32bit or 64bit vista?

Well the cheap OEM version I have apparently does not support 64bit as it stated when I tried to install.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832114005

Looks like the retail version supports 64bit.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832114003

Yeah.... WEIRD!

 

I believe Vista 64 uses an emulator for 32 applications, but there is some imcompatibilities, that's why not all 32 applications work well.

 

The reason is that 32-bit and 64-bit systems cannot talk directly to each other in a very low-level way. Since the Vista kernel and explorer are 64-bit applications, it means that 32-bit drivers and 32-bit dlls won't work when they need to talk to the kernel or explorer. That's really the only reason why there are problems with 32-bit compatibility.

Examples of things that need to talk to the kernel are drivers. Examples of things that need to talk to explorer are some extensions (like winzip) that add dll hooks into explorer. Those apps need 64-bit dlls to be able to hook in to explorer. Another example is video codecs: if you use 64-bit player software then you need 64-bit codecs.

 

And most likely some of the issues were fixed with SP1. I think the substance of the article is what is of value.

 

So who works as a translator so 32 apps work in a 64 OS/IE environment, is an emulator of a sort?

 

That's pretty crazy. I hope you're able to get a copy that works. The interesting thing that I've read about x64 is that they are not vulnerable to remote attacks and many viruses have not been written for it. How true is all of that? I have no clue, but that is what I've read.

 

The article cited by Bog in this thread said that Vista 64 had a barrier to get access to the kernel but they eventually agreed to open it to the antivirus developers, so there is your first vulnerabilty.

 

There's this one: http://techreport.com/articles.x/8131/2

But some may find it over their heads (they lost me for a bit, too).

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,111508-page,1/article.html

Here is an article written in plain English.

The part about viruses is not true at all. 64-bit operating systems can still execute 32-bit instructions, with Windows using an emulation layer called WOW64 (Windows on Windows 64... wtf?). So 32-bit viruses still work; its just that 64-bit Windows is equipped with more ways of stopping a virus from running, such as the use of DEP (Data Execution Prevention). Lastly, there aren't many x64 viruses out simply because they are unecessary, for now.

 

The 32-bit apps are handled by WOW64 (Windows on Windows for 64-bit). They stupidly named it with a 64 and put all the 32-bit files in it, and they kept System32 which now contains 64-bit files. Also, it's not strictly an "emulator", but that's pretty close to what it does so it's not a bad way to describe it in conversation.

 

And I thought MS engineers were the cream of the cream

 

cream of the crop... and they actually are pretty good, but you try and design an OS that will be backwards compatable with as much software as possible that has been written for a dozen different platforms over the past 15 years. If every piece of software out there was developed properly, they could do a lot better, but since lots of code for major systems relies on these things, they can't change them.

 

Good common sense.

 

Thanks for clarifying this for me.

 

There are technical reasons for this, like many apps hardcode "system32" inside them. Stupid, but reality.

 

MS should get a few engineers from Apple

 

And Apple should get some engineers from NASA.

Vote for x64

 

And NASA should get some engineers from Intel.

 

A little late here, but to the OP - i was running nod32 just fine for a few weeks, until it all of a sudden blocked access to the web for all applications except internet explorer. I then switched to avast x64.

 

Apple is so clean because they are sort of nazis. The way thier systems are set up restricts and controls development for their platform a lot more than Windows. And they seem less concerned with ensuring backwards compatability. MS engineers are quite good, but they are hamstrung with requirements.

 

I saw the coment putting the blame on the 3rd vendor bad written applications, so my impression is finger pointing in all directions, including the users, although users we should be dummies and work seemlessly with the applications, although you could still have one person stepping on the accelarator instead of the break and make an accident, is the car's fault?

 

A huge portion of the Windows user base is corporate users with proprietary internal software systems. Many of these systems are gigantic and built on core code written many amny years ago, often by people no longer at the company, where there are things that rely on the OS being similar in form and function to Win 95/98 or even Win 3.1. These applications, which took years and millions of dollars to develop, would essentially have to be rewritten by the companies if MS built Windows from a clean slate.

MS basically has 2 choices; they can develop Windows with a bunch if cludgy workarounds and nonsensical features so that this old, static code can keep working, or they can tell a huge user base/revenue stream that they will have to invest a bunch of time and money in to rebuilding software from the ground up in order to stay with Windows. Many of these companies, if forced to rewrite this code, would simply move to a different OS (like Linux) at the same time, but as long as Windows still supports thier old cludgy code, it is cheaper to stay with Windows than move to something else. It would be supremely boneheaded from a buisness perspective for MS to do this.

 

No reason to get 64bit really unless you have a specific reason to use it over x86.

The number 1 main reason for this is to use 4gb or more of ram. But in a laptop its not a very common thing and almost never will you find yourself using 4gb of ram in a laptop.

So while I dont say there is really anything wrong with x64, I also say there is no real reason to get x64.

My testing with programs that have a x64 mode are showin that they still run faster in x86 mode even in Vista Ult x64.... so the tech just has not evolved yet.

Now add in the fact that there are indeed some programs that wont run on x64 and minor incompatibilities and I cant say I recommend x64 to anybody unless again you have a real reason to use it for one of its native benefits and not just "because"

Im on my desktop right now and using Vista Ultimate x64, it works with most stuff but yeah I have had some problems. I like to play oldschool games and stuff and my MKT game wont work, I noticed some older video game emulators have issues, narbacular drop doesnt work, but I was able to put all that behind me.

But just recently I found PPJoy does not work, a virtual joystick emulation that I need to use my Wii controller for my computer games, and that was the last draw. I will install x86 on my next computer because I am starting to sacrifice more for x64 than anything to gain.

Check my C90S review in my sig, I have a triple boot on my laptop and ran it thru some test with XP, Vista x86, and Vista x64. You can see for yourself that x64 really did not gain anything over x86.

 

The solution to such programs: VMWare

Makes it also very easy to deploy those legacy enviroments to any new hardware or OS that years might bring, as long as VMWare works in that enviroment. It's just matter of copying few files. And with ACE server and such it's even easier. Hell, even USB devices without 64 bit drivers work there.

 

Vista has new feature called SuperFetch. It does pre-loads files to memory it thinks you might be needing soon. Result is, that when you launch outlook, web browser, Word or any other program you use constantly it will be lighting fast procedure. At least if you have enough memory..

The thing is, all memory can and will be used in Vista effectively no matter what the real needs might be.

 

Please don't hammer me cuz my ignorance, but here is my question. How far does x86 go in terms of architecture, 32 bits? Is it possible that all the current x64 applications are written for a x64 "OS" but not for a x64 computer architecture?

I'm a hardware guy, so software is not my fortee, so you can certainly call me ignorant and I won't get hurt, but if you hammer me, yes, I will feel hurt cuz monkeys are very sensitive

 

What?

You can only run an x64 OS on an x64 architecture. In fact, "x64 OS" just means an OS compiled for an x64 architecture.

Although if you mean that many apps might not be fully optimized for an x64 CPU... that's probably true.

Neither is spelling, apparently.

How 'bout a banana?

 

That's right, that's what I had in mind, 64 apps not being optimized for a 64 platform, which would be a shame if is true.

Which word did I mess up?

I'm always ready to get bananas, but not from a mad scientist like you, I'm afraid I'm going to get contaminated

 

Yes, IE7 x64 also supports 256bits encryption versus 128bits one

 

monkey:

it's forte, not fortee........

i thought i suggested you start using spell check w/ FF or IE7 Pro........

 

Hahahaha, I know is forte, but I typed too fast and put an extra e, do you know what it means BTW?

 

My spelling is quite horrid too, please send a PM to Andrew or one of the other admins if you are applying for the spelling police position.

As for the questions asked of me.

x86 = 32bit its a long story to explain why its called that

I know all about Vista and its super fetch, I use Vista as my primary OS on both my computers. Vista Ult X64 on my Desktop and Vista Home Premium x86 on my laptop and on both machines I have 2gb of ram currently installed and never does it use more than about 40% when I installed 3gb of ram on my laptop the ram use just dropped down lower, it didnt hold more because I already reached the limit where super fetch does not need anymore.

So I still say 4gb in a notebook will almost never be used.
Plus even in x86 you can still use over 3gb of ram so not like that extra 512 to 756mb of ram is really going to be a life changing experience.

 

Does the position pay well??

 

So, don't know what is "forte" ah?

 

It means strong

 

Thank you JCMS, I'm from Montreal and I obviously speak French, so I do know what it means, but I wanted to give a lesson to nobscot6 who to make fun of me corrected me cuz I misspelled it fortee while I was typing very fast, I asked the question to him, but he has NO CLUE what it means.

So before to correct other he should pay attention to himself.

Thank you anyway, good night.

PS: Actually, I would rather translate it "strength", is more appropriate as my sentence was "software is not my forte"

 

Ahahaha I didn't know you were from Montreal. Good night too

 

Yes, I am, but I live in Maryland, I saw you live in Quebec city, beautiful place, I miss it very much.

 

The figure also depends where you look it. If you go to task manager and just see the "Physical Memory: XX%" figure you don't see actual memory usage. That is because the cached filememory doesn't count as reserved. The actual figure is at the performance tab nder Physical Memory (MB) group.

That said, I can believe you don't have big enough files to fill all your memory. I have never tried Vista with only web browser usage or something equally lightwave. But I can say my laptop uses all 4GB and most definently could use even more if I had installed. About 50-65% of that in my normal use goes just for the SuperFetch while rest is actual program data. I guess alot of that could come from the Outlook where my main mail file size is about 1.4GB and archive file about 2.4GB (I don't believe to delete ).

Anyway, I use and have used notebooks as my main development (Access, VB and now .NET+ sometimes some PHP) enviroments for almost 9 years now. I also know alot other people too who use notebooks instead desktop computers for heavy (resource wise) uses because they have to work on client's or vendor's buildings. I think generalizing notebooks for only light use is quite narrow view today.

 

get your facts straight monkey!!!!!!!!!!

It WAS NOT me who pointed out that you misspelled it

I simply responded to your question of what was misspelled.........and how it is spelled.........

and it's not "himself", as I'm a she...........

and why are you so insecure as to have to continuously go off topic to post your trivial thoughts and increase your post count. You don't just edit your current posts-you post another, right after each other, over and over

ann

 

The forum rules doesn't prevent me from asking "trivial" questions or posting as many times I want, but the forum rules does FORBID other member's harassment.

If I wanted and English class I would certainly not come to NBR and even less to you. So, if you have something in particular to discuss with a member use the provided tools, PM the member.

So, this is my first and last warning, stop this immediately, thanks.

 

Everybody should know by now that there is a private message function.

 

Wireless, stop making threats. It's as much your fault as her's. Now back to the actual topic... how many pages back is that?

 

It wasn't a threat, is a "warning" not just for her but for anyone looking to harass other members.

Plus when these type of interactions happen is because there is nothing else to say about the topic, do you have something to say?

 

So, if they are going to publish 37.765 versions of the OS, perhaps one should be pure 64 bit and not back compatible...

Also, why move to a different OS? If the corps have to rewrite things, why would they rewrite for Linux as opposed to Super-Gates 64? Or OS X? Just wondering...I know nothing of linux.

 

Yeah... I used to build fortes by throwing beach blankets or sheets over a table