ViDock 4G for Light Peak (Z21) - POSSIBLE.

As for now, no. Optimus compression - which gives a rather impressive boost of about 3x the speed compared to x1 speed - only engages on x1 links. The particular Light Peak implementation on the Z2 provides x2 2.0 lanes (running @ 5Gb/s) so Optimus will not engage. This is x4 1.0 tho so most likely will outperform a x1 1.0 Optimus link like what we run on the Z1 anyways. If Optimus was available to x2 or wider links, we would already see 22k+ results in the eGPU thread. The eGPU community petitioned NVidia to make Optimus available to other dGPUs and other link widths, but there was no official response so far, unfortunately. I'd really like to see optimus running on x2 SB systems - NVidia could definitely make a good buck from us eGPU users as if they would open up optimus for all of us, this would easily render AMD cards to be a dead duck.

{I wanted to post some sceptic words about VTs LP plans here but I leave this now as it is.}

 

I don't really care if we don't get a ViDock for the Z2, I can run at least one WQXGA monitor with the Z2 sans PMD... so I am pretty happy with just that. In theory the Z2 could run a WQXGA monitor off the PMD also... but I was talking with an SB user who was having no luck at all making my driver fix work for his ATI based SB.

ATI just sucks so bad. I hate hate hate ATI.

If I can't make my PMD do something cool I am gonna sell it to one of those peeps that wants two. Of course this is all conjecture, I don't even have a Z2 yet, still waiting on the refresh, beaups says I'll have my way...

 

^Get your $3000 ready.

 

That's not ATi/AMD's fault, lol. Just Sony's for not using DP, that even the cheap crap is begining to utilize.

 

So... what Nvidia GPU will be in the next GPU? Will it be more powerful than the current AMD one?

 

I'm sceptic too about it, but till they won't say - no we cannot do it / they won't give us development kit or data-sheets - I'll wait.
We've already found out chips, cables, port, optical fiber.. so the only problem is to see if Intel will give data sheets and other stuff to them (since it's not an exclusive for Sony).
Obviously, I think it's not economic for them to develop something like this since Z21 it's the ONLY laptop to use Light Peak (and probably it'll remain like this). BUT if they say that they'll develop it.. I'll be waiting.

By the way, here the announcements about the new modular ViDock :

Announcement: ViDock Micro (G4) | Facebook

Announcement: WeDock, public domain docking standard | Facebook

 

No GPU change, just GOLD.

 

That makes it sound as if the gold will only be available on the Signature model(s). The $3k signature Z21, however, has only 6GB RAM -- not user upgradable without a soldering iron and probably a non-standard RAM module.

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that ComputerCowboy is not a 6GB RAM kind of guy, not when an 8GB configuration is available. On the other hand, $4500 for a laptop he doesn't really even like may be a bit much, even for CC.

 

what do you think about this?

Magma ExpressBox 3T gives you 3 external PCIe slots over Thunderbolt -- Engadget

So vidock for z2 is possible?

 

I am not going to buy it unless it is maxed out. There isn't much of anything you can do with it once you get it. I'm either all in, or I fold.

I'm pretty happy with my Z1 right now and the Z2 seems to have driver issues with the PMD. No immediate ViDock solution. IDK, for the money I could dump on a Z2 I might rather have another two or three WQXGA monitors on a Matrox card, maybe some more SSD in the ODD bay.

I've never been as excited about the Z2 as I was and am about the Z1. The only thing I even like about it is the Gold/Brown color scheme.

 

Beaups,

With the second revision of the Z1, we saw a few designer lids/colors. If gold is on the way, could it be possible that glossy or other designer lids are on the way too?

Look forward to your coded answer

 

Z2 does not have the Thunderbolt port that Apple integrates into the mini DP. Sony uses an optical implementation so your linked product as well as the Sonnet boxes will NOT work with the Z2. You can't even physically connect them to the Z2.

 

I've seen nothing new outside of gold. That doesn't mean something else won't be available via CTO though. We will have to wait and see.

 

Will Gold be a CTO option?

 

^Dunno.

10char.

 

I think If magma can implement Ext pciE with TB. So can they implement their stuff to sonyz2 via LP?

 

A more interesting question about the Z22 is whether Sony gets the PMD drivers sorted out and up to snuff.

An even more question: If Sony does get the PMD working correctly (OpenGL 3.0. etc.), will the fixes be applicable to the Z21?

 

Magma is very expensive as I recall. I think it was over 3x the cost of the ViDock.

 

Most likely, that is the way it was with the Z1... the Z13 Video drivers worked for the prior models.

 

Yeah but just like on the Z1, sony drivers were and always will be crap. Hope that the Z2 community will take over and build some proper driversets soon. Don't rely on Sony drivers. Equipping a 4 grand machine with such outdated and buggy drivers is simply outrageous.
That proves to me that Sony simply does NOT want to implement common solutions / best practice tech in their products which may get supported with official drivers. In that regard, I don't think a one year old Z1 will get another graphics driver update ever. Their proprietary implementations are supported for a short lifespan only (shorter than the actual lifespan of the product). Pure marketing here. In 2012, there will be an Ultra Media Dock©®TM with another connector and another implementation which is absolutely incompatible to any other VAIO product on the market.

At least all this crap has a fancy name.

 

How Sony accidentally did the right thing with Light Peak | This is my next...

Not sure if this has been posted but in this article people from both Sony and Intel say that the Z's implementation is proprietary and will only ever work with the PMD.

 

I wonder if I can just use the latest greatest Intel HD drivers on the Z2 and forget the PMD?

 

^Yes you can.

 

And you'll obtain some support on OpenGL 4.x ... and an improvement in games around 5% (against Sony/Intel drivers without ATI.. the standalone package) and a 10% improvement in OpenGL applications. You'll lose auto-brightness.

 

I don't like auto bright... but can you still adjust it yourself?

 

Sure!!

( I don't usually like it too.. but I admit that this auto-brightness is very good .. )

 

For me, auto-brightness is working with the stock Intel drivers.

 

You're right.. but it's not good as Sony's... I mean, with Intel stock driver there's no fade effect on changing brightness.. in addition, Sony's change brightness in function of what you set in that moment.. with Intel it's not like this.

 

So the Intel auto brightness gain is the one based on image and projected power use, and not ambient light?

 

No, it uses ambient light sensor. Now I updated driver and it seems to work as good as Sony's (well, apart fading effects)

 

True. Fading would be nice instead of the sudden changes of brightness. I ended up turning it off. It's more distracting than useful to me.

 

Is there really an improvement in games? I ran 3dmark06 with the Intel drivers and the Sony drivers and got very, very similar results.

 

^ avarage of 5% in games and 10% in Cinebench 11 ... 3DMark is something to avoid. It's useless (example is the fact that PMD is fastest then an integrated 6630M in 3D mark but in real games it's slower.

 

Isn't 3dmark06 outdated now anyway seeing as it doesn't tell you anything about DX10 and 11 performance?

 

In my opinion, 3D Mark 06 doesn't tell the truth even about DX9 XD
Generally, 3D Mark it's useless.

 

Got to look at a Z2 and the PMD. Impressive gear. Didn't realize the PMD was so thin. So as to be absolutely clear I ran GPU-Z on it finding the TB link is x4 2.0.

 

The Light peak chip connected on either end is a PCIe x4... HOWEVER, there is more than just the GPU using the link. So I dunno about the validity of GPUz in this

 

I put whole GPU-Z and device manager connections in this threadpost: http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/611372-vaio-z2-pmd-driver-testing-investigation.html#post7928298

 

That's not Light Peak as Thunderbolt has two channel which go @ 10 Gb/s per each channel in both direction. One channel is for DP in Thunderbolt and the other is for PCI-E. In Light peak one channel is for sure for PCI-E the other can be for DP and other stuff as USB ODD Ethernet (or these ports can be all on the PCI-E channel leaving DP a solo channel). By the way the 4X 2.0 that you see is the connection bus inside PMD... (32 Gb/s) but the channel for PCI-E supports maximum 20 Gb/s averall... so it'll be a 16 Gb/s in reality (4X 1.0).

 

I dont currently own a Z2, the graphics performance is holding me back. I love the portability, but wish their PMD supported a better gpu. I'd be all over it if vidock made a setup to work with LP!

any newer news on the updated modular LP/TB vidock?

 

I haven't heard any movement on this in a while, don't hold your breath. Sorry to be negative, I just know how these things usually go. If the LP implementation wasn't specific to one Vendor/Model then we would have this product already... but LP is only on the Sony Z2 so it is hard for any hardware vendor to justify the cost of making this for our small niche. The idea about piggybacking something on the PMD buy desoldering the ATI chip and soldering on a cable that could plug into an existing DIY eGPU has merrit, I might have my friend who is a solder jedi do this for me if/when I get a Z2

 

If you go down the soldering route then you'll either need a ReDriver IC TX/RX pair or a very short cable length to be able to maintain a x4 2.0 link as we found in the DIY eGPU thread. If don't want to integrate that then the link with auto-negotiate at x4 1.0 speed. Copper has problems being able to transmit at pci-e 2.0's 5GT/s.

Then again, if you went to the trouble of getting a x4 1.0 PMD link going then why not consider a 900P 14" Toshiba R840 with expresscard slot and wait for the imminent release of a x1 2.0 DIY eGPU kit? It too will give approx x4 1.0 link speed (x1 2.0 with Optimus pci-e compression = x2 2.0 = x4 1.0) using the expresscard slot?

If the portability is an issue then consider a 12.5" Lenovo X220/2560P or 13" Toshiba R830. The 2560P being able to host a quad-i7 giving a stack of horsepower under the hood (in 720P form).

I know CC is a Sony fanboy but thought I'd put it out there...

 

I tried an X220 a couple of months ago and Lenovo had changed their BIOS (earlier in the year) such that the Express Card slot was rendered useless for the Vidock if you had more than 4 gigs of main memory. It was a known problem on the various forums and may have stretched across the whole ThinkPad line.

I sent mine back and went with the Z2.

 

I cannot express how disappointed I am with Lenovo's lack of response to the TOLUD issue affecting their X and T series, making their expresscard slots unusable if equipped with 4GB or more RAM. See Re: Request to fix TOLUD in newer BIOS files - Page 5 - Lenovo Community . I will certainly tread carefully with any future Lenovo purchase.

A glimmer of hope comes from pyro (NBR member) who might be releasing a user hacked X/T-series bios that sets TOLUD=3.0GB to eradicate the problem. So anybody interested in a x220 + DIY eGPU solution via expresscard slot may wish to monitor the DIY eGPU experiences thread for announcements like pyro's most recent one here.

 

I would have been satisfied with the X220 for $1000 less than the Z2 if this had worked. But I only upgrade once every 18-24 months and Lenovo has lost me on this cycle. I'll check in again with them in mid- to late-2013!

 

I'm back..

At the moment Village says they're in standby for both TB and LP... they have (due to Intel's lack of time) to join other companies to obtain licenses (that's what Intel said to them).. so I think it'll be a long way to go for TB.. probably impossible for LP. I hope in some miracle but it's really difficult even if they keep saying they'll develop it.

Probably, we'll have to use external GPU with USB 3.0 / PCI-E bus only..

 

Actually this is not so SONY specific and this USB3/LP implementation was demo in May 2010 in europe on a compal machine (unfortunately the only record I have of this is in french ... High-tech : LCI - Plein Ecran du 8 mai 2010 - Infos - Replay )

But yes your point is valid as Sony is the only one and the first who cared to make it happen so far

 

Well I have a idea for a convenient eGPU setup.
Hopefully the new Z will work well for eGPU.

Have a look here http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/619904-vpc-z2x-convenient-egpu-setup.html

 

Sorry for being so absent during the last months but, University kept me very busy..

By the way, your idea is very good I think and theoretically seems ok.. as for me the problem would be that.. I need vga port

Did you manage in the project?

------------------------------------------------------------

I've always controlled some news about Village Tronics but in the end, they didn't do anything, as expected due to Thunderbolt doc issues.

 

Guys, some news.

Take a look here: https://www.facebook.com/VillageViDock/posts/10150734866994135?ref=notif&notif_t=feed_comment

I've already told the about the fantastic work by MikjoA, the real problem there is that we have to modify physically the laptop. So I re-proposed the idea of a Light Peak-Thunderbolt translator since in the next months Village Tronic problably will have access to TB doc.

Practically they would like to make a "joint venture" with commuinities to develop in some way a translator like this ... give a shot here: https://www.facebook.com/VillageViDock/posts/10150734866994135?ref=notif&notif_t=feed_comment and here https://www.facebook.com/VillageViDock in the first post talking about their C2.

Don't know if it's a feasible way but I'd give it a try.