Windows tax refund from Sony

Has anyone here managed to get a refund for Windows 7 from Sony? It has been done numerous times before with other notebook manufacturers.

 

I haven't heard of anyone trying... if you can do it, let me know!

 

I guess I don't follow.. what are we talking about here?

 

Every laptop you buy nowadays come with an OS license. However, some of us have our copy of OSes and so, we don't use the the OS that comes with it. So, we're discussing whether or not Sony will give us the money for the unused license.

 

Interesting. The MFR pays licensing for every COA (and actually pays for the COA sticker itself separately). Are the mfr's "refunding" the windows cost requiring you to ship the COA back? Also, are they forcing you to reflash the bios without the activation tables?

 

Actually, it's because of the Windows EULA, where you are told that if you don't accept the terms, to contact the company you purchased the computer from for a refund. Since you never accepted nor activated Windows, no return is usually required - that would just cost more (some manufacturers still demand it to prevent users from pursuing a refund).

The refund is due to the small handful of countries that still have consumer protection and anti-anti-competitive legislation, and where forced bundling is illegal. Much like you have the right to buy internet service without a router, or a cell phone without a contract, you have the right to buy a computer without one particular OS, especially when the manufacturer doesn't provide alternatives.

It wouldn't surprise me if Sony would be one of the OEMs that do NOT honour this -- I say this because there are no drivers whatsoever from Sony for other operating systems; even when these drivers have been produced by others and all Sony have to do is put them on their site.

Google "Windows Tax" for more information.

 

Thx arth1 for that information, repped.

 

It's good info, but not sure how it applies. Perhaps US is different.

The consumer protection laws may exist here or elsewhere, but what happens if I want to order a laptop without a screen, or without a CPU? By the "unbundling" logic, the MFR should be required to do so.

Offering systems with no OS is not an option per the Microsoft agreements (unless the MFR feels comfortable paying double the price for every Windows license). I am surprised they get away with that, but they do. Perhaps EU etc. has made them change their agreements in those markets due to the Antitrust oversight.

 

So I just call Sony and start complaining? I have two VAIOs with Vista that I never used and my Z with Windows 7 that I never used. I want a refund. I have MSDN for operating systems and software.

 

this is really interesting, I also never use the original licence

usually do a clean install

 

Well, it doesn't hurt to try I guess, although from what has been said here, it might be a pain to get Sony to refund you the licenses. If it works, report back!

 

Here's what Sony's Terms and Conditions say:

An here's what Windows 7's EULA says:

I'm not a lawyer nor a native English speaker, but it seems to me that a customer accepts MS's EULA the moment he/she purchases Sony's laptop. Is this correct?
When you boot Windows 7 on a newly purchased VAIO for the first time, do you get a dialog asking you whether you agree with the EULA?

 

^Yep.

10char.

 

yes but you don't have to agree to it. I wiped my brand new P with Vista right away. Never booted it, just reformatted and installed 7.

 

So it checks out with Microsoft. Here's Sony's return policy:

Do they mean their software (games) or any software (bundled OS)? If any, than we have a right to get the refund as long as we don't touch the bundled MS stuff, right?

 

^But the MFR already PAID for it. If you called sony and got them to refund it, great. But you are getting money from Sony. MS already got their money.

Lets not confuse licensing t/c's with the money flow

 

Read this site: Windows refund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Doesn't look like mfr's have procedures for any of this. Just more consumerist stuff. Read the stories, customers are spending hours and hours to get 80-200. Seems like a waste of time.

 

I know. It's just a matter of principle. We are forced to buy a MS product because they don't offer an alternative. I know we supposedly get the OS bundled for free, but we get a license with it and I think it's fair that we can return it - even if we don't get anything in return.
And I know they can't bundle GNU/Linux distros because there's a high chance that everything won't work right out of the box (e.g. switchable graphics). They should at least offer an option to purchase a laptop without any OS.

From Wikipedia:

 

^But your principle is flawed. When you call for your "refund", you are screwing the computer manufacturer, not Microsoft.

It's important to note that the Windows license does not change if an mfr were to use another O/S...i.e. Linux. The Windows license cost only increases if MFR's ship with no O/S at all. Just an FYI.

 

This is why some manufacturers deliver systems with FreeDOS. Dell, for example. Even when FreeDOS doesn't actually run on that system, you still get the CD, with the understanding that you will promptly toss it away.
These days, many new computers and motherboards also come with a mini-linux distribution that quick-loads as an "instant on" feature. Splashtop, for example. That probably also only serves to satisfy this requirement.

As for ComputerCowboy stating that he uses MSDN licenses to install OSes, he needs to re-read the MSDN terms. That you get keys for the OSes doesn't mean you can install them for any other use than what the MSDN license grants.

 

I have bizspark, they give you the software so you can develop stuff, which is what I do. It is not free, I am pretty sure that I am using MSDN correctly.

From MSDN

 

Bingo on the freedos. The instant-on os's from the motherboard guys is just a value ad. The MS rule only applies to fully configured machines.

 

As long as that is the ONLY thing you use it for.

Quoting the BizSpark agreement:

"One user may install and use copies of the Program Software to design, develop, test and demonstrate Startup’s programs."

Quoting the MSDN Licensing page:

"Many MSDN subscribers use a computer for mixed use—both design, development, testing, and demonstration of your programs (the use allowed under the MSDN subscription license) and some other use. Using the software in any other way, such as for doing email, playing games, or editing a document is another use and is not covered by the MSDN subscription license. When this happens, the underlying operating system must also be licensed normally by purchasing a regular copy of Windows such as the one that came with a new OEM PC."

 

I can't send an email but I can write code. That is ridiculous. Do they really expect people to write code only on a machine. That is 99% of what I do. But the other 1% could be argued as development related. Even my time on the forum here could be argued was for optimizing the computer for a better development environment. I think I am within the guidelines of the agreement. It's not like I am a pirate.

 

No, they expect you to buy the OS for mullti-purpose machines, and only use the MSDN provided OS keys for what they're licensed for.
You can still install and use the dev tools from MSDN on your multi-purpose laptop, but that has to be on top of a commercial licensed Windows.

Microsoft offers downloadable/installable OSes too, that aren't legally limited by a "dev/test/demo only" license. For small businesses, the "Open License" program works that way. You install what you need, and then pay Microsoft later, with a discount based on number of seats.

But TANSTAAFL, and MSDN isn't a legal way to get free operating systems - if you ever get a BSA audit, you'll learn that the hard way.

 

What is a BSA audit? I am really not worried about it. I am just one guy who writes some code to eat.

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread here.

BSA = Business Software Alliance.

They act on behalf of Microsoft, Symantec, Adobe, Autodesk and a bunch of other big players, and send out audit letters to around 5000 companies a year -- some chosen because of good old snitching, and some randomly. You cooperate with them (the alternative is worse) in doing a software audit, and generally pay a big chunk of money to get back into compliance. Trying to clean shop by buying software after you receive the letter won't do any good - Microsoft who is part of the alliance will catch that a machine was activated after the letter was received, and you will need to prove what it was running at the time you got the letter.

Once you've been through one of those audits, you take extra care that you count your licenses and don't use any software from those big guys outside the license terms. Like test/demo licenses for production use, or buying an upgrade but continuing to use the old product alongside the new, or letting people not having an MSDN license install MSDN software from someone who does.

 

Well, I am also tired of paying for things I'm not using. In last 2.5 years I purchased 4 laptops with preinstalled system that I wiped out right away. My school is giving me all MS products for free for personal use and eductional pursposes (MSDN AA) and my work is providing me with W7 Enterprise edition.

Yesterday I decided to give Sony and MS a call. MS support basically told me to go f.... myself and MS Live chat hang up on me. Then I called Sony. Customer service talked to a supervisor and they decided to take all my info, research it and will give me a call once the find out something.

Did anyone received the credit?

 

FYI, Sony accepted my request and offered me a credit of $50 for Windows 7 Home Premium that was preinstalled on my VPCSA290X laptop, which I couldn't refuse

I just received an email confirmation that refund will hit my Amex within 7-10 days.

It's doable and it took me only two phone calls!! Good Luck in getting your refunds!!!

 

^You screwed Sony and Microsoft got paid twice. Great job. /s

 

@beaups: I don't think he screwed Sony. If everyone requests their refund, maybe - just maybe - the option "select your OS" will include more than just various versions of Windows in the future. All this stuff about BSA audits, etc, would be totally meaningless if more companies used Ubuntu or similar (and free software).

If pressure is put on the manufacturers (and only financial pressure has any meaning to them), then they will start to look for alternatives to the MS monopoly.

And also, now that I hear this story about Sony, I am more willing to buy a laptop from them. I just canceled an order from Lenovo because they refused me a refund (after granting me one in '07).

 

Sorry to reopen an aging thread, but I'd like to share my experience:

The short answer I got is NO.

I bought a new Sony Vaio in the middle of last week at an online store (they had it $100 off the NewEgg price and free shipping). It came in a few hours ago.

I got on the horn with Sony before booting (just to make sure I didn't void any warranty or process). I talked alked to an OS tech who created a ticket and sent me over to Customer Relations (or equivalent).

After some minor kung fu, that guy told me that they cannot refund the Windows 7 license because it's bundled with the computer. After some more kung fu, he checked the Windows license agreement which said that if the computer vendor could not refund the license, then Microsoft should be contacted. This was about 30 minutes in to the skirmish.

Calling Microsoft, they said it's an OEM license and Sony needs to support it. That was about 10 more minutes.

Back to Sony's tech support and then customer relations again. Some medium level kung fu and the customer relations chick gives me a road block saying managers don't take calls and basically they don't 'support' refunds.

At this point it's over an hour, and not being angry or violent person, I feel that perusing his $50 or so is not really worth it any more.

I still have not powered the machine on and am thinking about calling MS back, but legally they probably can't do, or do not have to do much.


Other notes:
-Every one i talked to had an accent (no surprise).
-They kept feeding me BSoD logic: Example "We cannot refund an OS license that is bundled with the computer but if you bought it separately we would be able to".
-The last person basically confirmed that Sony doesn't offer any OS choice, even if you buy from them directly. (I thought maybe this was because I bought from a 3rd party)


And as for any philosophical/idealist/-ism criticisms, I don't care about Sony's or Microsoft's well being. I just think it's a right (if they exist) to be able to drink from the water fountain and not have to buy Coke or Pepsi.

 

It's not a water fountain. It's a Coke/Pepsi fountain. If you want a water fountain, get one from a vendor that is.

 

^This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever read.

 

I agree this is ridiculous. I think you have posted more in this thread than anyone else.

 

Cool story, thanks.

 

Ah, its one of those stories that even if you don't pay, you pay. You buy a phone with Android? $15 goes to Microsoft for patent licensing. Sucks having money going to Microsoft when I have no interest in any of their products.

But as others have pointing out, how much wasted time and effort is it worth?