Choice of email clients

Hi...

Lately I have been experiencing the need to have an email client on my machine. I have the Home and Student Office 2007 copy, which does not have Outlook, so I have to look elsewhere.

I am looking at Windows Live Mail (part of Windows Live Essentials) and Thunderbird 3.0. Here are a couple of things that I do need:

(1) The email client must have a calendar facilty. I believe Thunderbird 3.0 has it in the form of Lightening. Don't know about Windows Live Mail. But will check on it. Edit: Apparently the most recent version of WLM has a calendar facility but it is said to be limited in its functionality. I'll be looking into this more keenly.

(2) Preferably, the email client should natively run on 64-bit OS (Win 7 Pro)

(3) The interaction with Gmail should be as seamless as possible.

So, what would you recommend? Windows Live Mail or Thunderbird 3.0 or something else?

Thanks

 

For seamless interaction with Gmail you only have one choice: Thunderbird. It will use all the Gmail folders as spam and trash if you use imap. That kind of interaction is unfortunately not possible with Windows Live Mail and Outlook.

 

time & chaos intellect, EssentialPIM, EasyPIM, etc, etc. There are hundreds of email clients that speak web mail, smtp, and imap.

 

But if have seen none as integrated with Gmail as Thunderbird 3.

 

@Gandalf & Newposter...

Thanks. Ok, so TB is a better option. How about the calendar function/ add-on that integrates with TB? Is it any good? Better than the calendar function in WLM?

And, in TB, will it keep all the labels that I currently have on my Gmail account (assuming I opt for the IMAP option, which I see no reason why I should not)?

@ Newposter: Thanks for the suggestions, but if possible, I'd like to keep to "free" options. I did check Time & Chaos and while it did look good, I have to buy it.

Thanks

 

I would go with Thunderbird 3.0. I personally liked the way the tabs are used and set up. I know many people who agree with this too. Anything that is compatible with Mozilla works well for me.

 

Hmmm...there seem to be quite a few problems reported with TB. I was reading some of the user comments at this site. I saw some very similar comments on some other sites too. Also, if I am understanding this correctly, sometimes TB does not uninstall completely.

I wonder if these problems are there in WLM too. Any insights?

Thanks

 

I have installed the lightning/calender add-on, but have not really used it yet, so I can't help you with that.
The labels of Gmail are folders for Thunderbird and it works quite well.

I have no problems with Thunderbird 3 and have installed it on the computers of family members without any problems.
I have no problems with WLM either.
If you have Hotmail go with WLM and if you have Gmail go with Thunderbird 3.

 

I have over 2000+ emails in my primary gmail account. There won't be a problem transferring them over into TB would it?

And, I should mention that I am on Win 7 64-bit. That would also not cause a problem would it. I ask this because it appears to me that most of the problems that I read about are on Win 7 machines.

Yeah...I have only gmail accounts - ok then I'll give it a shot. Am off to download TB 3. Thanks for all your help and comments.

Cheers!

 

I'm also running Win 7 64-bit.
I really don't know if 2000+ messages will give a problem with Thunderbird or WLM. Maybe somebody else can comment on that.
But if you can always do a backup of Gmail first with MailStore Home to be sure. Free email archiving and backup software - MailStore Home

3 nice add-ons for thunderbird are:
AddressBookTab https://addons.mozilla.org/nl/thunderbird/addon/67147/
Image Zoom https://addons.mozilla.org/nl/thunderbird/addon/139/
Zindus http://www.zindus.com/

 

it appears that you don't really want an email client, you want a third-party GUI for Gmail. Yes?

 

Well....not really. I did take a look at offline Gmail and Zimbra, but no that's not what I am looking for. As I mentioned in the first post, I am looking for a client where I can (1) do the PIM work (2) have offline email capability with both these being integrated. Since I don't work in an MS Exchange and/ or Lotus environment, I have to rely on Gmail for work (my Institute's own mail facilities are absymal in its functionality).

Sometimes, I wish I would have opted for the Professional Version of Office 2007, which would have given me Outlook (but note OneNote - but perhaps I could have got it as a standalone app). As things stand, Outlook is too expensive for me buy as a standalone app at the moment. Thus hunt for a stable email + calendar client.

Thanks

 

ok, just clarifying what you want/need.

You might have to bite the bullet on payware. There are a lot of good PIM/email clients in the $50- range. If it's something you are going to center your life on (PIM) for a few years, the money might be a good spend.

I spent $30 for T&C Intellect some 5 years ago. Prices have gone up since than but that (currently) comes out to approx $5- a year.

And I'm thinking of dumping Intellect for EssentialPIM because of device sync issues. Funny because I originally bought Intellect because, at the time, it had the best device sync capabilities around.

 

@ newposter....If I do that (I did check out EssentialPM after you mentioned it initially), then why not just go for Outlook 2007 (upgradeable to 2010)...though I am not sure how integrated standalone Office apps are when pruchased and installed independently. Since I use a Nokia phone, synching with Outlook would not be a problem. Actually, this last point is something that I have been thinking about quite a bit since I am not sure TB syncs well with Symbian, and I am not sure about WLM either. But I do know that Outlook 2007 has very few problems (if any) in this matter.

PS: Considering the time that I have spent on this matter, I am now thinking whether it was worth it using Gmail's web interface only. I should have used an email/PIM client right from the start. Whenever I think of the 2000+ emails in my gmail account, I shudder when I think about synching and all that can go wrong.

Gandalf did suggest a mail backup program in one of his posts above and I checked that out too, but I am not sure of adding programs is the solution. There must be an easier way to decide what to do and what program/ client to use. Maybe my approach in itelf is all messed up. Time for a rethink perhaps.

There is one more question I wanted to ask and this is about the threaded conversation in Gmail, which I originally was a fan of but now am becoming disillusioned with since as the thread grows longer, I find that I am scrolling more and more especially because Gmail insists on placing the original email at the top of the thread.

So, the question is can both WLM and TB do the threaded conversation but with the most recent email of a thread right on top? And, secondly, if I remove all labels from Gmail can I organize the emails when they are downloaded into the client into topic/subject specific folders? If the answer to the latter question is yes, then I am assuming that it won't be reflected on Gmail in any way, which may be a good thing.

 

OK. Here is what I tried. First, I downloaded WLM and went through the process of trying to get gmail to work. It worked, but I was unable to get the labels in Gmail to show as folders in WLM. I don't know why. I used this guide, but to no avail. If you know how to get this working, please do let me know. Thanks

I guess now I am going to try TB3.

I downloaded and installed TB3. Works just fine and was quite hassle-free. Got my addresses from Gmail into the TB Address Book. The emails and folders are now synching. This was much simpler than Windows Live Mail. Thanks folks, I will post further questions if I run into a problem. Btw, I also installed the Calendar and it works just right.

Thanks

 

I had been using TB for a while too, but then I got Outlook, now I'm in love! If you ever have the spare cash, buy Outlook. I use it for everything, from school lessons, email, I even write in my homework.

TB was GREAT! Still is. But I like the look of Outlook better

BTW, I'm glad you like TB, it really is a great, great product. + Free too, so that's an added bonus.

 

I found another guide for Gmail in WLM.
How to Access a Gmail Account in Windows Live Mail - About Email
It works but with some errors, so I think your best bet is still Thinderbird3.
I could change when WLM wave 4 arrives...
I sure hope Microsoft learns from Mozilla.

 

I thought the current release of WLM is Wave 4. The only point that I note about TB3 is that it keeps doing the indexing thing over and over again. From what I read at other sites, it seems that this is what happens initially and that TB settles down quite quickly after that.

@ joelkrause57...yes, I would like to use Outlook, and I could probably buy it now, but I have Office Home and Student, which does not carry Outlook and if I buy a standalone version, I have read a few threads someplace - I don't remember exactly where - where it is alleged that there are some problems since it is not fully integrated with the rest of the Office Suite (though I must say that I do find that to be a bit strange.).

Thanks. I saw this guide too. What I would like to know is why are the following steps required? The following is from the link you provided. I have seen the same instructions elsewhere but no reasons as to why copying into Notepad is necessary.

•Open your Windows Live Mail folder in Windows.
•Go to the Gmail (user name) sub-folder.
•Open Notepad.
•Drag and drop the account{***}.oeaccount (where "***" represents a long random string) file from the imap.gmail.com onto Notepad to open it.
•Look for the '#' in "[Gmail]#Sent Items", "[Gmail]#Drafts", "[Gmail]#Trash" and "[Gmail]#Spam" and replace it with '/' (always excluding the quotation marks).
•After editing, "[Gmail]#Sent Items" should read "[Gmail]/Sent Items", for example.

 

One more question:

If I am going to be committed to TB3 (or for that matter Outlook/ WLM), can I get rid of all "labels" in Gmail? I am guessing that if I am willing to go through all my mails in TB3 and assign them folders therein, the same should show up as labels in Gmail too. Am I correct in assuming this?

 

You can't exactly "get rid" of Gmail's labels. They're an integrated part of the service. That said, your Thunderbird folders will indeed show up as labels in TB3 (and vice versa). For what it's worth, I refuse to use anything but TB3 with Gmail. The last time I used Outlook with Gmail IMAP it was incredibly slow. Granted, it worked, but TB3 is far more seamless. Here's a guide that was posted on Lifehacker some time ago; it's a great starting place for getting accustomed to TB3 with Gmail: Turn Thunderbird into the Ultimate Gmail IMAP Client

As for the calendar function, I've found that it works fairly well. It's not quite as smooth as I'd like it to be, but it does work as billed. Oh, and it can sync with multiple calendars (Outlook is currently limited to one).

 

@Ecar88..thanks for the heads-up. Yes, I have also found contrary to some of the reviews/ complaints against TB 3.0.4 that it is quite seamless with Gmail. I have also added-on the calender function, which also seems to be working quite well as of now.

About labels in Gmail. I thought the only labels that Gmail, by default puts in, are Inbox, Sent, All Mail and maybe one or two more. All user create labels can be removed. This means all previously mails that were labelled by the user always revert to the Inbox, All Mail and Sent and a few other labels (most of which can be hidden). So, what I was thinking of doing is that I would kill all labels created by me on Gmail. This would make existing mails revert to the default labels on Gmail. Then I would create the appropriate folders on TB and fill those. This in turn would reflect on Gmail. In other words, instead of allowing Gmail to control the folder function in TB, I would make the folders in TB control the labels in Gmail.

What do you think? Would this work?

Thanks

PS: Thanks for the LifeHacker link. I used that to configure my install of TB!!!

Edit: Any ideas as to how TB interacts with Symbian-based smartphones? Or, maybe it is time to think about moving onto the Android platform, which will allow for synching with Google Calendar which, as you said, works well with TB's calender add-on.

 

Ah, ok. I misunderstood what you meant by that the first time. Yup, that would work. Now mind you, if you're planning on using the same folders, then you don't need to recreate them in Thunderbird. It's not really a matter of Gmail controlling Thunderbird or vice versa; it's a bi-directional sync, so you shouldn't need to start from scratch. That said, I may have misunderstood what you're trying to do, so please ignore that bit of advice if you had something else in mind, heh.

As for the smartphones, I'm afraid I'm not much help there. I'm too cheap to buy a data plan, heh. I'd imagine that there should be a way to do it, though. Thunderbird has an excellent userbase, and the nature of the program means that extensions for added functionality abound.

Oh, and the last note I'll make is about contacts. I like keeping a backup copy of my contacts list on Gmail, and I've found that the best TB3 extension for that is Zindus: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/6095/
I have a good 2000+ contacts, and it syncs them without difficulty.

 

Hi...

Thanks.

I am using Zindus too and it is seems to work really well.

I'll check on the smartphones thing. It would be really helpful if there is some sort of integration. Though - based on what you said, I could simply sync the phone with Gmail and have that since with TB and thereby get a sync all around.

About the labels. I have (at last count) over 40 labels in Gmail. This was from the days when I first discovered the labels and went crazy creating them. Now, I don't use them any more. I have also been reading about how to rationalize emails based on tasks etc., which ultimately leads to having basically 3-4 labels. Like one for "Urgent - Unaddressed Mails", another for "Immediate Follow-Up" and the third is the archive (to which I can go to fo mails I may need for future reference). Ok...maybe a few more based on subjects/topics/issues etc. But no point in having labels for everything, which is what I have now. So, I was thinking I would kill all the user created labels on Gmail. This would mean that all mails would revert to the default Inbox and Sent labels on Gmail. Sync this with TB and this should also be reflected therein. Then create folders like how I described above in TB. Synch again with gmail and the hope is that the TB folders would be reflected on Gmail. Thus no need to set filters on Gmail. Just use the drag and drop feature from within TB. What do you say? Makes sense?

Cheers!

 

Yup, that makes perfect sense. Mainly because that's exactly how I have my system set up, heh. I've become a huge fan of the "Inbox 0" philosophy, and so use a tweaked form of what you described. Organizational systems tend to not stick for me, so what I've done is modified my actions to these:
- Delete (For once-over reads/notifications of various things)
- Immediate reply (For any low-effort responses)
- Archive (For no-reply-needed)
- Leave it in the inbox (For medium-effort responses)
- Star it and Archive (For long-term/high-effort responses)
It's the same idea, but doesn't require additional folders. Also has the benefit of keeping everything in front of me (I have a terrible short-term memory, heh).

 

Cool...thanks. Now the only left is to do it and that's gonna take a lot of time. Deleting the labels is not the problem, nor is creating the folders in TB. But going through 2000+ emails to put into the relevant folders in TB would take a lot of time! Unless you can suggest a better and easier way to do it.

Cheers!

Edit: BTW, if I want to read emails offline in TB, is it better to use POP as compared to IMAP? I ask because I recently saw this.

 

That link is somewhat outdated, to be honest. It used to be true that POP was somewhat faster than IMAP for archiving an e-mail account locally; but that's a moot issue nowadays. I personally prefer IMAP because I have multiple computers synced up to my inboxes, and there really aren't any disadvantages to the system. Thunderbird does just fine with IMAP, and I believe that the current version stores all files locally by default.

As for the folders, the only thing that comes to mind would be to use saved searches under "File>New>Saved Search." You could use those "virtual folders" permanently, or as a temporary collection point from which you copy groups of messages to more permanent locations. I say "permanent" because I'm not entirely sure how Gmail handles these kinds of "Saved Search" folders. Or just use the basic search functionality.

I hope that made some sort of sense; it's been a long day and I'm half asleep, heh.

 

Hmmm... I did not quite get this part! Perhaps when you have a bit of spare time, you could explain this further?

Basically, all I am thinking of doing is to eliminate the labels on Gmail (having found that doing so does nothing to the email). This sends the emails (previously labelled) under the All Mails folder in Gmail but also under the Inbox and Sent labels in Gmail.

Now, in Gmail, if I choose not to show (and sync) the All Mails label, then in TB, it should not show up. In the same manner, since I would choose to show the Inbox and the Sent labels, they would show up in TB.

Next, I would create folders in TB (as previosuly discussed - not more than 3 or 4), into which I would put in all the mails that appear in the Inbox label (in Gmail) and folder (in TB). I would not do the same thing for the mails in the Sent label (in Gmail) and folder (in TB). I am assuming that because of the threaded view available in TB (3.0.4), the appropriate linkages would show and thus would make that last step redundant.

This is the plan. What do you think?

 

Heh, after re-reading it I agree that my last post didn't make quite as much sense outside of my sleep-deprived mind as I had hoped it would. Basically what I was getting at is that Thunderbird has a really excellent filtering system for searches. The added bonus is that you can save any given search as a "Virtual Folder" or "Saved Search." This will become a permanent folder in your folder list and will contain all messages meeting the given criteria. The idea here is that you can use those saved searches to divide up your e-mail as you start putting it into the folders that you have described. Basically

True.

Yup yup.

Yup, that should work just fine. I personally don't use the threaded view that much, but it should work well.

 

The Virtual Folder/ Saved Search system sounds good. I am gonna try it out ASAP. Thanks again! You have been really patient with me and thanks also for turning me on to TB. I like it quite a bit thus far and, to me, it feels more intuitive than WLM (at least what I saw of it on a friend's machine earlier today).

+1 Rep for all your help.

Cheers!

 

Glad I could help!

 

One more quick question:

When I am composing mails in TB, I notice that drafts are being automatically saved, which is good. But then, after sending the mail and when I go to Gmail's web interface, I find that multiple copies of those drafts are stored under the "Drafts" label in Gmail. Would you be able to tell me how to prevent this from happening? I have played around with the settings in TB, but to no avail.

Thanks

 

Ah, yeah, I should have mentioned that bit. The easiest way to line those up is by doing the following:

- Click on "Tools"
- Click on "Account Settings"
- Click on "Copies and Folders"
- Un-check "Place a copy in:" under "When sending messages" (not directly related to your question, but it is something that should be done)
- Under "Drafts" select "Other." Then click on the drop-down box next to it and select the "Drafts" folder under your Gmail account (Usually "E-mail Account Name -> [Gmail] -> Drafts).
- Click "Ok"

That should do it for you. You can follow that same process for "Archive" and "Junk mail" (send it to [Gmail] -> Spam). I really should just write up a full guide for TB3. I'll add it to my to-do, heh.

 

Thanks. Yeah. That would be a really cool thing especially because there is no "guide" for TB3. You may also want to consider one for the WLM (Wave 4) that is supposed to come out soon...one more thing to add to the "to do" list?

 

That would be an interesting project. I have to admit that I haven't used WLM all that much, but I'll definitely toss that on the pile.

 

I suggested WLM because (1) I just read a few hours back that the Wave 4 version is supposed to have seamless integration with Gmail (2) having just downloaded and installed my upgrade offer for Office 2010, I think the new WLM would integrate well with Office (plus the fact that the built in calendar is probably going to be more tightly integrated - hopefully, it would also connect with Gmail's calendar - though on second thoughts, I don't think it is that necessary; and, (3) with the release of Office Web Apps, it would make sense to have an option that integrates the core Windows/ Office apps.

Cheers!

 

You know, I'm liking the look of the new Wave 4 features. WLM may indeed be a viable alternative to Thunderbird for Gmail IMAP access. I'll definitely be checking it out when the beta drops; I know a lot of people that find Thunderbird somewhat too complex for their tastes. This sort of program could work out well for them. I'm just hoping that they keep the overall GUI as simplified as the one for the current WLM. I set it up the other day for a man in his 70s as an alternative to Outlook Express; the simpler the better in those sorts of situations.

 

Yeah...the only thing is that I hope MS does not keep changing the features, GUI from time to time. And that upgrades/ transitions are not disruptive. If they can manage this, then there is a case to move to WLM (Wave 4). I must say that I am looking forward to your "guide". BTW, any ideas as to when this is going to be released?

 

I'm pretty sure that Wave 4 Beta is supposed to hit sometime in the next week or so. I had found the exact date, but I've forgotten, ha.

 

Oh...wow! In that case, I guess we should be expecting the detailed (and may I add, faultless) guide from you immediately after!

I went looking for Outlook 2010 today, but was told that it is not currently being sold as a standalone in the country where I live currently. So, it seems like if I want a degree of integration across the Office 2010 suite, it will have to be WLM for the moment!

BTW, did you know, Gmail is going to offering an option to kill 'threaded' conversations? See this. Now one only hopes that Google starts using "labels" more like "folders".