Don't upgrade with windows 7 do a clean install

Ok, I'm starting this and I just about had an argument over this here, but people look, Take my 25 years of experience and expertise here,

CLEAN INSTALL is always best

see here: CW

you can do a clean install with the upgrade windows 7

here are two articles, and there are many more, about the problems with upgrade vs clean install:

Toms Hardware

and

PCW

Wanna debate upgrade vs clean install go ahead,
but I can keep posting from other experts and stories to back up that upgrading vista causes more problems and can cause an unstable system.

Vista is not Windows 7 and windows 7 is not vista if it was then this would never be a problem, there are significant changes in Windows 7, that is part of the reason for the problems.......................

If you ask which is better and still do the upgrade then have these problems then............. I told you so LOL

 

A clean install will obviously be better (ie. faster) than a upgrade install, but there's nothing inherently wrong with performing an upgrade install. Yes, there's a small chance of an incompatibility that can cause BSODs and other unwanted effects, but don't make it sound like your computer is going to blow up if you attempt an upgrade install.

 

Is this just a Vista > 7 issue? Because I upgraded from the RC to RTM Final of 7 and have not had any issues to date.

 

It's an old operating system > new operating system issue. Whenever you go from something old to something new, there's bound to be some guy out there who owns a part or has a driver that breaks the upgrade.

 

there shouldn't be any issues for any vista based os to upgrade (that includes win7 betas and such). but there can be. on a clean install, there never can be (except if you just don't have hw capable of running the os, but then, no older version of vista or win7 could have been there anyways).

 

I never posted such as above.

those are real articles not me. You can take issue with them, but to be honest there are hundreds of articles like these and thousands of posts on forums and most problems come from not doing a clean install.

Whats amazing is this has always been true since windows.

I have never seen a smooth over all upgrade from one major OS to another release.

Windows 7 is a major release its not Vista

thats the problem here, people are taking it lightly and since the water cooler talk is Windows 7 is just Vista but better is passed around people are thinking that clean install is not really better.

You can say what you will but the evidence supports my advice, clean install is better all around.

Question how can you deny the overwhelming evidence that upgrading is proving to cause system stability problems? The proof is a thousand fold.

Just because you do not have such a problem thousands are.

SO instead of telling people Upgrade is ok I think we, the people who are supposed to know and give good advice, should tell a sure method that will work 99% instead of lets say 80 or even 90%, you know how it feels when the install to save your files failed and you have a useless piece of crap on your hands? Been there and done that.

Much better to tell people

clean install after backing up files and have the install for your programs handy.

Of course my opinion but I have the proof of real life problems behind me now.

 

No offense but this makes no sense.

the only way they can have upgrade problems is to have Vista installed since Windows 7 will not upgrade XP you have to do a clean install with XP

so its vista people having problems.

Older computers not Vista compatible with vista drivers at least will have problems with 7 in some cases though.

 

You've got it!

 

You seem to be arguing with yourself (and triple posting). I'm not debating the fact that a clean install is better. It is. And it's easy to see why (how can you go wrong if you start on a clean slate?).

But you're making it sound like performing an upgrade install is a very risky proposition, which it is not. An upgrade install will work 99% of the time with no issues whatsoever. The lack of large architectural changes in the kernal make the Vista to 7 upgrade a very simple move, and the likelihood of encountering an issue is very slim.

 

You've been doing this for 25 years and we should take your advice, but in all that time you have "never seen a smooth over upgrade from one major OS to another release."

What, you've got maybe 10 installs over those 25 years?

You recommend HP and Gateway and you want us to take your seriously?

And finally, you create a thread that serves no real purpose other than to say, "hey, pay attention to me I am smarter than everyone else."

It is old school thinking to just rule out upgrades out of hand. Of course some upgrades fail--so do some clean installs.

But dismissing them out of hand ignores what a Vista or Windows 7 upgrade has become. Modern upgrades are image based rather than file based. That means settings and data are migrated out first, a clean install is "essentially" performed and then data, programs and settings are migrated back in.

People who test clean installs vs upgrade installs test the results of a clean install to the upgrade directly after the upgrade--before Windows 7 (or Vista) are able to self optimize.

Wait a month and there is statistically no difference between the two in most cases.


For 99 percent of upgraders an upgrade is just fine. For 1 percent, things will go bad. That's about the same as a clean install.

You can site all the experts (pc world? computerworld? --magazines written for intro to computer users), and put yourself up as one if you like, but that doesn't mean anything.

"Experts" often recite things that were true on previous operating systems from here to eternity and they become lore.

Do you have any idea how many machines I still see that have their pagefile set to 1.5 times ram? All posts like this do is freak out the barely informed.

 

Your Kidding right, more like thousands of installs over 25 years.

I started with a 4 bit tandy in 1979 and its 2009

I helped everyone at school and neighborhood, work (IT in one job) and home throughout the years.

I wrote how to's in the past

I don't like to give my CV on line but know what a little of what your talking about first here.

As I said experts like me agree on Clean install and upgrade causes potential problems thats the point of the post to be the voice in NBR that tells people "You do not want problems then clean install"

I wont address the comment about HP and Gateway ( I had a gateway and it performed well)

Another article

source

Oh I do not have to agree with you to be an expert.

 

i have done MANY MANY upgrades for my clients now. i had only ONE single issue with a upgrade from premium vista to premium 7 and THEN upgrade using anytime upgrade to professional i got stuck in a boot loop. i fixed it. no big deal. other than that i have yet to see one issue in over prob 50+ systems in doing a upgrade install. as long as you check comp first and see if any exisiting stuff will NOT work with win7 then imo there should not be a issue. if you have a problem lmk and ill be glad to see if i can help. i own a pc business and have in the field for almost 17 years now.

 

No one cares how many installs you've done, or how long you've been working with computers. Guess what? All of us, senior members, we all have a boatload of experience under our belts, however that doesn't change a thing in regards to installing Windows.

We have no issue with you stating that clean installs are better than upgrade installs.

What we do have issue with is that you are implying (heavily) that upgrade installs lead to nothing but trouble. This is absolutely NOT TRUE. An upgrade install is successful almost all the time.

 

my statement makes perfect sence.

upgrading from any vista or win7 should NOT give you any problems.

but it can, depending on your configuration.

doing a clean install should NOT give you any problems, and if you had successfully ran vista or win7 before on the machine, has no chance to give problems (as the hw is capable of running it).

but as win7 is heavily based on vista, espencially in it's setup routine and complete system structure, upgrading from a clean vista does NOT make any problems. all it does, is updating some system components, and done. the only issue that can be, is, that some app might fail to survive the upgrade (or some driver).

but the chance is very slim. win7 is not vista, yes, but it's vista for the most part.

still, clean install is best. but in the case of moving from vista to win7, not really needed in most cases.

 

As in this I'm addressing the post. (Now you know why I stopped posting on NBR you have to agree with people )

OK then we agree the best is clean install

I do think doing the upgrade is a bad idea, thats the purpose for the thread.

And I welcome debate but one post has already told me "They are the expert" Like a shut up and listen to them post.

that is not helpful and is just rude to say I do not know what I'm talking about.

I have to date done windows 7 upgrades and done windows 7 installs over 10 times already ( at least 7 different systems). I think I have a grasp of the procedures.

 

Ok I agree with most of what you say

but I posted an article that agreed with my take too many changes in 7 and its a major release not just a Vista upgrade.

Windows 7 is not Vista so there can be problems without a clean install

we will disagree on this.

 

My advice is not for professionals but for the average user.

What do you say to the thousands who had loops and problems with Upgrade?

If they did the clean install I argue the problems would be 10 fold less.

 

So all the complaints and articles are wrong? I have to tell you thats my problem, while not my experience, the average user is having problems. I have had 0 problems.

Hmm, if real world people have difficulties with install, I think we owe it to them give the average user the best install method.

 

What you're doing is fear-mongering. I can literally find a page on the internet to support ANY position or "fact" that I choose. I can find a page that says Dell is crap, don't buy Dell. I can find a page that says HP is crap, don't buy HP. I can find a page like this for every single manufacturer in existence. That doesn't mean that it's the typical or common result! You're taking the small percentage of people who have had issues upgrading, and saying to everyone - "this WILL happen to you", or at the very least "this will very likely happen to you".

That is fear-mongering. You're making a big hoopla about nothing.

 

I think a tweaked System will have problem with Upgrading.
But I still prefer a CLEAN installation.
CLEAN Insstallation = Sure without problem, faster and safer.

 

Wow. This is FUD if I ever saw it.

Upgrades cause stability problems? So what's new?

If stability was the only factor in computing, we would all be running real time operating systems. But stability is not the only factor in moving from one OS to another.

Like anything, there is a cost benefit to every action. For example, lets say your clean install requires 6 hours of your time, installing programs and rechecking your settings.

Lets say your upgrade would of took you an hour.

In this situation, the clean install would need to save you 3 minutes a day in productivity to equalize the time savings. And six hours is being conservative.

Lets say, you can be without your laptop in the time span needed to complete a clean install. You got too much work to do. Or you lack the technical expertise to troubleshoot any potential issues during a clean install.

These are all just a handful of factors that your "articles" fail to take into consideration. They assume computers are still being used by only engineers, geeks, and men.

The computer is now a consumer product, used by 4 year olds, grandparents, kids, and non geeks in general. Something that takes a geek six hours to complete could take two whole days for a non geek to complete. All it takes is one hiccup.

This forum, again, isn't just visited by enthusiasts, geeks, and engineers. We got a wide range of folks that visit this forum and just flat out assuming everyone is capable of completing a clean install in one day is uninformed.

The IT industry as a whole needs to grow up and realize not everyone who uses a computer thinks like a geek. Not everyone who uses a computer puts value into silly boot times and HW monitors. They want their computer to work and not take friggin hours of googling, matching model numbers to device drivers, to find answers on how to get it to work.

edit:
I won't even get started in explaining how a clean install can cause stability problems.

 

I have too much software installed on my systems to do clean installs unless absolutely necessary. I "upgraded" two of my systems to "7" already, and had no issues doing so.

 

The entire point of the thread seems to be a cry for attention.

Listen to me! Here's some articles that agree with me. I am the expert.

Sheesh. You want to help people--there are tons of threads where people have real problems. If you've got the knowledge, great.

This kind of thread, though, is as someone else put it, self promotional FUD

 

I'm not sure if using an upgrade disk to do a clean install is anything new. I've been doing that since Vista. I went from XP --> Vista doing a cleaning install with an upgrade disk multiple times. Why all of sudden people start making a big deal about upgrade disk?

 

:laugh:

I couldn't have said it better

 

So where is this supposed thousand fold proof? Do you have any REAL numbers to back that up? It sounds like a bit of hyperbole. To do so you need some numbers from the folks who have done an upgrade with good results. You do realize that the folks who don't have problems rarely, if ever, bother to post on forums?

Without a doubt a clean install is the better option. But in the case of Vista to Win7, I do think that Microsoft might have gotten the upgrade path right. I am not going to get into the whole Win7 is just Vista SP3 thing, except to say that while there are lots of code differences the underlying architecture of the OS has not changed at all from Vista to Win 7.

The issue with upgrade installs in the past from Win 3.1 to Win 95 to Win98, to Win XP to Vista have always had MAJOR underlying architecture differences leading to the the those hassles that upgrade installs brought on. With the architecture being the same, the Vista to Win7 upgrade path was much easier for the Microsoft engineers to create. They were able to basically use the same sort of mechanisms they used with a service pack upgrade. NOTE: before you jump to the conclusion I am calling Win7 a service pack, I am not! I am saying though that the upgrade installer could USE the service pack installation code to accomplish the Vista to Win 7 upgrade. They didn't need to create a whole new installation app like they had to do in any of the other new OS intros we've seen since Win 3.1

Gary

 

Here we go with the expert and experience card being played. There are other folks here with much longer experience than you saying your claim that no one should attempt an upgrade install from Vista to Win7 is total BS. Count me one of those. I owned the first computer store in Cincinnati when machines were sold as a bag of parts and was at this stuff for ten years before you played with the Tandy. And I am telling you that because the architecture changes from Vista to Win7 are nonexistent, the upgrade path is a smooth as any service pack. I am not saying here that Win 7 is A SERVICE PACK, I am not going to get into that semantic argument, but I am saying the upgrade is as smooth as any service pack install.

Gary

 

Now this post is really funny. Let's break it down a bit.

You stopped posting because you thought people had to agree with you. You can't seem to accept the fact that others have a very different opinion than you.

Yes we have ALL agreed on the first sentence. But your second one is wrong, your thread has been more than just you think it is a bad idea. Your posts have been a continued insistence that no one should even think of trying an upgrade. You don't even want to hear what others think about this. All you want is for folks to shut up and accept your "expert" opinion.

Oh you mean like the very first post in this thread where you start by telling all of us what an expert you are and all the experience you have? So where is your debate when we tell you that the architecture of the OS has not changed and that this fact alone is the reason why an upgrade is not likely to cause most users any issue. You say you want to debate, but fail to do so.

Wow that many huh? And based on that sample you are ready to tell the world to never attempt an upgrade. Man you really are an expert. We should all just leave now and let you tell folks what to do.

Gary

 

Other than the fiasco with the Win7 student edition upgrades can you point us to a definitive report of this "thousands" of folks who are experiencing this looping. There is a known issue (and resolution) with looping on that student edition, but beyond that I have not seen any similar reports from other quarters. If you have, please enlighten the rest of us.

Gary

 

Upgrading is not worth it. The system runs much smoother on a clean install.

What the next Windows installation (even Windows 7 new releases) should have is a step where it asks the user to put in a storage device of some kind and then asks the user what files does he want to backup and then does the backup before proceeding to do a full installation.

The installation should also note to the user that he might have to reinstall certain programs and from that point compile a list of his frequently used programs and back it up as a text file on the backup device as well as allow him to write it down.


If we can't ease the transition of an upgrade....why not just ease the transition of a clean install?

 

Wrong. It depends. As has been noted before, for some people a clean install involves a very significant amount of work, and for most people, an upgrade install seems to work just fine. If those two conditions are met, then there's a very good argument to be made for an upgrade install. YMMV, as always.

 

Because you have to assume that the basic user has no clue about anything. Have you seen people install software? They click "Next" as fast as they can, and that's about it. Do you really think people are going to slow down and read a guide on how to clean install an operating system, while in the process of doing it?

And as far prompting to save things to a "storage device of some kind", Microsoft does one better - if you clean install from inside Windows, all your old files are saved into a Windows.old folder that is then placed on your new desktop.

 

Do you recommend the same thing with a service pack release? While Win 7 is NOT a service pack release of Vista, the service pack type of update can be used to facilitate the in place upgrades because the underlying architecture of the OS has not changed from Vista to Win7. With older OS transitions Win3.1 > WFWG > Win 95 > Win 98 > Win 2k > Win XP > Vista this was never the case. The architecture changed so much that an entirely different mechanism had to be used to upgrade. And it was that sort of mechanism that most all of us, me included, suggested that folks avoid like the plague. A blanket statement that "The system runs much smoother on a clean install" could be made and backed up. But with a service pack and a service pack LIKE upgrade that we have here, the blanket statement doesn't apply. This doesn't imply that a upgrade will work for everyone, no more than a claim that a service pack release would work for everyone. It just implies that for a lot of folks the in place up grade will work just fine with NO decrease in smoothness at all.

Gary

 

well to be honest i would always recomend a clean install i do realise for some this is not practical due to so many different reasons.

i will not go into it any further as it has all been covered by various other posters.

but as some statements by the OP are blatently misinforming people may i suggest that it might be an idea to close this thread... or the OP at least accept that his post is somewhat misinforming others and to edit it?

just the way i see it

cheers

 

I'll be trying the clean install of XP, and then immediately use the updrade disk from HP (hopefully it'll come this week or next). After this, I will be posting my results. And maybee that'll satisfy some people here.

 

You can't perform an upgrade install from XP to 7.

 

See this what I mean about bad information being perpetuated -- no insult to you deathwinger.

That is essentially what Windows Vista and Windows 7 do now--except it backs everything up to a folder called windows.old. It does not prompt you for what you want to back up, but backs up everything.

Some of the odd things that occur during upgrades -- student edition notwithstanding--result from poorly written programs more than anything to do with the windows install routine.

 

Like I said, I'll try it and post my results.

 

No point in even trying. Microsoft clearly states that you cannot upgrade from WinXP directly to Win7. It is really that simple.

Gary

 

You can't do it. It's just not possible. The "Upgrade" option will be grayed out when you run it in XP.

 

It seems to me that his intention is to use the upgrade disk after performing a clean install of XP.
He did not say, the way I see it, that he will try an upgrade from XP to Win 7
He wil try to use the upgrade disk. Now I hope it will be for a clean install

 

I just performed an upgrade to Win 7 Pro on my Sony z-790. I want to test and check this OS but I do intend to perform a clean install later on.
I use Windows since its inception in 1987-1988 (since then I love Ubuntu a lot but not for the lack of applications).
Sony mail to me a package including Win 7 and a "companion disk" for the new drivers under Win 7.
The upgrade was astonishingly smooth and easy.
The average user (I am at the low end of this category) will have no problem for the transition through the upgrade. If it fails or if it is difficult to install it the issue is either with the computer or most probably with the user.
The only issue with the Sony package is that you cannot install the drivers from the Sony site. You have to use the "companion disk" without the possibility of selecting the items. In this respect Sony is a disappointment. But it's another story.
That is why I intend to perform a clean install - from the upgrade disk - and then select the drivers from Sony website.

According to my own experience and to what I read on this very valuable forum it is unfair to scare and to try to influence the average user on the risks of performing an upgrade. In my opinion it shows at best a lack of responsability and maturity. At worst a deficit of intellectual honesty.

So far I am not impressed at all by Win 7. Somebody almost suggested that it's a Vista service pack. I believe that it is the right definition of Win 7.

 

It's not really a service pack of course, but because the architecture hasn't changed, it is as smooth as one.

Thanks for weighing in with your notes on this.

Gary

 

Yes my original post did state that I was gonna do a clean install and then the upgrade.

 

Just to clarify one last time...

You cannot upgrade install from XP to 7. You can clean install from XP to 7. I have no clue what you mean about clean install then upgrade.

 

Not directly at least. You could XP to Vista to 7. Come to think of it.... I think I could do that with one of these machines.....

 

I guess you didn't comprehend or see my orginal post on page 4.

 

Oh we saw it all right, but we can't comprehend why you'd bother to install XP, if you intend to then immediately clean install Win7. What is the point of the first step?

Gary

 

what a thread

i actually have had to reboot my upgraded w7 quite a lot since. is there some log i can access to see why my computer requires reboots? i'd like to know what is failing. i've had strange pop up messages come up and i had one instance where any web browser wouldn't load a new site and then when i closed it down i couldn't access any other program.

 

Nice thread lol.

IMO, upgrade from Vista SP2 (with latest updates) TO win7 (with latest drivers) should be smooth. Exceptions may arise obviously. It basically depends on the user's experience with installing and setting up operating systems.

I really don't think the big M can mistake here with their flagship product. I mean how can you say that upgrade to win7 isn't as good as clean install. MS must have tested vista to 7 upgrade in hundreds of environments taking care of all possible complexities that may arise. They didn't just dropped an upgrade disk in the market.