Vaio Z memory speed diff from i5-520 to i5-540/i7-620?

While eagerly scouting the Zs, I've greatly enjoyed this forum for the past few weeks. I've been stopping by (ok stalking) my local Sony Style store to check them out in person, and became curious about a discrepancy.

Does anyone know off hand if there is an inherent memory speed or bandwidth difference between the 520m and 540m (or 620m)? I haven't noticed anything official from Intel or the Sony specs, other than they all use DDR3/1066 sticks.

Last week I snapped a picture (rather fuzzy cellphone, sorry) of the WEI screen for the lone silver GX/S (i5-520m) floor model. It shows a lagging score of 5.9 on memory, which doesn't jive with other performance scores mentioned on this forum (that I could find).



So I went back last night to drool a bit more, and they had 3 floor models. 2 of the silver GX/S (i5-520m) and one carbon CGX/X (i5-540m). Sooo, I re-ran the WEI score for each I know that's not the best benchmarking system, but it's all I had on hand!

Somewhat surprisingly, both of the GX/S's had identical scores (and still 5.9 on memory). I was hoping the first was just misconfigured on the other floor model. That could indicate something common between them rather than an individual defect... though they could both be similarly misconfigured.

The CGX/X showed a score of 6.8 or 6.9, the same as its CPU score (no photo). Its scores were in line with what others have posted.

Sadly, there wasn't an i7-620m floor model to play with.

Oh also, all three were plugged in. One GX/S was set to Auto mode, the the other to Speed. The CGX/X was set to Speed.


Is anyone willing to pop out their memory sticks and post photos?


So with this new i* series, is the memory controller now on-die? The difference between a 520 and 540 might be more than just the frequency bump. By that margin though? Or could this be some difference between a 2x2 and 4x1 configuration, or just using slower floor sweepers on the base model. May be something wrong with the test tool, but it was consistent on the two models I could touch.

Do these Zs support 1333+ memory speeds? There was some discussion about an inability to pop in aftermarket sticks, unfortunately, so that may be moot.

This is not a deal breaker, I'm just curious about the disparity.

Thanks!

 

FWIW, I've got the same score on memory with an i5-540 and 2+2mb ram, as you saw on the two i5-520s.

i think others have mentioned that more ram and/or more cpu-cache will improve that score, but no-one has claimed the speed of the ram has much to do with it.

 

I have the i7 with 8GB. My score is 6.9 for the memory.

 

Ditto here.

 

The memory score in Windows 7 Experience Index is limit to 5.9 if you have memory less than 4GB and since vaio z have to reserve some memory for onboard gpu So windows will see you memory size is less than 4GB and give your score 5.9

Else of WEI score, the performace of memory is the same on i5/i7 model

PS. For New Vaio Z the CPU limit memory bus to DDR3-800 or 1066 only

 

Oh right on... that would point towards the score relating to the 2x2 config instead of the CPU/controller.

So even if you were impacted by (or even noticed) the difference, it might be mitigated at some point swapping in a 4x1 or 4x2 kit (if compatible 3rd party parts are ever found).

It would be interesting to hear more people's scores with the 2x2, 4x1, and 4x2 configs to see if the pattern holds. Do you think Sony Style would frown if I unscrewed the memory door on the CGX/X floor model to take a peek?

 

Hi, Burlyman!

I think that I can close your question fairly completely. The Windows 7 WEI score has essentially nothing to do with RAM speed (though this will perhaps have a very minor impact). Instead, it's trying to estimate the impact on Windows speed as a consequence of your installed memory; what counts here is the amount of memory you have installed.

My system is initially a standard Sony Vaio VPC-Z11CGX/X, with a Core i5-540 and 2 x 2GB RAM modules. Just now, I removed one of the two stock DDR3-1066 SO-DIMMs and replaced it with a third-party 4GB DDR3-1066 SO-DIMM. With this one change from 4GB to 6GB, my WEI Memory score jumps from 5.9, like yours, to 6.8!

It's not predominantly RAM speed, module configuration, or any other "tech" issue. This figure of merit is determined overwhelmingly by simple RAM size. If it helps, all of the Core i5/i7 CPUs in the new Vaio Zs use the same DDR3-1066 MHz bus speed.

Cheers!
Mark

 

Can u tell me which 3rd party ram you used ? I would love to update mine on the cheap

 

Howdy, Nuggetbro!

Darn. I'd love to be able to answer what you're really asking, but I'm unfortunately unable to. You see, I still suspect the stability of this RAM. A little history.

I'd previously mail-ordered a "Super Talent DDR3-1066 SO-DIMM 4GB Samsung Chip Notebook Memory" from EWiz.com. When I first brought home my Vaio Z from the Sony Style store, I actually replaced one of the RAM modules before I ever turned the machine on! I was fortunate, indeed, for it ran great 99.999% of the time. However, once in a while I'd see a weird glitch in Windows 7 that I know that Windows 7 doesn't normally have. As a result, when I decided to do a clean install of Windows 7 just for the heck of it, i replaced the original Sony SO-DIMM first. I've been running that way until one hour ago, when I re-inserted the 4GB SO-DIMM to answer Burlyman's question.

Sure, we're quite close on this one, and I'll continue to watch it closely. However, while it is inexpensive, I'm don't know if it's yet the solution that we're all looking for. If things change, I promise to relay that along.

Sorry!
Mark

 

Hi, Folks!

Well, I've decided that I'll also test out a Hynix DDR3-1066 module, though we're still striking out rather blind without knowing which spec on the RAM chips is crucial here (though that's not yet an easily solvable problem yet, since it's not even generally publicized what the part numbers are for the chips on the new modules, either).

Anyway, I'll give this a shot, and will post the results. I'll first have to wait for mail-order, as always.

Cheers!
Mark

 

Thank you Mark.

I ordered the 192gb Silver Z from PortableOne, but it seems you need to spend a lot more to get a little bit more memory. Would have loved to have a super fast virtual test environment as well, so would love to up to 6-8GB.

Maybe we should have a thread specifically for Vaio Z11 ram?

 

The RAM in my Z11 is 2 x m471b5273bh1-cf8 (4GB each).

 

Hi, Folks!

Nuggetbro: We're awfully close to an answer right here!

Lpx: That's a standard Samsung module, and is actually available and orderable on the web, though it's typically ~$250 and up, compared to cheap RAM at about $150. It's surprising that my current module apparently isn't fully stable. They're both Samsung, both identical x8 RAM chip type, both rated for DDR3-1066 CL7 speed. I may just have to pick one of these up on the web. Thank you very much!

EDIT: I note that Intel says these are rated at 7-7-7 speed, and that the actual Samsung chip used is K4B2G0846B-HCF8. Time to dig that one up, too.

Cheers!
Mark

 

Double post. Darn it, this system needs to turn on message deletion, which is available in the S/W they're running!

 

I guess I was fortunate. The RAM module I have uses the exact same ICs that Sony's 4GB modules use, and so it should be working perfectly, unless it's actually defective. I'll start watching the testing a little more carefully and trying to determine if that's the case.

EDIT: Note that I never actually proved that this module caused the few glitches I've seen, which might have been caused by cockpit error, etc. Since I'd changed out the DIMM before first power-on, it's kind of automatic to assume that anything which goes wrong is the fault of the RAM. It could be, but it's also possible that this is the solution we've been looking for. From now on, I'll pay very close attention to how things go.

FYI!
Mark

 

Howdy!

Ah hah! I've just found a fascinating little problem which suggests that these modules might be just fine. While by no means is this proven yet, it's extremely encouraging. That is this: when I first was installing the 4GB module, I got some immediate and major errors when I turned the unit on. No sweat, I'd thought, the BIOS probably just wants to see the 4GB module in the other slot first (a relatively common system requirement for mixed-capacity setups). So, I'd swapped swapped the two around, and I've posted the results.

Today, just for fun, I swapped the two around again, and it's still working just fine! What makes this encouraging? It means that Super Talent simply hadn't cleaned the residue off their PCB too well (which is neither rare, nor a big deal), and my repeated installs have helped wear through this "crud" (again, quite normal). Preventing this is as simple as rubbing the connector area on both sides of the SO-DIMM with a paper towel with some rubbing alcohol on it before installing the module. With this potentially causing a bit of flakiness, it's intriguing to consider that even if I had actually witnessed some oddness, it could have been caused by this root cause. Then again, I may not have experienced any problems at all after the second DIMM install.

Time will tell whether this indeed supports the stability that we all require. However, knowing that these are the exact same chips used on the Sony 8GB configuration is quite good news. I'll continue to test, and will pass the word along when i think it'll be time for beta testing!

Have Fun!
Mark

 

SO what model of super talent are they? 2 x 4gb for 150$ seems awesome. Specially If I get 1 now to swap a 2gb for and swap the other then I need it. That means I can get the 1899$ Z and grab 2 x 4gb supertalent!

What I would like to know is , have you run something like Memtest (though it probably won't do anything..).

How long did you use the laptop before believing they are stable? Did you try and play games or antyhing intensive like that?

Thank you again Mark.

 

Hi, Nuggetbro!

First, the long description I posted earlier actually seems to apply. Their model number is the mysterious W1066SB4Gx, where "x" is never defined anywhere I can see. I'm very sorry if I wasn't clear in my description! These modules run at a street price of about $150 each here in the states. EWiz.com is my own source. Though they're out of stock on the Samsung 4GB I mentioned earlier, that seems to change pretty quickly - it'll be back soon.

Testing? Heck yes, I've run MemTest86, the Windows 7 Memory Diagnostic, Prime95 (which really beats on CPU & RAM), lots of benchmarks, various multitasking tests, and tons of general use. When will I call this stable? Good question, since I haven't yet. On the other hand, I've reached the point where it's definitely worth at least another "alpha" tester getting involved.

I'll run games next, and will confirm whether or not it's OK.

Cheers!
Mark

 

Thanks guys, this was very helpful information!

 

For people looking for more info, check out below.

Super Talent Website - http://www.supertalent.com/products/memory_landing.php?data_rate=&mtid=5

Search for - W1066SB4Gx

On EWiz website - https://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?nam...-1066-SODIMM-4GB-Samsung-Chip-Notebook-Memory

The above I am not sure of, but I'm sure MJFlash can tell.

 

Hi, Gang!

Burleyman: No, thank you for getting us marching towards a real potential upgrade solution for our Zs!

Nuggetbro: Thanks for the links! Doh, I'm an idiot. I just realized what the 'x' is. If it's an 'S', then it's Samsung RAM, if it's an 'H', it's Hynix RAM. If it's a 'V', they don't promise any specific RAM manufacturer (variable?). Since we're looking for Samsung RAM, we're looking for the W1066SB4GS. Hopefully, they'll be back in stock soon, or even better, we'll be able to find the original Samsung modules at a better price.

Cheers!
Mark

 

Hi, Nuggetbro!

Sorry that I'm just not enough into gaming to give a better representation, but DiRT2 works flawlessly. As I've posted in another thread, it runs perfectly even when the graphics are at max overclock with MSI Afterburner, and there's no change to that with the 6GB RAM configuration. In fact, I've just spent my longest sessions yet in DiRT2, and it continues to run just fine without a single glitch. I'll eventually get around to installing Steam here, but don't wait for it, for the games I have on Steam are by no means particularly challenging to this system. Anyway, that's at least a start, to show that this system really is looking stable thus far in the testing.

FYI!
Mark

 

Hi, Everyone!

A few key thoughts on quality and reliability. There are several potential problems with RAM quality. Back a few years ago, it wasn't at all unusual to see "garbage" RAM modules that were built from so-called UTT RAMs, meaning chips that the manufacturer never does in-depth testing on, but they're relying on whomever builds the modules to do the testing. Unsurprisingly, few of the no-name module manufacturers would make the necessary investment in expensive testers, or in the necessary test time, to actually know that the modules that they built were any good. Also unsurprisingly, they sold them anyway.

Another factor that was a big problem in the past was that module manufacturers designed their own PCBs, and many of them just connected traces without proper regard for impedance matching, propagation delay / length matching, etc. Naturally, this could result in even perfectly good chips getting lots of errors in the real world.

Fortunately, with DDR3, the world is looking much better. First, very few if any of the third-tier IC manufacturers are even capable of building DDR3 RAMs yet. Second, the very demanding timing precision required for DDR3 board layout means that most, if not all, module manufacturers use the exact PCB layouts suggested by major manufacturers like Samsung. Third, I don't believe that Samsung sells UTT RAMs, meaning that their RAMs all go through the same rigorous functionality test. While Samsung does repeatedly play shenanigans like government bribes, industry price fixing scandals, etc, they do in fact build very high quality RAMs. If some little corner of Samsung does sell UTT RAMs, I'm willing to place a large bet that they would at least have different part numbers. In other words, the fact that this module contains the exact same chips as the modules sold by Sony gives me high confidence that this module will perform quite similarly to the module which Intel actually certified in their DDR3 compatibility lab.

Now, the bad news is that as I scour the web, it appears that this RAM might possibly be in the process of being phased out. As always, RAM manufacturers usually prefer to sell denser chip configurations, because they are designed with newer IC processes that reduce their costs. Specifically, these modules use 2 Gb RAM chips, each of which is 256Kx8 bits, arranged as two banks of 256K x 64 bits, for a total of 16 RAM chips / module delivering 4 GB. The next generation 4 Gb chips have crossed the price-effectiveness curve, so we'll see ever more of 4 GB RAM modules with only 8 chips required. Samsung's probably at, or close to, that leading edge.

The consequences of this little diversion are twofold. First, as folks buy more Zs, we'll have to ask them to post whatever newer modules they may contain. Second is that we're going to have to go through this process all over again soon!

Cheers!
Mark

 

Thank you again MJ. I guess we are on the hunt for cheap Samsung based memory for our Z's now!

 

Hi, Nuggetbro!

Indeed, for now, there's no question that Samsung, as by far the world's largest DRAM manufacturer (about 35% of world volume) is a particularly safe bet, but especially since we know that that's what Sony is currently shipping. Hynix (#2) and Micron (#3) are also very safe choices. For that reason, there's a great chance that these manufacturers also make chips that will work perfectly fine, which is one reason I have a Super Talent Hynix module en route from EWiz. In an ideal world, we'll manage to dig up a few alternatives, so that we won't have to worry about end of life situations with just one chip. The process is always made easier for us, though, when Sony starts shipping new modules with specific chips that we can use as additional insurance, just as we've been able to do thus far with the Samsung. It'll be fun to see how this goes!


Cheers!
Mark

 

Hi, Gang!

Another quick thought that may help to relieve the concern that many folks may have regarding buying any DRAM other than Sony. The reason I bring up this topic is because I know that one user had bad luck with an alternative SO-DIMM, and that user's experiences have obviously impacted the forums here with other folks who've elected to change their orders to buy the Sony 8 GB configuration.

A word on the PC industry, which I've spent 25 years in. Just as I've expressed the ideal goal of having multiple possible RAM suppliers, PC manufacturers consider this even more essential, since production problems at one RAM manufacturer could otherwise stop their production lines, and stop them from being able to ship anything. As a result, the industry's developed standards to help ensure interoperability between manufacturers. That's been a good step, but as we reach towards ever more critical timing requirements, one specific factor stands out: Intel. Their rigorous certification process for DDR3 essentially ensures that RAM modules from multiple manufacturers are very nearly identical. Once Intel's done their thing, any manufacturer who can't use multiple RAM sources will first of all, risk their own production stability, and second, almost certainly has their own design bug.

It's indeed unfortunate that that one user had a problem, but it's truly much rarer - particularly with first-tier RAM manufacturers - than having modules "just work". Sure, I'm being overly cautious here since I realize that we've got many folks who don't want to waste time doing RAM qualification, and who just want someone to advise them of a solution to their requirements that just works. So, I'm plodding forward.

In reality, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend to my kids that they buy the Samsung module right now, and I'm willing to bet that the Hynix module will also work fine. For a beer?

Have Fun!
Mark

 

Hi, Folks!

I shoulda' known. Googling right now for the VPC-Z11CGX/X shows vendors from around the world who're already selling RAM upgrades for this machine, including one Ebay seller who, with a lifetime warranty, is selling a pair of matched 2 x 4 GB Hynix RAM modules that supposedly work with this machine for $320. Well, we'll be able to test that assertion in just a few days.

Cheers!
Mark

 

Hi, Folks,

Well, I started paying real attention today when I got two BSODs (Blue Screens of Death) under Win7, which could well have been the first real indication that I've seen that I had a memory problem, even though the info I'd listed above indicated that this should indeed be rock solid. To dive into it, I had to install the O.S. debugger and symbols, and do some real low-level snooping. After doing that, and then doing a lot of searching on the web, I came up with what is truly an ironic result.

After emphasizing the great job that Intel's done by providing their DDR3 certification lab, it turns out that the source of the BSODs is actually the darned Intel wireless group's WiFi drivers!!!

If that isn't enough, they've managed to release two WLAN drivers in a row that throw BSODs. Quite clearly, they should apply the same sort of rigid testing criteria used in the DDR3 lab to their own code!

Anyway, false alarm. The RAM continues to perform as expected - i.e. properly.

Regards!
Mark

 

Thanks Mark for keeping us up to date. I can't wait to see the price start to drop on the Z memory when more modules come to market. I think $US300 is still a little heavy (thought 8GB of ram is huge!).

 

Hi, Folks!

OK, I hereby declare that the Super Talent 4GB DDR3-1066 Samsung SO-DIMM modules from EWiz.com (with 16 RAM chips/module) are a completely stable upgrade for the new Vaio Z11 series. Though I'd thought about the beta tester thing, it's just not necessary, in my opinion. This RAM works!

Cheers!
Mark

 

Hi, Gang!

For some great news, Pricewatch reports that E-Wiz just announced that they now have the Super Talent 4GB Samsung DDR3-1600 SO-DIMM back in stock as of about 5 hours ago. Go get 'em!

Have Fun!
Mark

 

haha sweet!

 

Hi, Gang!

The only downside I can see with EWiz.com's current offer is that they're limiting us to 1 module/person. As a result, I just sent them this note:

We'll see what they say - hopefully this will work!

Enjoy!
Mark

 

MJFLASH........Trying to get the actual understanding of this thread and forgive my ignorance, is it because you or another member of this forum found fault in the ram on new Z? i5-520 to i5-540/i7-620
Or is this information about 4 gig ram modules that are stable and available for our new Z.

I own VPCZ11CGX/X picked it up on Saturday but have not spend much time on it work etc. thx for the insight in advance.

 

Hi, Dio!

No problem with your brand spanking new VPC-Z11CGX/X, at all! You've got it exactly right. We've been hunting for a means to upgrade the memory capacity of our machines to 6GB or 8GB, and we've definitely found what looks to be the best solution available. Have fun with your lil' new beastie!

Cheers!
Mark

 

Thx MJFlash how much perfomance gain did you find with 8GB?

 

Hi, Dio!

With almost 4X the rep that I've got, it's almost like you're asking me a leading question! Seriously, if you're interested in the Windows Experience Index, I jumped from 5.9 to 6.8 with just the move from 4GB to 6GB - moving from there to 8GB will only take you to 6.9. Back to the real world, the performance delta will depend completely on what you do with your machine. Perhaps the greatest immediate performance improvement will come from folks that run virtual machines (like for running Linux, or for running Windows XP on top of Windows 7). Folks who are editing large pixel count images in Photoshop will also greatly benefit from this upgrade. For others, if you happen to keep tons of applications open at the same time, that's a great sign that 8GB might be for you. Similarly, software developers often benefit from having this much memory.

To be honest, most folks don't need 8GB RAM, but for those who do, it can significantly increase the speed of their work. I'm not trying to push this upgrade on anyone, but for those who seek it, I do claim that this is one heck of a good solution!

Cheers!
Mark

 

hahahah not really leading......I rememeber once upon a time 2 gb was the the great ram upgrade then 4gb, my ? is out of curiousity really if the beny of having 8gb was as important to say 2gb back in the day then that would be a compellin upgrade but it doesnt really apply to me thx again for your work.

 

Hi, Dio!

I really do understand. My first programming experience was on a machine that had a *512 byte* (not K, not M, not G) memory, eventually off of an ASR-33 teletype using paper tape. It's really quite astonishing what progress we've made over my lifetime, and I'm still very much in the game. Fun times, indeed!

Have Fun!
Mark

 

You and I may be of the same era. I too programmed a 512 byte machine, of my own construction (RCA cosmac 1802)

 

Hi, Oscar2!

Great memories! I also built an RCA Cosmac 1802, and then a Signetics 2650-based machine! Kudos to you sir, for hanging in there all this time! Man, I really do miss those experiences. It was such a blast being able to create something from scratch, and being able to completely define the experience. These days, despite the fact that I've led portables development at 5 different companies, so much is out of our control that it's just not the same thing. It's a pleasure to hear from a fellow initiator!

Very best wishes!
Mark

 

Any problem buying this 4GB and installing it next to my existing? Or do you recommend matching modules.

 

Hi, Oscar2!

DDR3 is quite different from DDR2 matching modules - the penalty for running dissimilar modules is literally hard to measure, it's so small. Remember that each DDR3 module is already 64-bits times 2 banks wide (or at least these are!). In fact, once the Hynix module comes in, I plan on running the Samsung and the Hynix full time, intermixed in the same machine. I wouldn't worry about matching at all, unless you'd prefer to do a one-time upgrade from 4GB to 8GB.

Cheers!
Mark

 

I have a 4 GB Z; does this mean I must buy 2 4GB sticks to reach 8 GB? I am presuming my 4 GB is composed of two 2 GB sticks but I havent opened my Metal Mosaic Z to find out.

 

Hi, Buddy1065!

Perhaps. Folks seem to be reporting predominantly that the pre-configured machines are 2 x 2GB, but the CTO models seem to be 1 x 4GB. I'm sorry that this isn't a hard and fast rule, so the safest bet is definitely just to take a screwdriver to the RAM access panel and take a look. If there's just one SO-DIMM, celebrate! In that case, you'd only need to buy one module. If not, you are absolutely correct that it'll be necessary to buy 2 x 4GB modules. Sorry that I can't answer this absolutely for you!

Good Luck!
Mark

 

You can download a program called cpu-z and it'll tell you what size ram modules you have in each slot.

 

Thanks guys!

 

Howdy, Folks!

The Hynix RAM module just arrived. I popped it into the system, and as I fully expected, it's working just fine. In fact, I'm running 8GB in kind of an odd configuration, with the 4GB Samsung and the 4GB Hynix modules, with no problem at all. I'll essentially repeat the same tests I performed before, though this time there's little point to posting all the details as the testing progresses, since we've been through all that. Once I've completed the tests, I'll of course report on the results.

Cheers!
Mark

 

How much was the Hynix? It is usually very good value memory.

 

Hi, Nuggetbro!

It was about $156 when I bought it, and it's currently listed by EWiz at about $160, compared to the Samsung at $150. It's actually kind of interesting. I happened to catch EWiz just as they were changing the price on the Samsung module! They initially had it shown at $160, tied with the Hynix, but then cut the price by $10 as I was writing my post about the Samsung getting back in stock. Now, as then, EWiz has the lowest prices on DDR3-1600 modules of anyone else on PriceWatch.

Cheers!
Mark