Weird keyboard bug that affects ALL NEW VAIO SZ SERIES.

This problem affects ALL new (less than 6 months old atleast) Sony Vaio SZ series notebooks:

If you hold down a certain key for more than x seconds (usually between 10-30secs) it causes the CPU cycles to go past 90% which completely bogs down the machine (until the key is released). This causes music to skip repeatedly, and the computer to generally be in a "stuck" state.

I have a Sony VAIO VGNSZ670N/C, but I just tried this on all the SZ series machines in the sony style store and it happens with every single one. Note this does NOT happen on TZ or FZ series (I checked).


To reproduce this:

*1. Make sure you're in battery mode (so unplug machine from wall)
*2. Make keyboard speed the fastest. Go To Control Panel->Keyboard and make repeat delay to shortest and repeat rate to fastest.
3. Go to performance monitor so you can see your CPU cycles. (either that or just play an mp3 and you'll see that it starts skipping at step 4.)
4. Click on your desktop and press and hold the "Page Down" key for about 30 seconds.

* optional: it will make the issue much easier to reproduce. although this still occurs without doing these.

After about 5-15 seconds you'll see that your computer begins to hog all CPU cycles until you let go of that key. If it doesn't, repeat step 4 until it does.

Also note: this happens to me with arrow keys as well. For example, go to notepad then go to the file menu and just hold the "down arrow" so it'll scroll through all the menu items and just leave your finger pressed for about 30 seconds.

Anyway, I'm wondering if this happens to you guys as well. I just opened this issue at the Sony customer support and they will review/possibly make a patch for it. But this may take a while. Until they do, maybe we can figure out the reason for this issue?? Because to me this is a big deal. I do alot of prorgamming and when I do basic things such as scroll down my text editor on a large file (via page down) my computer gets into this "stuck" state, and when it does, the music i'm listening to skips incessantly like a broken record until i release the key. It's driving me nuts!!

I'm almost certain this is a sony/vista driver issue because this problem does not occur in safe mode (only in normal mode).

I tried to find the reason to this with no success. I've tried disabling all drivers one by one, not running any services or startup items. Removing currently running programs one by one, but it still occurs. If anyone has experienced this or knows what is causing this please comment!! Thanks.

 

I can't see ever needing to hold a key for >30 seconds but to each their own.

Hopefully you find a remedy to your problem.

 

30 secs is to definitely repro the problem. But I've had situations where this occured only after a few seconds of holding down a key.

 

This problem is even more serious than I thought. Even if I press the "Shift" key for more than 8 seconds it does this.

Do me a favor all you sz-series people:
1. play your favorite mp3 song
2. press and hold your shift key for a long period of time (>10secs) preferrably
on high keyboard speed and battery mode.

you'll see your entire system goes hay-wire. What the heck, I even verified this AGAIN in the sony-store. This is completely unacceptable!!

Also, I checked with Sysinternals Process Explorer and it's showing something is throwing "Deferred Procedure Calls" when this happens. The only question is, what is this something??

 

Maybe I'm just plain stupid but why do you want to hold down a keyboard key for a long time?

 

I could be mistaken but it sounds like someone needs to find a problem with their computer...

"Every time I right-click and hold it for six hours the batteries go dead in my cordless mouse...the world is ending!"

 

Right off the top of my head I can think of several situations where this could happen. If you're using a program like photoshop the shift or ctrl keys are often used to modify the tool you're currently using. So you could easily be holding the key down for over 10 seconds.

If this can occur while playing games then definitely it would be a big problem, I use my shift key to crouch in some first person shooter games, you could easily be crouching for more than 10 seconds.

Even just typing, I rarely use capslock, I usually just hold shift.

Dosn't seem like such an inconceivable occurance to me.

 

This happens to me also, and it is very annoying. bmoc already lists a few reasons why.

-Holding CTRL while copy and pasting from clipboard
-Holding backspace key to delete

 

Yeah, you guys are correct. I wonder how I could miss such simple things.

I guess I am just PLAIN STUPID! LOL! :laugh:

 

I believe there is something going on that causes keyboard input
to compete for cpu cycles and even causes the keystroke to be
delayed or missed (happens if you type very fast) I have a program
where I am constantly using the pagedown and up keys and yes
the CPU cycles go way off. It is unacceptable, and either a driver
or hardware change should be provided by sony asap. The problem
is that the issue only arises under specific and certain circumstances.
Perhaps Sony knew of this and thought the incident was low enough
not to be cought or the cost of revamping an entire KB line would outway
the cost of dealing with the problem/defect individually.


I will contact SONY and issue my complaint, I suggest other do likewise.

 

Server9, I called them last week. At first I talked to one of their regular tech support staff, and then another, and finally I was forwarded to one of their systems engineers. I plan to give them a call in a few more days and speak to one of their general managers if they haven't patched this up yet.

This is a very serious bug as it happens with *ALL* sz-series (even the ones currently sitting on the sony-style store shelves) so I'm sure it's something that Sony will look into. When a solution is found for this, I'll post it on this forum. This is unacceptable for a $2,400 laptop. Hell, I have a cheapo $900 dell laptop running vista that doesn't do this to me.

also Server9, there is an easy way to fully reproduce this: just keep your shift key pressed, or any key for that matter, for a long time and you'll see it (cpu cycles start going mad). See my first post for more details. But yeah, sometimes it can happen randomly when I just start typing or when I just press a key for a very short time. For example, I'll just start typing something in google and my cpu cycles will go nuts just for a split second causing a blip in my sound, etc.

 

Some things to note:

1. This issue does not happen when you connect a usb keyboard (and try to reproduce the steps on the usb keyboard).

2. This issue does not happen in safe mode.

3. Both normal mode and safe mode use the exact same ps/2 keyboard driver.

Therefore, I don't think it has to do with the actual keyboard driver. I think it's due to some type of complicated driver conflict or processes that conflict as a reslult of keypresses, but I have not isolated it.

 

I look forward to hearing about a temporary DIY fix until we get an official solution.

 

If you have Vista, can't you take a look at the resource monitor in task manager to get a clue--seeing if anything bumps up from before the 100% CPU usage begins to after?

 

Issue / Problem CONFIRMED in preliminary testing.


VISTA Bus with 3Gb Ram

Under xpPro, using another sony vaio, the same test yielded no
adverse affect for the same above anomalies. The keyboard
interupts are peaking at + or - %50 and then holds the system
(freeze points) until the interupts are freed or released. This would explain
missing keyboard inputs when typing very quickly. My guess is that
the vista oem driver is interacting with sony oem driver or viseversa?

more testing to come...

contact sony everyday and ask for status on ticket...

 

Thanks for the info. Did you see anything bump up the list of resources in the "resource manager" under task manager? It's the one that shows the .exe, .dll activity. Sorry I wasn't clear enough. I tried to do this today at BestBuy, but they had this BestBuy program on startup that doesn't stop loading, so I couldn't get to the resource manager while it was hogging all the resources, and when ended in task manager, the computer shuts down.

 

no additional exe's or dll's that I could notice. but i will redo the test
with more advanced diagnoses

standby...

 

I have been following this thread all day. Reminds me of the Y2K problems . JK, anyway, I couldn't duplicate the problem on my old SZ260P. I have practically rebuilt my SZ over the last 18 months. One thing I notice over time is how improved Vista is now. I re-installed it several times and than I found Acronis. The current install is so perfect I couldn't think of XP. I know that is off topic but I just wanted to say I am not having that problem. I wonder if it is a Santa Rosa problem?

 

Unfortunately the CPU utilization listing 'Resource Manager' as well as 'Processes' listing in windows task manager doesn't show any .exe/.dll when this happens.

However, if you download 'Process Explorer' at http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx

you will see that whenever this happens two rows appear on top:

Hardware Interupts
Deferred Procedure Calls

Unfortunately, Process Explorer doesn't show which .DLL's or .EXE's are causing this.

I also verified these DPC "spikes" with a tool called "DPC Spike Checker Tool" when this happens the meter in this tool goes off the chart, you can get the tool from:

http://forum.tcelectronic.com/viewtopic.php?id=30

I think there are other, more informative tools around to check what driver (.sys) is actually causing a DPC spike, I tried doing this before but haven't spent hardcore time on it. I'll take a look at it again though later on.

 

I came across this bug while playing Doom 3. Apparently, it's the keyboard that causes this. After pulling my hair out for many days, I found a simple solution:

Just go to Control Panel-> Keyboard and reduce the repeat rate of the keyboard.

There were 3 sliders that you can adjust. I move the "Repeat Delay" to the second level (it was default at level 3) and move the "Repeat Rate" to the similar spot.

Doom 3 does not stuck any more! Cheers! Let me know if this work for you

 

Yes, the problem/anomaly is a hardware issue it seems.
I will try this simple solution and see if the same thing
happens. But I already suspect there is more of an issue
that just setting the repeat levels lower. It just might have
worked for you in that particular application, but I have seen
keyboard registry lag while typing before my eyes and this
tells me thatindeed there is something else causing the delay
problem.

 

Setting the key rates lower helps make the problem come up less frequently, but it can still occur nonetheless + I kind of like high-speed key rates. :-(

I'm not 100% sure it's a hardware issue since it never occurs in safe-mode. It's probably some kind of driver/software issue (well I certainly hope so). I've spent hours trying to figure out what may be causing this, but I've been unsuccessful so far. *sigh*

 

wow, i didnt realise it was the keyboard but i always wondered why my itunes used to skip like that..now i know. just tested it out on my new vaio SZ780N, and got the same problem. Ctrl and Page down keys got the CPU cycles up after about 10secs, while the shift key took around 20 seconds...its absolutely unacceptable, yes...i really hope someone finds a solution for this, official or not!

 

Happens to me too! While playing games it is VERY noticable.. Game totally hangs until i release the key.. Reducing the key repeat rate helps tremendously, but i wish Sony can come up with another solution to this!

And oh yes, if downgraded to XP i have NEVER got the wierd keyboard problem..
Forced me to install all my games on XP and regular usage onto Vista

 

Zmir: just to confirm, you have dual-boot on your machine (vista/xp) and the keyboard problem occurs in vista but never in XP right?

 

Oh god!!! I'm happy I read this threat!!!
Everytime I play CSS I got this problem, never new why!!!
I updated my nvidia drivers and still had this, then formated and still!!
So now i'll just reduce the rate but it's a shame...
I tought my grafic card was overheating, or some other problem in there... :s

 

i dunno about dual-boot machines...but im running XP Pro and the same problem occurs for me too

 

heshanj, xp pro and you get the same problem? that's very bad news ... i wonder if this is a hardware issue then...

 

@Ryan007
Yes, im dualbooting Vista SP1 and XP SP3, keyboard problem only in vista!

@heshanj
Really? Coz so far i dont think i have experienced the extreme lagging holding down a key. Can anyone else with dual boot confirm this?


And oh yes guys, try running vista plugged on AC power and TAKE OUT the battery from the vaio, see if the problem still occurs?

 

For what it's worth I can't seem to replicate it with XP. Maybe it's not a hardware defect so much as a (Vista) driver issue?

 

Have any of you tried replicating the bug with a USB keyboard?

 

For those who are feeling bad that they have to reduce the keyboard repeating rate, I have to say "get over it", lol. Really, I can't think of any real life situation when you want to type one letter over and over again for a long period of time. As far as gaming goes, I don't see any lag or slowness in movement after the repeating rate reduced.

I am running XP SP3 by the way.

 

Shinyfalcon, the bug doesn't happen when hooking on a USB keyboard.

Maverick, this problem happens very frequently (even when holding down arrow key for a couple seconds at times) and causes music to skip. This is a very serious problem that should be taken care of. If you're running xp sp3 then it's probably not an issue for you, but for those of us running vista, trust me, It's a biggie.

 

Can't replicate it with a USB keyboard either. (XP)

It's been almost a month now since you opened the support ticket. Any comment from Sony about this Ryan? What about opening a ticket with Microsoft? Maybe it's a bug in Vista that happens to rear it's ugly head with this particular set of hardware? (If Microsoft says it's a hardware issue then you can use that to escalate the ticket with Sony)

Aside from the OS it might be worthwhile to specify which processors everyone has installed. That and the RAM timings are the only other hardware-related variables that might explain why we can't reproduce this 100% yet.

My proc is a T8300. RAM is 4-4-4-12.

 

Whoops... somehow missed the second page.

Anyways, it's probably a glitch in the software, specifically the one that makes the brightness settings, etc work. Maybe if someone can try replicating the problem on a fresh install, then we can see if the problem is with the software. I don't know if the software is the same for XP and Vista.

Now, how about a bluetooth keyboard?

 

iisdev, I've contacted them by phone about 3 weeks ago and opened an "event" as they call it. I haven't heard anything yet. I've emailed them yesterday about it and I got a generic response on how I should try to contact them again by phone and speak to a higher authority within their organization - which I'll do this week and keep you guys posted. Again, I am able to reproduce this 100% (I did so with each of their current SZ series laptops in the sony-style store) Please read my posts on how to do this. I'm not sure about xp but this is definitely reproduceable on vista.

shinyfalcon, as I said this issue is not reproducable on an external keyboard. I don't know about you, but bringing in an external keyboard to a coffee shop (where I usually work) is somewhat cheesy.

 

Hello everyone!

I have reproduced that problem on SZ730E/C, on a clean Vista Home Premium, that was installed from a retail DVD after HDD partitioning and formatting, no drivers or applications that are not bundled with Vista were installed. Sony drivers and utilities are not the cause of the problem, I believe.

 

Very interesting... It's kind of odd for it to be a problem with hardware...

I couldn't reproduce the problem at a Sonystyle store, but the AC was plugged in. Tried the 750+ models (they were weird models not found on P1). Maybe I'll head back there today and unplug it.

I'm curious, Silvery, but is the ASIO option already there in Control Panel on a fresh install? I have a hunch that it may be that. Post a picture before doing anything with the ASIO.

 

Unfortunately, I have already installed a number of Sony drives and utilities since then, so I don't have "clean" Vista anymore, sorry.

 

You should consider opening a ticket with Microsoft. Silvery, was that a slipstreamed SP1 retail disc or the initial release? It would be great if someone can confirm this bug in Vista SP1 prior to the installation of the necessary Sony drivers..

 

It seems that I found a solution for the problem, see link in the end of the post. The article says that the problem occures after an upgrade from XP, but I applied it and cannot repoduce the problem anymore, I haven't tested it thoroughly though. Can someone try and confirm that it works?

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927840

Added: As correctly pointed by Ryan007, the flag mentioned in the article might be absent in your Vista installation and should be added manually. To do so, follow Ryan007's instructions:

 

Too bad there isn't one for XP.

 

sorry, didnt check here for a while. the problem definitely affects my SZ780 running XP Pro (downgraded from Vista). its much better once i reduced my repeat rate slightly...i can live with that i guess...but it still messes up after about 30 seconds (ctrl key) and about 45 (shift)

 

I have a Napa SZ with XP which doesn't seem to have this problem, and these DWORDs are in HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters:

[value name - value data]
PollingIterations - 2ee0h
PollingIterationsMaximum - 2ee0h
ResendIterations - 3

 

I tried this and my the CPU only went above 80% when i was using high performance mode. The CPU remained under 10% whilst in balanced and power saver mode. This is never going to be an issue for me as i don't use my computer when on battery in high performance mode.
I think that the vast majority of people don't use high performance mode when on battery power either.

Also, i leave my keyboard settings on default anyway but obviously for this test i did not.

 

There is a Microsoft KB article that describes the very same flag for Window NT 3.5 and NT 4, and I think that it is applicable for Windows XP as well. You can always try to add that flag and remove it if it didn't help.

 

I just got a brand new VGN-SZ71VN/X (Germany) and I don't regret it ab bit
In fact, from what I've read, I prefer it to any new series, also because I followed its evolution online.

Running in Stamina mode, with AC supply (mains), pressing the "down arrow" for a significant time, I was able to recreate this problem on Windows Vista Business.

However it won't be an issue for me... So I'm not too bothered.

Just to add what I can see...

 

SILVERY!!!!!!

You found the fix, It totally works!!!

First off, let me just say that you're my personal hero. This thing was bugging me for quite some time. I've been testing this out for the past half hour. I had a REALLY big grin on my face as I was pressing the down key for more than 5 minutes at a time and it didn't reproduce this. I was on battery, fastest keyboard speed setting, and "vaio maximum battery" performance settings. This is definitely the fix.

To all others, BEWARE!!! If you follow the KB article it says to change "PollStatusIterations" but you need to create this value because it doesn't exist (atleast not on my machine anyway). So follow the path in the registry as instructed:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters
and then go: New->Dword (32-bit) Value and create "PollStatusIterations" and give it a value of 1, then reset your machine. (At first I accidently changed 'PollingIterations' to 1 and restarted my computer and both my keyboard on my mouse didn't work!!!! so I had to go into the F8 menu and go 'restart from last good config' ... argh, I almost had a heart attack when my keyboard didn't work. so again, make SURE you're doing this on 'PollStatusIterations'!!!)

Again, thank you so much Silvery!!! You've made my day.

My machine specs:
SZ670N/C, Vista Business.

 

Interesting and good info for the Vista folks. Good work Silvery!

 

any fix for XP?