Battery drain in Vista hiberation

Is it normal for the computer to lose 10-15% of battery (=~ 7 Watt-hour) during 18hours of hibernation (say from tonight until tomorrow afternoon) from the Windows Vista OS?

I already know of this issue with two laptops: ASUS R1F, and Compaq Presario C700 (C710ED). Therefore I think it's a Vista problem, and not a computer-specific issue. I did not get a chance to verify it on other Vista laptops.

I have verified on the second computer that it is happening only during hibernation. When computer was shutdown instead of put into hibernation, it lost no battery during a similar 18-hour period.

This means that if left during hibernation for more than a few days, the computer could completely drain its battery.
One can argue that for such a long period the computer should be shut down, but:

1. For a person used to using hibernation, it can very well happen they put the notebook into hibernation and leave on a few days of holiday or something similar. One shouldn't have to worry about one's battery dying when the computer is supposed to be off, should one? Also if the period is longer / say a few weeks, this could even affect the maximum charge of the battery, i.e. add wear to it (leaving batteries drained for a period of weeks is not such a hot idea)! I don't think it's nice to go on holiday and always wonder, did I put my computer in hibernation or did I shut it down? Will I get 5% extra wear when I'm back?

2. Hibernating over night and then taking the computer with you in the morning (say to classes), it's not nice to see that you have 20-25 minutes less on battery than you would expect.

Does anyone has any experience with this issue? Can this be solved from Vista hibernation options, or otherwise?

PS:

Clearly not true for the computers mentioned above.

 

At the risk of stating the obvious, if your machine is consuming power it is not truly in hibernation. Sounds more like it is in sleep mode but the power consumption even sounds a bit high for true sleep mode. Remember Vista actually has two sleep modes, I forget what the two are called. One creates the equivalent of a hibernation file and then goes to sleep. The other just sleeps. Do you think MAYBE you are in the first of those two modes?

Since Vista doesn't show you any progress of creating the hibernation file, how are you able to verify you are in hibernation? I assume you DO see the "resuming windows" message when you power it back up.

Do you see anything in the logs about any issues with going into hibernation?

Gary

 

1. I have set the action of the power button to "Hibernate" under all power profiles. I am using the power button to poweroff.
2. windowsvistablog.com states that there is no hybrid suspend mode for laptops: http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/w...006/12/08/windows-vista-power-management.aspx
3. I see the "Resuming" screen, & the HDD activity during poweroff and poweron are consistent with writing a complete hibernation file.

So I really believe I am using suspend to disk (hibernation).

Regardless, do you know of any stronger method to enforce suspend to disk & not the hybrid mode? To eliminate this possible cause.

I do not know how to check the error logs in Vista, but I can find out, unless you're so kind to provide a link

 

Instead of using the power button use the start menu and see if it makes a difference. (See attachment.)

There are some specific logs for power management startup/shut down issues. I don't have a link, and off hand do rememeber SPECIFICALLY where I was looking thorough them. Sorry. If I do remember I'll post another note.

Gary

 

I'll try that (I'll use Hibernate but not Shutdown). In shutdown there is no battery issue.

 

I started the computer yesterday evening, after having it hibernate on Friday evening. So, roughly 4 full days. The battery was at 56% (!!!)

 

How old is the computer? How old is the battery? Are you leaving the laptop near any heat sources? Are there any lights blinking on it when it's in hibernation?

 

Computer brand new, and battery the same. No heat sources. No lights blinking (it's not in standby don't worry).

 

Call tech support and tell them to solve the issue, then.

What about wireless? Could it be that you have some wireless or bluetooth card always on? 7 Wh in 18 hours is some 400 mW of power drain.
Have you tried to switch off wi-fi radio and bluetooth from the OS and from the BIOS?

 

Hmm... Let me try that too. Boot from WLAN maybe?

 

Are you certain that your laptop isn't waking up in the middle of the night to run some scheduled task?

 

Not quite.
There should be some entry for turning of Bluetooth and wifi in the bios. In Dell's bios there is an option for them. My vostro also have a mechanical switch, to make sure the wifi is turned off.
I am pretty ignorant of wireless issues, though since I do not have any device yet to connect my laptop with.
I simply turn my switch off to save battery life.

Other options of interest should be wake up on LAN (turn it off) and possibily some sort of wifi catcher that could use up your battery.
400 mW are too much for a wifi catcher though.

 

Hmm... actually no, I'm not certain. But that would be an extremely STUPID (caps and bold) thing to do for Vista. You know, laptops use to stay in bags when they are not on... turn them on in the middle of the night and you've got a fair chance of melting them.

The notebook does not have bluetooth. I turned off boot from LAN in the BIOS (although I think that only refers to the wired LAN, boot from WLAN would be too much of a security hazard), and the wireless switch. There's nothing more to turn off in the BIOS (it has very limited options). I also shutdown using the explicit option in the Start menu, and not the power button.

We'll see tonight.

 

Systems turned off or in true hibertnation, where the power is off, cannot wake without user intervention. In sleep mode they can.

Gary

 

That's what I thought. But there are instances where computers do wake up randomly, possibly because hibernation is buggy due to the manufacturer drivers and/or Vista issues, and doesn't put the computer into a true "off" state (I know it happened with some ASUS notebooks). Possibly this is what's happening here.

 

I assume you meant you hibernated using the explicit option, right?

I wonder if we are dealing with a battery issue? NiMH batteries have a known "self discharge" rate. Charge one up, let it set and it will loose a certain percentage over time. (Side note: Duracell just released a line of NiMH AA batteries called "precharged". They will hold a charge for almost a year!)

But back to YOUR situation. Have you tried powering the machine off overnight (true OFF, not hibernation) and see if you have any power loss? If you DO see power loss, then try an overnight with the battery OUT of the machine and see what transpires. The direction I am taking here is MAYBE your batteries are discharging on their own due to some acceleration of the known self discharge properties.

Gary

 

That's a great idea. Fully charge the battery, then take it out overnight and see what happens.

 

EBE,

I am pretty certain that my W3j wakes up (from sleep, but possible would do it from hibernation) in the middle of the night to check for updates. I have several ideas of ways to check. One way I know is that Outlook has received mail from the middle of the night (its in standby when I go to bed, standby when I get up, but it got mail?) the other is a (mostly) simple idea if you are any good with a soldering iron and have a local radio shack. You could (easily) wire up a USB clock, just a small battery powered clock (analog, $5 tops) then it will run when USB has power. Set it to a time, and the time will be different if the computer ran in the night.

 

Batteries do not discharge on their own. There is no issue when the notebook is shutdown.

And I have used HIBERNATION from the menu, indeed, shutdown was a typo in that context.

Caleb,

That really sucks. If that's true, then I have been overheating that computer on a regular basis (each night).

I'm not going to try the clock idea it's not my computer and I'll only have it for 2 more nights.

but I will hibernate it while playing a loud movie or something tonight, and will leave it standing on the table. if it wakes up I will certainly hear it.

Low-tech solution but it will work

 

The only problem I see with the movie idea is that it might come back paused or stopped, so you won't hear it. You can easily test that, though. Have you checked the system logs? They should show what was going on, and the update record should show last time it checked for and installed updates (shows all update history, too). You could also try setting it to not go back to hibernate after x amount of time, and see if it is on in the morning, I don't know if it would automatically shut down after auto-updates, but if not, then it would just be on in the morning (plug it in for that one).

 

Guys, I don't see how it could POSSIBLY wake from hibernation. By definition in hibernation the power is off, so what is powering the machine up? I know that wake-on-lan works because the ethernet card is able to trigger the power supply to startup. But how is an update cycle going to power the machine up? What event is going to trigger this? The real time clock in the CMOS is running, but I am pretty sure it has no alarm event that can trigger the power supply.

Gary

 

I don't know and I'm not sure about the details of implementation for these things. However, like I said, and if I remember correctly, there was at least one case reported where an ASUS notebook that was (apparently) in hibernation woke up in the case and overheated.

I have powered on the computer today and it had lost around 7 to 10% (I'm not sure because there are some quirks in the reported charge as well). This was with the boot from LAN in the BIOS and wireless switch off, and hibernated using the Start menu option.

I'll try the "movie test" this evening.

If it doesn't boot up during the night I'll leave it be. I'll just advise the owner of this computer that she shouldn't leave it in hibernation for more than a few days, but use shutdown instead.

 

disable the sleep/hiberate after "x" timer then hiberate manually. If it comes up automaticaly, it would not go to sleep/hiberate and you would notice. Do use main instead of battery though as otherwise it may be drain to empty.

If you suspect it is the network, unplug the wire and disable the wireless in BIOS.

Though by definition, hibernate is equal to shutdown, only the booting sequence changed(load from saved state instead of the normal boot sequence), that is why you don't see the boot menu.

 

Well, well, well. Apparently Vista is able to inteact with the BIOS and use the real time clock in CMOS to wake the machine up at a particular time!!!

Check this thread: tx1000 wakes up from hibernation Look at messge #3 in the thread.

This might very well be the issue with your friends machine!

Gary

 

That is very ugly. My understanding is that there are some BIOS which supports this "wake on" particular time feature. But Vista do it to this level is IMO a bit too much, that is messing around with BIOS settings.

 

It does not wake up during the night.
If it wakes up during the day the neighbors will complain as I left a video running at max volume!

I don't think it's this problem, anyway. I think Vista leaves some devices running when hibernated, and those eat power. And I'm pretty much fed up with this (& Vista while I'm at it). I will let the owner deal with this issue.

 

I use hibernation all the time and a few weeks back my Zepto woke up in the night and then stayed on. I searched through Task Scheduler and found that a recently installed application was scheduled to check for an update during the night. I disabled that and the problem hasn't happened again. The Event Log should show what happened.

I have all the normal wake up options (LAN, modem, USB) disabled. It is very disturbing if Vista is able to tell the BIOS, before hibernating, to wake the computer at a particular time. Perhaps it is something that was intended for us on desktops and got carried over into notebooks. It should be disabled at all times when running on battery and by default when running on mains in case the computer has been closed.

The first task is to make sure Task Scheduler has nothing set to run at a particular time unless the computer is already on. (My System Restore is set to run at 00:00 and is all greyed out so I can't change it. However, I've no evidence that it has woken up and run).

John

 

Oh I will definitely check Events and Task Scheduler now that I know it's possible.

But I didn't hear the video last night, so unless it starts in some sort of "silent" mode, then it didn't start.

Or maybe I slept like a rock

I completely agree that activating automated bootups on a laptop computer IS HORRIBLE DESIGN BY MICROSOFT. This can easily kill a laptop by regularly overheating it. And I can bet it does too, because many people will not know their computer starts in the middle of the night.

This is absolutely horrible design by Microsoft, I will repeat it. It is appalling.

 

I agree with that. Much like the hybrid sleep is disabled on laptops, this shouldn't be an option. It defeats most of the purpose of hibernate. Even though most nights my computer is on my desk plugged in, I wouldn't want it to turn on die in my bag sometime.

 

The check for updates is usually set up for each morning at 3:00 AM. It's supposed to run only if the PC is plugged in to A/C power. Are you perhaps placing the laptop into hibernate/suspend while it is plugged in, and then uplugging it? If so it'll probably still wake up at 3:00 since the timer would have been set & activated while A/C power was still available.

 

I checked all the scheduled tasks. None of them is set to wake the computer. Some of them are indeed set to run when plugged in only. Furthermore, the "movie test" failed (or succeeeded?) i.e. the computer did not start.

I still think Vista does not cut power to some component like wlan for instance, either due to some "feature" or to driver issues.

 

That's a plausible theory but would be bad design since many portable computers are normally run on mains and then put away after it has shut down. However, it should not wake up from hibernation under any circumstance. A notebook may be left on mains power but closed, in which case it should not wake up because some models are vulnerable to overheating when closed.

John

 

Not denying that it'd be bad design... but it also wouldn't be the first time that bad design has made it into an RTM release of a Microsoft product.

 

I came across this thread while searching for possible solutions to my laptop's issue of reseting screen resolution to min. when waking from sleep mode. Anyway, I too have issues with battery drainage in hibernation. In addition, I can verify that the laptop will wake from hibernation for scheduled tasks; I heard it make it's 'happy' chime this morning at around 3AM! There are numerous tasks scheduled to take place in the wee hours of the morning, so; I guess I need to stop storing it in the messenger bag or do some re-scheduling of events. I do normally have it on A/C when I put it in hibernation, I guess I could try and unplug it and then hibernate and see if it still wakes up. I thought that there might be a possibility that the 'critical' bios revision (F.09) that I just flashed last night might address this issue, but this happened afterwards, so it was something else it addressed I suppose. The laptop is an HP, specs in my sig.

 

I suggest check each and every task in Task Scheduler, and disable "Wake computer to run this task" if it is enabled for any.

If it is not enabled for any task, then check the update schedule for your installed applications; and other things like defragmentation (w/ external apps, the Vista one is int he Task Scheduler) schedules.

 

My notebook briefly wakes up exactly after 6 hours of sleep, then almost immediately goes to sleep again.

In the log there are "wakeup source: RTC" (real time clock), so its time-scheduled.

But the wierd thing that there are no tasks that use "wake up computer" option, checked it twice and in runned tasks log - nothing.

 

See above post, maybe some automatic update/other task of a 3rd party program which does not go through the task scheduler but makes the appropriate (or rather, unappropriate in this case) system calls directly.

Edit: oh and by the way if the BIOS supports wake-on-clock events there DEFINITELY should be an option to disable that feature in the BIOS itself. That is the only good design I can think of.

 

I lose battery life when the computer goes down for the count too... A few percentage points here and there... It'll be at 100% when I leave it one night and then at 90% when I turn it on the next morning... I haven't bothered playing around with it yet though...

 

Hmm, I checked my laptop and realized that on High Performance setting (the one I have it at most of the time) it didn't Hibernate for 18 hours... Which is strange, so I changed it to an hour... I'm guessing that'll take care of it for me.

 

Yes, if the system was in standby instead of hibernation, the battery drain is to be expected.

 

that is very odd...i have many tasks scheduled for mid morning, such as avg virus check, defrag, and so on...i have never had any of that happen..

are you sure you're not mistaking the diff b/w sleep and hibernation? if it is in hibernate mode...NOTHING should wake it up..even scheduled tasks

 

Apparently there are some machines equipped with a bios that is capable of waking the machine when a timer expires just like some have a "wake on lan"
function built in. Vista is able to recognize such a bios and then the task scheduler will interact with and manipulate that BIOS based timer function. I think this was intended to be for desktop machines but somehow it is apparently affecting laptops as well. Which can be a really bad thing if the laptop is sequestered in a bag at the time it comes on.

Gary

 

Hate to resurrect an old thread, but I don't see a solution. Did you try putting the computer in hibernation, removing the battery and putting it back in the morning?

~ Brett

 

it's the wake on lan settings and usb detect settings, you have to turn those off

 

As for me, unexplained wakeups ceased when I've installed the Vista SP1 beta.
BTW, it was not wake on LAN, or USB, wakeup source in the log was listed as "RTC" (real time clock).

 

It is not wake on LAN or USB, usually it is the Task Scheduler of Vista using the real time clock to wake up Vista in order to perform some task.

The computer where I had this problem with Vista is long gone to its owner. There were no wakeups there. I simply think that Vista did not cut off power to some devices in hibernation.

 

I've a Lenovo X61s subnotebook. My battery would drain 15-20% during a hibernation period of 8-10 hours. After Lenovo replaced my motherboard and battery, the battery drain persisted. Lenovo's famous design laboratory Yamato in Tokyo has already confirmed that Vista or more specifically some Vista Updates are causing the battery drain. In another words, if you reinstall the PC back to the day you received it, your battery wouldn't drain. Lenovo is currently working with Microsoft to solve the battery drain issue.

At present, the only viable option to stop the battery drain is 1) unplugged AC before hitting hibernation 2) simply shutdown or 3) after hibernation, unplug and plug the battery back to the PC. I think most users would prefer the 1) option.

Some users in Taiwan claimed that flashing to the latest BIOS would solve the issue; however, I doubt it very much.

 

I'll add my story to that...while on hibernation, some USB ports are still alimented...as my notebook cooler is still bravely attempting to cool my laptop...

it's only one of the 4 usb port i have...

but i guess it explained while my battery always loose some power when i wake the computer up

 

Yes, this is along the lines of what I suspected. Perhaps the devices that are being powered during hibernation are the USB ports, as jiwwy-ast says. Or some others. Or both USB and others.

Thanks for posting the solutions!

Just Vista quirks and glitches... they'll take 5 or 6 years to get it right and then they'll release another OS, full of its own fresh bugs

Well, I guess it's better than having the computer waked up during the night.