Who else is returning their Vaio Z11 & Z12?

I've owned my Vaio Z1290x for 3 days and have made the decision that it's getting returned. There are just way too many problems with it out of the box that I would never suspect I would have to deal with on a $2k powerhouse such as this one.

My reasons for returning it:
1. Colors on the display screen are terrible. THE worst that I have ever seen on any device. There is way too much yellow.

2. Unable to handle Internet Explorer. This laptop can't even run IE without hiccuping, lagging and stutterning while scrolling. This is just unacceptable as my 20 year old P200 w/ 64MB RAM handles the same exact tasks flawlessly.

3. The 1080p resolution is way too small for a 13" display. I was forced to use the Windows zoom feature at 135% in order to be able to read the screen, but it makes everything look distorted and ugly. By default the resolution is set to 125% zoom, which is pretty much Sony's way of saying we screwed up.
- I'm also not going to watch jittery video from YouTube while in 1080p. The laptop is forcing me to downgrade to 1600x900 just so I can see a smooth picture.

4. The battery is loose. Are you kidding me?!?! I'm not stuffing a piece of paper into the battery bay just to stop the rattles. Unreal.

5. The laptop can handle Google Chrome, but then the touch pad scroll doesn't always work. I'm findering the touch pad only to have the mouse pointer sit still while the screen remains.


I just won't accept these flaws on a brand new out of the box system. It is my worst computer buying experience I've ever had. Come to think of it this is my only bad experience, and it comes as a first-time Sony purchase. I am very disappointed.

 

1. I have found my screen colors and the overall screen experience to be dazzling. Ironically, the best I have ever seen on a laptop.

2. My Z11 has no issues with internet explorer. Pages load quickly and scroll is flawless. I have the 1600x900 screen.

3. I don't think Sony screwed up at all. Setting the DPI to 125% makes text bigger, but doesn't rob you of real estate on the screen.

4. The battery jiggle on mine is not that bad. Personally I don't find that it detracts from my computing experience.

5. I don't use Google Chrome.

I have found issues to be sure, but nothing has been a deal breaker.

 

Basically, you're returning the laptop because of software issues. Except the loose battery, of course.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying everything you mentioned, even the yellow-ish colours on the screen is due to bad software (i.e. Windows). I know this because I have a Z122GX and the colours are absolutely brilliant on with a fresh copy of Windows XP, whereas they looked bad on default 7 installation. I also don't have any performance issues with a clean install of XP, so every problem you mentioned is due to _software_.

The hardware in Z12 is excellent IMO (except the loose battery and a horrible built-in mic), but it means nothing without good software (i.e. the Operating System).

 

As with JP, my screen looks great and i don't have a single problem with IE lagging or such. Maybe you managed to infect your computer with something within those 3 days, lol.

Blaming Sony for your inability to read such a fine resolution? lawl. Don't blame Sony for your eye sight issues, blame yourself for not knowing you're not capable of reading a 1080p resolution on a 13" screen. Were you expecting huge fonts? Why get the 1080p screen if you didn't want small (sharp) text? Honestly, not sure what you were expecting. If you have eye sight issues or "old eyes", you should have gone with the 1600x900 model.

 

I'm with you here, but what you just explained is what I said about compromising. Why should I bend and do this another way just to get it to work, where it should just work no matter what software is installed.

 

You missed my point completely, and it might have been because I didn't explain it correctly. I have no problem reading and such, and had always set my prior displays at 1280x1024... even 1600x1200 on some larger displays.

But the default on this display is way too little for me. I expect crispness and lots of screen real-estate, but I just can't find the proper setting that works for me on this laptop.

 

I suppose that's the risk one runs when dabbling with a 13 inch full HD screen. It's a different animal than 1600x1200 on a "larger display." I guess I'm confused as to what your expectation was with a 13 inch display at 1920x1080.

 

Well lets now dwell on that particular aspect of the laptop. That is the one I would be able to live with. It's the other issues that are unacceptable to me. If I'm dealing with this type of nonsense out of the box, then I can only imagine what's ahead, and I'd rather not have to deal with it and either buy the next version of the Z or go with one of the other competitors for now. The biggest thing that attracted me to the Z was its weight. It was just unmatched by any other manufacturers. But the issues I'm facing are just too much.

 

You might see if Sony will exchange the Z for another. You can see from other posts (not just in this thread but from the others in this forum) that not everyone is having the same issue with IE lagging. If you've just had it, then I'm sure Sony will give you a refund. But I would keep in mind that software problems you're having on the Z might easily be a factor on any alternative purchase. I agree with shurcooL that the hardware on the Z is top notch, and is why the system is so expensive. It might be frustrating, but software retooling could potentially solve your problems, if you can live with the screen and the battery.

 

Yea that's the dilema that I was facing. Do I want to wait until software corrects these issues, or get out while I still can? I think I might go with an exchane first because it's possible that I did get a lemon.

 

Yeah, the experience out-of-the-box that comes with the new Z laptops is pretty crappy IMO. But I think this is the case with _any_ Windows laptop today.

Even if you know how to tweak the system to your liking (usually, I'm pretty good at this), your options may be limited.

This is the main reason I'm really tempted to go for a 13" MacBook Pro or the new Air if it comes soon and proves to have nicer hardware specs. "It just works" can be very nice.

 

I hear you. I'm in the same exact boat as you are. Whenever I bought a system in the past I knew there was going to be some work to be done to uninstall all the bloatware, and tweak it so the performance matches my expectation. It was always fun to read the sites and go through some regedits, disabling services etc... that would impede performance.

This time though, I was kind of hoping that everything would just work. Especially with the 'fresh start' option which allowed those like us to get a clean system to start off with. So far it hasn't worked.

What is the Air? Mac or PC?

 

I haven't done a clean install, I haven't installed any updates (except for RST 9.6), and I haven't even LOOKED at my BIOS. I am running the Z on its factory install of W7 Pro (with Fresh Start) and my out of the box experience has been just fine, right down to the screen colors. Of course, this is all subjective impressions. I do have some annoyances like 17 cursor blinks during boot up, power plan instructions not being followed (which is probably a Windows issue), and some other strange annoyances, but again, nothing that would make me think the computer was a bad purchase. In my humble opinion, I don't think anyone should expect flawless performance from any computer, no matter how expensive it is. I think that's being unrealistic. The speed of the SSD in RAID 0, the i5 processor, the dynamic hybrid graphic switch feature, the inclusion of an ODD, the size and weight, and other hardware features are what make me like this computer. Software bugs will always be there.

 

I feel bad for the people that bought those premium setup laptops for close to $5k that are experiencing these same nuances. We're almost lucky that we only paid around $2k for ours. But only when comparatively speaking.

 

I agree with some of your points but not with your conclusion.

The screen colors are kind of whacky. They are far too vibrant. I've cranked them down and it's much better. If you find the screen DPI to high, why did you get the higher res screen instead of the 1600x900 one?

Yes, explorer does lag at times. That's not a problem with this laptop, but with explorer. On my Thinkpad, it's much much worse. That stutter was so bad there, that at times, I would just reboot to get it over with. I switched to FF on it because of that. FF also lags, but is not as bad. It's better on the Z since the Z is about 4 times faster. Also, that lag has a lot to do with the browsers managing their disk caches. The Z with it's godlike RAID SSD does that much faster.

Overall, the Z is by far the fastest laptop I've owned. I wasn't that fond of it's looks when I first saw it but it's grown on me. The keyboard is a serious let down. Overall, I swore by Thinkpads and I only got the Z due to the low price. Now when I try to use my Thinkpad it's like stepping back to 1990.

 

Can you post up what the color settings you use? By comparison the really cheap laptops you can get for around $300 - $500 have excellent screens and color balance. I was shocked when I saw what the Z displayed when turning it on.

With IE lag, it's just mind boggling. How can the same exact version of IE function flawlessly on a lowly netbook, but have these types of issues on the godsend that is the Z. Wouldn't you think that the hardware that's included in this laptop would be able to overcome any software blunders? At least to a certain extent to make it appear as if it truly is this powerhouse.

 

Yup, I think Idz21 would be happiest with a Mac

 

Don't feel bad for us. Some of us bought the laptop for reasons that no other laptop out there could match: true desktop-replacement specs (core i7, extremely fast disk i/o, high-res screen, discrete graphics) in a 3lb package with 5+ hours of battery life. Compare to my last desktop replacement "laptop" which only had 1 hour battery life and weighed 10 lbs!. In fact, the only "nuances" I noticed in your list was the loose battery, for which I was more than happy to use a small piece of paper to fix.

I'll be the first to admit this laptop is not for everybody, but it hit all of my criteria (and then some).

-Peter

 

lol, agreed

 

Your lowly netbook probably has the disk cache turned off.

 

No Macs for me, thank youuuuuuuuu

 

You know, when I read the list of issues you are encountering, the first thing that came to mind was, "You have a lemon". Did you compare with other Zs in a SonyStyle store (assuming there's one near you)?

 

I haven't tried that, but I feel that I have enough prior experience with PCs & Laptops where I can feel out whether something is not right. I sent in a request to Sony to get an exchange. Hopefully I really do just have a lemon on my hands.

 

With all due respect; this is a really an unecessary poll and much ado about nothing. You may have gotten a bad machine but it sounds like software issues. I'm sorry if your machine is bad but no need to try and incite a movement. As far a color...use the color management. The worst screen? Hyperbole. Font too small? Well now you know you really got a 1080p screen and you must have known the font is really small before hand. Let me ask you this...do you have the Z connected to an external monitor?

 

I hve only one of those probs, mine is fast fast. The battery is loose, but this thing IM keeping it!

 

Your IE lag is 100% definitely a software/configuration issue. When properly configured, my browser runs absolutely blazing fast, just like it should on a Core i5 with SSDs.

By Air, I meant the MacBook Air. It's also 3 pounds, and it is way overdue for an update.

I feel bad for people who say "I paid ${insert a LOT of money here} for a laptop, I expect it to work great!"

What they don't realize is that they paid very little money for the laptop, like $100-200 maybe. They paid for expensive standard components, like CPU, memory, SSDs, LCD screen, etc.

So if you pay $5k for a config with 512 GB SSDs, BD-ROM, and other super expensive components, expecting a "5x better" experience and less issues than a $799 laptop is flawed thinking IMO.

There's a reason ppl used to say Mac computers are overpriced for their specs. Now _THAT_ is a case when you're paying more for your computer, on top of the standard components price.

 

You're right I am trying to incite a movement. I won't let them get away with this!

Not using an external monitor. My gripe was with the standard laptop display.

 

Why is this a poll??

I've owned MANY laptops. The Z is the most impressive one I've owned so far for everything it has to offer in a 3lbs package. Ironically, the thing that was immediately apparent to me with the Z out of the box was how responsive and smooth surfing is, I mainly use Firefox 3.5, but even IE is the most responsive out of all laptops I've owned.

Out of the box I agree the color is over saturated, just turn it down a few clicks problem solved. Yes the color is on the warm side, I suppose it's the nature of this particular panel. My eyes almost popped out when I learned Sony makes a 13.1" 1080p screen (I only recently learned of this Z series), but I know the limitation of my eyesight - I was even apprehensive when I ordered 1080p on the 15.6" Envy 15. I am loving 1600x900 in a 13.1" feather weight package!

Yes the battery is a bit loose, no big deal to me. I've had other laptops with either loose battery, or a battery that is so tight it took some wrestling to get it out.

I mentioned this a few times on another thread. Have you tried Firefox 3.5.10 (*NOT* 3.6.x)? IE scrolling lags (unless you turn off smooth scrolling) on any computer compared to FF. Their default is opposite - out of the box I turn off smooth scroll in IE which is on by default; I turn it on in FF as it defaults to off. That said IE on the Z is the smoothest I've seen on a laptop even with smooth scroll.

 

Hey Surcool,

I'm also using XP (the Sony downgrade disks).

Any special tweaks or software to make the Fn5/6 brightness keys work while using the Nvidia card?

How about the backlit keyboard - Do you manually turn it off during daylight or just leave it alone so that it's always on while typing?

Thanks...

 

I'm trying to start a movement against Sony's quality.

I'm at work and haven't been able to try out your suggestions yet, but will when I get home today. I already put in a product exchange request with Sony and will also be contacting their Tech department to go through any troubleshooting that they can provide.

I'm really hoping that what I have is a lemon, because the way you describe your performance is almost totally opposite of what I've experienced.

 

Nice! High five, man!

I've tried XP from Sony's downgrade disks, and everything seemed to work perfectly in the short time I played with it. I'm pretty sure Fn5/6 brightness keys worked just fine using Nvidia card (Speed setting). Is that not the case with you?

With the backlit keyboard on XP, there is no automatic mode, so yeah, I would just turn it off for general use unless I really need it. Just my preference.

 

And to finish this post; Most of these things are your own opinions or flaws that has nothing to do with the Sony or the Z itself.

ps: i haven't read all posts, so don't blame me if i haven't read something yet.

 

I didn't even know you could turn it off. How do I do that?

 

I disabled smooth scrolling and IE has gotten better now. The scrolling is more crisp. I feel like I still detect some lagging, but it's definitely improved.

 

What are you going to buy instead?

 

I just checked my battery. It's a rock, not wobbly at all. It's just the regular battery and not the big battery. Is the big battery wobbly?

 

I had the large capacity battery and it was a little bit wobbly. As someone mentioned on this forum, the free play might be to accommodate any expansion of the aluminum plate.

I didn't care much ; two little pieces of paper with tape on the battery fixed the problem

 

Shurcool (I got it right this time!)

I had problems with the Nvidia under speed mode - to the point where I changed some registry settings to enable the Nvidia smart dimmer and can now change the brightness that way. The Functions key do work but the screen goes very dim right away and then the range sections stays at the first tick no matter what I press. Good to hear it works for you, maybe I’ll look into it some more… Ditto the backlight for the keyboard, I do the same.

 

If you decide to give it another try i would recommend you go with the 1600x900 screen instead. I've had both and even though the Z had other issues, i think the fact that the resolution was too high and i had to zoom in and out became the icing on the cake that made everything else stand out. I had a Z11 with i5 and only 4 gigs of ram 1600x900 and everything ran very smooth. then i got the i7 6 gigs and 1920x1080 and things felt slower. So I'm started to wonder if these i7's are a bad batch or if the higher pixels might be the cause but i'm def not blaming the ram. Logically you would think the 1meg less cache i5 would be slower but it wasn't.. at this point on my repurchase i'm considering dumping the extra $150 into the 8 gig setup and going with an i5 any thoughts??

 

Where can I grab older versions of FF? Right now the website only has v3.6.6

 

Here.

 

Andy I tried using FF and it's been great. But now I have yet another issue - Adobe Flash. It only works on FF for about a day. Then I need to uninstall and re-install it. For some reason FF doesn't recognize that I have it. My other browsers, IE & Chrome, work just fine.

Anyways, after I tried the fixes that everyone suggested in this thread, my decision is still to return the laptop. It's a great machine and blazing fast, it just has too many annoyances that I can't put up with for $2k. I'll have to go back to the stone age and purchase something without the bells & whistles that Sony offers.

Thanks everyone for your comments & suggestions.

 

I was hoping I would get used to the keyboard, but it's been a while now and if anything, it's gotten worse. My initial reaction to the keybord was "eh". Now that I've used it for weeks, I've grown to seriously hate it. These chiclet keyboards are OK on a low end laptop like a MacBook, but on Sony's premium laptop it's a joke. I so miss a real keyboard like on a Thinkpad.

 

I kind of agree - I spent a lot of time looking for a similar class laptop with non-chiclet and non-chocolate keyboard. Not a fan of chiclet feel or the aethetics. I am used to the feel of chiclet keyboards now so it isn't a dealbreaker, but ideally would love a proper keyboard.

 

IMO, a stiff, non-wobbling chiclet keyboard is better than a very flexible chocolate keyboard which wears out quickly. And when you look on the back-lit keys, a chiclet like the Z's definitely looks better than a regular keyboard - those look really ugly (e.g. the Alienware's)...

 

I don't care about how it looks. I actually use mine to type on and hence the way it feels and works is the key requirement.

I agree about the flex. But, there's nothing that says a regular keyboard has to be flexible. I know many people are used to the rubber backed keyboards on Acers, Dells, HPs, etc, etc. You might as well be typing on a waterbed. Try a Thinkpad keyboard. It might as well be backed by concrete. There is no flex whatsoever. It's an absolute joy to type on. I find on the Z's chiclet keyboard that I have far more typos then on the Thinkpad. Even just typing my password takes about 4 to 5 tries to get it right on the Z. Just one on the Thinkpad.

Radio Shack pioneered the chiclet keyboard on the TRS-80 color computer. They did it to save money since a real keyboard was too expensive. Even the Shack came to the conclusion that it was a mistake.

A chiclet keybaord is a good cost saving measure for a lowend laptop, but it's an absolute embarassment for a high end one. It's like buying a Ferrari with a fold up beach chair for the driver.

 

So 48 of 52 who voted plan to keep it, I guess the majority spoke.

 

Yea I'm a little surprised at it. I understand that the hardware on this thing is superb, but if they can't figure out how to use it then it's worthless to me. RMA'd.

 

it's you who couldn't figure out how to use it

 

i'll trade my S for your Z