Converting Audio files from WAV to something more compact?

I know this is not the correct site to ask this question but I am hoping that people will be at least willing to direct me to a good site -- if not able to give me an answer.

I have never learned how to use an MP3 Player -- despite the fact that I am on my second one (the first only got used as a radio during workouts)

SO now I have a COWON D2 and I am trying to use it. The manuals are woefully inadequate -- the forums are like a ghost town -- so I am asking for some help here.

The COWON came with jetAudio. I have some lectures burned on a CD that I want to listen to on my COWON while I go for cardio. I downloaded it on to my laptop -- it downloaded the files as WAV files.

As soon as I copied over to the COWON -- it filled up the space fast.

So I believe I need to convert the WAV files to MP3 files(?) to be more compact. Am I correct?

Well, jetAudio doesn't do that unless you purchase their premium version. Even if I wanted to, there are so many different warnings etc. before downloading this that and another on COWON's site that I cannot make heads or tales of. ANd the support forums are filled with threads by people whose COWON D2 ceased to function after the upgrades. I do not want to deal with that. I spent too much time over a week a go fixing other computer problems -- it is interfereing with my work.

Can anyone help?

 

New to this site and the PC-side of things (so new, I haven't even ordered the thinkpad I'm after), but fortunately not new to audio.

MP3 is a lossy format, and compared to the wave-file, it will – at 128kbps (normal mp3-bitrate) toss out ten ellevenths of the audio out.

The same is - of course - true for any lossy format "thinned" to 128kbps.

You can do one better, cutting the size of the wav file to 60 percent by using something like FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec). That way, you'll be future proofed. I don't mean you'll necessarily need to put that on the D2, but you can keep those on your computer as a back up of your audio, and then convert to Mp4 (aac) or Mp3 (Mp4 is the heir to mp3, and uses a better algorhithm, if you MUST use a lossy format).

Anyway, you can use something like iTunes to convert the wav-files to mp4s or mp3s, or you can perhaps check one of these out:

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/win/34038

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/win/10327482

Of course, there are many more out there, but it shouldn't be too difficult to find one that works for you.

Edit:
Btw, if you want to read up on an excellent forum with regards to your D2, go here:

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=86

 

And for a audio recording of a lecture it won't make a bit of difference. And on an MP3 player, in most circumstances, you won't hear the difference at all.

Sure FLAC is loss less, but unless you are playing back on a really good player with really good speakers in a really good listening environment, the difference in sound quality between FLAC and MP3 is hardly noticeable by most ears. (I, among other things, am an audio engineer. And I can, under the right conditions, hear the difference. But to be honest, in the places where I use my MP3 player I can't hear enough difference to warrant the increased file sizes that FLAC requires.)

BTW 128kbps may be a default, but it's not the ONLY choice. All players support a higher rate than that.

I use dbPoweramp for doing format conversions, it's not free but it does a good job, especially at batch file conversions.

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/win/15575


Gary

 

True, but I figured he'd be using the D2 for more than listening to lectures.

I work with audio on a daily basis as well, and if you need such a good environment and so great equipment to be able to tell the difference between flac and often "artifacted" (no, I'm not a native english speaker) mp3s lacking detail and pronounced t's and s's, something is wrong.
However, you seem to have deliberately avoided the part where I wrote

Anyway

Duh! When did I say it was "the ONLY" choice? I used "128kbps" as the most widespread bitrate to make a point and explain how much is tossed out without becoming too technical. It's called "an example".

Hmm, I do believe he asked for something free, when he stated this:

 

Thanks for the info and links. I do not want to use iTunes. I am on a learning curve here so I followed about 40% of what you wrote -- but I will come back as I become more familiar with stuff.

Since I am just starting to learn -- I think I will start with the freeware.

I do hope to start loading music and videos as well, eventually. Again here I understand about 1/2 half of what you write... but it is always like this in the beginning....

 

Yeah -- I do plan to use it for music, videos, etc. THis is just my most immediate need.

Do I look like a "he"? Tha's my picture in the avatar

I didn't qite say that explicitly but it certainly was imlied. And given that I am just starting -- I find it best to try free software first unitl I understand what I am doing. Then I can decide if I want to buy something and what.

So in the meantime -- as Iinch up the learning curve -- I discover that though jetAudio does not save files in to MP3 format -- it does offer the FLAC option as well as some others.

Here is the whole list:

Ape -- Monkey's Audio FIle Format
FLACC - Free Lossless Audio Codec
MPC -Musepack
OGG - Ogg Vorbis
RealMedia
Speex - Speex Encoder
TTA - True Audio
WAV
WMA -- Windows Media Audio 7
WMA -- Windows Media Audio 9
WV - WavPack

I don't understand all these variations. Are any of them more adept at some things rather than others?

And what would you suggest for music, video or lectures?

 

Oh, sorry about that.

It was an "asexual "he"" as in "he who cast the first stone" includes women too.

Yup, there is no need to buy something until you're aware of what you want, or if you even need those extras that you pay for.

Yes.
But you don't really want to go there, methinks. You want a widespread format for your D2 (and perhaps some other player or to send to your collegues and so on), so stick with either Mp3 or mp4 (also called AAC) when you dump to your player.

The flac-part was so you (with music et al) could have a lossless catalogue to encode to mp3, mp4 or whatever you might choose in the future without any loss going from format to format, instead of having all your stuff in, say, mp3s (with the toll on quality) and then using that lossy format to encode into another lossy format, losing even more information that way, if that makes sense.

To confuse you even more, I would suggest MP 2 for lectures as that format is better for voices - it has been used (and is still used) in the broadcast industry.

Anyway, here's my less confusing suggestion:

Convert the lectures' wave-files into either Mp3 or mp4 (of your choice).
Convert your music (when you rip them from cd's) into flac as a digital lossless (the closest thing I can come to an explanation of lossless withoutbeing technical is that it is akin to a zipped file. When unzipped, everything is there, not a letter, word or bit is missing).

Then, when you have your library, you then convert the flac-files (or any other lossless format - even wav, if you so choose) to the format of your choice.

Since you have the backup in a lossless format, it doesn't matter which format you choose here, as you can always redo from the lossless backup.

The lectures, of course, should be ripped to mono, and that means that if you usually listen to 128kbps (kilo bit per second) mp3s (as an example), you can make do with 64kbps in a mono-file, as it's just one channel, and you will get the same quality.


Edit:
I don't know about video – I don't rip movies and such, nor watch them much, unfortunately.


P.S. what made you go for the D2? I mean, it's a "tinkering" player in my mind (it's a great player - I have one too).

 

You can use something like MeGUI. Its free from adware, spyware, etc....

It is mainly for video-encoding, but has quite alot of preset profiles for encoding MP3, MP4, AC3, MP2....

You've got Lame, Aften, Nero AAC, Winamp AAC, FAAC, etc.

I'd just stick with lame MP3, with an average bitrate of 160kbps for decent sound and size. If you need very small size, you can get similar quality with Nero AAC adaptive bitrate @80kbps LC. (HE-AAC is not widely supported)

You can play around with stuff, but mp3/mp4 are fine unless you need extremely good sound quality -.-

 

Whoa, did I ever hit a nerve. I didn't say that anything you said was wrong. I only thought you were over complicating things for HER. (You might want to look at her avatar again.)

Comparing FLAC to 128 bit MP3 was a bit of a skewed comparison. But my point about this was that the OP asked about a way to compress some lectures for listening while she went for cardio. In that situation first converting to FLAC and then to MP3 is just overkill. If we were talking about some recording for archival purposes then by all means FLAC would be an excellent intermediate storage media. But she already has the lectures on CD. Going straight from CD to MP3 makes the most sense in THIS particular case.

My comments about most folks not being able to hear the differences in higher bit MP3 and a lossless format were not about what you or I can hear. It was about what MOST folks can hear. As audio engineers you and I better be able to hear the difference. But to most folks listening to stuff on their computer through their built in speakers, or some $20 pair they bought, with ambient noise in abundance aren't going to hear those differences. And the reality is that is precisely how most folks are going to listen. Why else do you and I listen to a mix on studio monitors and then again in the car on the way home, or on a cheap pair we (or at least I) have sitting next to the expensive monitor speakers?

Again, I didn't say or think what you wrote was wrong, just overly complex for someone with more modest needs.

Gary

 

I totally agree with you.

Again I totally agree with one small additional comment. Where you already have an archival copy of the music, lecture or whatever source, there is no need to go to the trouble of having a FLAC copy before going to MP3. If you start from a CD of the lecture, or a CD from your own music collection, or some other media where a full fidelity source will be readily available for you, skip the intermediate steps and go right to a format for your player. If you are making your ONLY possible copy of something, or the only copy you wish to keep, then by all means go to something like FLAC first. That way you have a full fidelity archival copy. Then convert to your player format.

Gary

 

I need some sleep (GMT+1 hour here), but to put it somewhat shortly:
A) the only "nerve" you hit was seemingly misconstruing on purpose what I said. But if you think the length of the post has anything to with "hitting a nerve", go read my other posts. You'd be surprised. I usually write pretty lengthy in english because I'm afraid that if I don't people might misconstrue what I say because of my lack of proficiency in english.

B) You apparently did it again, when you imply that I wanted her to go FLAC with her lectures. I rather explicitly said "music et al" after having talked about ripping music from CD's, so it should come as no surprise that at that point I was talking about music ripped from cd's as a digital back-up library.

C) It's (of course) okay for her to point that she's indeed a woman, but it's rather ridiculous when you join-in after the fact, and SHOUT that she's a woman, advising me to take a look at her avatar. Seriously, what was the point of that?

Anyway, I see no harm in giving additional advice if one reckons that it might be useful. I know she won't understand each and every thing I said, as it is indeed a bit technical, but as the thing before, it's utter nonsensical using that as an argument against what I said (or how I said it), when you yourself did exactly the same.

So, to get you up to speed, here's my recommendation once again:
Lectures: Whatever format she chooses - it's properly best to keep it in Mp3 or mp4 - mono.
Music: Lossless or uncompressed on your computer or external hdd
Music going to th D2, for emailing and that sort: Mp3 or Mp4 at the bit rate of her choice.

One thing, though: Unless you need to have a magnitude of lectures on the D2, why not forego the hassle of conversion, and buy, say, a 4GB or 8GB SDHC-card? In mono, recorded at 44.1 khz/16bit you can have more than 25 hours on an 8GB card. I don't know if that's an option, but it's an easy option if you have the card.

 

the jetAudio version comes with COWON D2 is more than enough.

when RIPing CDs, select OGG as destination format.

ALL cowon players supports OGG. and OGG is better than MP3.


unless you are an audiophile (which you dont seem to be),
no need to go FLAC (though ALL cowon players do support FLAC).

 

Also, you can try Media Monkey.

it works REALLY well with ALL cowon players.

 

My intent was only to suggest that introducing FLAC into an answer to a question about converting lectures into a compressed format was overkill for an obvious novice. I wasn't trying to misconstrue anything.

You and I agree that FLAC is an excellent archival format, where there is a NEED for an archival copy.

I reply to messages in threads as I read them. I corrected your use of he/she prior to reading her reply to you. Must you really be so testy?

Gary

 

I have already explained why I mentioned those things as well.

Good.

Hmm, sometimes it's needed.

 

Now, Boys, play nice...

I have learned a lot from your dialog on the technical matters. In fact you guys got me so up to speed I am now thinking of ripping my entire CD library onto some digital format -- I have a lot of space on my Hard drive -- but I might do it on a large flash drive (32 GB) and use FLACC for that purpose and then the MP2, Mp3 & MP4 for what I need on the Cowon.... unless a flash drive is not a good idea for an archival digital FLACC format?

 

Thank you for this succinct list...

Well, as per usual, I do my research when I buy -- I don't like to get something that I will feel hamstrung (limited) by. I just hope the learning curve will not be too steep and that I will get the time at some point to spend a day or so dwelling on it.

Necessity of listening to the lectures and the only time I could was when I do my cardio -- that today was the day (after an iRiver from 4 years ago-- never used -- and the COWON bought last July which I got proficient enough to download podcasts I needed.)

And thanks to Notebook Reviews and guys like you willing to spend the time to share your knowledge --- I can learn at a very fast pace...

Is OGG as compact as MP3?

My lectures in WAV would have used over 4 GBs. MP3 was 1/10 the space. And for lectures that was fine.

I am an audiophile -- but my system is 10 years old and some key components (like my high end CD player) need repair-- I haven't had time to update things - so my music listening has really suffered.

But doing this will motivate me to expand and update my system at home.

Can you share more about Media Monkey?

 

I usually convert my recorded wav's (PCM 16bit/48khz) to MP3 (160-190kbps CBR 44khz high encoding) for mp3 players. Quality loss isnt noticeable unless you have pro equipment and super ears.

If your really an audiophile then a lossless codec might be better. Personally I value more songs in my mp3 player than quality

Mp3 is a universal format and takes less space when archiving.

 

Woah woah woah people, you're getting into arguments and confusing the OP with information that's not even good.

If you're ripping from CD and want to store your music collection on a media hard drive, use dBpoweramp to rip CD's to FLAC -8 if you want a lossless (CD Quality) copy. Consider this your lossless source file for all future conversions and listening.

Then for your portable media player (MP3 Player, iPod, Cowan, etc) convert these to VBR V2 using LAME MP3 encoder if it's music. VBR MP3, at the V2 encoding switch (dBpoweramp lets you set that level, it's easy), is indistinguishable from lossless on all but high end equipment.

Convert to VBR V8 using LAME MP3 encoder if it's audiobook / spoken word / lectures. dBpoweramp will also convert to this directly from your WAV files if they're already on your hard drive.

That is all you need. V2 MP3 is perceptually transparent to me on my extremely high quality Shure SCL4 earphones and it's a smaller file size than 192kbit CBR.

Above all, don't listen to Persnickety's suggestions about MP2 and AAC, it's just simple bad advice.

 

Since when is the truth "bad advice? Unless, if course, you think that AAC (M4A/MP4) is Apple's proprietary format (M4P= An MP4 with copyright protection)., which it isn't , as you can see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp3#Audio_quality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-1_Audio_Layer_II

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding


Funny, huh?

Anyway,

Yeah, the learning curve might be a tad steep, but - as you say - spending a day with it focused will certainly do the trick – I'm sure of it.

Yes, it can be "thinned" to the same bit-rate - say 160 or 128, or even 64kbps.

Here's a comparison with audio samples:

http://www.xiph.org/vorbis/listen.html

I have to point out (I see this confusion a lot) that a bit rate of, say 128kbps (kilo bits per second) is just that: It's reading/playing 128,000 bits per second, no matter the format. Think of it like a pipe, if 128,000 gallons comes through it a second, it doesn't matter if its oil, water, gas, or milk.

True.

It kind of depends how large your library is. But from what you have said, I think your cd collection is too big to fit a 32GB disk. One hour of uncompressed wav at 16bit/44.1kHz (=cd) is 600MB. Now, if you use a lossless format to dwindle that down for your back-up library, you'll end up using 60% of that space instead. So each hour of music will take up just over 350MB (well, 360MB) giving you room for around 88 CD's, figuring they have around an hours worth of music on average.

However, non-mechanical backup is great, but as prices are right now, it might not be your best bet. My music (and audio in general) is on "old-school" harddrives, backed up by other hardrives (the audio I use for work is on the same drives, hence the doubling of everything).

 

Converting WAV files to something else: This original question ihas also been answered in the next thread down in this forum: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=355099

Just open the WAV file in Audacity and export it as ogg, mp3 etc. The uality will be more than adequate for anything other than 'perfect' music.

 

Unless you are worried about losing the original CD's or plan to get rid of them, I am not sure I see a point in converting them all to FLAC. If you are doing this to archive them, then it makes sense. How big of a library are we talking about?

I have started ripping a bunch of my old vinyl. I have over 1200 LP's and a finding as I go through this process, that some of the stuff I used to LOVE just doesn't hold the same appeal anymore. Did I really like Nina Hagen and Spandau Ballet that much in the late 70's and early 80's??? ...big ol' grin... I am using Audacity to remove the surface noise and a amazed at what a good job it does. It has a click-n-pop filter as well. Both have some artifacts but the results are much easier to listen to.

Gary

 

Do you have Windows Media Player? If so, you should have Windows Audio Converter. Under Tools, Plug-ins

 

Doesn't appear in mine under Vista w/SP1. Does it only convert TO wma format, or does it support wma to MP3?

Gary

 

I'm not quite sure how I got it. It may have to separately downloaded. In XP MCE it's also in Windows Digital Media Enhancements.

Good for MP3, WAV and WMA. Output files, MP3, WMA, WMA Lossless, WMA (variable bit rate)

 

OGG is much MORE compact than mp3.
and sounds better too.


well, media monkey is a media player that excels in the sides
jetAudio does not (i.e., media organization).

jetAudio is still the best for other fields but media money is in no way, "bad".
http://www.mediamonkey.com/

 

btw, there's a COWON D2+....releasing tomorrow.

 

I would like to second Nankuru. I use Audacity and convert .wav to .mp3 files (or .ogg) just fine. I however like 320kbs .mp3 files as a minimum for music. My suggestion is to take a few music pieces that you like and convert them at the different bit rates (128, 192, 256, 320, 192 variable, etc.) and listen to them. Pick a wide range of music with good sharp highs, deep base, good vocals, etc. It is useful to do your research (like you are doing) before you spend the time and convert everything to a specific format. Have fun with it!

 

That's like saying that a kilogram of feather weighs much less than a kilogram of lead.

64kbps is 64kbps. No matter which format (Mp3, Ogg, Mp2, or even wav at 64kbps takes up the same amount of space: Namely 64,000 bits per second.

For comparison an uncompressed wav from a cd (44.1khz @ 16bits /stereo) runs at 1411kbps.