What am I going to replace my Z3 with?

I've had every version of the Sony Z since it came out (even with it was called the S...) but now Sony is apparently discontinuing the Z, I am at a loss of what to buy for my next laptop.

I was one of the few that loved Sony's idea to parcel off the PMD for a lighter day-to-day machine but I don't expect to find any other company doing that,

What I'm looking for is the same weight and power (hopefully better power since this is a year later) and, ideally, good style.

When it comes to laptops, since I use them all day everyday and they are my main work tool, I'm pretty much money is no object so all recommendations are welcome.

Anyone have any suggestions?

 

I looked for six months and found nothingbas light as z3, forget about that kind of power in a package as small as the z3

 

Due to the fact that Haswell has been delayed 4~6 month, we're still technically in the IB cycle, so you won't see too many new laptops coming out to replace the Vaio Z form factor/performance just yet.

Though as many have speculated, it seems like the Tablet/Slate form factor will be here to stay, and thus the Duo 11 (and it's successors) may actually be marketed to replace the Z.

Unfortunate, but one can only hope that with Haswell, performance & battery life will improve so much that even a ULV processor becomes desirable for the power users ...

There is the option to go for a MacBook Pro 13.3", and use a Thunderbolt eGPU solution... (Though the MacBook Pro 13" is quite a bit heavier than the Vaio Z, and it lacks a Quad Core option for those that absolutely need the maximum amount of parallel processing power; for rendering, for example).

 

As the others have pointed out, getting the same kind of performance in the same package will probably not be very likely.

Here are your options as of right now:
- rMBP 13.3" - This machine does not have a quad core processor and has no dedicated graphics (like the Z) but is similar in that it is fairly light and thin and has a retina display.
- Vaio Duo 11 - does not have nearly the same processing power as the Z (it has an ultra-low voltage processor) but has a jaw-dropping 1080p 11.6" screen and has an option of up to 512GB SSD. It also matches the Z in terms of the upscale-ness and the build.
- Sony Vaio S13 Premium - Once again, this machine does not have a quad core processor and is not as thin as the Z. However, it has an onboard dedicated graphics card: the Nvidia 640M LE. I t has a 900p screen as opposed to the and out of the previous two options as well as your Z3, has the worst screen as it is a upper middle TN panel (meaning that it is better than mediocre but not high end).

Other than those, all other options are ultrabooks or ultraportables such as the Lenovo X230 (1366x768p IPS 12.5" screen), Toshiba Portege R935 (this machine does not have the same fit or finish as any of the other machines mentioned in this post).

I just wish that money was no object when buying a laptop for me!

 

Why do you need to replace your Z3 already?

You'd be hard pushed to find a premium 13" machine with a full voltage CPU. The best option would be the 13" rMBP which is a masterpiece of engineering IMHO. I'd personally wait for the Haswell models because of the huge boost to the integrated graphics and approx 10-15% CPU boost over Ivy Bridge.

 

Thanks for the feedback... even if it's not what I want to hear

Hard to believe Sony introduced a world beating design/package almost 2 years ago and no one has been able to top it or even approach it to this date.

Haswell is released in May? Hopefully someone will come up with something by then.

rMBP is a nice machine but heavier and less powerful. Plus battery life takes a hit when using Windows.

 

Is Sony not going to introduce a Z replacement or similar in 2013?

 

No one knows for sure either way, there are no official announcement and no Z prototypes shown during CES this year. For all we know, they could be killing it off.

Z's are on sale at Sony Stores and are even marked as "While Supplies Last", so one can presume that they are being cleared out and no longer produced.

 

And then they went and shot themselves in the foot by abandoning it. No updated drivers; no Windows 8 drivers. GRRRR!!! Had it not been for the excellent work done by guys in this forum like Nautis and Andrew08, my Z1 would have been practically unusable.

 

That's the problem, Sony's lack of driver updates for their laptops are disgraceful. I can count on one hand the official updates released for my 2010 Z1. What really annoyed me was when Sony decided that they were not going to offer Windows 8 drivers for the Z1. And the Z series excelled in many areas but if fell well short in plenty of other areas. Apple seems to understand all of this, hence why their machines tick all the boxes and most of all have excellent support and regular updates. Apple doesn't just abandon users like Sony do. Sony ruined the Vaio brand all by themselves.

 

Which of their machines has a sheet battery for over 10 hours of use? Which one has quad i7 and weighs 1.15kg?

I had looked for a very long time before I bought this machine and I did not see any of the Apple products to tick alll the boxes.

 

There are alot of newer machines announced at CES this year. Sony makes great machines, but the lack of an CORE processor upgrade at the moment makes them seem like the current models, ( which by the way are very good) the s13/s15 are very good machines when upgraded with ssds and the geforce 640m le card assures you of gaming if your into that. good luck.

 

I'm not sure I'd recommend the S13P to a Z owner. They're similar yet very different.

If I were in your position I would just wait until the spring. The Z3 is still a little beast of a laptop and will still be plenty powerful to last you until then. There's still nothing on the market than beats it, so why not just keep it for a few more months?

 

I can get 7-8 hours with my MBA if I need to, or I can do something really far fetched like plug it in to the mains. The times I've been away from civilisation and my MBA has conked out due to a lack of juice has been precisely zero times.

Quad core i7? Not needed. My MBA runs the stock i5 ULV CPU and handles my workload & a few VM's with ease. It also weighs 1.3KG which is hardly a back breaker.

The problem with the Z series is the totally unacceptable level of fan noise, even when under mild stress, it's a very poor design in that respect. I also have a T420s with an i7 CPU which clearly has a more expensive cooling set-up as all you can hear is a mild push of air from the vents when under heavy load.

 

You are not answering the OP's question. He want the power of the Z, not an i5 ULV CPU.

 

I already answered it. There's a reason there's a lack of machines in the Z category - they don't sell, no one wants them & they don't make money. Users like us make up a tiny insignificant portion of the market.

 

I'd recommend stop crying about the power of full-fledged Core i processor on Z. In fact, if you carefully look at the comparative tables in the net you'll see that the difference between Ivy ULV and, let us say, full-powered Sandy processor is almost zero. Please, put aside "myths" about impotence of the ULV systems in terms of power compared to blah-blah-blah super 4-8-10-Core processor with nuclear hydrogen engine .

There is a lot of alternatives.

Samsung Series 9 X4C is the most closest to what you may expect from Z form factor. In March this model will gain FullHD screen.
Acer S7 with Core i7 and RAID SSD with cosmic speeds!
Panasonic CF-AX2 (2 batteries on board, up to REAL 8-9 hours of autonomous power)

The list can be continued....

Keep your eyes opened, don't stick to the DEAD concept of sexy Z2. In fact, had you ever got a chance to open its chassis, you might have been shocked seeing the terrible engineering inside left by young Nagano designers: sound system, hinges etc - all is half baked, poorly constructed and/or just not well-thought-out there! The only thing that should be really praised, in my view, is a brilliant Thunderbolt implementation. The only one and indeed unique!

 

But you are comparing a Sandy Bridge i7 with an Ivy Bridge ULV, while the OP has an Z3 meaning it is an Ivy Bridge i7 and it performs much better than ULV Ivy Bridge.

A great machine, I agree and have no doubt about it.

ULV CPU, nbattery life uncomparable to Z3 with a sheet battery. 2 months at least until it gets an FHD screen. Single SSD and uncomparable read/ write speeds because of that.

Don't try to move without the power brick a battery life is reallly bad.

Single SSD speed, ULV CPU

The list only shows laptops with one strength each while SVZ incorporates all of them.

It will be dead once Sony announce it dead. For now, there is no reason for Sony to out a new series if there is nothing new they can put in it compared to the Z3 model. I have already stated that elsewhere an am just repeating here. Wy put money into R&D of something that brings nothing new. Just like the Series 9 that at CES got a new FullHD screen - hardly revolutionary. Once Haswell is out, we will see, but for now there is simply nothing newer that can enhance the current lineup.

 

^ Samsung 13" has approximately the same realistic battery time as Sony on BOTH batteries (in fact, quite a heavy sandwich system - much reminiscent of ancient 2001-2002 IBM Thinkpads). 4 hours you can squeeze out of Z without a sheet battery is, saying frankly, far from been perfect.

Acer has an addtional optional battery clung to the bottom, if you need 6-7 hours!

Panasonic - have no data about its SSD speed, but 400 Mb is quite good anyway.

Check the tables/charts, as I said, the difference between full powered systems and ULVs even WITHIN ONE and same architecture lineup/family isn't considerably great.

I think you should reformulate your requirements in case you need DISCRETE graphics and power for video encoding, gaming etc.Then your question points out an unsolvable problem indeed.

Sony cannot manage R&D investement in the areas that are not of primary concern for the company in 2013. PC industry is out of it.

 

I have a feeling that nVIDIA missed a trick here. If they could have added power options to their GPUs that would force it to operate in an ultra low power consumption mode, there would have been no need for the switchable graphics mess in the first place. The mess happened because the switching has to take place between Intel graphics and nVIDIA graphics, so the drivers need to be made by two (rival) companies working together, with Microsoft butting in as well with newer-OS-related stumbling blocks.

In an ideal world, the switching would have just been between nVIDIA normal mode and nVIDIA ultra low power mode. No mess; excellent driver support.

Similarly for the AMD side, although they at least have both CPU and GPU items in their product lineup. If they ever get their act together and come out with a CPU to challenge Intel, things could get very interesting.

 

1.65kg heavy, interesting.

Sony with a full quad CPU get 9-11 hours.

Not if compared to 900MB in RAID.

Compromising again. ULV IS NOT the same as NON-ULV.

And rightly so. There is nothing new happening in this regard so no point concentrating on PC market. Same CPUs, same RAM, same SSDs. What is the point to upgrade?

None of those listed computers are UPGRADES. They are side-grades at best.

 

Hardly a choice for a mobile user who prefers light michines like MBA. 1,65 is already the realm of 15,6" laptops! The time has changed significantly since 2011 when the first z2 appeared!

Unrealistic. I moderate the thread of Z2 owners on IXBT since April 2011. No one had a chance to get such figures! Moreover, the newest Z2 on Ivy even shows some frustrating figures compared to the ones on Sandy. 6,5-7,5 hours is a standard result both on Core i5 and i7, unless you switch off WiFi and send the machine to the idle state, with 100 cd/m2.

This more of marketological perception that imposes mental splits on consumer's mind.



No porofund and critical differences in performance in between two generations of processors, just with one exception in the first line.

Design & construction, chassis, Thunderbolt optic implementation, use of new materials like glass. The field is wide.
We see nothing of that. R&D shifted to:

1. Imaging, like RX1 fullframe photo and mirrorless NEXs
2. Mobile phones
3. 4K TV and Video

In 2012, Sony pushed itself on to the realm of medical equipment. No PCs.

 

Manufacturer quoted results. The same you did for the other machines.

Interesting:

i7-3632 5.8 in cinebench. The other ones less than 3.

i7-3632 271 in wPrime1024. The next one is 579. Very close, indeed. It only took twice as much time to complete the same task

You still forget the Z3 is being talked about in here, not Z2.

I see a tendency for criticizing Sony in here. Why is that? People will not buy new PCs only for revised chassis. That is a fact. I agree it could be sturdier.

Thunderbolt - how many HDDs, accessories will you find for that right now?
Glass - heavy as hell.

 

Szadzik,

6 hours for Samsung 9 is pretty much real, while the manufacturer quots even 7 or more... The same is true about Panasonic's eight hours. Sony Vaios were never in the list of long played ones except of TX and TZ notebooks in 2005 and 2007.

If someone needs quad-core systems for work he/she will rather shift to Dell Precision workstations and DTRs instead. The segment of those who prefer Vaio in this case (for sake of image) is miserable.

When I said "glass" I mean the same metal&glass construction as used, for instance, in Acer S7 13". No Gorilla mentions!

Yeah, we are talking about future Vaio on Haswell, that is, Z3. I mean Z2 is VPC-Z2xx and SVZ13x.

Criticism is justified, in my view, I used Vaios for years, but 2011 proved to be the start of decay in many terms for Sony's PC industry. The last great product was dated back to 2010 (VPC-Z1) and 2009 (VGN-TT). Z2 was rather a sort of disappointment due to the idea of young engineers to build a notebook made of carbon fiber from the very beginning to the very end. What we see now is the way downhill.

P.S. LightPeak technology which we call Thunderbolt was a great innovative start, why not to bulid Sony's own ecosystem on it, with more preripheral devices?
P.S.S. It will be more correct to name the thread "What am I going to replace my SVZ with"

 

And what if someone wants that laptop to be ultraportable? Should they carry around a laptop weighing 4-5kg?

What are the real benefits of that, though?

To me Z3 is the 3rd iteration of Z, SVZ that is and none other.

This criticism has nothing to do with the fact that the current iteration of the Z is an excellent machine incorporating a lot of things that no other laptop has.

Because they're not Apple?

 

You're still not answering the original question. You're trying to answer the question from a PC-manufacturer about what type of computer they should design to make the most profit.

We want to know what future laptop will be better in all (at least most) aspects than our current Z3 (and by Z3, of course we mean the SVZ, not Z2). If all we needed was power, we would of course not have Z3 at all since there are more powerful systems out there. Then we would probably have a 8 core Xeon based system. But we don't have such a system, we have a Z3 because that's our preferred balance between power and size. For example, my old preferred balance was the 11" TX series, but then I loosened on my size constraints in favour of power and switched to the Z a few years ago.

Personally, I don't think anyone can answer that now, because no Haswell laptops have been announced yet. And since Haswell seems a bit late, we will probably be forced to wait a while before we know anything. But I'd be surprised if *no* manufacturer will use some of the higher powered Haswell CPUs and put it in a sub 1.5kg laptop with decent h/w to accompany it.

 

They will. Or actually will use something of a compromise.

Take S7 in your hands, you will think about "sturdiness" of Z (and possbility of light design and weight in other metal worlds)

Personally, I see NO difference between Z2 and SVZ - the same chassis, everything is the same except of Core i upgrade. You may call it even Z4, given the existence of VGN-Z (2008).

It does, as the current Z is far-far from being a perfect machine. Moreover, criticism itself is relevant due to Sony's lowered and lagged standards in PC production. The latter looks more like photoshop cloning of one or two models for 3 years.

Because they put ideas and money into it and have all the resourses to push forward/modify optical interface further. Of course, it is their right to abandon things that have prespectives on the market and put them into oblivion.

 

True. If one wants to seek for answers it should (probably) look (or at least pretend to do it) at the current things from the angle of manufacturer. Sony got huge losses in 2011-2012, their banner now is definitely profits and only profits, not the dreams and wishes of fora users whose market share is 0,00001. If you want the cream of R&D - buy RX1 or NEX cameras. By the way, in 2013 there will be a fullframe one.

 

Why exactly do I need to wory about the next five iterations of this laptop if the current one is the only one on the market? Why do I need to worry about Sony's profit or whether they will develop a new iteration of this model or not if the one we have right now IS the most powerful ultraportable? Why do I need to care what cameras they develop? I do not care about such things as they do not influence my choice of laptops.

 

Then there was no need perhaps to create one more thread here with the question about alternatives in the light of Z discontuned (with the predetermied answer to it). Just enjoy what you have.

More interesting discussion is here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/658740-official-haswell-z-speculation-thread.html

 

I was not the one creating this thread

I have been reading the Haswell thread and am of course hoping for Sony to out something to replace the Z with Haswell on board, but at the same time am in no rush as the current model is perfectly capable. Maybe the OP is not into PC stuff and was not aware that there has been no significant development in PC components since the release of SVZ, and that is why he created the thread hoping there is something much newer.

 

Szadzik,

thanks, understood!

My efforts then are not completely useless, just tried to discuss why we cannot expect alternatives from the side of Sony itself now, and enlisted most suitable replacement: Core i7/RAID 0 SSD 256/13" IPS touch/up to 7 hours of battery life...

I guess, this is IPS touch panels and... Win 8. In this terms, as well as in terms of materials used, S7 surpasses technologically Z3(4). But surley this excellence stops as soon as you attach external GPU in your PMD. That's all, folks.

 

I'm not sure why you think this supports your argument. It shows that the QM completely demolishes the ULVs (even the i7), with 30 to 100% better performance across the board. It's like saying "Sure, you want a car with 300 horsepower, but why not buy this other car that has... 100 horsepower?". Yeah, no thanks.

 

Where did you see 1:3 ratio? I just mentioned about the FIRST line there.

Those who seek for the alternatives, here is some data on battery life of Acer S7 compared to Sony SVZ13 etc.
This is Battery Eater test (Reader's test), in minutes, max. brightness.



The detailed review and tests of Acer S7 in full: Unbelievably thin ultrabook with IPS touchscreen.

Though this very model does not come with RAID0, the one at notebookcheck.com does come with.

 

Looking good. Does the Accer offer the ability to attach sheet battery and over double the battery life?

Acer's website says 4GB RAM. What if someone wants to use VM, RAMDisk etc? S that going to be enough? Will the CPU be as fast as the quad core in SVZ? Does it offer a dock with grpahics card for better gaimng experience? Does the IPS screen offer 96% gamut?

Do not take me wrong, I understand the Acer is a beautiful machine, but in its form and function in is an ultrabook. That is something different from what the SVZ offers. Completely different.

 

Yeah, if the Russian language poses problems, here are the details for screen: 75% of RGB. 350 cd/m2, contrast 800:1.







Yes, it has an additional clip-battery:



Again, battery drained by FullHD video, minutes:

 

Sheet battery sounds good. 75% gamut not so much for those who do anything with photography.

But again, CPU, RAM (not only only 4GB, but 1333mHz instead of 1600mHz). It is simply an ultrabook and not an ultraportable laptop with a lot of power. Still uncomparable to me.

 

lmao this thread started to veer.

I don't really have much interest in corporate R&D allocations, simply whether there was any computer anyone had heard of/anticipated that "checked" the Z3's "boxes", which I see as:

- Sub 3lb weight
- 1920x1080 screen
- Option for dedicated graphics card
- RAID 0 SSD
- 6hr+ battery (which I got initially without the slab battery)

Apparently no such thing seems to exist?

I'd gotten used to technology being better and better as time went on but it seems the Z3 was 18 months ahead of its time?

I guess the Full HD Samsung is the closest but it lacks dedicated graphics.

Maybe I'll have to look into an ultraportable and desktop paired with cloud software - disappointing as the Z already exists.

 

The newer version of SVZ from 2012 with an Ivy Bridge CPU? You still have Sandy Bridge if you say it is 18 months old.

 

The Vaio S is the only one that compares IMO... just the 13" is a bit too heavy and the screen is horrible. The 15" is actually decent, but of course a bit big/heavy (altho 2kg is still somewhat manageable IMO). I'm waiting for an S refresh, hoping to see IPS FullHD and improvements in weight/battery life (and GPU, maybe) on the 13" model.

 

If during the next refresh of the VAIO S they could add a high quality 900P IPS panel and take out the optical drive, I think that would be sufficient for me. I could live with dual core full voltage CPU, especially if it's Haswell. It would be nice to have the premium construction of the Z but not absolutely necessary.

 

You don't need to get the latest laptop every time, wait for the gen after this and start considering, perhaps the "VPCZ14" could come out

 

Hadn't checked these boards in some time. I've had my Z2 for about a year (or maybe more) and love it. I use it every day as it replaced my desktop. I have two PMD's set-up: one at home and one at work, so it gets lugged around daily and connected/disconnected to a PMD at least 2-4 times per day. Most nights, I don't shut it down, just leave it running my stock market charts around the clock. For a delicate little machine, it has proven to be very sturdy.

Seeing how there are no new alternatives, I just bought a 2nd Z2 (used from e-bay - but in mint condition). Since mine has gotten much more than normal use, I was dreading the day it would break down and need repair. I can't live without it for the long repair times; hence I bought a back-up.

It's sad to see the slow innovations. Windows 8, slates, etc, but no one followed the Z2 lead. Would have loved to ventured into a Z4! Unfortunately, doesn't look like anytime soon.