Vaio Z build quality compared to Thinkpads?

I've owned several thinkpads in the past and have been very pleased with the quality and business ruggedness.

But I've never spend enough time with a Vaio Z to assess the overall build quality. Just played around with it in a showroom. For those who might have owned a few thinkpads how do you feel they compare? I am especially thinking of X-series like the 12" X200 or 13" X301 vs the Z?

No doubt the Z is a powerhouse especially with the multiple SSD setup and graphics but is it also a powerhouse on the build quality side?

 

I had a SZ, the hinges broke three times..

 

In terms of quality, Sony Vaio laptops are to Lenovo Thinkpads as Suzuki cars are to Hondas.

I.e. buy a Sony based on features or sexiness, but never on quality, unless you compare it to something even worse, like Acer, the KIA of the laptop world. If you want quality, Lenovo and Panasonic (the Mercedes-Benz option) are your two best bets.

 

My old thinkpad was much more rugged than my current z12.

 

I switched from a T500 (fprmer T60, T23) to a Z1 and I am not that worried. However this lappy is more sensitive but has less creaking than the T500 had.

It does not have RollCage and spill resistant keyboard, but still above average on terms of build quality.

 

I used a Thinkpad X for 3 years before switching to my Sony Z. The Z doesn't compare at all. The Z is on par with say an Macbook Pro. The Thinkpads are on another level. They're mil spec. I lugged my X all over the world a few times. It was dogged piled on buses, bore the brunt of a sandstorm and has hand more than a few beverages spilled on it. It still works perfectly except for pebble damage to the AR coating on the LCD due to the sandstorm. I have no qualms about tossing my backpack about with my X in it. I wouldn't do that with the Z.

 

I love my Vaio Z. Having said that, if you're not willing to baby it and you need ultra toughness, nothing beats the Lenovo Thinkpads and Panasonic Toughbooks.

 

Today I disassembled my friend's Vaio Z11 to check out the hinge. And to bend the hinge back into shape. He'd dropped it months ago and wasn't strong enough to put it right so I managed to get it all done. That aside, I had also brought my X200T along and let him toy around with it for a bit. He noticed that:
1) It is slightly heavier
2) Much more sturdier than his Vaio Z
3) A lot less sexy (I highly disagree)

He knows that I can drop it without worrying about it bending or contorting. And he's seen me sit and stand on it before (I weigh only 86kg).

 

Think of a ThinkPad as a BMW and a VAIO Z as a Ferrari.

The ThinkPad is as rugged and strong as hell but looks dull whereas the VAIO Z has all the lines, is desirable & has the exotic design & head turning looks but you just know that in an accident the BMW would come off best.

 

I agree with the responses here. The Sony Vaio Z is not as tough as a Thinkpad (instead, it's thin and light).

I'd also say that the HP business machines are pretty robust too - I dropped an HP a couple of times and never had any problems.

 

Nothing can beat the Lenovos - they are in fact very robust, BUT very ugly, boxy and heavy!!! No details are paid to screen quality, design, eye-candies - I'd say Lenovo T is the Lada Niva among cars ---> Terribly ugly, heavy and boxy, creaking, no extras, etc. - but it is very durable!

Sony Z on the other hand is an Audi Q7 - Much better looking, classy, comfortable... but just not designed for extreme conditions.

That's why I chose Vaio S - IMO it is somewhere in-between - it is a bit heavier than Z (1,98 kg), but out of magnesium ... it just feels more robust! I was going for the Z initially but it did not make a good impression to me - the S feels more durable indeed!

 

I don't know why people say that Thinkpads are heavy. A X201 weighs 2.89 pounds with the little battery which gives as much battery life as a Z with the standard battery under stamina. So it's lighter, not heavier than the Z. I personally love the way Thinkpads look. They look like what they are, professional machines for professionals. Can't beat the scratch resistent coatings. It's darn close to impossible to scratch a Thinkpad. If you do, just rub it a bit and it's gone. I love my Z but I do miss my X. They keyboard is on another level, the Z can't begin to compete there. If you don't need a GPU, the X201 at half the price of a Z is tough to pass up.

 

I'm specifically speaking about Lenovo T-series! Yes - they look exactly as something that's been given to you for work and you use it because you have to... Now that I think about it - this is the exact reason every single person I know is using one - given from his/her company ))) No wonder - your boss doesn't care about how it looks or how much it weighs

I admit Lenovo T is robust - BUT I would never buy one myself. (although the one time I actually dropped my T400 from 1m height it stopped working!!! Nothing broke on the outside, but I think the Motherboard was dead and had to be replaced.)

 

I had a T42, then a T60. The T60 was significantly larger, it didn't feel as well built, and I dreaded using it every time it booted up. In contrast, now and then I still use my T42, even though it's real old now. Linux still runs fine on it though. Comparing Z with the T42, it feels like the sturdiness of the T42 came at the cost of additional weight and size. I don't think Lenovo can match Sony in terms of performance per unit volume, so I would say it's an apples and oranges comparison.

I would have likened the Z to an R8, a high performance device...

 

Performance has nothing to do with it - How is a well configured T410i worse performance-wise than a Z? Of course if you compare your T42 to a Z it is like R32 and A2...

But you can purchase a well configured, i-CPU based T410i with SSD that would by no means be any slower than a Z... we're talking about build quality though, that has nothing to do with configuration.

 

Half the price? i5 X201 with 4GB Ram/320GB HDD is 1299 list. List on i5 Z with SSD is 1899. X you get smaller, lower res screen, no gpu, no optical...and it's only .3 lbs. lighter. Also no SSD @ $1299. Add in the SSD and you are only a few hundred $$$ Z's starting list and you still have no gpu, odd, etc.

And I'm speaking of real, list prices. Not crazy blowout deals on old models.

My point is you pay for the build of the thinkpad. To some, it's worth it.

 

From T42 to T60, it definitely got heavier. I think the T series is closer in capability to the Z, so I tend to think of those. And I agree with the keyboard statement, the Thinkpads' are great...

 

I'm talking about real prices. I know you consider them "unrealistic", you can always feel free to pay more. I prefer to pay less. The X201 with an i5 is $999. The X201 with an i7 is $1249. These are the prices right now on the Lenovo website. Where are you finding your inflated prices? Last week, the X201 with an i7 was on sale for $849. My rule of thumb is to never pay more than 60% of MSRP. I shoot for 50%. I got my Z for 50% off. Well, the first one. The second one I overpaid at 60% of MSRP. I've never bought a Thinkpad for more than 50% of MSRP. I've bought all of them directly from Lenovo. Just wait for a sale and then slap on the frequent 30% off coupons.

 

I think the X is more inline with the Z. They are both companies ultraportables. The T is more like an S. Bigger and cheaper.

 

T is not at all comparable to the S Have and use both every day and right now.
How exactly is S bigger than Z? Both are 13.3, there might be a few mm difference in the outer size if that is what you mean... but I don't think this is even worth mentioning.

S is a bit heavier than Z, but nothing comparable to Lenovo T.

What makes Z more expensive than S is the carbon which is the main reason for its lower weight and the better configuration (mainly SSD HDD(s), switchable graphics and higher resolution screen, which is not always a privilege). But if the difference in weight (S is still very light with under 2kg!) doesn't bother you and you don't necessarily need SSD or are willing to upgrade yourself - S definitely feels more robust and as a matter of fact is. The magnesium does its job very well.

That was the main reason I decided to go for an S instead of a Z as I had planned.

 

well, having Z/SR/S in the house, I agree S/SR does feel more robust.. however it's significantly bigger (depth) comparing to Z (about 2 cm), they are almost same in width. You also do feel difference in weight, but you do feel quality difference as well (left/right touchpad buttons for instance)... rest is pretty much similar.

Cheers,
Miki

 

I agree, when comparing one ultraportable to another In terms of performance, I (based on old knowledge) tend to think T would be closer to Z than X. I haven't really been looking at Thinkpads lately, I suppose I should just go away now

 

List for the i5/4gb is 1299.99 on lenovo.com. Yes you can find them cheaper but yes you can find Z's cheaper too (as you have done well there). Point is that comparing apples to apples and adding in SSD cost X is much higher than half the price of Z.

 

@ Travfar - the X you cited is 2gb ram/win7 premium/160gb hdd.

Win7 Pro/4gb is 1299.99

 

How did you come up with that? I priced a Win 7 pro/4GB config and it's $1129. I think it's safe to say that the prices Lenovo sells the laptops for are the "real" price and it's not "unreasonable" to accept that those are the prices. Where are you getting yours?

Regardless, no one should ever buy additional memory or HD space from the manufacturer. They will overcharge you for it. Both Amazon and Fry's has sold 4GB of DDR3 for $15-$20 in the last week, much cheaper than what Lenovo wants for the same. Also, Newegg is selling a 128GB SSD for $150. Much cheaper than the $380 Lenovo charges. On a X, it's trivial to swap it out. So the most cost effective thing to do is buy the base config and then upgrade with aftermarket parts.

But like I've said a gazillion times before. It's best to wait for a sale. Lenovo does it all the time. The last time was 4 days ago. They sold this X201 i7/4GB/500GB config for well under 50% off at $849. If you choose the i5 CPU, the price dropped to $636.50.

http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2563281

 

^All I did was go to lenovo.com and looked at the prices. Even at 1129, still no SSD and last I checked $1900/2 is still less than 1129 (not to mention it's 1129 + ssd upgrade and + a ram upgrade). And you are still stuck with no odd, no gpu, and a lower quality screen (and 16:10 at that).

Did you actually complete a build process? Starting with the 999 i5 base...you have to pay for webcam, pay for bluetooth, pay for decent wlan, etc. I built a config to match the entry Z i5 (including 128gb ssd) and it came in at $1589.

I don't doubt your sales deals, but again we've seen blowouts on Z too.

For the record, I'm a huge thinkpad fan and I certainly don't question their durability. I just don't find the X201 to be a "steal" vs. the Z.

 

Its pointless to compare the X201 with the Z. The Z is a no compromise machine that have the power when it is needed and battery life when it is not. It is common knowledge that the price of a laptop increases exponentially as it gets more and more powerful. Without a decent graphics card the X201 is completely worthless in terms of gaming or video editing or any graphics intensive applications. Thus, it is missing the entire element that makes the Z so special and desirable. We are better off comparing the Z with thinkpads with the hybrid graphics systems, like the T410.

As for the build quality, it's really not as bad as some people make it. Obviously it is significantly less rigid than any thinkpad of similar size. However, it makes up the lack of rigidity with flexibility. I have bent my Z in ways that would snap most thinkpads in half.

I think it just take some time for people to realize that being thin and flimsy doesn't mean it is low quality. Given the lightness of the Z, Sony did a great job in making it as sturdy as it is. Their use of material was not cheap or low quality. The carbon fiber body made the keyboard a lot more rigid than I had expected.

In conclusion, I don't think the Z's build quality is low compared to thinkpads. Sony and IBM just have different priorities. If you have a habit of throwing, dropping or sitting on laptops then maybe you should prioritize rigidity and sturdiness over lightness. If you are like me and spends a great deal of effort to keep all your electronics in tip top shape, than rigidity isn't really all that important.

What I really care about is whether or not my Z will last as long as a thinkpad, if both were used in ideal conditions and neither will suffer any accidents. Unfortunately only time can tell me the answer to that question.

 

I have a long (12+ yrs) experience solely with Thinkpads, only the professional series, the latest being t62p and x301. Since two yrs back I've started using the previous-gen Z (VGN-Z11X) series (wih the p9500 processor) and now the owner of a new-gen Z11 (i7, full-hd, see sig for spec).

IMHO there is no comparision when it comes to build quality. The Thinkpads are just outstanding. In my opinion, actual build quality in the T-line only improved with the Lenovo shift. The t62 I had was way more robust than the t42p which preceded it, even though more creaking appeared.

I think it is important to differentiate between perceived and actual build quality, a lot of people noticed that Thinkpads started creaking when pressed. What they wouldn't account for was the shift to an internal roll cage - I could easily stand on top of my 15" T62p with all of my 86+kgs. That, I wouldn't even contemplate with any of the Vaios

Having said that, I must say that when compared to the competition, the current Vaio Z11 is indeed quite well engineered, given the performance/weight envelope out there.

It is substantially better engineered than the previous VGN-Z product - no screen marks from the keyboard, less flex, better noise and temperature mgmt, substantially higher performance. For my purposes, I think this is the creme de la creme at the moment (unless you're an Apple fanboy, that is)

What ultimately made me leave the Thinkpad family is two things:
1) The screens. Thinkpad has always had an extremely poor choice of laptop screens. I'm not just talking about a resolution issue here, but also brightness, contrast, colour fidelity, everything. Comparing my wife's X301 to my (calibrated) VPC-Z11 is like comparing my Vaio with a generic 5yr old. It's that bad. I can't believe Lenovo still chooses deliberately (as it cannot be a simple oversight) to put crappy displays on its professional laptop line.
I spend most of my time with my laptop looking at its screen, not just connecting it to an external display.
2) The size/performance/portability envelope. The closest thing to a Vaio VPC-Z11 (size wise) is the (now discontinued line of) X301. While a tank and lovely to hold, the display is truly awfull, the cpu is sluggish at best (try watching 1080p blu-ray grade content on it, see what happens) and the SSD is average.

My 2c

 

The Vaio Z and thinkpad are very different computers. The Vaio Z has a great screen, blistering performance and light weight.
The Lenovo T410s has an amazing keyboard and build quality. The screen is nowhere as good as the Vaio.

 

Those sizes are wrong.

There is a big difference in size between the S and Z. The Z is a 13.1" wide-screen giving it the depth of a 12.1" non-widescreen laptop, hence the description of the Z as a 13 inch notebook in a 12 inch notebook body. The S is noticeably larger bigger with its 13.3" screen thicker LCD panel and thicker casing due to the lack of added CF for rigidity.

 

A very accurate answer has already been given:

2cm difference is not really that dramatical IMO and that's only in one direction. I agree Z is a bit smaller, but nothing that needs to be taken into account, considering the 500-1000 € difference

anyway - most of us agree S feels more rigid, despite lacking FC... metal is metal.

 

Sorry, I didn't see that, but 2cm is nearly an inch of difference (sorry I'm from the US)

 

Having a Thinkpad for more than 10 years, it is the laptop that I'd rely on anytime, especially when you need it to work in those crucial business moments. Sadly Lenovo does not care much about the looks and design which is where Sony Z excels. I have not experienced the Z much but having looked the both sub-forums here, I could hear more buzz on repairs/services on the Z, so perhaps that's an indication, although not very accurate I know.

 

Vaio Z is pretty well built, but it does not feel solid or rugged.

 

These are size comparsion pictures. The difference is quite noticeable to me, enough to anyway make me still prefer the 13.3 form factor over the 13.1 for use as a mainly desktop computer.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/3959770-post15.html

http://forum.notebookreview.com/3959130-post2.html

It does look more similar to a 12.1 here-
http://forum.notebookreview.com/son...omparison-between-sony-z540-toshiba-a605.html