Vaio Z being *replaced* by Vaio Duo 11?

Probably a good summary, but:

1. Why doesn't a full fledged CPU fit in that 2013 reality? I'm not saying you're wrong, but the general feeling is that new Win8 laptops will be aimed at consumers in the couch, not IT-professionals. But IT-professionals won't just go away. What can we buy to fill the shoes of our Zs? If this goes really bad/good, perhaps Microsoft will alienate us altogether and we'll buy open Linux laptops? Could be a golden opportunity for Ubuntu?

2. The PMD problem Sony has with Win8 today must be possible to fix, it can't possibly be inherent to Win8?

 

Well, yes, having a powerfull workhorse (that is, no Core-U) is great, but not enough in the world of Win8 and Intel ultra-"inspirations". At least, if you pretend to be in the prime segment. Sony might have simply added touch screen to its current model and pushed it to the market as it actually did with T, E series and the rest of. Instead, it switched to hydrid PC-Tablet chassis. So Z is under reconceptualization now and took a pause.

A roadmap may look like (surely, is not limited to):
1. Powerfull horse (simply a PC for simply doing/making your IT/CEO work/image) with increased number of pixels in 13 or 14" FullHD/Retina sexy body
2. Superlight ultrabook with swivel-, twist or yoga-like concept, that is, touchscreened PC-tablet mix
3. Third way of unexpected compromise between those above (as Sony usually does).

 

The reason why Sony is having a problem with the PMD and Windows 8 is because their Lightpeak drivers (a proprietary connection that they use to work the external GPU in tandem with the laptop in windows 7) were made with Windows 7 in mind, not Windows 8.

Also, the folks at Sony were prob. already planning on discontinuing the Z before/by the Windows 8 launch so they did not bother updating the drivers to fix compatibility issues. This is perhaps another reason why the Z models were never updated with Windows 8.

 

IMO, Lightpeak was developed and released by Intel, not Sony. I think it is Intel should updates Lightpeak diver to support Windows 8 othen than Sony does it on their own.

 

yes you are right in that Intel did develop and release it- the point that I was trying to make was that Sony customized the interface to use one of their proprietary connectors in order to make the external GPU solution work with the components onboard the Z.

 

Z is discontinued in Japan. That's all, folks!:hi2:

 

How do you know? Give us a link pls.

 

The grand link itself is sony.jp. No longer listed in the lineup. Just one single model in the biz-store. Great sale! Hurry up!

 

I saw that, but still didn't get a chance to read something more "official"

 

It's only a matter of time before the US model gets sold out

At this point I have resigned myself to this fact and will just by a souped up S13 Premium (which BTW, would still cost less than the base i7 Z3).

The hallmark of the golden age of ultraportables has left. Now we welcome a new age- the age of the Duo 11. (its up to you to decide whether that is a good thing or a bad thing)

 

well, this is my story. I badly wanted to replace my z1 with z3 but it costed a fortune, so i started looking at duo 11. Then one day i had a chance to play with it in Austria and man, i really didnt like that sliding mechanism, everything else is fine, more or less, but since i am a developer i really need some juicy resources to be able not to get a nervouz breakdown every now and then. Then, thank God, i spotted a high-end z3 (see my sig) and it costed me 2k eur, the very same config costs approx 4200 eur on sony uk. Crap, i had to buy it, so i did. Did i regret it? Never! Would i do it again? Especially now that z is obsolete? Sure, any time. My advice - r u a developer? Go for z3. U r not? Go for duo 11, u dont need more than that. Or Vaio SA 13.

 

The ultraportable age pretty much left when Panasonic stopped making the CF-J (10.1" with full i7, SSD, and up to 16GB of RAM). The Z was too big at 13" to be considered an ultraportable. Maybe in weight, but not screen size. UPs used to be like 11" and smaller. Panasonic's AX isn't what I'd even remotely call a replacement for the J.

If you want a portable powerhouse, get a Panasonic NX or SX. Those are really the only ones left.

 

I would not really call the Panasonics very portable because they are heavy and thick. I still stand by my previous statement about the Vaio S13 Premium

 

I have to agree here. That Panasonic looks like a machine to be used in war times only. And Vaio SA is a real beauty.

 

Would you be so kind as to share your technique for buying things at half their normal price?

 

No problem although this will show some private info which I hope nobody will misuse ...

I had been looking for a brand new SVZ for nearly a month and I even had dealt with some UK company which sent me a specification for quite a good Z model, but in the end, they retrieted due to some warranty issues (BTW I didn't buy that story). Anyways, as always, here comes eBay.

It says refurbished, but trust me, it was brand new. After I had bought the machine, a Sony guy in our local Sony Centre told me that that's exactly the model one guy had planned to buy (or bought, don't know which one), but supposedly didn't like the color so he returned it as brand new as far as I understood. Well, I sent a 2k EUR offer to Asaboshi Systems, the seller, and they accepted it

Got the laptop, everything came by DHL in perfect order and condition. Couldn't have been happier more that I am. The UK store quoted approx 1750 GBP price for far worse configuration than what I have now. Just the 512GB disk is a killer - the price diff between this and 256GB is unreal.

Oh I forgot - I've got the PMD as well, it's not really shown in the eBay photos (as it's wrapped, but it came along as well) and the PMD was nowhere near in those 1750 GBP from the UK store ...

EDIT: The German shop wrote Sony Vaio SV-Z1311C011N as the model, but that doesn't even exist AFAIK, but model reads as Sony Vaio SV-Z1311C5E.

 

Clearly you have NO idea what you're talking about. The Panasonics - and specifically the SX and NX - are under 3lbs. Now, thicker is relative. Are they paper thin? No. It's a notebook. As someone who has owned a ton of Sonys as well as some Panasonics over the years (including currently the Duo 11 AND the Panasonic J10), you're way off. The one thing Sony has taught me is that style is nice, but that in no way means durable or good. My J has a 1TB SSD (which I put in; Sony makes upgrading a pain for the most part) and 16GB of RAM. Sony hasn't been able to support 16GB of RAM in virtually ANY machine. That's a no-go for me. They are bigger AND heavier than the Panasonics. The only thing Sony really has on Panasonic outside of some style is screen quality - there I won't disagree.

But I'm not running my multiple VMs when I need to do demos and presentations on a Sony.

I'm not a fanboy of anyone, and I love Sony's stuff, but Sony is not a powerhouse when it comes to machines. The Z was not a beast and underpowered for real work. I have the 1st generation Z from what, 2009. Nice machine, but my Panasonics have always smoked them in power.

And let's not even get into build quality - again thick is relative. But the Panasonics take a beating. I've killed Sonys because they are not really durable.

To each his or her own, but heavy? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

The Duo is my current daily machine FWIW (with the J still in use as well). It does the day to day stuff just fine. If I could have 16GB, that would be great. But I can't.

The Helix is going to be interesting against something like the Duo, but it too looks like a closed box with no real room for replacing parts. Shame. We've devolved.

 

This is what I have to say:

1. 16GB of RAM? How many tabs (of ?) do you need to have open at the same time? On a more serious note, what are you actually running that needs 16GB of RAM. What is the extra 4 GB of RAM over the 12GB gonna do?

2. The Panasonics take a beating huh? Well, unless you are running your Dodge RAM (is it 16GB?) over them, VAIOs are quite durable. I know what you are saying about their durability and I agree, but generally VAIOs are not known as machines that fall apart or have a large amount of stability issues.

3. You killed Sonys? Did you use an AK-47?

4. Thickness? Even if a light machine is thick, it can greatly hamper use and portability. A feather that is a few inches thick wouldn't do a bird much good y'know.

5. Panasonics smoking Vaio Zs huh? I think that you are missing the point of the Z. It is meant to be a powerful notebook that can smoke ultrabooks, which since both they and the Z have thin chassis have limited space so it is understandable that much thicker machines like your lovely Panasonics can 'smoke them' (though I must say they really should break that habit).

6. Upgradeability. Yeah, well you gotta deal with it- it is an unavoidable trend of the market as the tablet-laptop singularity starts to come about.

I may not have all the ideas to back up what I speak (or write) but sir (or ma'am), please remember to consider other viewpoints and actually do some research before coming to a forum which is a hub for EDUCATED discussions.

 

If I had to chose a machine up to 15 or 16" and not caring about size and weight it would most definitely be a Dell Precision M4700. And that Panasonic really is one ugly brick.

 

Same here- I want at least some form to my device. However, I think that if I had to not care about the size and weight of a 15 inch laptop I would definitely go with the Lenovo W530.

 

Some of us actually do work with our laptops and don't just surf the Internet like you

Seriously, I have the Vaio Z3 with the 8 GB of RAM, if a 12 or 16 GB option had been available I would have taken it. I do Java Enterprise development so I'm typically running a heavy weight IDE, a database server as well as one or more heavy application servers. Throw in a web browser, email application, various other apps and VMs and it adds up quick.

 

At times I can run up to 8 or so VMs. And I usually dual boot machines with client and server. Right now my J10 is dual boot Win 8/Windows Server 2012.

If you were constantly on the road as I have been for well over 10 years, I can tell you that ALL of my older Sonys (U70P, SZ90, Z90) developed issues from wear and tear on the road. The Duo 11 is OK so far - it's been on teh road a lot since November. Each one was sent back to Japan (since they were imports) at least once. The custom RAID on the Z90 died, had the screen go on the SZ (moreso due to someone putting their chair back on the plane), etc. None of that has happened with any of the Panasonics I've owned. The trackpad is dying on my J10 right now but that is normal wear and tear of nearly 24x7 use for almost 18 months. It's going in for repair soon. The build quality while good on the Sonys - especially when made in Japan - doesn't compare to the more rugged durability of the Panasonics. I say this as someone who likes Sony and have and do currently own both.

See #2. I don't care how much you baby a Sony, it's not road rugged. At least not in my experience.

VPC-Z .98"
J10 1.5"
SX 1"

So at most with the J10 it's another 1/2" inch. Call out the height police! The SX is *just as thick*.as your precious Z (.02 difference which is imperceptible).

And I like how you now have to backpedal on weight. Sucks not actually having used or seen them, huh?

So try again with the Panasonics are so much thicker than teh Sony. They're not.

And that is the point of the J10 and SX/NX. And let's not mince words: the whole external GPU things was asinine.

The fact Sony can't run 16GB doesn't put it in the same powerful class as the Panasonics.

Use your own argument here - you've been proven wrong on everything. Oh, and I own both Sony and Panasonic. Can you say the same? Look at my history of posts here. Sounds like it's you who need an education.

 

The Z may rise from the ashes as there just does not seem to be any "true" successor....
Plus that anyletterZ theme of ultraportables shouldn't be going anytime soon, after all Z505,PCG- Z1, SZ, Z T Z,etc all seem to be "those don't care about the price just give me the biggest powerhouse in the world in the smallest case you can" sort of notebooks. I have tried my family's Early-2011 Z with the GT330M and a Westmere i7 and it blows away my hand-me-down SZ fair and square.

 

Of course the newer Z will blow away the SZ. My Duo probably blows away my SZ90 - it's nearly 10 years newer. Not a fair comparison.

You have it a bit wrong on the nomenclature. The T series was about size. The S was more sexy, and that whole line around that time (TZ, SZ) pretty much had a Z after it. But after that line, the S became more utilitatian and the Z became the sexy one again. I loved the S which then begot the SZ which then led to the Z. The S/SZ/Z was more about power, the T series (not the modern) more about portability with ULVs.

The T was always as expensive if not more than the SZ/Z due to the miniaturization. I remember when top shelf TTs were like $4k-ish.

Sony needs to get back to a premium notebook outside of the Duo in the 11 inch range, although years ago something like the DUo probably would have been closer to $3k. The U70 was $2k+.

Sony has always had some sort of smaller (sub 14", even if not ultraportable) more stylish upper end notebook in the line, and I remember when they phased out the SZ people didn't know what was coming and we got the first gen Z. I think we're in that transition. le.Sony will probably introduuce something in the spring/early summer timeframe. That's when the SZ and Z were introduced if memory serves me correctly. Sony's pretty predictable.

 

You do not class machines based on how much they RAM they contain. It is typically done by CPU/GPU and storage solutions. oh BTW, the Z3 has a thickness of .66 inches NOT .98. Not like the height matters that much but still, the Panasonics are not in the same class.

You are comparing apples to oranges here. Panasoics were made to take a beating while Sony's were made to look good for normal use. Considering that most Vaios are not business machines, I have to say that the Sonys held up quite well.

For me CPU power makes a machine more powerful than RAM and your 2640M is not nearly as good as the quad core Z3.

Lastly, I can say the same- I have used both Sonys and Panasonics quite extensively and find that unless you are talking about the full blown Toughbooks, there is no comparison between Sonys and their Panasonic counterparts.

 

The Vaio Duo 11 seems like another MS Surface, Tpad Yoga,etc. Perhaps the Z refresh will come but Sony likes killing their line after 2-3 years SZ,TZ,FW,F,AR,etc and the new Z (R.I.P (prob) 2008-2012 you served us VAIOans well) is long overdue. However, if they do renew the Z/make the successor it would be nice to make something like the 2008-2011 Z1s with the built-in BD,DVD,CD drives and a nice GFX card like the self sufficient 330M (Approx:5650) in the 2010/2011 Z1X

Outcomes:
New 13inch anyletterZ comes out Ex:Z4XX or XZ (Perhaps it is that thin)
Sony moves to the Ultrabooks and leaves all super thin ultra-portable Notebooks to rot

PS:Just retried the Early-2011 Z and that thing is lightning compared to our (replaced family desktop) Precision M6400 in a boot race!

 

Tell me it isn't true! The Z HAS to come back. The 2010 VAIO Z, that is.

I'm no fan of the PMD---I'm still on a VPCZ11 with hybrid GPU, the sweetest setup with the best matte screen that was ever dreamt up by a notebook engineer. I've been looking and looking for a replacement of this machine. The S13 almost does it but: 1) Need to lose the optical drive and 2) I hear the screen quality on the S13 is terrible. Other machines maybe come close but are still limited to 1366x768. Dell XPS 14 almost does it but has ULV and lousy trackpad.

Conclusion: AAARGH!

 

Same here Visual Studio, Eclipse, Blend, etc. 16 gigs would be great and 32 ideal

 

And me to - I do development with eclipse with huge projects needing a lot of threads and memory (not to mention fast file access) to be manageable. Currently running GWT dev mode, Jboss, Apache, etc. My work laptop is a big monster, but its dual core and hard drive slow it way down compared to the Z3. Luckily they just put 16gig into my work laptop so it's been acting a bit nicer.

I'm sure lots of folks who do major multimedia transcoding tasks could benefit as well (tho the one guy I know who does graphics jobs has a server with something crazy like 128gig ram and 64 cores spread among many processors.

____________________
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GTX 675M + i7 Haswell+ 2010 Z stuff (BD Drive,Hybrid GFX sys (well 2008-2010),etc) + 3k Price tag= Match made in heaven

 

Everything you said, I agree with except for the BD drive... they should at the very least offer you the option of swapping out the BD Drive for a modular SSD.

Honestly, this was a feature that Dells had way back in 2001.... I used to have a Dell where I could swap out the CD drive for modular extra battery or modular extra HD. The thing was ahead of its time, it even had 1440x900 resolution on a 14" screen, and even offered the option of 1600x1200 which I passed on... can we have really fallen this far that most laptops can't match that any more? 12 year old technology that noone is offering anymore? Even to us willing to shell out $3K?

Now you need to sweat breaking your warranty to do similar stuff. I did mod my 2010 Z to put in an extra SSD, but it wasn't exactly easy with all those tiny screws.

 

Strangely, this website states that some Vaio Z models do support Windows 8, and they're the ones with the PMD. Don't quite understand.
http://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/topics/windows_upgrade_offer#models2

 

That would be a good idea (no warranty broken and extra storage) another good idea would be to add 16GB DDR3-1866 as an option to the mix. The PMD has to go we want an ULTRAPORTABLE wherewe can watch movies, crunch numbers, play games all while in the seat of a 777

BTW: When did the 2011 Z refresh come out as ours fits the description of the 2010 "VPCZ1" (was a CTO) with the 330M and built-in BD/DVD drive.

 

I have tested the Duo 11 in the Sony store yesterday. The conclusion: Only a Z-series will replace my Z-series. Case closed.

 

Ok buddy, we get it. You like the Z series. No point in spamming your opinion about it and your fb page everywhere you think there is an opportunity....

 

Let him enjoy the moment. I know I am enjoying mine

 

I believe they will being out another version of the Z series. They must keep the Z line going. When you look at Sony's latest top model Phone and Tablet now called the Z it only makes sense they also continue the laptop models too.

 

Sorry mate, but my reply was perfectly reasonable and on topic. I was just stating that in my opinion the Duo 11 cannot replace the Z. If you would read my long post in the owners lounge, you would realise that I see the Z-series very critical and even think it is surpassed by the goold old X-series in terms of build-qualiity, screen and portability.

 

I do agree. I myself tried the Duo 11 and no way, not even in dreams, can Duo 11 replace the Z.

 

Just to add my bit to this discussion,

I have spoken to someone reliable when it comes to these matters and have been assured that the Z is cumming back. This is "apparently" been confirmed by their supply side managers in japan. Take it as you will could be true or total rubbish but I will wait a few months, In the mean time will try and pick up a second hand unit but so hard to find a Z3 only Z2 with sub par screen or ram.

I hope sony changed nothing on the Z apart from maybe more ram and higher resolution screen and if they scan squeeze a better gfx card on the unit and that is it, everything else perfect.

nothing can replace the Z but Z

 

I'm not sure what you meant by higher res, but Full HD is way more than one needs on a 13.1 inch screen. In fact, my old Z1 has 1600x900 and TBH, if I could chose I'd stick with something between that and Full HD, as the latter is giving me eye pain sometimes

And yes, I hope Sony guys realize than Duo 11 is NOT Z and never will be. My observation is that Duo 11 is for common folks, and Z for developers, however those truly rich should buy both.