Was considering first VAIO Z, but I fail to understand...

Over the past few weeks I decided I was going to pony-up and spend the money for a good ultraportable. I have never owned a VAIO but they have always seemed like well designed laptops. I started researching the Z and all looked great until I came across numerous complaints on the following issues (in order of concern to me):

1. Scratches on the LCD resulting from palm rest and keys. From what I gather this basically boils down to poor design, an it seems to have affected both Z11 and Z12 models due to the screen flexing, even under normal use and no weight being placed on the closed lid. I have heard horror stories about Sony customer care regarding this. I did a search on this forum and have found limited posts about the issue. I even see people making excuses for this saying "this happens with every laptop - it's expected that you are to put something in between the screen and the keys to protect it." This may actually be the most laughable BS statement I have ever seen. I have owned over a dozen different laptops from a handful of manufacturers, and not ONE has ever had this issue, and I would find it completely unacceptable on a $2000+ laptop these days. Is this issue still prevalent in current Z12's (I read something that alluded to a more durable LCD being used now) or are the other stories I've seen overblown?

2. Build quality. Yes, 3 lbs is great, but if I need to go above an beyond to pamper this thing and worry about it breaking constantly, it defeats the purpose of buying an ultraportable. Who here carries their Z around regularly, and how does it hold up? What is the flex like in the chassis (not to worried about the screen)? I don't need toughbook ruggedness, but I expect it to be of at least typical quality when compared to other machines that go for a fraction of the cost.

3. Sony customer service. As alluded to above, I have heard horror stories about how Sony will push almost every valid warranty claim back on "user error". Is is really this bad? I feel like the extended accidental damage coverage would almost be a requirement for buying one of these.

4. Heat. I have read that heat is excessive in these machines and makes it unfriendly to use as an actual laptop. False?

5. USB 3.0. Everything I have read about the Z13 indicates no USB 3.0, when lower VAIO models have been revamped to include it. Tell me it's not so?

Not to take shots, but if there is merit to the concerns above, why do people feel that this machine is worth the cost even considering the SSD and speed (it's a serious question - I'm not being a smartass)? I'm actually looking to be sold on the laptop because it looks great on paper, but I don't want to regret it.

Thanks for the help...

 

I can tell you right now that your heat concerns are misguided. People complain about the heat, but they are complaining because it is relatively hot, not hot to the point where the notebook is unstable or where any harm may come to it. The fact of the matter is all notebooks run hot, which is why they are no longer called laptops. Having an SSD will reduce heat some, and having an integrated GPU option is also a bonus in that area.

 

Everyone buys their Z for their own reasons. Here are mine:

-extremely fast disk i/o (SSD in RAID0)
-extremely fast processor (i7)
-lots of memory (8gig)
-huge screen real estate (Full HD screen)
-can game and have battery life (switchable graphics)
-portable (3lbs)

As a software developer, I've had this checklist in my head since my first desktop replacement laptop 10 years ago. I was extremely surprised that it was Sony that was first able to hit every point. After 5 months, it is still the best computer purchase I've ever made.

I suggest you think about what is most important to you in an ultraportable. The Z very well may not be for you. Others will excel in ruggedness, battery life, price, etc.

Regarding your points:

key marks on screen: yes, I can verify this happens. For me they were not permanent as I was able to wipe them off, and haven't reappeared since I started putting a microfiber cloth over the keys. This is not a laughable solution for me since I consider it a very small sacrifice for what I do get (my list above).

build quality: hard to say what the build quality is like. I've had no issues. I have treated it like all my other laptops (which is admittedly more on the delicate side). It did suffer a fall from about two feet onto hardwood. No damage or marks. I don't expect it to be as rugged as my 7lb 15" laptop, but it is much, much better quality over my original 10lb 15" desktop replacement.

customer service: haven't had to experience this yet. Can't comment.

heat: I've used the laptop maybe twice on my lap - mostly it is on a table. When I did use it on my lap, it was in stamina mode and on battery. The bottom was warm but not burning. I was wearing denim.

usb 3.0: yes, I can confirm no usb 3.0. From what I recall, it was the additional power requirements of usb 3.0 that led the designers away from using it. Not saying it was the right decision or not, but it was an intentional decision.

 

1. I do not have an issue with keymarks on the LCD of the Z11. I also use a keyboard protector, which adds a mm or two height onto the keys, and still nothing on the screen. I get some smudges sometimes, not sure whether that's from the palmrest or my hand, but they wipe off and are definitely not the permanent bruises I got on the screen of my last generation Z. I use a waterfield sleeve for traveling and it is quite thick and sturdy, which may help preventing the screen flexing.

2. Mine has held up fine, I transport it on a day to day basis. In my mind the Z feels less sturdy than other laptops I've purchased, but I'm not sure how much of that is fact and how much is psychological due to how light the thing is. There seems to be a common issue with the right hinge screws loosening and needing to be tightened. Also, the black palm rest and mousepad is prone to showing wear. I'm not sure whether it wears faster or just shows the wear as shiny patches more readily, as this has been a reality for all the darker colored painted laptops I've owned.

4. The heat is fine. A great chunk of pretty hot air blows from the vent on the left side of the computer, so if you're putting it to one side of your desk I wouldn't put it on the right side. The bottom stays a reasonable temperature, except during gaming. The charger gets super hot (think macbook charger temperature).

5. No USB 3.0 in the US models is a disappointment, particularly as the Japanese models get it. Keep in mind the Z has an expresscard slot.


When I bought my Z, the SSD was a minor consideration. The reasons for me were (in order):
1. Discrete graphics in a 13inch or smaller
2. Screen - a gorgeous screen and semi matte. None of this glossy crap or, even worse, the edge to edge glass montrosity which is an instant fail. I was happy with the screen resolution too, even though I didn't end up getting the FHD.
3. Light weight - portability for work
4. Small bezel - purely aesthetic, but if I'm going to staring at thing daily for a year or two I want to be happy with what I see.

There was not a ton of competing laptops up for consideration.

 

1) scratches on the lid: any laptop has that problem if you dont protect the lid. As for the flex in the lid, some consider the flex as a good thing, as the lid being so thin, if it were rigid, the screen would snap instead of flex. So because of the design, it's more beneficial to flex, i mean the lid+screen's only like 4 mm thick... There is wear on the palmrest however, but the silver one hasnt been reported to have much wear, but as with all laptops w/ plastic palmrests, there will eventually be wear

2) I carry around my Z everywhere in my backpack in a ZeroShock III case (i'm a college student). It has held up well, but then again, i dont really toss it around (but if you want, you could as you dont have to fear losing data because it uses SSD's versus HDD's) Also, the chassis is made of carbon fiber... stronger than the aluminum of the MBP... but like all non malleable substances... once you break the threshold, it'll shatter, but as long as you stay under the threshold, the lappy will be fine.

3) I've heard horror stories too, but then again, i've never worked with them.

4) re: heat: what you've heard is WRONG. This thing generates heat, but it has one of the best systems to rid the system of heat. It's one fan in a 1"-1.3" that manages to rid heat through a component packed chasses with a full powered processor and dedicated graphics card... Well, the bottom of the notebook stays pretty cool on a desk, just dont block the air vents on the bottom(should be common sense)

5) nope, no USB 3.0, BUT Sony managed to stick an ExpressCard 34 slot in the Z among all the other components. So you could buy a USB 3.0 adapter for your Z.

Why i bought it:
13.1 inch... full powered processor, dedicated graphics, HIGH res screen, 1"-1.3" thick, optical drive, SSD's in RAID0, and all at 3.1 lbs... NOTHING comes close to the weight and specs of this notebook. If you're after power and dont care about weight, then there are MANY alternatives out there... but the point is that it's amazing how Sony managed to cram this many HIGH end components into such a small chassis.

 

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I am going to make a trip to the Sony store this weekend to see it in person. Two other things:

In regards to the key/screen issue, I would like to provide some protection for the screen in the form of a skin or a privacy filter instead of dealing with loose microfiber. Any suggestions?

Also, does the Z12 have a TPM 1.2 chip like the Z13 will? I want to use BitLocker without the USB key since I will be carrying it often. I'd gladly deal with a Z12 if the price gets knocked down a little when the Z13 arrives.

 

For the US market, the VAIO Z12 do not come with TPM chips. However, the new VAIO Z13 will all come with TPM chips.

 

I just ordered the z12 and was wondering what the express card slot does and what it had to do with usb 3.0 does.

 

Long story short:

1. I protect my lovely device with a custom cut, black Radtech ScreenSavrz. IMO def. no BS since it protects, cleans screen, case and keyboard from dust and oil and you can use it as a mouse pad. No compare to standard microfiber cloth, very nice quality and soft surface. I love it.


2. The build quality is very good. The baseunit body itself is samewhat stiff due to its milled aluminium plate. The screen is flexible but I tried the flex with the lid when I had the ~2mm thin display removed and I was impressed by the stiffness of the carbon fiber compared to the weight/thinness. I think for the size and weight of this device, it is very solid and durable. I would never expect a toughbook having that weight.
Property of Rachel:


3. Sony's customer service did not win a price in my case but in my experience, if you are pushing hard and you insist on what you want, you will most probably get it. By doing so, after I got about 3 hierarchy steps ahead (supervisor-of-the-supervisor-of-the-account-manager) I saved 1000+ EUR after finally I got them to deal with my complaints.

4. No heat except out of the vents when gaming hard. You can dry your hair with the hot air which is blown out when you game but the chassis itself keeps somewhat cool (I never experienced this ever on a laptop - burning hot MBP is BS compared to that).

5. Slide in a 10 bucks USB3.0 ExpressCard34. If you like eSATA more, click on the link in my signature. Both available as flush fit card. So what?

Finally your last 2 questions:

Honestly, go for a cloth. Having a film or privacy filter permanently on the screen is more disturbing than a cloth which you can just slide in and out before/after use. As you can see at the top of this post, this doesnt look that bad, does it?

US will face TPM only in the new Z13. If you dont worry opening your device, you can put in a TPM module from EU in 10 minutes.

 

Expresscard Slot is like an explansion bay where u can add in any variety of add-ons to your laptop. Adapters for eSata, Firewire, USB3.0, etc., TV Tuners, ExpressCard SSD's, GPS add ons, etc.

 

To be more technical, the ExpressCard slot offers connection of add-on cards through two internal interfaces: USB 2.0 and PCI-Express x1.

USB 2.0 is mostly used for serial / parallel port adapter cards, PCI-Express is used for more speed-demanding connections like eSATA, video cards (ViDock) etc.

Summing up, the ExpressCard is a very versatile slot and makes your laptop capable of being upgraded for years.

 

The other guys answered it more succinctly than I could

 

That picture makes me cringe... i'd NEVER do that with my Z... but that's exactly my point being that in a thin screen, the ability to flex is a added bonus.. if the screen was any stiffer... you'd have a cracked/shattered screen if you tried that...

 

Can I ask what you had to deal with Sony customer service for? It seems like people having to contact Sony for issues with the Z is more of the norm than the exception. This is what concerns me considering what we're shelling out.

Where would I be able to get the TPM chip, and would me opening it up void the warranty in any way? If I have the chance to save a couple hundred $ by going with the Z12 when the Z13 comes out by installing the TPM myself, I'd be all over it.

 

Opening the laptop automatically voids the warranty for ALL notebook/laptop manufacturers (unless there's a specific RAM access panel or HDD access panel) In any case, what Sony doesnt know, wont hurt them, just remember to take out the TPM module if you do need to send it in for repairs...

 

Dead Pixels, laptop was scratched so I complained and got a new (better) one.

 

As we had this warranty discussion before:
Opening your laptop and adding a new hard drive or a TPM chip will not void your warranty, that's just what Sony want's you to think.
In Germany they have to proof, that opening and adding the TPM chip damaged the device.
From what I've read in this forum it is the same for the US.
The thread is just some days old, so you should find it easily.

 

I have to add that in europe we have stronger customer rights providing two years warranty by law in addition to the manufacturers voluntary warranty. In contrast to Sony's warranty, you have legal rights to get a defective product repaired/replaced or refunded within those two years. In the first 6 months, the seller has to prove that the product was not defective when sold (kinda impossible, so in most cases then it is automatically declared as DOA). After that, the customer has to prove that it WAS defective when bought (sometimes very hard).

Example:
When your hinge gets loose at the display after a time, it doesnt matter if you have opened the device before since that obviously there is no correlation between that. If you do not know what you are doing at all and you break the keyboard ribbon cable when opening the laptop, of course you are screwed.

In contrast to that, Sony's warranty is toally voluntary and they may restrict whatever they want (that's why it is called "limited warranty"). If they call opening the device "unintended use" of the product, your warranty will be void if you do so. For that case, many manufacturers stick labels on screws etc. which you have to break when you want to open the device. But, since the Z does not have any of these, if you know what you are doing, you can open the device cleanly - so Sony will not be able to find out you have opened it. I nearly disassembled and cleaned a friend's VGN-Z completely (mainboard, keyboard, display) after he flooded it with Coke, half a year ago he had his hard drive and DVDRW replaced by sony without any complaints by them.

Long story short: Ignorance is bliss. Period.

 

Very interested in the Radtech cover - where did you get it? Did you cut it to size using one of their Macbook--sized covers?

 

What dimensions did you use when you had them cut the RadTech Cloth?

 

This is mine with the keyboard cloth that Sony included when I bought my PC

 

komugi, don't you hate how the middle mouse button on that mouse is located under the mousewheel, instead of the mousewheel itself?

 

I also got that cloth when I bought my Z.

 

Haha, It takes a bit of getting used to, but I rather love the switchable scrolling on the mouse, so I'm willing to be inconvenienced in that area. And I honestly don't use my middle mouse all that much.

 

does that cloth come with all Vaio Z in the usa? I bought a Z13 but did not get any of that. The laptop itself came in a kind of cloth bag though.

 

I've got a question for all of you. I currently have a Z590 and have been wanting to upgrade to the VPC line for a while now. I was waiting for CES but I'm thinking i might jump the gun and go for a VPC13.

It seems like many of you game on your VPCs, had the computer ever shutdown from overheating?

I tried gaming on my VGN over Christmas (was snowed in at my GF's so no PS3 since that's at my apt) and while i got Mass Effect and Arkham to run, after about 15mins the computer just shut down. Trying it again while running GPU-Z showed a temp of 105deg C before shutdown, so I'm betting it was just overheating.

I do architectural graphics work on the machine on a fairly regular basis but in the 2-3yrs I've owned it I've never taxed the GPU continuously like that for more that a few minutes at a time so I've never had it give out on me. I'd like to avoid that situation with my next purchase which is why I'm asking about the VPC.

 

if not in hurry, wait for 2-3 months, there's real vaio Z replacement around the corner. I also have Z590, skipped VPC-Z for very bad experience with palmrest wear-out issue, plus I don't like this palmrest idea in a first place, much better with "old" Z590, though I prefer design of VPC-Z, especially the way they have incorporated cylinder hinge inside body, unlike "extension" as in Z590.

Next vaio Z will have new Sandy Bridge, much faster and overall better battery life, so unless in deadline or so, I would advise to wait and at least see if you like new design...I know I will.

Cheers,
Miki

 

My Vaio Z11 with Core I7 runs nearly all games very smooth.

Tried:
Darksiders (FHD, medium- high settings)
Dragon Age Origins Goty (FHD, high settings)
Divinity II Dragon Knight Saga (FHD, high settings)
Fallout: New Vegas (FHD, medium- high settings)
Anno 1404 (FHD, all high)
Fifa 11 (FHD, high settings)
Left 4 Dead II (FHD, all high)
Star Wars - TFU II (FHD, medium settings)

I have NVIDIA 8.17.12.6063, no overclocked GPU!

All games run without issues and I have to state that my old Samsung Q45 Devesh got much hotter than the Z!