Vaio Flip: the Yoga hinge comes to Sony

Thx twospirits for your post! I would be super thankful for some battery lifetime measurements

 

I was hoping for sata or msata hdd for upgrade, but this type of drive is very expensive and rare, at least its upgradable. There is probably error on sony store because similar drive on vaio pro 13 costs 3x more for upgrade.

 

I'll take any suggestion on how to accomplish a battery test. Is there an app that puts a video in a constant loop while recording the time until it dies? i can't see myself staring at the device all day until it dies, the family thinks I'm weird as it is, imagine them seeing me just staring at the device for hours. lol

I figure since I have almost everything in external drives or in the cloud except the stuff i am working on at that moment, the 128GB SSD would tie me over until the prices go down on that particular type of drive. Then again, I may end up upgrading to another convertible by the time I fill up my drive with stuff.

TS

 

Just got mine from bestbuy too. I have to put my ear next to the pc to hear the fan noise.
Two things that I'm more concern about is it is a bit warm and I barely running anything like video, photoshop..
I'm updating to 8.1 now to see if I have more room left cause it had only 59GB from the 128 GB when I updated window 8 essential update stuff.
Wish bestbuy has the 256 GB model ( 13 inches 8 GB ram). I'm thinking to return the 13 inches and get the 14 or 15 inches instead but I'm hesitating at the heavier weight.. The bestbuy store where I live they don't have a demo for 14 and 15 inches models. ( sigh)

 

Hi, I am trying to figure out if I can manually upgrade SSD on the 14 inches one, and I tried to read several pages but then realized that this is really a long post (61 pages). Could anyone here do me a favor and tell me the answer? Thanks a lot!

 

Hi there, first post ever on this forum so please forgive any noobishness on my part.

Basically I'm looking at convertible ultrabooks and I'm torn between a vaio flip 13a and a Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro, I was sold on the Yoga 2 after reading reviews complaining about the flip's fan noise. But now learning about the Yoga 2's colour problems with it's screen and posts from owners here saying the fan noise isn't that bad on the flip I'm in the air again.

The main reason the fan noise would bother me is that I'd be using the flip to watch (mainly YouTube) videos in bed, and a loud fan would be annoying, but if it's not that bad a videos sound would probably drown it out.

Basically I'm asking people who have the flip whether the fan is noticeable during video play back, sorry for rambling.

 

Unless someone gets a 14 inch and opens it up like I did, i don't know if you will get the answer you seek. Now, I can't tell from the teardown video posted previously in the thread whether that is a 14 inch or a 15 inch in the video since both those models have a ethernet port like in the video, but since both of those are more similar in components i do not see why it shouldn't be upgradable, especially since the smaller version the 13A that I teared down a few posts back shows that the ssd is removable/upgradable (providing one finds a replacement).

Speaking of upgradable parts, maybe I should start a accessories thread on the Flip series. I already started to buy stuff like a shoulder bad and stylus clip for the device.

TS

Go back a few posts and check my video of the 13A, I do hear the fan, but its low (at least for me) and if you are going to be playing video or audio, I do not think the fan noise will be noticeable at all. But my hearing might not be as fine tuned as others so my advice is if you can go check it out in the store, then do so. Best Buy should have the devices on display by this weekend. At least that is what the rep told me when I picked up mine yesterday. They didn't have the devices out on display, (they got them in that morning) and according to his work sheet they were to be on display that afternoon. Luckily for me he was nice enough to set up the 13A and I played with it and bought it on the spot.So bottom line is to go check it out at the store and see if the fan noise is too much for you.

Good luck on your purchase whatever that may be.

TS

 

Yeah, of course^^

so here it is. You will need Imtec Battery Mark.

Source
Imtec Battery Mark Free Download - Battery Managers

1. Unpack and install Battery Mark
2. Go to windows enery options and set disable screen to "never"
3. In windows energy options set standby (or hibernation, don't know the exact calling) to "never"
4. Set screen brightness to 40%
5. Start windows command prompt (windows search for "cmd") and enter "ping -t www.ign.com" without quotes of course
-this will keep your wifi active, you can use any other website
-this will run until you close the cmd box or hit CTRL+C
6. unplug power cable
7. Start Battery Mark
9. Go to menu "Test" and activate "no CPU load"
10. In menu "Test" select normal mode and click start
11. Save the reportsfile somewhere you will find it again.
12. Let the laptop run untill battery is empty

For me battery lifetime with wifi is most important. Instead of step 5 you could also run some video in a loop.

 

Just got news from sony that they started on my order and shipping will happen between 4-11 and 10-11. On sony site it says 7-11 and 14-11 since I've placed my order. I guess the date in the mail is more accurate.

 

If you need to put your ear next to the fan to hear noise then that is excellent news IMO! I am very sensitive to loud fans while typing, but otherwise if using something CPU intensive fine with the noise. You may wish to consider returning for the 256GB model depending on your needs. I lasted for a very long time on my old Vostro V13 which I had upgraded with a 128GB samsung SSD - mainly word and PP use but if I recall had a good 70-80GB free with a win 7 install, and win 8 is less isn't it? Is it possible there is a sony recovery partition that you can copy and then delete to free us some space?

Personally I would be wary of win 8.1 as I see there are new drivers being released all the time on the Sony website which suggests things aren't ready for the big time yet? I upgraded my desktop to win 8.1 and had intel WiFi dropout problems which took a while to sort out the drivers.

 

I updated to win 8.1 yesterday and it is horrible to use fingers touch on chrome.
On the plus side the trackpad saved the day without having a stylus.
I used it straight 6 hours yesterday with 100% brightness setting and still had some juice left.
( I only did web search with 10+ sites open simultaneously )
It was late at night and my other two roommates were with me but nobody heard any fan noise at all.
I don't know because I updated to win 8.1 therefore it is more quiet now vs before with window 8 ( still have to put my ear next to the fan to hear the noise but it is even more subtle now after updating to 8.1) . It is also cooler than prior to the update. I don't have wifi issue either.

The only thing didn't change is the storage I have only 51 GB left now and I have not even installed anything yet ( most of my stuff is on the cloud but still need to install photoshop, camtasia, movie maker...)
I guess I have no choice to return and upgrade to 256 SSD through Sony ( they take forever to ship :-( )

Anyway, this flip pc is much better than the duo 13. IMO. It does not hurt my wrists when typing like the duo13.

 

Ok finally good impressions! The 51 GBs of free storage is bad news considering the 256 SSD costs 150euros plus...isn't there any way to free some space?? 80, 90 GBs would be good but with 50 GBs is almoast impossible to work...even with the cloud and an external HDD i think...what do you guys think??

 

couple pages before I have posted links for recovering space, first you can create your own stripped windows install without unwanted stuff like additional languages etc. and then you can disable hibernation and page file, and move recovery to usb drive. this way you should use only about 10 gb for install

 

And is there some kind of tutorial? I will google it later thanks...118 GB of space would be gold

 

if anybody is interested in upgrading drive you can search them by adding 'macbook'
macbook ssd 256 in Drives, Storage & Blank Media | eBay

those longer ones should fit

 

Thanks allot, you've all been loads of help. Think I'm pretty much sold on a flip 13 now, alas it's a bit of a wait before I'll be able to get one here in the UK.

 

So you think you noticed a decrease in fan noise when changing to win8.1 from 8? That is very interesting. I will see what the noise is like on win 8 and go from there. Have you run into any further driver problems?

 

Im still really curious about the battery life, hasnt someone done any measurment with the 13A?

 

I'm also very curious about the performance of the 14 and 15 inch models. I'm from Holland and here they won't be released before the end of november, are there regions where these models have already been released? And has anyone already had the chance to try them out?

I'm considering preordering a vaio flip but I'm not sure which size suits me best and which is the best choice considering heat/fan noise. Anyway, thank you very much for all information that has already been shared!

 

Thanks.

That would be helpful, if you come across one, please post the link to it.

I'm at a loss as to what a OS update would do to make the fan noise less?

I'm running the test now thanks to the app that Cursy mentioned, (couldn't earlier since I was out of town all day). Hopefully by morning, I'll get the results in the text file.
Interesting to note, that when placing the cursor over the battery icon before starting the app it stated half an hour ago 5 hrs 58 min (98%) and I placed the cursor over it now and it says 6 hours and 48 mins left (94%).

TS

 

Wow I could live with 6 hrs 48min

 

Awesome, somebody that has used both the Duo and the flip. I currently own the duo, and it is absolutely silent. I love it to pieces, but the track pad is just a bit too small. Can you compare the fan noise on the flip to that of the duo? How is the writing input in comparison?

 

Well lets not get our hopes up just yet, that is what the icon is saying, lets see what the battery test results say.

TS

 

Honestly I only noticed the noise on this machine because there were two OP said it was too loud for them and that they had to return it for that reason. Nobody around me heard the noise unless we bend our heads down and put our ears next to the vent. I was wondering if I'm lucky to get a non-defective machine or the OP got lemons? But then so far only two people with that problem so I think might be they didn't do a window update when they first unboxing it? I thought I heard some noises and it was a bit warm when I first turned it on, but all went a way after I ran the update. This machine stayed cool even on tablet mode while the duo 13 could get really warm.
The track pad on the duo 13 is a joke and it is a dream on the flip. I'm using this flip 6-8 hours a day without the stylus but I couldn't do that with the duo.

Update: just found in vaio control center there are 3 options to set for the fan: silence, standard, performance. Sony explained in details when to use which mode for :
http://screencast.com/t/Tdg5sLrJY

So I changed to silence and after a minute or so I put my ear next to vent and there is completely no noise.

 

I read duo gets 9 hours though, this flip isn't supposed to be close

 

I was comparing the track pad and keyboard. My wrists hurt when typing with the duo but not with the flip - even when I spent 6-8 hours with it. Regarding the battery, yes the duo lasts longer. I don't know why they couldn't add the same battery like the duo -it would make the flip an almost perfect machine

 

It is actually controlled via Vaio Control Center- under CPU and Fan. I don't remember seeing this icon before updating to win-8.1 or not. But anyway, I posted the update in previous post

-----
Update: just found in vaio control center there are 3 options to set for the fan: silence, standard, performance. Sony explained in details when to use which mode for :
http://screencast.com/t/Tdg5sLrJY

So I changed to silence and after a minute or so I put my ear next to vent and there is completely no noise.

-------

 

When I placed the order with Sony on the 10th Oct, the shipping date was between 15/10 and 11/11. I've just received an email from Sony saying:-

We are pleased to inform you that production of your customised VAIO laptop has now started

We expect your VAIO order to be shipped from the factory between 04.11.2013 and 09.11.2013 and onto our European
logistics centre where it will be dispatched to you. Please note that this is an estimated shipping date to our
warehouse and you will need to allow 2-3 days extra for shipping onto the UK. The order cannot be cancelled. We will
send you an update should this estimated date change.

So I guess I will receive it mid November as I originally expected. I thought there may have been a delay with the new high res screens, but no.

The machine spec is:-

Intel® CoreTM i7-4500U 1.8 GHz
Windows 8 Pro
1 TB Serial ATA (5400 rpm)
16 GB 1600 MT/s DDR3L-SDRAM
NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 735M 2 GB
39.5cm LED, 2880x1620
With digitizer stylus (pen)

Can't wait, particularly with the now positive news regarding these laptops on this forum.

 

Great news. Excited about the results!

By the way, here is a review of the 15inch Flip
Sony VAIO Flip 15 (SVF15N190X) Review & Rating | PCMag.com

 

Hi, I'm new to the forum and read the most of this thread.
Thanks a lot for everyone's useful feedback.
The wifi issue was a no go for me but I'm happy to read that the few people who got it didn't experience any issue.
Another review indicated that there was a lot of flex in the keyboard.
Since I imagine a lot of flip users would also be using it like a laptop (decent amount of typing), would be great to get some feedback on that.
@TS: do you feel that it makes any difference? Would it be possible to make a few secs clip to see how "flexy" the keyboard gets?
I'm also very interested to know the accessoires you bought, especially the stylus holder.

Thanks a lot guys

 

how to reduce windows installation size
Customize Windows 8 Installation & Create Unattended Setup ISO
how to disable other services
How to Increase the Free Space on the Surface Pro | Pocketnow

"Some have been able to get Windows 8 down to only about 9Gb."

 

Doesn't that assume you *have* a Windows 8 installation DVD? I have never received such a DVD with any Vaio.

 

I still have hope for this machine after the first reviews of buyers on this forum. But does anybody have an explanation for the awful benchmark scores in the reviews (PCMark etc.)? Is it all in the HDD? Did anybody do a benchmark with an SSD in it?

 

Well actually the Multi-Flip is pretty average and not awful. See this -> PC Magazine
Unfortunately, they have no comparison with laptops with the same CPU, but our closest bet is the i5-4200U. In the PC-Mark test, the Multi-Flip is pretty bad compared to the others, but in the other tests, Multi-Flip get better scores compared to i5-4200U units. I know that a SSD gives much better scores in Pcmark, however, the Multi-Flip in the test has 1 TB mechanical drive and 16 GB cache SSD. I do not know how the 16 GB cache SSD works with PCMark7, because a SSD chache has certain limits and it could be that the PCMark7 dont take advantage of the SSD cache. But for instance, the Lenovo Ideapad U430 touch has a SSD cache as well as a mechanical drive, and get much better scores in PCMark7, but lower scores in the other tests. It's pretty weird, but i think that the SSD cache in Multi-Flip isnt utliized in the PCMark7 test.

 

I hope that the order scheduled to be shipped between 3-11 and 8-11 will be shipped this week.. I am getting excited about it as the latest user reviews, (here on the forum) are getting more positive.
I guess that there are none already have a shipping notice from a batch before the 3th, as I guess this is the first 'custom build' batch..

 

I'd say compared to the other current gen i5-4200U machines it's pretty awful. Those ones are like 35% faster (!) in the PCMark, while they have an lower clocked i5 (instead of the i7 in the flip). But maybe it's the SSD, let's wait for some other benchmarks..

 

I'd bet it's the SSD. Depending on how the SSD/NAND cache is used by the OS makes a huge difference. I think the HDD cache is intended to store frequently used programs and OS files to make for faster program startup. The algorithm used for the cache is determined by the hard drive firmware. The Lenovo uses a M.2/NGFF SSD as a seaparate cache drive which, afaik, is controlled by the Lenovo software. That allows it to act as an actual cache - allowing the machine to "complete" a write operation at SSD speeds even though the actual spinning disk may take tens or hundreds of milliseconds longer on every operation, significantly slowing down any benchmark which requires write access to the disk.

IMHO, whomever at Sony sent out eval units for review with a spinning drive was an absolute idiot.

 

^^^This. Seriously. The first batch of reviews is not really indicative of performance, because who is really going to want the HDD? I'm looking forward to a review by notebookcheck and mobiletechreview.

 

What about writing with the stylus? Are you noticing any lag with the flip? Can you compare the overall writing experience to that of the Duo? You've been most helpful so far. I have a custom flip 15a on order, but after some early negative impressions I was just considering cancelling it, I think I may still go ahead with the purchase, just kind of frustrated that 'anticipated' ship isn't until December.

 

Perhaps power management or cleaner code allowing a reduction in CPU cycles reducing the heat generated? Anandtech noticed a massive 25% increase in battery life in the surface pro 2 when upgrading to the win 8.1 so perhaps a knock-on benefit? TBH even if I don't know how it does it, if it is quieter that seems good to me!

 

You're in luck, we have our Flip review unit in house and will have a review this week. On another note, I'm really surprised that the Flip and Tap 11 ship with Windows 8.0 rather than 8.1.

 

Yes, finally a review which can be really called review! Have been waiting for this! Hopefully it is the 13inch Flip. Flip mechanism durability, battery lifetime and digitizer reactiveness and fan noise are the most important things for me. Would be super great if your review covers this^^

 

interesting, so if you drained it all the way at that rate it seems to be about 5.5 hours of battery life. Not great, but not bad. However most battery life tests use a brightness of 40% or so, I wonder how much of a difference that would make..

 

Yes it's the 13" 13A model. Right now I'm battling with Vaio Update and Sony's website throwing 403 errors when I try to download any update, including the required Vaio Care update so I can move this beast to Windows 8.1.

 

This unit from Best Buy doesn't come with a stylus. I'm still waiting for Sony to ship my order. Right now without the stylus it is impossible to use chrome after updating to 8.1. My fingers I touch one thing and it does a different thing. I have to use the track pad.instead.

 

Is the dpi/image size setting in windows higher than 100%? I heard that chrome doesn't correct the touch input for this setting.

 

@McMagnus
your "dvd" is in recovery partition, but you can legally download it and us it with your original key:
How to Install Windows 7 Without the Disc | PCWorld
but without reinstall you should shrink your system size to 9-12gb, with stripped install you could go to 5gb

 

To fix the small icons in chrome post windows 8.1 you just modify some setting within Google Chrome itself. Enter chrome://flags in the chrome address bar. Find and enable the following keys: Enable Touch Events, Touch Optimized UI, and HiDPI Support. You must restart Chrome for the changes to take effect. Credit goes to brianbrain from the Lenovo forum for the fix.

Also, you said you have the Duo, why not just use that stylus to test? Same as the one that ships with the flip.

 

Has to do with the kernal version update to 6.3 alongside several improvements. The kernel is supposedly "more deeply optimized, allowing for faster boot times, a smaller disk footprint and better power consumption; however, the actual UI will not be significantly altered compared to Windows 8."

 

Great news! I'm looking forward to it. I know you are fond of your Duo 13, so I really look forward to your comparisons between the two.

However I was almost hoping you would land a 15a with the discrete graphics.I'm very curious to see the benchmarks with the gpu. Also, as others here have also mentioned, I'm hoping some ordered the 14" w/SSD, as this may be the sweet spot for battery life (smaller screen, bigger battery over 13).