ViDock 4G for Light Peak (Z21) - POSSIBLE.

Hi guys,

I created this thread with the purpose of collecting information, documentation and photos about Light Peak implemented into Z21 to be sent to Village Tronic, cuz they say that it's possible to implement Light Peak with a module, in ViDock 4G. In this way it'l be faster the instrumentation.

What we need is:

- documentation and detailed specification about LIGHT PEAK technology (and NOT Thunderbolt)

- photos about chips and wires and ports about Z21 concerning that hybrid USB 3.0 port used for Light Peak

- documentation and specification about that hybrid port

In addition, Village Instruments will launch an open letter to see how many people want this implementation. Since Z21 it's expensive, not many people would be available, so we must be all together to obtain this objective.

*** Village Tronics when wrote that Open letter for Thunderbolt reached 150 people in 5 days, at the fifth day they decided to develop the technology. We'll be obviously less then them and we have to see if Sony won't say anything about an implementation of something that would be against their own PMD... in any case, check here for Village Tronic page on facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/ViDock/89321949134 in discussion they'll put the new Open Letter in the next weeks or maybe September. If you see a certain Claudio, that's me

!!!IMPORTANT!!! Write here if you would like this implementation of ViDock for Light peak/Z2

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here the Open Letter for VAIO Z Community, for LIGHT PEAK!

Dear Sony Vaio Z community,

First of all, many thanks to you, the Sony Vaio Z community for being the largest Notebook community in terms of ViDock sales. Thanks are due to Oleg and Jim to provide the installation instructions that made it easy enough to convince a Sony Z to cooperate with ViDock. Also thanks is due to the lively forums on notebook review, specifically to DIY ViDock / eGPU and especially to Nando4. Last but not least many thanks to the Macintosh Community. The overwhelming response to the http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=89321949134&topic=17768 (Open Letter: Do you want a Thunderbolt ViDock?) not only triggered this open letter, but with all we learned with our first open letter, this one can be much more specific. With no further ado, here goes:

If you want a ViDock to connect to your Sony Vaio Z using its Sony Light Peak port, please make a post below and answer the following questions:
1) Graphics Card Power: ( 75 W | 225 W = 2 pcs 6 pin | 375 W = 2 pcs of 8 pin )
2) What Notebook do you own:
3) Purpose: ( Gaming | Photo/Video/Artwork | Office | Scientific )
4) Modular I/O is useful ( Yes | No )
5) Do you want to buy the ViDock PCB only or finished product ( Parts | Product )
Answering above questions allows us to give you the ViDock you want. Help us to help you

About ViDock G4, a Modular Docking Station System
* 3 Base models (ViDock Lightning (2 PCIe / 1 ExpressCard) , ViDock Mini (1 PCIe) , ViDock Drive (2 internal / 2 external drives)
* Host Interface Modules: ( ExpressCard | Thunderbolt | possibly Sony Light Peak, that is what this vote is about )
* I/O Modules: ( USB 2 | USB 3 | Power | ExpressCard Slot | Thunderbolt Port | eSATAp | ViXLR | FireWire )
* Case: ViDock Unibody
* Upgrade Program: ViDock G3 can be upgraded to ViDock G4
* All parts are available separately, start out small and then scale your ViDock System when you need it or when you can

Conditions under which we can build it:
a) There are more than 50 people posting in here that they would want to by ViDock for Sony Light Peak and answer the questions in their post.
b) We are permitted to buy the necessary chips / connectors / cables.

How you can help us to develop it faster:
If anybody knows where to find Specifications on Sony Light Peak, where to buy connectors and chips, please post in your reply

An Open Letter to Sony:
As far as we understand, your Light Peak Port on the new Sony Vaio Z is proprietary. We do not want to offend you by trying to make our Docking Station System compatible to your Notebook. We (and the Sony ViDock Community) want to compliment you on your design. We also do not want to compete with your own docking station. We offer to complement it. The features of our docking station system are quite different than yours. ViDock G4 can support up to 375 W graphics cards. It can connect with just one cable a vast number of I/O, such as high end graphics cards (plural), Disk Raid System, USB 3, IEEE 1394, Firewire, Mouse, Keyboard, etc to your Sony Vaio Z notebook. This would make the Sony Z a preferred notebook for power users. Elegant and light for traveling, powerful when docked.

Guangzhou, August 07, 2011
Hubert Chen
CEO, www.villagetronic.com

References:
* http://www.tomshardware.com/news/light-peak-thunderbolt-vaio-radeon,13019.html (Sony Vaio Z @ tomshardware)
* http://www.anandtech.com/show/4474/sony-updates-vaio-z-thinner-lighter-light-peak-and-external-gpu (Review at Anandtech)
* http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/600942-vidock-4g-light-peak-z21-possible.html (The Notebook Review Post that triggered this open letter)
* http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/598920-z1-vidock-gtx-570-ftw-z2-pmd-killer.html (Sony Z, ViDock, GTX 570, Courtesy Computer Cowboy)
* http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=17791&uid=89321949134 (How to configure Sony Vaio Z to work with ViDock G3)

As you can see, we'll need 50 people to start the developement when there will be the open letter for light peak.

SO GO TO FACEBOOK PAGE of ViDock at this link --> https://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=89321949134&topic=17792 AND ANSWER!!! WE NEED TO REACH 50 PEOPLE!!



*************** For those who wants to see differences between 4x and 2x slots (remember that 4x will not be at its own maximum speed with Z2 due to thunderbolt/lightpeak bandwidth limit)
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/11.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/gam...e-out-how-make-diy-vidock-16.html#post5122549
********************************************************************************

Taking into account a powerful and actual video card such HD 6870/6950 or GTX570, follows performance ratio versus pci-e connection (against PCI-E 16X 2.0):
1X 1.0 slower 20-80%
1X 2.0 slower 15-60%
4X 2.0 slower 5-30%
8X 2.0 slower 0-15%
it varies carr by card.

Thunderbolt is bidirectional and it reaches 20 Gb/s and it's in the range of PCI-E 4X 2.0. We don't know values for this Light Peak implementation into Z.

*************************************************************************************************************

There's also another chance..

 

UPDATE 31-08-2011

Village Tronic is waiting Intel's specification and pin out for TB chips. Probably they'll have news from Intel after IDF, like a TB development kit.
They collected our links about LP parts such as cable, optical fiber, connectors in order to use them for a cable replica.
The new ViDock will be modular and probably to change from TB to LP there will be only the need to change the cable and not the module.


DOCUMENTATION:

WhistlerPro laptop schematics: MEGAUPLOAD - WhistlerPro Laptop Schematics

PMD explanation

Transceivers

CABLES and JUMPERS/OPTICAL INTERNAL CONNECTOR

CORNING article on optical fiber of LP

CORNING OPTICAL FIBERS

**************************************************************************************************

People willing of Light Peak ViDock: NOT UPDATED

Crystal1988
ComputerCowboy X2
Malgrave
Emev
Ung_Kung
Chfshifter
Ersey
Maven1975
Louche
VaioLover
Allengeb
Louche ???
Deodot
Andrew08
Mr MM
Antonynus
Bjornb
noap_
GsunH
Sundial
Joshmcx
goldentreesang
MikjoA

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Documentation

 

OMG! If we make enough noise maybe they will make one. This is a great idea. I will tell the guys at Village about this thread once we get some momentum going. If we could get a ViDock for the Z2 that would be so much better than the "Power Media Dud"

I would like to see much higher wattage ratings on the new version, enough to run a GTX590 and beyond.

 

Great stuff! Rep to you Crystal. Let us know as soon as there is something to reply to.

 

If they would really make a ViDock for the Z2 (and if it could drive the internal display without having to hack around too much), I'd buy it.

 

i'm in, however i do not have a facebook...

 

I'm already in contact with them but the more we contact them directly, the more they'll think.. hey!! It would be a great developement!

Don't worry, we'll cooperate with Village Instruments to take a look here.

In any case, all of you, write here an answer to this:

1) What do you want to use the Light Peak ViDock for ?
3) Do you want 1 slot x4 or two slots x2 ?
4) Any other feature you want?

These are 3 of the 4 questions made by the CEO of Village Instruments in the open letter...

 

1) I use the ViDock to drive WQXGA displays, I'd love to do even more with it, like SATA RAID for example
2) Two 2X slots would be more useful for me, I could either run two graphics cards for more displays... or run a single graphics card and some sort of SATA RAID controller.
3) More USB ports, USB3 and LOTS of ports, as many as can be added, eSATA would be great also.

Super high wattage, maybe make it a bigger box that is just a board with slots inside, the box could take a full ATX powersupply of our choice. I think people would like that.

 

I'm in! 10chars

 

1) drive multiple displays at QXGA and WQXGA and eSata drives, chance to drive the laptop display
2) Two 2x slots (one for audio card)
3) USB ports, eSata ports, ethernet port

 

Most important thing for me to have a ViDock is to get the Z2 to output 2560x1600 - there simply aren't any solution to this atm!

 

1. if they can make one that can drive laptop screen that would be really nice, i'm also willing to send them my PMD to them for engineering propose
2. 2x slot
3. USB, eSata, ethernet, CDDVD (basically similar to PMD with bigger footprint and better performance)
4. please no plastic either fiber or metal

thanks

 

It would be awesome if they develop this, but I have a feeling their biggest barrier isn't going to be the controller or drivers, but the cable itself. Unlike Thunderbolt, you can't just buy a Sony "light peak" cable, and the cable that comes with the PMD is fixed to the PMD... And the main challenge will be to get USB cables with the necessary fiber optics connections inside of them...

But that said, besides the increased video capabilities, I would love for there to be a firewire port!

 

^ that's true, but since they're developing a module for thunderbolt, it wouldn't be a big problem if for developing also a Light peak cable they would request 20 or 30 € more (example).. we'll see.

 

1) Essentially as a dock on my desk. Mainly for playing games and for giving me just one thing I need to plug into. I don't care about driving the LCD.
2) No opinion. Unlikely I'd plug 2 graphics cards in, though.
3) USB (several), ethernet
4) Ability to drive high-resolution displays. Ability to power laptop through ViDock.

 

Would be an instant buy for me. I would even cut the cable off my PMD and send it in if needed.

 

It's funny everyone leaves audio off the list of wants for a dock. IMO it's the only thing wrong with the PMD - still gotta plug your speakers into the laptop itself.

 

Not everyone. If you'll forgive the cross-thread quote,

 

Everyone wants to run Crysis at 1080P on a 13" laptop.

Plus it's easier to tell your friend "look at how good this looks!" rather than "listen to how good that sounds!".

 

I was thinking just plain old sound ports, but yeah I guess we are both wanting this. Only real complaint about my VPC-Z dock as well.

 

Now that you mention, you're right.. in fact when I say that I'd like 2 2x ports it's for audio card and other stuff.. I'll correct my answers

 

I wouldn't mind using these with a Z2.
The JH PRO Music Collection | JHAudio.com

 

^ the same for me.

By the way, Louche, I don't know if you'll get a Z2 or not.. if you're willing to get one, would you like a ViDock that works with?

 

To infinity and beyond!
-Buzz lightyear.

 

I'm strongly leaning in favor of getting a Z2. Mostly I'm waiting to see if they offer it with integrated LTE for the US market. I'm also kinda thinkin' about waiting to see if they offer it in gold even though I probably ought to get basic black for professional purposes.

As to your question, I absolutely would be interested in an LP ViDock (particularly if I can add an audio card). Thank you for asking.

 

Yea... I wants teh soundez hookups, I just forgets to said it

Seriously that is one of my main gripes with the Z1 dock. My solution is USB, not ideal, but not that bad.

 

For the audio card I think there wouldn't be any kind of problem.. there will be at LEAST one 4x port available

I'll put you into the list on the second page.

Wonderful

I wonder what Beaups is likely to do..

 

That's exactly what I would expect from a LP ViDock. Do it and I buy it

 

Hey beaups, thanks for pointing this out.

Do you know if the PMD has audio through it's HDMI?

 

Hot dawg I love this forum and it's contributors! I have been salivating for this since I saw Cowboy post his vidock setup, I would most definitly buy one!
And now for a newb (which I admittedly am) question...
What is the difference between a slotx4 vs slotx2. I would think that slotx4 would be faster but the tradeoff would be 1 card over 2. If this is the case would a 1 slotx4 be smaller (more portable), and would it possibly be more future proof?

 

^ 4X it's 2 times faster then a 2X .. the fact is that Audio Card usually use 1X .. Multimedia card (as video adaptor or something similare) use 1x or 2x.. raid controller or pci-e ssd 2x or 4x.
Yeah, with a single slot it would be smaller but remember that there's a power supply and the dock must contain a video card.. so it wouldn't be small. 5 cm more or less.. does it really change??

 

It does, yes.

 

One 4X port in the dock and I'm satisfied. I would buy the thing immediately!

 

1) powerful graphic card that can drive internal display
2) 1 pcie x4? How can i put x16 graphic card inside?
3) no.

 

Im in too, although I dont own a Z, this would correct the flaw on the Z, the dubious power of the 6650m

 

In ADDITION to 16X there would be one 4X or two 2X

Remember that 6650M it's a little slower then 6570 .. and that, being connected with light peak, it's slower then usual.

 

Cheers. That's not too bad then. Some monitors (I have the Dell U2410) have a headphone/ext. speakers jack so you can plug your speakers in there

 

is this possible ?

1) What do you want to use the Light Peak ViDock for ?
- To insert it with medium performance GPU, USB 3.0 card and Soundcard <onkyo>
2) Do you want 1 slot x4 or two slots x2 ?
two slots x2, but if can, 2x x4
3) Any other feature you want?
an extra connector for charging the notebook maybe ? just like we see in sony z2 pmd

 

not necessarily, you are assuming that a card like that would bottleneck whatever pcie arrangements that whatever that port is has.

Although its been awhile that I dont visit the sony forums to know.

But only in some games you can notice the difference between a gtx 480 in x16, x8, x4.

 

Go to the first page, it's not sure 100% but very very possible

Take a look here Power Media Dock?????VAIO Z???????????????????
You can see that new Z is slower then SA by 12% even if it has a little faster gpu (6650 has 600mhz for gpu and 900mhz for gddr3 .. 6630 has 485mhz for gpu and 800mhz for gddr3).. this means that Light Peak has high response time (that's the only problem it could have)

Take a look here also.. http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/sony-vaio-z-2011.aspx?mode=benchmarks even if 3Dmark 06 is higher then usual for this graphic card, World of Warcraft and Farc Cry 2 show that new Z is slower then SA

 

oh yeah the limitation is really based on the latency and lack of bandwidth in some games

 

I'm in.

1. Playing games and/or using a bigger high res monitor.
2. Single x4 slot for higher gpu performance (interesting comparison between pcie speeds here)
3. Multiple USB/USB3.0 + eSata would be nice.

 

^ the principal connector is always a 16x .. I think that 2x and 4x are additional slots (for a future developement, I think that the question is to understand what to do for ViDock 5) OR they mean that the real connection is like a 2x or 4x, since the fact that a 4X is 2GB/s and a 2X is 1GB/s and ThunderBolt is 1.25GB/s (Light Peak in Z? Somebody said is 15Gb/s so 1.875 GB/s but they also say that is in fiber.. but fiber version of lightpeak was meant to reach 100 Gb/s... )
http://www.villageinstruments.com/vi_files//img/products/ViDock34_web_SpecPage_04.pdf

 

btw I think it is essential that we have to know the speed limitation in sony's LP, by having how much maximum the data transfered, we can determine whether it will be enough for GPU, or GPU with data card or other combination.

sony's LP is using fiber-optic connection, so it should be faster than thunderbolt

hopefully sony will open up the specs so we can see 3rd party making something that will be compatible with their LP (Lacie is developing external hdd with thunderbolt)

EDIT:

I think it would be nice if it has a physical eject button
it is more convenient than having to eject manually via windows

and during the power loss, is it possible to not cause any bsod or freezing ?

 

not necessarily, it depends on the controller itself. and how the channels are distributed.

it doesnt matter if the cable supports speeds higher than copper, if the controller cant handle it.

 

^ yes I know it depends on the controller too, but I think sony wouldn't be using a fiber-optic cable if they know the copper would suffice

CMIIW when the real specs are out

 

Thanks to Crystal1988 and CC, the Z may finally live up to its promise. My thanks to both of you.

 

^ Thanks Louche.

I remember you all that to obtain the developement, we need to be at least 50 I think.. at the moment, we're 17.

 

Thanks man

I will buy two. One for the office and one for the living room.

 

^ I knew it !

Cowboy, which connection do you have in ViDock? That GTX570 versus one ina desktop.. how does it go?