, and it is semi-premium (I won't call it truly premium, since I reserve that for machines like the SVZ, SS9, etc.) but it is way thinner, lighter, and sexier to make up for it. These FLIP/FIT-A machines are definitely at the low end of the spectrum.

 

Let's face it: the only one to get a better processor of the recent Sony machines is the Duo 13. A better processor isn't even an option for CTOs on the Pro - anywhere in the world (including Japan; the US got a bump on memory on the Pro 11 which is nice). Assuming good build quality, same specs as a Pro 13 (including the m.2 SSD and roughly 7ish+ hours of battery life), I'd take a Flip 13 over any Duo or Pro right now at the same size. The slight bump in weight (2.34 --> 2.6 lbs) isn't a major deal.

Even the new Lenovo X240 has the ULV now, and so do all of the new premium Panasonics announced in Japan (LX3, SX3, NX3) whereas in the past they had full processors. That should say something. Truly mobile workstations with powerful processors are all but dead - not that I want it, but it's reality.

 

considering how Hot the Pro runs with the current CPU, i dont imagine it will get a full voltage one.

maybe if they release a new one with a double fan like Vaio Z.

 

My Pro 13 doesn't run very hot, even when running some VMs. And the only time I really notice the fans is when I am doing something like using a VM.

The days of most manufacturers using full processors in laptops is dwindling. It will be a select few models.

 

Copy and pasted from Sonys Ultrabooks auf der IFA - Bilder - CHIP Online

Sony Vaio SVF13N1J2ES
Display: 13.3 Zoll (Touch)
Auflösung: 1.920 x 1.080 Pixel
Prozessor: Intel Core i3-4005U
Arbeitsspeicher: 4 GByte
Festplatte: 128 GByte SSD

Preis: ab rund 1.000 Euro
------------------------------
Sony Vaio SVF13N1L2ES
Display: 13.3 Zoll (Touch)
Auflösung: 1.920 x 1.080 Pixel
Prozessor: Intel Core i5-4200U
Arbeitsspeicher: 8 GByte
Festplatte: 128 GByte SSD

Preis: ab rund 1.200 Euro
------------------------------
Sony Vaio SVF13N1Y9ES
Display: 13.3 Zoll (Touch)
Auflösung: 1.920 x 1.080 Pixel
Prozessor: Intel Core i7-4500U
Arbeitsspeicher: 8 GByte
Festplatte: 256 GByte SSD

Preis: ab rund 1.500 Euro
-----------------------------
Sony Vaio SVF15N1X2EB
Display: 15.5 Zoll (Touch)
Auflösung: 2.880 x 1.620 Pixel
Prozessor: Intel Core i5-4200U
Arbeitsspeicher: 8 GByte
Festplatte: Hybridspeicher 1 TByte HDD inkl. 16 GByte SSD

Preis: ab rund 1.300 Euro
-----------------------------
Sony Vaio SVF15N1S2ES
Display: 15.5 Zoll (Touch)
Auflösung: 1.920 x 1.080 Pixel
Prozessor: Intel Core i5-4200U
Arbeitsspeicher: 8 GByte
Festplatte: Hybridspeicher 1 TByte inkl. 16GByte SSD

Preis: ab rund 1.200 Euro
-----------------------------
Sony Vaio Fit 15E
Display: 15.5 Zoll
Auflösung: 1.366 x 768 Pixel
Prozessor: bis zu Intel Core i7
Arbeitsspeicher: 8 GByte
Festplatte: 1 TByte HDD

Preis: ab rund 450 Euro
----------------------------

Pricing seems ok good infact, until I realised the processors seemed underpowered just a notch. If Sony bumped the processors to 4250U, 4550U and 4650U respectively then it would be an instabuy. The HD5000 seems to be only used in the Macbook airs.

The high res 15 seems like an interesting proposition due to the price unique resolution.

 

ArsTechnica and Engadget both call these VAIO Flip, not VAIO Fit. Who is calling this convertible design the VAIO Fit?

 

I agree, the idea of a full-power (even quad-core) computer in an Ultrabook size body was the main reason I bought a Z. The pro doesn't even remotely interest me, and I was sad to see that it was their idea of a successor. But just saying ULV doesn't mean the same thing it did last gen. There are a lot more options in the ULV space with Haswell: There is a big difference between the 4558U, which is 28W (but still a U), 2.8 ghz, with Iris 5100 graphics,
the 4650U, 15W, 1.7 ghz with HD 5000 graphics,
and the 4500U, 15W, 1.8 ghz with HD 4400 graphics.

These are all ULV but I know I'd much prefer the 4558U, and even the 4650U (similar in CPU but one generation newer in graphics) over the 4500U. This is why I have been considering getting the DUO (which can be configured with a 4650U) although I would probably never buy a PRO (4500U max). The 4500U is very much a low power entry level proc, for machines who want to say they offer "up to i7" without really needing to worry about the problems that come with a real i7 i.e. cooling, etc. In fact, I'd even argue in some ways the i5-4350U is better than the i7-4500U since it comes with HD 5000 graphics. Although, if I'm being completely honest I'd say I don't see THAT much difference between the 4650U and the 4500U, and it only costs $50 extra, so I'm really not sure why you would offer the 4500U at all given the very minor .1 ghz lower clock speed and the pretty major generation jump in graphics.

I know the 4558U is going to be in the Zenbook Infinity (or 301, or whatever they call it) and I'm pretty hopeful there will be SOME decent (i.e. non-15W) options for the X240, which right now pretty much means the 4558U as it's the only 28W that has been announced/released so far. Their 12" line has pretty much always offered pretty powerful processors and I would be very surprised (although I won't say it's impossible) if the only processor options for the X240 were 15W procs.

Anyways, I don't think full power portable laptops are dead, but they appear to be in a lapse for a few years. Sony was fitting 45W quad-core and 35W dual-core procs into 0.66" thin chassis two years ago, there's no physical reason why they couldn't now; it's completely a market demand thing. As we increase battery life/decrease power consumption, decrease heat generation, decrease cost, it will come back again. I hope. I think/hope soon we will see the full-power laptops that exist now, meaning mostly 6-8 pound desktop replacements, get significantly more portable, real desktops start to phase out a bit, and some more powerful portable laptops that aren't ultrabooks come back.

 

Sony does. See the new video their in-house "news" organization, SGNL, posted of an interview with a member of the "Sony Vaio Product Team"



They call them the:
"Vaio Fit 15A Flip PC", "Vaio Fit 14A Flip PC", "Vaio Fit 13A Flip PC", and do not name the 11 inch in the overlays, just referring to it as "the eleven inch".