Yet another Z vs. TT question...

I've never owned an ultraportable before - my current laptop is a 3-year-old P1 MXW3V (ie, a souped-up Asus) with a 1.86GHz Pentium M and a dedicated graphics card, and a 7200HD. It's over 5lbs and I'm tired of lugging it around, though.

Also, I've realized I really don't need that much laptop. I have a very powerful desktop system on which I do most of my resource-intensive work (mostly video editing/processing) - I use my laptop mostly for internet and email and documents, and sometimes video-watching. I do occasionally need to use Photoshop or InDesign when traveling, and I also sometimes do a bit of video file conversion or audio processing (like Audacity), but this is generally sporadic light work, not heavy-duty stuff (and I don't do any video editing on it). So I've decided to save my back and go the ultraportable route for the first time.

I'd thought I was set on the TT - with the SSD and most likely downgrading to XP - just because the incredible light weight is so appealing. Even the almost-.5 lb difference with the Z makes a difference for me. And I like the smaller footprint. But the more I think about it, the more concerned I've become about speed/performance, and how big a difference I'm going to notice compared to what I've been used to. I wouldn't be expecting the laptop to perform like my desktop, but still, I do need to power up Photoshop, etc., once in a while, and I want to be able to run them without the system grinding to a halt or always being frustrated. And I also tend to multitask - lots of windows open at once.

Can anyone help give me a sense of whether and how well the TT (either the 1.4 or 1.2 processors) would handle this type of work, and whether I'd be much happier with a Z? I've played with both at a Sony Style store, but all I was able to do was browse; there were no applications loaded, and the salespeople were useless. What I want is some sense of what these would feel like in "real life" use, especially compared with what I'm used to.

I'm also unsure about the SSD - I know it helps with start-up speed, and I've read that it really helped with speed on the TZ, but what about the TT and Z? The quietness, quick booting, and lightness appeal to me, but I can't seem to find any performance comparison of these machines with SSDs vs. conventional HDs (and also, I know that different makes of SSDs have different technologies that affect things like random-access speed - anyone know what the Sonys use?).

(I posted this question in the TT thread but decided it belonged better in its own post, because I'm also very curious about the Z.)

 

Photoshop is a CPU intensive program.. the better the CPU, the 'zippier' the progress! (sorry for the pun, photoshop users! )

In this regard, the Z will win hands down with its P9500 2.5ghz CPU.

Ofcourse, the more RAM and processes running do play some role, but thats upgradeable

 

jcat: I did reply to this thread last night, but it does not show up here. May be I pushed the wrong keys.

Anyway, in TT, I tried RawTherapee (a freeware for raw digital picture processing). Everything seems to work fast. I used a NEF (raw) file from my Nikon D80. Then I tried NikonNX which is notoriously slow on my single core 3 GHz desktop, the speed improvement is amazing on the TT. Then I tried Gimp (which is similar to photoshop), it is very fast as well, but slow for unsharp mask which took 30 seconds, only 15 seconds on my desktop. So, on the overall, it is really no problem with photo processing. Try unsharp mask on your desktop and see what time you get on photoshop. But unsharp mask is the only extreme that I find TT has slowed down.

Just saw your other post in TT thread. So, what time do you get on your current laptop and desktop for unsharp mask in photoshop? You can download Gimp and do it for comparison as well.

 

I do understand that Photoshop (and to a slightly lesser extent, InDesign), like any CPU-intensive software will perform better the faster the processor - I guess my question is how noticeable that difference will be. Assuming that I'm not going to be using the laptop to do the most resource-intensive image processing in Photoshop - let's say, for example, that I'll use it for photo touch-ups, or some simple graphics-type stuff - what I'm trying to get a sense of is how big will the difference between the Z and the TT in actual use (and whether TT can run that sort of software as a practical matter at all).

I found a recent thread on a similar issue (now closed), but that poster seemed to want his laptop for full-time, heavy-duty Photoshop, AutoCad, and other engineering use - in that situation I can see the TT wouldn't be a very good choice. But I won't be using PS on the laptop very often (and AutoCad never!), definitely not as my primary use for the laptop, so it's possible that for me the tradeoff for the lighter weight and smaller footprint could be worth it. But not if it's unbearably slow.

TS300, thanks again for that help. My comparison might not be accurate, because I'm using a jpeg, not a camera raw file. But in Photoshop CS3, on my quad-core 2.67GHz desktop, applying an unsharp mask to a 6M jpeg file is almost instantaneous - I can't even measure it in seconds. On my laptop (1.86GHz Pentium M), it takes about 3 seconds. Maybe Photoshop's unsharp masks work differently from Gimp's? Perhaps I'll try downloading Gimp for comparison. I'm glad to know, though, that in general you find image processing fast on the TT.

 

It could be due to the difference between Gimp and Photoshop, since your Pentium M is not much faster than TT. Also, I got 15 seconds on my 3 GHz desktop using GIMP. For a good comparison, it is easy to download GIMP. Unsharp mask is under filter tab once you open the jpeg. My timing is done on a jpeg in Gimp.

 

I went through a similar debate. Here's the thread I started:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=320075

I also have a powerful computer at home where I can do the heavy stuff. At the time I was debating the 007 version of the TT which had 64GB SSD, but you can't get that anymore. Configure the TT that you would get if you chose it, and configure the Z that you would get. What is the price difference? For me, it was $400. I would have paid $400 more for the SSD, but lost CPU and GPU speed. But your case, if you want SSD it will cost you at least $700 more to get the TT.

In the end, the size difference is pretty small. I played with them extensively in the Sony Style store, typing, looking at them, turning them upside down. I could barely notice the weight difference, and the TT was a little more difficult to type on. I ended up with the Z because you get so much more laptop for your buck. Much better CPU, more screen real estate, a dedicated GPU, and still in a very tiny package. I realized I made the right choice when I traveled last weekend and didn't have my desktop around. I was glad I had a more capable machine with me.

 

Technically Z is indeed a better machines, better cpu, better video. There is a thread here regarding the noise of the fan. Take a look at it. I do not know how wide spread the problem is. TT is absolutely quite, and cool running.

 

Fan noise is only an issue if you're anal about noise levels. I've got an ANTEC 900 fully loaded with about every fan I can possibly stick in there. I don't find that annoying at all. So to me, the Z is whisper quiet.

 

Thanks azureice. I did in fact read that thread (and BTW, one of the issues I'm struggling with is that I want to buy from Portable One, who I've dealt with in the past, but none of their TT configurations is what I want!).

The thing is, I know the Z is a more powerful, "better" machine - I have no doubt all my applications would run faster on it (or that it's almost certainly a better deal - more for the money). What I'm trying to figure out is how *much* faster - how much I'd notice the difference, given the way I plan to use the laptop, and whether I'd find the reduced speed of the TT really annoying.

Because if not, the lighter weight of the TT is probably worth it for me. I've played around with both machines extensively at the Sony Style store too. The TT is more difficult to type on, you're right, but I have smallish hands - I could easily get used to it. And while the weight difference is almost unnoticeable, I'm not big, and when I had someone put each of them in the same laptop bag and give them to me one at a time "blind" as an experiment, I was definitely able to tell which was the heavier, every time. It's not that the Z is heavy or that the difference is huge. But the weight issue is really important to me - I really want the lightest possible machine I can live with. That's why I'm not just going with the Z, which otherwise be an easy choice.

I've been poking around a bit, and it looks like the Core 2 Duo chips, even those with slower speeds like the SU9300 and 9400, are still "faster" according to the benchmarks than the higher-speed old Pentium Ms, like my 1.86GHz. So I'm wondering whether the TT wouldn't seem quite adequate to me, though I don't know how much weight to give those benchmarks.

And also, I still wish I had a better idea whether and to what extent the SSD would make a difference - no one seems to have experience with that.

This decision is driving me crazy - I'm practically ready to just give up and wait for the next generation of Vaios!

 

I feel that the bottlenecks in any given laptop are ususally the HDDs.

If you can live with the low capacity of SSDs currently, the TT is a better choice in "speed for price" because upgrading the Z to a SSD IIRC is going to be one expensive proposition. (...just to confirm, the TT's price already includes a SSD option right... whereas the Z does not?)

 

Have you calculated a concrete price difference yet? Total price - include tax, accessories and shipping. Once I did that, the decision was pretty much made for me.

I tried overloading the TT. There was only so much I could do in the store though. I opened about 4 IE browsers with several tabs in each, got Word open and such. There was a little lag with it, but not horrible. Personally, I'll end up with lots of crap open. Visual Studio even. I rarely shut my laptop down, just sleep and hibernate, so things tend to accumulate. Not sure how much of an issue it is for you.

I can't say much regarding the SSD since I've never used it, but I will say that the 250GB HD I have works pretty well - way better than my SZ's 80GB PATA. The system boots up in under a minute for me, and once I'm at the desktop I'm good. This is after uninstalling crapware.

 

No. To get SSD on the TT you have to pay a minimum of $2700, and that's for the 64GB.

 

Oh...

Well in that case, go for the Z, with a 7200 RPM drive.

IIRC the new Z series 600 refreshes are out soon, and those seem to have standard 7200 RPM drives for a lower cost than current 500 series units?

Or you can just CTO your own, there should be quite a few deals on the Z. You may not mind the TT's smaller KB size, but the extra room on the Z's screen is totally worth the additional weight IMO.

 

Do you mean by this that you think the SSD does in fact help with this, that it's faster? I have a 7200rpm drive in my current laptop, and it has never impressed me with its speediness. I'd be willing to pay the premium for the SSD, even on the Z, if I thought it would make a real difference and wouldn't have any drawbacks. Just the quicker boot-up time is so appealing...

 

I have never used anything by 5400 RPM drives in my notebooks... but I do have a 7200 RPM in my desktop... however, comparing them when they're two different beasts are not exactly ideal.

There are many users of SSDs who will attest to SSD's superior startup/load times, but you've gotta get a good brand of SSD, which I'm sure is in a topic somewhere in this forum. If you are ALL FOR SPEED and price isn't an issue... SSD is the way to go. Otherwise, if you're not happy with 7200 RPM HDDs, getting either the TT or the Z won't make much difference, and you'll be disappointed with both IMO.

If you're feeling gutsy, buy a CTO'ed Z with the cheapest HDD... and buy a recommended SSD from a parts retailer and install yourself for the best performance. You'll have to ask other forum members for their knowledge regarding the best SSDs on the market and which SSDs Sony installs.