Z1 owners, what is your next laptop?

In your specific case, given the above post, I find your posting history on this subject to be even more a) inexplicable or b) revelatory depending on whether I'm being tactful or not.

Being a Z1 fan, I partially replaced my Z's from last year, because due to the major changes, I had my major doubts and wanted to know if they would actually work out.

I'm honest about my approach to this stuff to a fault. If I have a strong opinion on something, I will have experience with it by having owned it. I will not go on and on and on about why something sucks when I have not had any time with it.

 

I think the keyboard could be improved if plastic with a lightly textured surface was used for the keys. As a bonus, a slight concave shape to each key would help.

 

Nah. Needs more travel, period. Those are detail adjustments. I'm sure if you used this thing 100% of the time you will become accustomed to it, but then - it's a *very* distinct experience from any other keyboard, and not in a positive way. As I said, I don't think the keyboard affects your speed or accuracy at all, but it's just not that great to use along side other conventional and scissor keyboards due to the fact that you go from key break to full (fairly hard) stop in a very short time.

 

^Of course it needs more travel. The texture and concave keys are just simple steps that I think could improve the keyboard without a redesign. I'm guessing that key travel was engineered to the closest tolerance possible consistent with the new design.

 

We do agree on one thing: you are "honest" to a fault. Methinks you take yourself a bit too seriously too How about we keep our opinions about other members to ourselves from now on. Deal?

Btw, I borrowed a colleague's Z2 over the weekend. That's when I decided not to get one. Tried to love the thing, truly. Do love the boot time and battery life, just not enough to live with the keyboard, touchpad, 2 USB ports, no ExpressCard slot (so no e-gpu, sound card, or any of several additional fast dataports and expansion options), no memory or storage expansion, no in-board optical drive option, no internal gpu, everything about the PMD (even with new drivers), If I was a power user, I imagine I might be willing to sacrifice some of those for more raw processing power than I get from the Arrandale Core i5 (at 490 mb/s my SATAII SSDs are not exactly holding me back!). All I need is a fast, light computer with a great screen and keyboard, incredible versatility and extremely high reliability.

So we're good now? Great.

 

I need to have an ODD with me pretty often. I looked for an external one for my girlfriend's 11' MacAir. 270gr the lightest I found. Add this to the Z2 weight and we reach my Z1's total weight. So no gain, plus different components.
I would have liked a bluray burner, my current Z1 doesn't have one and an external one would be even bulkier.
Also I like to have my discrete graphics card with me when I travel for 2-3 weeks, in my laptop, instead of carrying with me an additional charger and the PMD.
And if I need to get the autonomy of the Z2 I could get a 2nd large battery.

So, I agree with lovelaptops and totally disagree with the attitude of Vogelbung. My next laptop will be a better configured Z1, or the Z3 if Sony makes a better concept next time. Period.
By the way if anybody wants to sell his/her US or French Z1, please let me know.

 

Agree. It's the problem with the "it can never be too thin" mantra of the MBA, "ultrabook," and I guess the Z2 as well.

 

The keyboard is a compromise, no question. On the other hand, it's not too bad a one. Sure, I would like more keyboard travel, but I think the existing keyboard design could be improved. In the end, even in its current state, it's not so bad, it just takes getting used to and could be better.

 

I'll prob buy the Z2.

It is not the ideal but it is better than anything else on the market.

My only other option would be an i5 MBA + a iMac and use Apple's new cloud setup.

 

I really really hope Sony recycles the Z1's design and feature set. The Z2 is possibly taking things a little too far. It could stay as a seperate line, of course, but we need something more Z1-like, even if that means it'll be a little less thin than the Z2.

I got the Z1 (after the Z2 was out) because I wanted a laptop with a GPU actually built into it. I'm constantly moving (home/dorm room/school/friends/train/...) and just want to be able to play the occasional game when I have some spare time, be that at school, at home, at my dorm room, when I'm on the train, ... I don't want to have to take the PMD with me, the added weight completely defeats the point of the lighter Z2 for me personally.

If they'd just take the Z1, make it just a little bit thinner, modernize the design slightly, remove the DVD/BR drive, beef the specs up a little bit (Ivy Bridge and good nVidia graphics, preferable Optimus but still with a switch, just in case) they have a winner on their hands in my opinion.

 

I had these qualms as well, but I discovered that the HD3000 would be in practice fairly competitive with the 330M GT - slower of course, but not to a huge level. The fact that I'd have that full-time when mobile was in fact more useful than having to switch between the GMA and the 330M. The Z's IGP driver appears still to be slightly b0rked, but it still compares not horribly with the 330M for my own uses.

 

Okay, I have to admit, that might be possible.

What HUGELY annoys me about the Intel graphics in my Z1 is that the drivers are so outdated it can't even play back YouTube without pixelating everything (it just stretches without upscaling).

 

Yeah, I don't game but I do OpenGL visualisations which can get fairly complex. The completely b0rked initial driver on the Z2 (basically, no OpenGL support worth a damn for the Intel) had me quite worried for a couple of months - and it's obviously a big reason why I kept the Z13's still in reserve and debated against buying more Z2's, because nothing I had visualisation-wise would work on the Z2 when undocked.

Thanks to the recent driver refresh that is not the case now, and the first thing I did when the drivers became available was to try the same thing on the Z13 and Z2. The Z2 is, as I said, slower but it's usable. So given the rest of the attributes I'm ready to call it a day with the Z13's.

But the still-not-optimal nature of the Intel drivers? Well - this is Sony, so we don't necessarily know when it will be sorted out. At least it's not Apple - where driver quality varies even more wildly across both OS X and Windows, and yet is still fixed about as often as Sony's are(nt).

 

Just to chime in, I'll give my 2c on this.

My Z12 (i5, Ext Battery, 8Gb RAM, 128 SSD) is a year old. I plan on keeping it for at least another 2 years (budget doesn't really allow for more, and the PC will still be a beast 2 years from now).

I saw my next PC more as a Portege 750 or X200 type-deal. I see integrated graphics as one of the areas Intel is focusing a lot on, having kicked Nvidia out of the deal and all, therefore I beleive that by the time I am ready to replace my Z12, integrated graphics will have come to the point of being widely enough for the road.

Also, I can't beleive noone mentionned Lightpeak/Thunderbolt: we are soon going to see a ubiquitous interface that can deliver the bandwidth and response time for standardized and switchable external graphics platforms.

The timeframe for my next PC is longer than that discussed here, but my next PC, while it doesn't exist, has the following specs:

-Windows 8 SP1
-Intel Quad-Core Low Voltage 22nm CPU
-Intel Integrated 22nm GPU (equivalent to GT560M or something)
-Lightpeak interface w/ high end SWITCHABLE external graphics, maybe in some dock form
-16Gb DDR3 (DDR4?) for VM purposes
-13" 1080p or 2560*1680 Display (OLED? why not...)
-Z1 Keyboard
-Software Graphics switching, and switching solution runs aside unmodded standard drivers.

Just my 2c

 

Hmm. I don't get that with mine. Which drivers are you using?

 

I'm waiting for the Z3. I have a Z13 and just acquired a MBA. If the Z3 catches my attention, I will trade up my Z13 to a Z3.

 

Funny, the OP asked what Z1 or ex-Z1 owners have moved onto because he needs a laptop now, and yet everyone jumped in and say they are so happy about their Z1 and can hold out with their Z1...

Vogelbung actually is sharing how he transits to Z2, while lovelaptops was not helping at all -- well, now that I mentioned it, he probably would go back and edit his post and say they he recommends a refurb. Z1 If OP doesn't mind refurb., it is a viable choice.

TBH, this kind of thread is really common when Sony replaces its flagship. I've seen it when Sony first introduced VGN-S, then VGN-S switch from Radeon 9700 to nVidia Go 6200, VGN-SZ, VGN-Z, VPC-Z1 and now VPC-Z2. And you know what? no matter how innovative or how bad the immediately next iteration is, half to majority of the folks stayed with the old one -- despite all their flaws, they are still way ahead than the competition (in an overall sense) that let us really enjoy them and also have few reasons to upgrade, especially given how much we had spent to get them in the first place.

I got the first VGN-S and it stayed strong and true for 4 years (and really can keep going) till I got the VGN-Z, which also stayed strong and true for 3 years till the hinge broke. If I could, I would have stayed with VGN-Z, but I have to get a new one to get my mobility back. I picked Z2 over Z1 because:

1. I know I really don't use the GPU or ODD as often as I used to, especially on the go.

2. Very few brand-new Z1 available, and refurb. ones although super cheap in Sony Outlet, I really don't know how the SSDs were stressed by the previous owner -- I can get extended warranty, but I hate the downtime when getting things repaired. I prefer getting a clean slate and if I am to get two X18M on top of the Z1, the price gets much closer to Z2.

3. I have used old Sony VAIOs before so I know I can easily adjust to things like short keystroke. And I got my right FN key back.

4. Good deal on clearance Z2 in Sony Outlet

On an actually-relevant-to-OP's-question note, I bought my wife a SA in August and SA was definitely in the consideration before I went with Z2. Personally, I just can't stand with SA's screen's (lack of) vertical viewing angle. And with the exhaust right on the hinge, every time I adjust the screen to get good viewing angle I just worry that I would block the airflow unintentionally. Now, my wife had no problem and she loved her SA, so it may not be as big of deal for others.

Anyway, Z1 is great, and I perfectly understand Z1 owners want to hold on to it -- I would as well. But, if your Z1 does break today or did break recently, what would or did you choose as replacement?

 

Well, you're almost right. I don't need to edit my posts though, becuase I clearly state in several of them that my next computer will be another Z1, either a new one (there remain quite a few in the market if you know where to look; I bought 2 in the past week), a refurb, or a lightly used one from a reputable source with return/refund privileges. That's what I would do; I believe that was what the OP asked us to speak to. I don't think people who make other choices are stupid, hypocritical, concealing their inability to afford something better, etc.

I've recently said something else, but this ^ post suggests it bears repeating:

People need to stop treating this as a contest for "who gets it and who doesn't" and, most of all, stop the ad hominem attacks on people with whom they disagree! I mean, jeesh, we're talking about computers here, not politics or religion!

I know that we are only known by pseudonyms in this forum, but we interact with each other daily and actually have relationships of mutual support (and many of us have come to know each other privately as well) and this bickering and judging has no place here. It not only poisons the well, it takes the fun out of it. And though I have taken several personal "hits" here lately, I have to admit that, by responding in kind I'm as guilty as the person who instigated.

In most Z threads the only insults are either self-deprecating ones or poking good natured fun at others, who know when we are kidding them. Passionate advocacy of what you believe in - even if it is a relatively vacuous topic of which $3,000 laptop you prefer - is great, but I really wish we could just evaluate computers, not members who express and explain their personal preferences.

End of preaching. Amen.

 

Never mind.

 

Is the general consensus that Sony do away with the idea a dock for the next Z?

Its the only thing that is keeping me away from purchasing a Z2. In an era of portability and having everything at your fingertips, I never understood Sony's decision to do this.

On the flip side, if the SA had the Z's display, id own that one as well.

the Z1 was perfection that should have merely been updated with better specs.

 

There is no basis for a consensus or any informed judgement on the issue. My guess is that the PMD will stay through an IB Z23. After that, ODDs andeGPUs for the Z may be done away with altogether. Even that, however, is just a guess.

I am glad that the Z2 was improved by adding the PMD and subtracting the only occassionally used ODD/eGPU.

 

I have to say that I want to give my Z1 to my girlfriend and will buy for me a Z22...

Why? Ich noticed that I NEVER, really never used the ODD when I was on the run the last year and I noticed that I never used the Geforce GFX on the run...

I need battery power and with the extended Dock for Z2 this will be my university rig

 

For my needs (development on the road) the Z2 is superior in many respects to the Z1:

Drive speed (significant)
CPU speed (some)
Heat management (significant)
Weight (significant)
Battery life (significant)
Native multiple monitor support (significant)

YMMV, of course.

 

Realizing you acknowledge guessing, but knowing you as a man of great insights, I just wonder if there is a reason you suspect the IB Z will be a Z23 not a Z3x, in the sense that the same chassis would serve two generations of cpu/gpu technology. Hmm, but now that I think of it, the Z1 pretty much used the VGN-Z chassis and keyboard, just updating to 1st gen. Core i cpus, RAID0 SSDs and the FHD/900p screen options. So perhaps it would be logical that they would once again use the same chassis for two generations of cpu.

Answered my own question. Feeling pretty proud of myself. Now tell me where I got it wrong, Louche. Here's where: as good as the screen is, Sony better have a next act for 13" screens or their gonna lose the "monopoly" on high end ultraportable screens. You can pretty much bet that by the end of the year, there will be at least 2 products with some form of FHD+ at this size level, given all the high dpi/IPS and new hi-res technology being developed for everything from overgrown smart phones to tablets to HDTVs. Why skip the high end laptop market? Think?

 

This presumes that you did get something wrong. I make no such assertion.

I do note that SB and IB are less "two generations of cpu/gpu" than they are the a half generation apart, a "tick" if you will. As you correctly pointed out, Sony didn't change the Z's design when a comparable refinement was made with the pre-SB iX chips.

Since IB is a refinement of SB, there is no reason to redesign the computer -- particularly since the R&D costs on the Z2 must have been quite substantial. I don't know the numbers but I wouldn't be surprised if Sony never goes cash positive on the Z when all of the costs are included (though they must make up for it on the Sx and other models.) Hence, I expect Sony to keep the Z2 design around for the IB upgrade and the Z23 will be available with an i7-3620 processor.

I'm guessing (and only guessing) that there will be a signficant hardware change when the Haswell chips (IB's "tock") come out next year as they should reflect a substantial improvement in capabilities. Even though Intel is an American company, not German, they have ways of making chips tock.

 

While the VGN-Z and VPC-Z chassis are similar, they're still quite different. All of the panels are different. It's my speculation that the IB Z would have a redesigned case of some sort. Maybe not a drastic change from the current, but possibly something different.

Also, the Z22 came out only a couple months after the Z21 with minor changes. Don't you think we'll see a Z23 in the next month or two with no notable difference?

 

I'm not sure when the Z23 will be out, my guess is closer to six months than a month or two. But to get to your point, yes I expect the Z23 to have no major notable differences (other than the obvious). I also expect people will complain about the Z23's drivers and trackpad but that's a different issue.

 

In fairness, I need to point out that some people disagree, such as the Editor-in-Chief of Laptop magazine.

Eyes On: Sony VAIO Ultrabook Concept Photos and Video

Louche or Laptop, who will be correct about the next Z?

 

Comparing my VGN-Z590 to Z2290x, I can say I wasn't blown away immediately.

Design-wise, still lot of things left to be desired. After initial WOW thinness factor, what hurts me is overall width (1.6 cm wider comparing to VGN-Z) and quite ugly and fat screen bezel. I'm one of those people thinking every new laptop should be a tad smaller than previous. Given professional, sharp-eye opinion (read my wife ) Z2 looks just like "another" laptop, "boring" design, and not a bit of "metal feel" from VGN-Z, plus it's "all black" and "where is this beautiful glowing power button?".

As for PMD, it does take some time getting used to it, especially with all those cables and connectors, so I do understand some people not liking this option. We have discussed this external GPU numerous times, all I can say - it is different approach, some may appreciate it, some may not. At the end of the day, I like it ( but not thrilled), as it keeps your laptop cooler being outsourced. That's the real value, at least to me.

Keypad - I really like it more than VGN-Z, got used to it in no time, no issues with short travel in fact I type even faster now. Keypad backlight, not so much, this lime/yellowish color is not top of my list (VGN-Z doesn't have any, but I like VPC-Z white better, looks more classy).

Trackpad is disaster, so difficult to get used to it, and this snake-skin patter doesn't help at all. In fact, I miss my VGN-Z trackpad.


At the end of the day, I find Z2 a good and natural? replacement to my aged VGN-Z. It does have enough catchy features/ technology to justify replacement, although I would be by far less happy (not to say unsatisfied) coming from VPC-Z. The way I see it, simplified version, VPC-Z = Z2, just a different formfactor, and no issues with fading palmrest . If you're happy with VPC-Z, nothing irritates you, no issues with hinges, fading colors.... better wait for Z3 (or whatever dubbed) with Ivy onboard.


Cheers,
Miki

 

@Miki: I just wanted to say "Well done!" for a treatment on a subject that has been kicked around for months and months on this Forum and you really brought some of the bottom-line issues of the Z2, now that we pretty much know what it's pros and cons are.

I keep itching to get one trying one out, and then looking at my VPC-Z1 and, for now, concluding as you suggest - wait for Haswell to upgrade, or at least to IB and then buy an SB closeout or refurb. I have owned 2 Z2s for 2 days and 2 weeks respectively and have to say, I just love the speed, agree with you entirely about the keyboard - never typed as fast on any other one - and agree with all the "cons" you cite.

Oh, and, if you don't want to find yourself spending some $2,000-$3,000 on a Z2 you really think you'll be better off sitting out Do Not Buy the Gold colored model and take it home for a trial. IMHO, it is so drop-dead gorgeous - not the "garrish" look I suspected it might be. Though the fat bezel is still ugly, it looks so much better in this color. Overall, it's the most expensive, luxurious, classy looking/feeling jewel of a laptop and I think the interior metallic dark red/rust (or "Umber" as HP likes to call it but doesn't execute it nearly as gorgeously) is rich, really metallic, and this machine makes you just want to open it up and use it, just for the joy of looking at it.

IMO, of course.

Boo-hoo! Why can't they ever do things perfectly - according to me?!!

 

For me, VPC-Z is the best designed laptop ever! It's a real design marvel with strong Sony's trade mark. I wouldn't mind if Sony would have sliced it a bit here and there, fixed known issues and introduced it as Z2.


Cheers,
Miki

 

I have being trying to buy a Z for quite a while..but the screen bezel width on the Z2 is out of proportion..

 

I had been under then impression that the S's 15.5 FHD option was also a really impressive screen. Am I wrong?

 

^ That's the SE (not the SA)

 

I really like my Z2.
The only thing I wish they had done would be a 14" screen as there sure seems to be enough room for it.
If others can put a 13" screen in a 12" form factor laptop then surely Sony can pull this off?
Maybe in the Z3/Z23/Z*?

 

The Z2 has been engineered to within a nanometer of its life. I'm willing to guess that if Sony could have shaved a half-inch off the Z2's width without sacrificing any capabilities, they would have. Given that, you can expect that when technology developments allow Sony to shrink the size of the Z, they will shrink it rather than expanding the screen size in the same form factor.

 

Sorry if this topic has been discussed but is there a schedule for the next z?

 

Definitely nothing announced. Speculation summary: probably will do an Ivy Bridge refresh/quasi new model using Z2 base and, besides replacing cpu/integrated gpu options, perhaps making a few minor tweaks, colors, fixed packages. Speculation is this would come out about 2 months post-IB in marketplace, which puts it at late summer/early Fall 2012.

 

Thanks - that makes sense

 

I was looking at the new HP Envy's but They apparently suck. So i guess any new vaio with IPS FHD screen, Quad-Core Ivy and 16GB+ ram with ReallyFast SSD and potent graphics. There should be some sort of PCIe external bridge on the next Z which would allow you to plug any PCIe card into an external enclosure similar to vidock but not be limited by current bus speed...... but then again,what sounds far fetch actually happens pretty soon these days.

 

Maybe thunderbolt? Since that would pratically guarentee a DP compatible output, lol.

 

The HP Envy Spectre looks like an amazing laptop, long battery life, great screen, innovative design, usb 3.0 ports and Sata III SSDs

 

Almost four pounds for a ULV chip? No thanks.

 

I would like the next Z to have 16 GB RAM minimum and and less bezel on the screen

 

Do you guys think a 16GB RAM option will be like $800 (after the Sony tax of course)? Can't really think of any other laptops on the market with that option.

 

Colour me disappointed. Another Adamo 13 dud and IMO not even anywhere near as nice looking / individual as one - basically looks like a slightly bloated Air with a Speck snap-on case.

 

The Pannys take 16 gigs.