Z1 + ViDock + GTX 570 > FTW (the Z2/PMD killer)

It seems to me if you were going to run eight monitors it might be better to do like eight 40" HDTV, so you could put them all up on a wall and see all of them at once. The 100DPI on the 30" WQXGA monitors limits the viewing distance. When I had a single 40" HDTV I could sit about eight feet away and read the smallest text.

I think four 30" WQXGA monitors in a 2x2 pattern would be about the most you could actually use.

 

Sorry if this was asked already, and for sort of bumping an older thread, but would this be possible on the Z2?

I mean if you did this on the Z2, gaming and other 3D applications wouldnt bottleneck as badly because of the more powerful CPU right? (Assuming the last-gen i7 dual core is bottlenecking that desktop class 570)

 

See this thread http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/600942-vidock-4g-light-peak-z21-possible.html

 

So you couldnt just use the same exact dock? Im not good with ports and wires and ect. I know only the basics like whats video out and ect

 

Can I install any Pci-ex graphic cards(Nvidia and ATI) to run my Z1?
(I think it can but asking for sure).

And which model your recommend? ( I read this thread someone used gt570 and there is problem, Vidock burned.)

Thank you

 

The Z2 doesn't have an ExpressCard slot, so the current ViDock won't work with it. There is no third party solution for the Z2 at this time

Yea you can use whatever you want within the power requirements. The nVidia cards are better IMHO because of the PCIe compression in the drivers. ATI doesn't do that. The GTX570 is questionable, I haven't had a problem with it, but it is right on the edge of the power requirement. It is overkill anyway a GTX460 will perform just about as well due to the limited bus bandwidth.

Honestly I don't even really use my ViDock anymore since I got the Z to drive my WQXGA display all by itself. The only reason I got the ViDock was to drive a high res display. The only reason I use the ViDock now is if I want to watch a movie on my DELL U3011, the ViDock drives the display at its full refresh rate so it is better than my 35hz driver hack. For normal desktop stuff 35Hz doesn't bother me, I don't even notice, the panel still operates @ 60Hz but the data is sent at 35Hz.

you can do the hack for high res on the Z1 http://forum.notebookreview.com/son...k-works-but-i-need-some-help.html#post7879772
you can also do it on the Z2 http://forum.notebookreview.com/sony/602724-success-2560x1440-support-new-vpc-z2-dell-u2711.html

 

Thank you.
ComputerCowboy.

I order vidock for gaming is the reason so I will get Nvidia.
You mean that because of bandwith limited the performace of Gtx460 and Gtx570 are not different via Vidock?

 

They are not "no different" but the difference is negligible. There is also the DIY eGPU option, you can do more with that and cheaper. I picked the ViDock because it was easy and I needed it right away.

you should have a good read on this thread also
http://forum.notebookreview.com/gam.../418851-diy-egpu-experiences.html#post5324240

 

I already ordered Vidock since last week. They just shipped Vidock to me today.
I may choose GTX560.

Thanks to ComputerCowboy.

 

The 560 looks like a better choice, probably won't push the limits on the power requirement, that is assuming you got the ViDock4+

 

Yep. I got Vidock4+.

 

Interesting to hear that Village Tronic still have the resources to sell and ship new ViDocks, but no resources to respond to support issues. e.g. my Vidock4+ burned out after about 8 day's use with a GTX 570. Maybe they will respond to me one day... been waiting for over 3 weeks now

Up and running now with the Z1 running a DIY ViDock, ATI 5870 HD Eyefinity 6 driving 3 x U3011s which works great. Can cold boot and reboot with no issues. The DIY is not as neat and tidy as the the ViDock4+ was before that went up in smoke, but the DIY setup works a treat.

 

CYclone5. I haven't read about detail of your problem much.

For me reponse from villagetronic quit well.

You already contacted them via there channel(ticket or somethings)?
If after sale service is not well as you said. That's bad news because I don't stay in US.

If anyone already run game via Vidock pls share your experiences.

ATI HD 5870 is better than GTX560 for gaming via Vidock?

 

GTX560Ti is better for gaming/FHD video playback due to pci-e compression but limited to driving 2 LCDs.

HD5870 is better for multiple LCD support but at lower performance. HD5870 Eyefinity 6 Edition allowing 6 2560x1600 LCDs to be attached as shown in the link.

 

Let's me ask some questions.
GTX460 and GTX560Ti are much different for gaming with vaio Z+Vidock?
Now I'm going to get that one but I have read some chart here score 460 and 560 not much different. May be it just a scores and I can feel much different while gaming ?

 

560Ti is faster, but not more than 5-10%. You don't notice 2-3 FPS difference in real life. 560's are easier to get hold off, since they are the successor series. You can get 460's cheap at ebay, they are capable to run all new games on 1080p mid-high details.

 

I have received Vidock already.
Now I wanna test with my pc vga card,HD4850, first.
Anybody have instruction for vaioz both ATI and Nvidia. Vidock support site don't help that much.
Thank you.

 

I have ATI drivers for a HD5870, in addition to the Nvidia and Intel drivers running fine on my z1. No problems, just install them.

 

Cylcone5, you mean I just connect Vidock to my Z1 and install ATI driver and That's it?
Could you please tell me how to install vidock to my z1.
I quiet disappoint with Vidock after sale service. I post in my ticket to request instruction for Ati and Nvidia since Thursday no feedback since then.
What should I do?

 

There is a lot of info in the first post of this thread...

make sure you read that and set up the jumpers

Then you just plug it in and install the graphics card drivers, yes that is it.

 

Hey Cyclone, that's an amazing set up you've got there. I would love to have 2 u3011, I just cant imagine 3.

I recently went with a DIY vidock set up myself, and was really tempted to get an ATI card so that I could run 3 external monitors. However, I play the occasional 3d game so I was concerned about the bandwith limitations that the vidock suffers, so I went with an Nvidia 560ti, so that I could take advantage of the Optimus configuration that allows better 3d performance. But, I can only run 2 external displays. However, seeing that you are able to run those 3 displays successfully without Optimus has me questioning that decision.

How well does it run? Any lag, say when you have an HD movie up in one screen, and other programs in the other two monitors? Do you game at all on your setup (even with one monitor), if so how well does it work? Ever try eyefinity gaming? I'm really curious how well it works.

My ideal setup is 3 1080p monitors running off a vidock, just for usual webbrowsing/ wordprocessing/ work etc. and then if I ever want to run a game just disabling the other 2 monitors.

 

^ you know games don't really work all that well with nVidia with the ViDock anyway right?

Hell I can't even play 3D Blu-ray through the ViDock, I need to use the built in 330M instead. The ViDock is great for running lots of monitors, but the bandwidth for 3D or games just isn't there.
Now that I figured out how to run my U3011 straight off the Z1 I don't even use the ViDock anymore, it just sits there gathering dust.

 

Why do you think that is? Is the PCI Express link the bottleneck?

 

yea i am pretty sure thats it

 

Yeah, it definitely doesn't come close to using the same graphics card with a semi-decent desktop setup. But, I still see a huge performance gain over using the 330m to play. To be honest only game I ever really play is Starcraft 2, which is not that intensive of a game. With the 330m alone I couldn't get near maxing out the settings without extreme lag, with the 560ti I can play maxed easily.

The only other game I have really messed around with is modded GTA4 with all the enhanced graphics mods you may have seen online (i.e.: iCEnhancer 1.25 - ENB Mod - Final version - YouTube) I can play these fine with my vidock setup, which I'm pretty sure would be impossible with the onboard graphics.

 

Thanks to ComputerCowboy.

I will try.

 

Just tried running 2 x HD movies simultaneously full screen on 2 monitors and they ran smoothly and could work with other programs no probs at all on the remaining monitor. Did try running 3 x HD movies, which didn't work as well, but suspect that was more to do with the fact that the movie files were on a network storage being accessed over a wireless network, so not a great test. Windows experience index shows 7.6 scores for both graphics and gaming graphics, where I was getting 7.9s when using a GTX570. Not a big deal for me. I've never installed a game on my lappy, but tempted to buy F1 2010 to see what its like with WQXGA x 3

 

Thanks for this! You just sold me, I'm set on buying one, I just think I need to get some new monitors first. Really impressive that you can watch 2 movies with those resolutions, I would have thought that that would have been too much for the Pci-e slot connection.

 

The movies are regular HD, ie. 1080p. The graphics adapter is merely scaling them to fit the higher resolution of the monitors. Now if the video was actually encoded at the higher resolution, like
Ultra High Definition Television - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Digital cinema - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
then we would be suitably impressed.

 

Yeah, I see what you mean about the resolution. The reason for my impression though is that running a videocard through a pci-express card slot severely limits its bandwidth. Therefore it can run nowhere the speeds it could in a desktop mobo in the normal x16 slot. I'm sure his card could run 2 or 3 "ultra resolution" videos if it were in a normal desktop setup

 

Doesn't seem to want to output 3D Blu-ray via 3D Vision with my GTX 570. It gets all choppy. Note 3D Vision/3D Blu-ray work perfectly with the 330M. Why would 3D Blu-ray not work, you'd think that would just be the same bandwidth as two 2D HD movies.

@cyclone
A question about these 1080P movies you played simultaneously... were they high bitrate h.264? like a direct rip off a Blu-ray? Or were they some transcoded more compressed files? I do all my own Blu-ray rips, a quality film is 25Mbps, just because something is 1080P doesn't mean that it is a high bitrate.

 

dunno, I didn't rip them but I was told they were h264 , not a movie buff myself. Does this help?

 

Yes, that explains it, that files is about a third of the bit-rate of a normal Blu-ray

If you had normal 25Mbps files I doubt you could play two at once. Your file has a video bit-rate of 7Mbps. Your file, where ever you got it from, has been trans-coded to reduce the size. Most of my rips are 20 or 30GB+ MKV files

When I rip a 3D Blu-ray I make an ISO image. Either way I sacrifice no quality when I store my movies.

 

Help

I try following this instruction but I can't

Dear Jeff,

A friend with a Sony Notebook has put together this instructions on how to configure a Sony Notebook to work with ViDock. This is what we give out in technical support if a customer asks how to get his Sony to work. Please have a look:
a) Maybe thee is something new in there for you to learn
b) Is there something you suggest to update or improve? These instructions have been written about half year ago:


We have constructed a manual for the Sony Vaio Z series. The reason the Sony Vaio is not able to work correctly out of the box is because it already has built in hybrid graphics. This limits the ViDock from working correctly. The following steps will get your laptop and ViDock working properly.

1. Before you start, please make sure you have administrative privileges on the laptop. Also you may create a full system backup with an application like Acronis True Image Home and such.
2. Omitted step due to your setup.

3. Uninstall the existing NVidia drivers from the Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs (both NVidia and Intel drivers will be removed). This step is not necessary, but recommended.

4. Download and install the latest Intel HD drivers from here: http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Sear...01&FamilyId=39, restart the laptop. Make sure the laptop boots in its native resolution (1920x1080 or 1600x900), it means the Intel driver has been installed correctly.

5. Download the NVidia Optimus drivers: http://download.laptopvideo2go.com/n...12_win7x64.exe and extract the package to a temporary folder. You may install standard NVidia drivers, but it does not make much sense because the native hybrid video drivers are significantly faster than non-Optimus ones.

6. Download the Nautis’ INF files: http://www.nautisiandesigns.com/driv...64bit_INFs.zip and extract the 64bit NVUOPTI.INF file to the same temporary folder where driver is (no subfolders!). This will enable Optimus feature in the 259.12 Toshiba’s drivers for VAIO.

7. Download the latest PhysX driver from here: NVIDIA DRIVERS 9.10.0513

8. Download the latest “DIY Vidock Setup 1.x”: http://forum.notebookreview.com/gami...iences-63.html (scroll down the page little bit to find the link). I don’t post the final links to the applications here because the applications and drivers can be updated and changed in the future.

9. Download and install the ImDisk virtual disk software: Tools and utilities for Windows.

10. Launch the DIY Vidock Setup executable; it will extract the package content to c:\DIYVDOCK folder. Now make sure you have BCDEDIT application available from your default application path. If not – you will need to copy it from c:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-b..iondata-cmdlinetool_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7600.16385_none_e41fee6cbedca6f2\bcdedit.exe to c:\windows\system32. Run the setup-disk-image.bat file from the folder; it will create a DIY Vidock record in the Windows boot configuration.

11. Plug the Vidock into the working laptop. Windows will detect the external video card, but it will not be able to install the correct driver, so it will just show a generic “VGA Display Adapter” device. Please note: the VAIO Z laptop won’t start if the Vidock plugged in. But Villagetronic guys have created a workaround – they have added jumpers that allow delaying the video card initialization*.

12. Run the setup.exe file from the NVidia drivers’ folder; make sure it shows "Display driver” in the list of applications to install. If it doesn’t – most likely you have forgotten to put the nviopti.inf file in the driver’s folder, or have extracted it with a subfolder.

13. If you get an error during setup – you still can install the driver from the Device Manager. Open the Windows Device Manager, then go to Display Adapters, and right click on the Standard VGA Display Adapter; select Update Driver Software -> Browse my computer for driver software -> Let me pick from a list… -> Have Disk… and select nvupti.inf file from the drivers folder.

14. Now install the PhysX driver, unplug the Vidock, and restart the laptop.

15. Select DIY Vidock Setup 1.x from the boot menu, select the menu based setup (second item), select “!Edit startup.bat”, add the following string in the All profiles section (before call pci.bat):
call iport dedicated off
and save the startup.bat file. The line we’ve just added turns the integrated NVidia GT 330M video card off to make Optimus configuration possible.

16. Select Using startup.bat, then Chainload w7|orig from the main menu. Next time you will not have to do all these procedures. Just Select DIY Vidock Setup -> Automated startup via startup.bat (auto select on timeout) -> Windows 7 (auto select on timeout).

17. Now you have 2 choices, depending on the video card type you’re going to use with the Vidock. Some video cards can be plugged in to the laptop a normal way, some with a small trick. I’ve tried GTS 450, GTX 285 and couple of GTX 460. The easiest way works with GTX 285 and GTS 450 – just plug the video card and start enjoying it. Unfortunately, this does not work with GTX 460. The laptop and my external monitor both show the blank screen in case if I plug the GTX 460 into the working laptop. So, as soon as the OS has been loaded, put the laptop into the sleep mode, plug in the video card, and wake up the laptop – it will activate the external video card and you should not see the blank screen. Please note if you hibernate your laptop and turn it on again, the internal NVidia video card will be powered on (even if it’s disabled in the Device Manager), and the Optimus feature will be deactivated.

18. To make sure the Optimus mode is enabled in your configuration – open the NVidia control panel, go to “View” menu item and see if the “Add “Run with graphic processor” to Context Menu” item is visible and enabled.

19. Now you may disable the laptop’s display and play COD, NFS, etc... The Optimus configuration also allows you to use the Vidock without an external display (just like a video accelerator), but in this case the NVidia drivers will show a watermark when the 3d engine is working.

I can't install otimus259.13_win7x64
Please suggest me.
Thank you.

 

You don't need to do all of that unless you are trying to run your internal display off your eGPU.

If you just want to run your eGPU download the latest nVidia drivers and install them, that is it.

 

Pretty much. Also there are newer drivers and infs and things on the eGPU thread if you are looking at going the optimus route. There are some extremely knowledgeable people there who will be more than willing to help. If not do what CompCowboy said.. its probably the easiest way to start out anyways.

Also Vilagetronic... *GLARES*

 

yea Village kind of sucks

I am not pleased at all to find out how they have treated other customers. I haven't even been using my ViDock since I figured out how to get the U3011 going without it, since Cyclone's dock caught fire I am not too keen on leaving it unattended. Maybe if I decide to get another U3011 I'll get that Matrox card that does 4x WQXGA.

 

Guys, what do you think about using heaviest videocards with ViDock? I've recently got ViDock 4 Plus and now I'm choosing the best solution. What if I get AMD Radeon 9900 + external AC adapter and connect it to 6900 directly. Should such configuration work?

Thanks in advance.

 

You probably mean a 6990. ATI cards in general perform worse compared to NVidias with the Z. The Z gives Optimus capability so a GTX560Ti would perform 3x faster than the high end 6990.

Please tell us what you want to achieve with the setup and we tell you the best card.

 

Exactly, my mistake.

I thought GTX 560 Ti is "middle-class" card...

I need external video card only for one thing - playing Battlefield 2: Bad Company. Also Battlefield 3 is coming in October-11. Resolution is no more than 1920 x 1080. So, I am expecting to get decent FPS with anti-aliasing and other stuff.
I am not familiar in videocards on the market so I am just looking at top models of nVidia and AMD. If you can tell me what is the most powerful solution I'd really appreciate this!

 

Thanks, that helps.

Given that the Z runs an external GPU through the ExpressCard interface which is a x1 PCIe lane at 2.5Gb/s, there are certain bandwidth limitations. The expresscard interface is the actual bottleneck in the ViDock implementation so actual gaming performance strongly depends on this.

Tests show that high end cards do not perform noticeably better than slower and cheaper cards that are already fast enough to satisfy the full bandwidth of the PCIe link.

Different VPC-Z1 implementations can be found in the performance table of the eGPU thread: http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/418851-diy-egpu-experiences.html

I have built a GTX460, a GTX560Ti and a GTX580 setup and they all perform approx. the same (as you can see in the performance table). A 500$ GTX580 hits just 1fps more in games compared to a 220$ GTX560Ti. A GTX460 is just a few fps behind in DX10 games, in DX9, they perform almost the same.

The best bang-per-buck you get with a GTX560Ti, that does not even need an additional PSU if you got the ViDock4+. Your Z won't perform noticeably faster with higher end NVidias, ATI cards will perform poor since they lack data compression over PCIe 1x which significantly boosts NVidias.

What you else have to take care of:

- Install the BIOS hack for the Z1 - this gives you the option to select static VGA mode. This switch in the advanced menu in BIOS disengages the buggy hybrid graphics system of the Z1. Run in STAMINA mode while docked to the ViDock (this only enables the integrated INTEL GPU, switches off the GT330M) so you get Optimus compression activated which gives you full speed.

- Game on an external monitor connected to the ViDock. Running on the internal screen cuts performance in half because it needs more PCIe bandwidth

 

Very useful and insightful post, pyr0. Repped. Oops! Got to rep someone else first.

 

Thanks a lot, pyr0! I will stick to your recommendations and buy GTX560Ti.

What about hybrid mode? Will it still be possible to switch between Intel and nVidia 330M videocards without rebooting? I am playing games at home while switching cards on-the-run is a bit essential for me. As far as I know Villagetronic guys wrote another manual for Z-series which doesn't include BIOS hack.

 

Sure, you can also keep hybrid mode. But you need workarounds which all bring downsides to your setup. I am not sure how good this all works since you need the hybrid (nvidia/intel combination) AND the desktop GPU (ViDock) driver installed side by side. I doubt it works very well. You can also use Setup1.x to deactivate the GT330M but then again, you lose the hybrid switching until you reboot. See also kturnbull's experience here.

You can install a mixed Intel HD/GT330M/desktop Fermi Optimus package tho - this requires just a few lines changed in the Verde driver inf. But here you don't have HDMI support on your Z and the GT330M eats your battery even when you don't use it. See yuuma's guide on this here.

Conclusion:
You asked me for the BEST performing setup and the only answer is - with no doubt - a BIOS-hacked Z1 running native, latest drivers. Does not hurt that much to do a quick reboot if you need the GT330 on the go.

 

I'll take one for the team and you can rep me.

 

Has anyone tried the BIOS hack with hybrid drivers? Wonder how the ViDock runs with those?

Also, has anyone played around with hardware profiles? Just throwing out ideas here.

LOL beaups. Good idea.

 

I know nando meantioned to me about not being able to use the 330M as a dedicated PhysX processor with Z1 + eGPU setup. Said it would be great to help figure that out. Assuming all three GPUs are present and seen by windows it shouldnt be impossible to do. Maybe he was talking about iGPU + dGPU + eGPU with Optimus. I forget the context, sorry.

Really need to get me one of these eGPUs now that I have a Z1.

 

Thanks...yet again, Pyro, for the egpu-z1 info.

I don't know why I am reluctant to do the bios hack, maybe because i am that much of a scared newb and/or wait & see what else Nautis conjures up for the Z1 but if I want best egpu performance, than its the way to go.

 

Update: After about 4 or 5 weeks wait I have got a response from Village. ________________
A customer support staff member has replied to your support request, #329483 with the following response:

Dear Peter,

Thanks for your picture. Can you ship the ViDock with power supply to this address:
VillageTronic,YinZhi
XiaoMao Wei
No.19,Xintai,street,
Lijiang Garden,
Dashi Panyu,
Guangzhou,511431
P.R.China
Phone:+86.20.39981362

We will try to repair it and let you know the result and ship back. Thank you very much. If you have any problem, please let us know.

Best Regards,
Michael
___________________________________________________

 

Have you considered asking for a new board? Surely it is relatively straightforward to swap out. The cost to send tracked items to China are quite high in Australia.

Or perhaps ask for a refund since:

(1) a the 225W a VD4+ supplies cannot drive a GTX570 contrary to what you were told prior to purchase.

(2) it cannot transmit pci-e 2.0 (expresscard 2.0) contrary to the their advertising. While not an issue with a Z1, it would mean lowered performance if you were to attach it to a Series-6 chipset system like a Lenovo X220 or Toshiba R830, both with pci-e 2.0 compliant expresscard slots with double the bandwidth.