Was it worth it?

Hello everyone! I've ordered a Vaio Z11 and was wondering if I've gotten a good deal or is this standard.

Yesterday I ordered a vpcz1190x CTO Refurb from the sony outlet for $1234.42:

-i5-540M processor (2.53GHz w/ 3.06GHz turbo)
-256GB (256GBx1) SSD w/ Raid 0 ( not sure how this works, is it faster than normal single SSD?)
-CD/DVD Burner
-4GB DDR3-SDRAM1066
-1600x900 Display
-I was a little concerned because the Geforce 330GT was not listed in the specs. but I'm assuming that was because it comes standard with all of the Z series?

 

Yes, every VPC Z has 330GT switchable graphics. You can also switch to the integrated to save battery.

Raid 0 is faster than one SSD in everyday tasks. It takes a few seconds longer to boot up compared to a single SSD but nothing to worry about (just the nature of Raid 0.)

I think that's a pretty good price. A new Z13 with 256 SSD is $2k or so?

 

It's a good price for a Z.

But whether it is a good price for a refurb - you will find out a few weeks or months from now It could turn out to be a great deal... or it could make you regret it every single day

I personally would not buy a refurb laptop, especially not for a 4 digit price. But that's a matter of personal choice and opinion.

 

For that price, I humbly think that it is an excellent deal.

I'm very sure you'll love your new VAIO notebook once you've received it & started using it. Congrats on your purchase.

 

That's a good deal. It's only about $100 more than I paid for my new Z11 but you got 256GB of SSD instead of 128GB. 128GB of SSD is worth more than $100.

 

And that's a matter of unknowledgement
A refurb can be a brand new CTO command that has not be honoured.
It could be computer in stock on a special market.
However, at Sonys and for a lot of different cases these outlets comps may be all brand new and never opened. Check with sony customer service when interested in a model, for its history.

 

Thanks for your response. I didn't know about the raid having slower boot times, I assumed it would be faster when completing tasks. So they list it as 256GB it's one chip with 128 on each side? And if it were listed as 256GBx2 it's a total of 4 sides, and that's how they get what's called "Quad SSD"?

 

The SSD configurations are actually different for different markets. I don't believe the US ever got quad SSD but we do have a 512 option so my guess is 256X2. Raid 0 takes a tad longer to boot because it needs to post. The advantages of Raid 0 is much faster performance within the OS- so it'll be even quicker to open programs, etc than with a regular SSD. Honestly, if I didn't mention anything, you probably won't notice! I only noticed it to begin with because my other laptop with a single SSD boots faster than my Z.

I'm not sure which market you're in, but there are two possibilities for your 256. Either 128X2 or 64X4. It won't make that much of a difference to you since Raid 0 just sees the drives as one drive.

 

Thanks everybody for your input, it sounds like I've gotten a pretty decent deal if the thing performs as it should. I should have it by Friday.

It must be 128x2 as I ordered it from the US outlet, thanks for taking the time to explain that. I currently have a single SSD in my ul80vt, boot times are quite ridiculous (probably 25-30 seconds). I'll miss the super boot times but I'm sure it'll be worth the extra performance and space, my ul80vt only has a 120GB SSD.

 

I might actually be exaggerating a little. On my example, it takes ~45 sec to turn on from hibernation. If I do a boot from shut down, it comes up very fast, faster than hibernation. On my Vaio C when I boot from hibernation I think it's quicker than 45 sec. I guess I should be more scientific and time the other comps and from shut down/hibernation. All I know is that the C "feels" faster with its Agility OCZ 60GB SSD. Either way, your Z and your ul80vt are both pretty quick!

 

"can be", "can be", "can be" .....

That's the point It can be a lot of things (returned, defective, repaired, demo, etc.) and what it really is - you will find out in a few days, weeks or months.

New is new.

 

Just get an extended warranty or a personal articles insurance policy for 40 bucks per year.

There is nothing wrong with refurbs. However, be prepared to see some type of scuffs on the casing.

You could buy the same laptop new and drop it tomorrow or get struck by a power surge. Electronic purchases are always a gamble. If it's going to happen, it will happen.

 

Oh this kind of thinking again - "Don't be scared about crossing the street, a car can hit you even while you are on the couch at home" - so cross the street with your eyes closed and hope for the best !???

I'm wondering how do you imagine anyone (apart from a 90 yo. grandma) selling you something new for a much lower price just like that

They know exactly why they are doing it - you are the one who doesn't

It is a matter of luck however - I agree. Could have been a small problem that was fixed or just a scratch or a defective WLAN ....

anyway - it is already purchased - the answer will present itself

 

Not quite the same, it's more like cross the street without living in fear of getting hit

 

Buy a NEW laptop and do that
The rest is buying without knowing what you buy - crossing without seeing

 

Very true!

Let hope for the best, he/she deserves it.

Hopefully it's one somebody purchased and changed their mind within 30 days. With the price point of the Z, I would be willing to bet a good portion of those refurbs are exactly that.

 

Crossing the street blabla. This is BS! You can also get a defective brand new computer, who cares. You can baby your 4k$ machine as much as you can, drop it off at a repair center and you get back a scratched piece of crap.

Gracy, I don't aggree with your prejudice comments in this topic. Please don't take it personally.

Buy a "refurb", check it thoroughly, if you are not happy with it, just return it! You may be lucky, you may not. But why would it not be worth a try?!

My friends and myself purchased 4 "REFURB" Z's with an avg 50% off the CTO price and 3 out of 4 came in brand new condition. And with brand new I don't mean cleaned but used/display product or returned due to defects - I mean unopened box, no scratches, not a single fingerprint, S.M.A.R.T. check states 2 hours total PowerOn duration of the SSDs (and you can't reset that!).
We all know that Sony even realizes profit when selling a full specced Z for 2k$ instead of 4k$.

Anyways, each to their own.

 

I never said it is not worth a try I only commented to the question "was it worth it" - the answer will present itself in XX days from now if he decides to keep it.

I personally would not buy refurb because I don't have the time and will to test a device in my spare time and always be suspicious that there is something not as it is supposed to be. New is new and that is a fact.

And again - don't think that anyone is stupid enough to give you a brand new machine half price They know why they are getting rid of it Even if it is just a scratch that you wouldn't care about.

 

In the EU, you have the same 2yr warranty on outlet models like on the CTO machines and I am sure 99% here ARE willing to spend half an hour to get granular on a laptop when they have the opportunity to save hundreds of bucks.

No single scratch, machine poweron time = initial factory OS installation, no defects or bad screen means brand new machine. This for half the price means great deal. Simple equation.

 

What? Initial Factory OS installation? You know that the first thing they do if you send your pc for repair is to flash the default image of the system ))) And what if the WWAN crashes every half an hour? Or overheating problems? Or any other not reproducible errors?

But again - it is a matter of personal choice - I just wouldn't want to live in a constant fear and suspicion that my "new" machine has a problem and is not as it should be.

And once again - nothing in this world is free - all that looks free is just a form of leasing! Those guys there are paid to make money, they are not Santa's assistants And they know perfectly well what they are selling you and why cheap We live in a capitalistic world!

As I said it could be just a small scratch or a returned laptop which had a defective key which was replaced.... the problem is you never know and there is no way to find that out in half an hour. You can have luck... but you might regret it a lot.
I just don't like playing casino games.

 

That has nothing to do with what I am talking about. Do you know what S.M.A.R.T. actually is? "Power On Hours Count" and "Power Cycle Count" is a relevant and accurate measure in this case.

So you honestly believe that your "new" machine is indestructible or more reliable than a machine that was CTO'ed but canceled before shipment and is sold cheaper in the Outlet? Don't fool yourself!

 

No. I honestly believe that the person or people selling you the machine would be just as happy to sell it to you as you are to buy it. Only he/they would have a very specific reason and you - an illusion that is to be proven right or wrong in the next months.

That's all.

 

Alright, then please explain how microsoft can afford to throw Z's down the drain for 900-1000$ whereas the retail price is 1600-1700$? Guess you think they only sell lemons that cheap, don't they?

 

If I knew the exact reason I could more easily decide whether I want it or not Usually the reason is very different every time however

I can tell you why you can buy a Lenovo T410 from where I work for under 1000 bucks And if you knew - you would never buy it

There is ALWAYS a reason! Stop dreaming of Santa... People sell for profit and not to make you smile!

 

Gracy123 (wow, easy name to type) and pyr0, It's good to see a take on both possible variables.

It's good to have Gracy123's viewpoint which is basically "Something can, and probably will be wrong with it." Because that encourages me to do extreme testing to be sure that I haven't been sent a dud.

But it's also good to hear pyr0 that there are instances where the laptop is actually new, because I'm expecting to see a machine with scratches and a year of wear, but it's nice to imagine that I'd end up with a new unit and I haven't even considered the possibility.

Whatever the case, I'm hoping this crazy weather doesn't delay my shipment before I head out on vacation in a couple days (it's supposed to arrive 1 day before I leave if all sticks to schedule).

 

Sure, you have valid points for a refurb. However, that doesn't mean all new notebooks will never be a "lemon" where its defects are not discoverable straightaway. At least a refurb is thoroughly tested. I can't say the same for a brand new machine. Or maybe I'm totally wrong here.

Of course, you're correct that they'll have to give you the incentive to buy a refurb by offering it for a lower price than a brand new notebook. If not, who would buy a refurb for the exact same price as a brand new notebook?

However, by your logic, (for example) if Sony gives us a 20% discount on a brand new VAIO notebook, we shouldn't buy it no matter how tempting it is because it is very fishy?

 

Doesn't those defective parts come from brand new machines in the first place?

I guess when buying a brand new (not a refurb or even a clearance model) VAIO notebook for the full MSRP, we'll have 0% chance of getting any defects because we did not get any discounts at all so the manufacturer will be very "honest" & not "scam" us.

 

HA... If I only didn't work in the testing and developing field for a manufacturer Tested? And Half price?? You guys really live in another world! Do you "test" your car before selling it? You just fix everything obvious quickly and as cheap as possible This is how it works!

No no - new is new and everything else that is not allowed to be called "new" for ANY reason is called "refurbished". Let's not mix them! If it is "new" it has not even been bought and returned - so yes - if it is called "new" I would buy it with any discount!

Exactly this is the point!! It is all about chances! From the top of my head a new laptop would have a 5 or 10% chance of a defect, whereas a refurbished one has 30-70%

It doesn't have to be a 0% to be much lower than refurb!

 

Take a look at it this way...

At that price, you can't find another 13" laptop on the market that will give you those specs new or used. At least you have a 90 warranty, the option to buy an extended warranty and the option to return.

Hell, an 11" 1.6 MBA cost more than that!

 

You are comparin refurb to new Of course you can find similar deals among the refurbished...

 

Tsk, tsk. How many commenting here have actually purchased refurbs? I purchased the Z11 in my sig for $855 from a non-Sony but very large computer refurb company that provides a 30 day full refund policy. It arrived in perfect, like brand new, not a single scratch on it, condition. It has performed flawlessly for a month, and I bought an extended wtty just to be safe.

Previously this year, I purchased 3 other refurbs - 2 from HP and one from Fujitsu. All were in brand new condition and 2 performed perfectly indefinitely. The average price was 60% off original street price, for models that were still current.

(One, the Fujitsu tablet, had a mobo burn out in the first two weeks. They sent me a loaner for the 3 weeks it took a backordered mobo to come in. The loaner had better specs except the screen, which was lower spec. When my original tablet PC was fixed (exactly when promised) they offered me three choices: 1) get my original back, test it and if happy, send the loaner back. If I wish, keep the loaner for the same price as the one I'd purchased - $765 for a $2,100 list computer that was first sold new 3 mos previously! or, return them all for full refund and accept a $100 credit if I wish to buy a different one from their large selection (Fujistu corporate) outlet store on eBay. I kept my original refurb and it has worked flawlessly for 6 months.)

Can't tell you how many new computers from every mfr I have had to return for refunds, replacements or endless repairs. Refurbs may not be perfect for everyone, finding the one you want takes patience, and you definitely must get one that has a liberal return policy and comes from a reputable company. (Third party refurbishers are fine, if they are reputable. Bought my Sony Z from "cheetahdeals.com," which is the retail web site of Seneca Data, the largest independent refurb company in the US; mine was fine but others who I referred the detail received units with problems. After a one day hiccup, the Executive VP of Customer Service intervened and everyone was taken care of, to my knowledge).

I hope the OP gets a great unit and is delighted with the great savings. In any event, those who have not had first hand experience with - well, anything, but in this case refurbished computers! - should not give "advice" to others, especially when the "advice" is little more than to make the purchaser feel more apprehensive while awaiting shipment, possibly never feel as good about his purchase, thinking it "tainted," when it is anything but!

Deltido, best of luck with your purchase! It should be great. If it isn't, and Sony can't get it fixed right, get your money back and - by al means - strongly consider buying another one refurbed! They make excellent computers and excellent values. And, especially from Sony, a human being has looked at it, replaced cosmetically damaged exterior parts, if any, and personally eyeballed functional tests with carte blanche to replace any part that appears suspect for any reason; that doesn't happen with new Sonys!

 

Thanks for the encouraging words, It's good to see that your refurb vaio is still alive and kicking!

 

Deltido, I got my HP dv6500 refurbished 4 yrs back and it had no cosmetic issues and still running perfectly! I too am in the market for a refurbished Sony Vaio Z series laptop. Hopefully I find a good deal soon. Good luck on your new purchase! Post back after you receive it.

lovelaptops: Thanks for the website! Do you know any others?

 

I received the laptop today. It's much smaller than I expected. It looks very good -- only one tiny scuff mark (so minute it took a while for me to find it). It moves very fast, So far I've tested 1080p YouTube videos and no crashes as reported by some others. Had to add the multi-touch driver for the touch pad. So far no problems at all. My next test is to see how well it works with the Dolphin Wii emulator. Thanks again everyone for all your input

Update: One thing that does bug me about this machine is the flimsy feeling battery I may have to stick some paper or something in there silly I'd have to use such a method on a $2,000 machine.

 

Dolphin runs good!

 

Sorry Sid, just got lucky with cheetahdeals. Just keep checking all the deal sites and google the product. I expect that soon, as the new Sony SA and Z's come out and even some people replace their current Z with a Thinkpad X220 they will pop up used on NBR and eBay and other user sales forums like anandtech.com.

Yes, it is almost disarmingly small and light and the battery shamefully does not lock in tight (though it shouldn't be at risk for falling off, just annoying wobble), but I suggest you "get to know" the machine on a solid work surface, develop confidence and admiration of its prowess and ease of use, then find your own way to use it on your lap or perched on a sofa arm without it tipping or flopping around. I bought a new Z last summer and actually returned it because I found it too light for comfort, but this time around knew just what to expect and was bound and determined to find a "new" way to work with a laptop comensurate with its size and weight.

Do keep us posted and post some stats and benchmarks: use Everest or SIW to get internal temps and other operating data, CrystalMark or HDTune for SSD speed, your own battery life experiences (don't forget to turn off bluetooth, put it on "stamina" mode and create a "power saver" plan for best battery performance).

Oh, and, mostly: enjoy!

 

Could you give us the names of some of those deal sites?

 

Thanks for all the tips, lovelaptops. I really appreciate your genuine concern.

I'm not sure when I should be posting the temp of the processor and gpu in Everest. I do see that the gpu fan is at 100% but i just got done playing "Metroid: Other M" in dolphin for about 30 minutes, but it doesn't look like the fan's going to step down from there. I'm installing HD Tune now and will be posting the bmarks soonish.

here are my HD Tune results:


HD Tune Pro: Intel Raid 0 Volume Benchmark

Test capacity: full

Read transfer rate
Transfer Rate Minimum : 310.1 MB/s
Transfer Rate Maximum : 349.2 MB/s
Transfer Rate Average :
Access Time :
Burst Rate :
CPU Usage :

HD Tune Pro: Intel Raid 0 Volume Random Access

Test capacity: full

Read test

Transfer size operations / sec avg. access time max. access time avg. speed
512 bytes 4478 IOPS 0.223 ms 1.674 ms 2.187 MB/s
4 KB 4008 IOPS 0.249 ms 1.779 ms 15.657 MB/s
64 KB 1838 IOPS 0.544 ms 2.098 ms 114.889 MB/s
1 MB 164 IOPS 6.071 ms 14.555 ms 164.707 MB/s
Random 315 IOPS 3.171 ms 13.601 ms 159.994 MB/s

Does this look normal (for 128x2)?

 

"Was it worth it" - a good question about refurbs:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/574393-urgent-help-needed-please-z11-essentially-died-me.html

 

Correlation is not causation.
Or do you have some information we don't that shows that the user putting wrong RAM in is a problem caused by it being a refurbished machine?

 

Lol Arth: I put the same wrong RAM in my wife's new not refurbished machine as well But maybe there is something wrong with the brains of those of us who even consider purchasing rebrubs that guarantees only morons buy them and therefore when we report no problems (or even blemishes) on them, its just because we are too moronic to notice they are all beaten up and don't boot up - though that green light on the side shure is purdy. .

@Gracy: I'm sure you believe refurbs are vastly inferior products and unwise investments for people - or why would you constantly look for evidence of it and pounce?! - but I think we've seen enough evidence on this thread alone that they can be excellent values and they can be "lemons," not unlike new computers, except that they cost 50% less and enable some people to own a caliber of product that would be out of reach in a new model.

And please, may I ask a favor in advance? If I post another problem with my Z, regardless of the apparent cause, would you be kind enough to either offer help resolving it or just remain silent? Taking the opportunity to say "I told you so" to someone whose computer just bricked is, well, just not the most compassionate or helpful use of these forums. Thanks.