Have you claimed your free upgrade to Windows 10?

I run Windows 8.1 and I never see the Metro interface either, I boot directly into the Desktop we know and love

I use Classic Shell, and it hides as much of Windows 8.1/10 Metro interface as you like. I have it all turned off now since I uninstalled the Metro apps with CCleaner.

Classic Shell
http://www.classicshell.net/

"What is Classic Shell?

Classic Shell™ is free software that improves your productivity, enhances the usability of Windows and empowers you to use the computer the way you like it. The main features are:

• Highly customizable start menu with multiple styles and skins
• Quick access to recent, frequently-used, or pinned programs
• Find programs, settings, files and documents
• Start button for Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1 and Windows 10
• Toolbar and status bar for Windows Explorer
• Caption and status bar for Internet Explorer

Classic Shell has been in active development for 6 years and has tens of millions of downloads.

The latest stable version of Classic Shell is 4.2.5 "

You can roll back and use Windows 8.1 / Classic Shell just like Windows 7

 

Thanks, I also used Classic Shell under W8.1, since even to this day I have no idea how to get to all the "normal" programs without it. I guess with some hard work you could fix all those issues in W8, but as they say, first impressions are the most lasting and from the beginning I didn't like it and didn't want to bother with it and spend time looking for fixes. On the other hand, to my surprise, Win 10 seems fine, I have no problem with it and even metro apps have resize/close buttons, so I may actually use some of them, maybe. I would actually recommend Win 10, if it wasn't for telemetry and advertising. Now I figure MS people don't read this forum, but here is my suggestion anyway: MS people, if you're so dumb, you can't function without copying somebody else (Google/phone business model in this case), at least also copy the option to allow customers to fully pay for software and being able to fully opt out from advertising, telemetry and other garbage, which seems to be now biggest problem for Win10. Personally I would rather have this option, pay full price for copy of Win10, with guarantee of no telemetry, advertising etc., than deal with this garbage. Now, in the future, if I have to pay for the copy of Windows 10 and still have advertising, telemetry to deal with, I seriously will look for alternatives.

 

You bring up a point I was saving for when the "freebee" status of Windows 10 expires.

I hope MS doesn't think people are going to allow this invasion of privacy, fine grained down to keystrokes and file access on our own local files, after they start asking us to pay full price for it again?

Can you imagine if MS were charging for Windows 7, 8.1 at $250 a pop, and demanding full access to our private activities on our private Personal Computers?

People would think MS are nuts. No way would anyone have allowed that.

So, what changed? A free OS? A free OS that is now going to transition back into a Full Pay OS.

Do they really think the privacy invasion crap is going to fly when people are asked to pay full price for it too?

People will think they are nuts. No way will anyone allow that.

Wake up you Windows 10 "owners", you shouldn't be Agreeing to the EULA and allowing it now.

 

Probably won't be upgrading to windows 10 anytime soon. Currently using windows 8.1, it's fine. Not sure why most people hate it (performance aside), its interface is to my liking.

just my curiosity, what is your problem/inconvenience with windows 8.1 in everyday use? I've been using it for a few months now and found it more convenient than windows 7 for me. I just pin every shortcut that I need to access quickly on the Start menu (more than I could on windows 7) and it looks like my phone. I don't like having any icon on my desktop (aesthetic). On windows 7, I had some kind of dock that could auto hide itself but now I don't need it.

I guess you can't find installed programs like the search in windows 7 any more but I'll just go to my C: drive and search for the program there so no biggie. Biggest loss is no aero. And the App list is kinda useless (ugly as hell too). Who in their right mind would use that? This ain't no tablet.

 

As annoying as it may be, people will allow it and are in fact allowing it right now as we speak.

Ashley Madison has seen unprecedented growth since the data breach last year, and that's about as private as private gets. Thus, I can only conclude that people actively enjoy having their deepest secrets laid bare for the whole world to see.

 

Sorry man, this is a "stupid" example.

Ashley Madison got hacked. They promise to keep your things private, and they failed once. But, they promise to do better next time.

Microsoft is promising to use and share your private data and private activities with 3rd parties and the government.

You agreed to give MS complete and total access at any time to your private files and activities without further notice, and allow MS to disclose whatever they want with whoever they want when you agreed to the EULA that allows you to install Windows 10.

Totally different.

Are you saying that there are idiots out there, that even with advance warning, will still do "stupid" things in the face of certain public disclosure?

Why yes, yes they will

 

What percentage of Windows users read EULAs? I'd be surprised if it was even 0.1%.

For the other 99.9%+, what a EULA says or does not say and what they agreed or did not agree to is completely irrelevant to them. Expecting them to stand up for their rights which they aren't even aware of is like expecting a miracle. Simply put, it ain't gonna happen - regardless of whether or not people are paying $250 for Windows 10, they still won't read the EULA. Which is really no different from XP/Vista/7/8, really. I mean, how many of the people who downgraded from Vista to XP or from 8 to 7 took advantage of their EULA rights to get a refund for the preinstalled Windows license?

As an aside, I should mention that there are multiple EULAs for Windows 10. My EULA for instance says nothing about the collection of information and is in fact completely different from the (retail) EULA you're referring to.

 

Please post your Windows 10 EULA(s), saved to a file during installs?

Please put it in a spoiler tag, so as to not take up too much room. The whole thing is huge

Spoiler

Let's take a look at it

 

That's why we disclose the details here, and everywhere else on the internet. To make people aware. It's obvious that if they don't know they can't choose.

We want them to have a chance to know. That's why we have posted EULA text and links to the public Microsoft site where they disclose the EULA.

Let people know by telling them, don't assume they know or have been told already.

Microsoft Privacy Policy
https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/

Microsoft Services Agreement
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/servicesagreement/default.aspx

Law Enforcement Transparency Report
https://www.microsoft.com/about/business-corporate-responsibility/transparencyhub/

Microsoft is updating these documents, making changes due to our complaints about their privacy infringements.

Here is a quote from an earlier version, quoted from this article back in July 2015:
http://www.techworm.net/2015/07/by-...you-are-allowing-microsoft-to-spy-on-you.html

"We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services."

Today on Microsofts online version, it reads:

"Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails in Outlook.com, or files in private folders on OneDrive), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to..."

Notice how MS now specify Outlook.com and OneDrive vs what could only have been interpreted earlier as residing on your local drive on your PC. It is a welcome, but small step in the right direction.

The fact that MS will read your emails, files in private folders in your Onedrive, and turn them over to whoever they like, is essentially the same problem as before.

If you are using OneDrive to sync your private files between your PC's, and use OneDrive as backup for your local private files. You are copying everything private to not private storage.

That disclosure statement includes a list, read slowly and carefully:

Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails in Outlook.com, or files in private folders on OneDrive), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to:

1. comply with applicable law or respond to valid legal process, including from law enforcement or other government agencies; https://www.microsoft.com/about/business-corporate-responsibility/transparencyhub/
   
2. protect our customers, for example to prevent spam or attempts to defraud users of the services, or to help prevent the loss of life or serious injury of anyone;
3. operate and maintain the security of our services, including to prevent or stop an attack on our computer systems or networks; or
4. protect the rights or property of Microsoft, including enforcing the terms governing the use of the services - however, if we receive information indicating that someone is using our services to traffic in stolen intellectual or physical property of Microsoft, we will not inspect a customer's private content ourselves, but we may refer the matter to law enforcement.

How do they do this? Do they run through all the activities and files on our PC's to determine the threat, like an Anti-Virus scan looks at all of our files? What constitutes a situation where they will take such actions?

The telemetry data is still being generated, collected, and sent to Microsoft.

Spoiler

Telemetry & Error ReportingTelemetry & Error Reportingmaintelemetryerrorreportingmodule
Summary
As you use Windows, we collect diagnostic and usage data that helps us identify and troubleshoot problems, improve our products and services, and provide you with personalized experiences. This data is transmitted to Microsoft and stored with one or more unique identifiers that can help us recognize an individual user on an individual device and understand the device's service issues and use patterns. There are three levels of diagnostic and usage data: Full, Enhanced and Basic. You can select which level of diagnostic and usage data to provide, but some diagnostic data is vital to the operation of Windows and cannot be turned off.

During Windows setup, opting to "Send full error and diagnostic reporting to Microsoft" sets your Diagnostic and usage data setting to Full. If you don’t choose to "Send full error and diagnostic reporting to Microsoft," Diagnostic and usage data collection will be set to Enhanced. You can adjust your Diagnostic and usage data collection level at any time in Settings. We recommend that you select Full for the best Windows experience and the most effective troubleshooting.

Basic data is data that is vital to the operation of Windows. This data helps keep Windows and apps secure, up-to-date, and running properly by letting Microsoft know the capabilities of your device, what is installed, and whether Windows is operating correctly. This option also includes basic error reporting back to Microsoft. Basic data includes:

• Configuration data, including the manufacturer of your device, model, number of processors, display size and resolution, date, region and language settings, and other data about the capabilities of the device.
• The software (including drivers and firmware supplied by device manufacturers), installed on the device.
• Performance and reliability data, such as how quickly programs respond to input, how many problems you experience with an app or device, or how quickly information is sent or received over a network connection.
• Network and connection data, such as the device’s IP address, number of network connections in use, and data about the networks you connect to, such as mobile networks, Bluetooth, and identifiers (BSSID and SSID), connection requirements and speed of Wi-Fi networks you connect to.
• Other hardware devices connected to the device.

Enhanced data includes all Basic data plus data about how you use Windows, including Microsoft and third party software (apps, drivers, etc.) that runs on Windows. This data includes frequently or how long you use certain features or apps, which apps and features you use most often, how often you use Windows Help and Support, and which services you use to sign into apps. This option also lets us collect diagnostic data that includes the memory state of your device when a system or app crash occurs, which may unintentionally include parts of a document you were working on when a problem occurred. If you select this option, we'll also be able to provide you with an enhanced and more personalized Windows experience.

Full data includes all Basic and Enhanced data. It also turns on advanced diagnostic features that can collect additional data from your device, which helps us further troubleshoot and fix problems. When devices experience problems that are difficult to diagnose or replicate with Microsoft's internal testing, Microsoft will randomly select a small number of devices, from those at the Full level and exhibiting the problem, from which to gather all of the data needed to diagnose and fix the problem (including user content that may have triggered the issue). If an error report contains personal data, we won’t use that information to identify, contact, or target advertising to you.

Windows error reports help Microsoft and Microsoft partners diagnose problems in the software you use and provide solutions. We provide limited portions of error report information to partners (such as OEMs) to help them troubleshoot products and services which work with Windows and other Microsoft product and services. They are only permitted to use this information to repair or improve those products and services.

If the text of the disclosure changes, does the telemetry data being generated, collected, and sent to Microsoft change?

The number of scheduled tasks reporting back to MS that are stopped by the various tools available are surprisingly high, not just for Windows 10, but also for Windows 7/8.1 and the Office Products.

Although MS is disclosing interesting and alarming details in their published text, and they are changing that text over time, how does that really improve the privacy invasions already in place since release?

Spoiler

Links listed in the Microsoft docs, check them all out

Your Microsoft Account
https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/#mainmicrosoftaccountmodule
https://account.microsoft.com/

Manage Bing and Cortona
https://www.bing.com/account/general

You can manage what data Cortana uses, and what it knows about you in Cortana Settings and Notebook. More about the individual features, and how to manage them can be found at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=522360.

Mange Skype
https://login.skype.com/login

Manage Xbox
http://live.xbox.com/MyXbox/Profile

Manage Microsoft Store
https://www.microsoftstore.com/

Microsoft.com Profile Center
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=317027

Microsoft Developer Public Profile
https://connect.microsoft.com/profile.aspx

Manage or Block Flash Cookies
http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/flashplayer/help/settings_manager.html

Information on how to Manage Silverlight Storage
https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/#mainsilverlightmodule

You can disconnect a social network account from your personal Microsoft account at any time at https://profile.live.com/services

You can also find more information on Microsoft's commitment to protecting your privacy at http://www.microsoft.com/privacy

To learn more about the Safe Harbor program, and to view our certification, please visit http://www.export.gov/safeharbor (double check, I think Safe Harbor is no longer in effect, replaced with a new agreement)

Parents can change or revoke the consent choices previously made, and review, edit or request the deletion of their children's personal data. For example, parents can access their personal Microsoft account and click on "Permissions." For users of Minecraft and other Mojang games, parents can contact us at https://account.mojang.com/terms#contact.

Finally, Microsoft services often contain web beacons...You can opt out of data collection or use by some of these analytics providers by clicking the following links:

• Flurry Analytics: http://flurry.com/legal-privacy/end-user-opt-out
• Google Analytics: http://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout (requires you to install a browser add-on)
• Kissmetrics: https://kissmetrics.com/user-privacy
• Mixpanel: https://mixpanel.com/optout
• Nielsen: http://www.nielsen-online.com/corp.jsp?section=leg_prs&nav=1#Optoutchoices
• Omniture (Adobe): http://www.d1.sc.omtrdc.net/optout.html
• Visible Measures: http://corp.visiblemeasures.com/viewer-settings
• WebTrends: https://ondemand.webtrends.com/support/optout.aspx

There are more links in the other docs linked at the top level, and may be of interest to you as well.

 

To search for a program in 8/8.1 hit the windows key and start typing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

That's fine as long as it finds what you want. Few days ago I updated one of my own laptops into 10, then I wanted to change system sounds to no sound.

I typed in "sound" - no results?
I typed in "sounds" - no results...
I typed in "system sounds" and I got what I wanted. (description is "change system sounds")

That was in fresh install of english Win 10 Pro.

I assure you, search works even worse on localized versions of windows. Sometimes it won't even find "notepad", instead I need to type in localized name for the software. Finding Control panel settings with search is even more frustrating at times.

In windows 7 I could be using localized version but still enter all my search keywords in english and it would work. Which is nice, since I have faced everything from german, norwegian to russian OS, in addition to usual english, finnish and swedish ones in my customers computers.

 

I think it only works if you find something either in the app list or pinned to start. So not very useful.

just tried pinning my league of legends launcher from G: drive to Start, lol.launcher.exe. Before that, it returned nothing when I typed in lol.

Also, tried finding HJsplit. Typed in split, no result. Only work if I type in hj. I remember windows 7 would return tons of thing as long as they had "split" in their name.

 

[QUOTE="Kaze No Tamashii, post: 10202134, member: 659171"

just my curiosity, what is your problem/inconvenience with windows 8.1 in everyday use? I've been using it for a few months now and found it more convenient than windows 7 for me. I just pin every shortcut that I need to access quickly on the Start menu (more than I could on windows 7) and it looks like my phone. I don't like having any icon on my desktop (aesthetic). On windows 7, I had some kind of dock that could auto hide itself but now I don't need it.
I guess you can't find installed programs like the search in windows 7 any more but I'll just go to my C: drive and search for the program there so no biggie. Biggest loss is no aero. And the App list is kinda useless (ugly as hell too). Who in their right mind would use that? This ain't no tablet.[/QUOTE]

I don't want to go off topic too much, but to sum it up: For some strange reason I bought Win 8 the day it came out, first time ever and :
1. ugly metro interface didn't create icons for a lot of my installed programs, how do I start them? Searching? I don't know all the names, besides programs like Peachtree has 8 EXE files in it's main directory, they all start with peach and I think peachw.exe is the one that starts it up, but why I even have to put mouse away and reach for keyboard? Classic Shell to the rescue, but I think there is something fundamentally wrong with operating system that needs third party software to actually work from the beginning.
2. every time I moved mouse to right edge of screen, I got metro interface, with no easy way back - look for desktop icon, often couldn't find it etc. Maybe "escape" button, nope. It's the window key, not every computer has.
3. Metro apps keep on popping messages "there is new program to view pics" etc. I click on it, it can't open half the pictures I have. How do I get out of this? no resize button, no close button, no menus, empty full screen, are we back to DOS?
I'm sure there are workarounds and I tweak every system I own to my liking, but not like this. My wife hates Metro interface and it gets in her way also.
But going back to Win 10, the fact it's called 10, not 9, the fact they fixed metro apps (by bringing back resize, close, fold buttons), bringing back start button and getting rid of the whole Metro interface (did they? I have not seen it, except for small start window) even MS admits Win 8 wasn't working for most people. I think WIn 10 is what Win 8 should have been from the beginning and I actually like Win 10, for the 4 days I've been using it I had no problems what so ever. Never got lost, never wondered how to get to the real control panel, or how to shut down metro program without searching internet for solution.
Actually, I think with Win10, MS did unintended service to PC community, I've been relying on build in firewall and never even thought about traffic going in and out, but now I'm thinking of installing separate firewall, monitor and block all the traffic except the one I explicitly authorize, which should make my computer safer from MS and viruses at the same time.

 

well, the reason I asked because I want to be convinced to upgrade (of course after some current issues with windows 10 are fixed/changed) since it won't be too long before the "free upgrade" offer from MS is over.

I didn't tweak any thing on my windows 8.1 but have only ran into some of your problems only once or twice. With the exception of the "moving mouse to right edge of screen." That is kinda annoying but only when I'm using touchpad (guess there's some problem with the touchpad). When using mouse, it doesn't even always show up the first time I move my mouse to the right edge.

 

I used touchpad all the time, so I would get metro jump out at least few times a day, probably most annoying thing about Win 8 by far. As I said before, I actually like Win 10, it has metro but is not intruding, it has start button with list of programs, neatly alphabetized, so I think it works great if you have all the drivers. The telemetry, which I think Win 8.1 has as well, maybe to lesser degree, can be inhibited at least partially, using tools provided here and other forums. The last issue, forced upgrades, I would just manually shutdown update service and be done with it, if wanted to update, just enable the service or use program for manual updates and now, that MS has website listing Win 10 updates and what they do, more or less, you could actually download KB and update all by yourself on your terms.
Now, here is the way I think: It's a free update with 30 days to backout. At some point you may have no choice (for example buying new computer with newest hardware not supported by older windows) but to switch to 10, why not now? At least you'll have some personal experience to make a call to stay with Win 8 or W10.
Of course "don't fix it if it ain't broken", sometimes comes up as the best thing to do. For me it was easy, I have 2 laptops, one with dual boot, so it was just a matter of finding free time and it took 3-4 hours for the process itself.

 

US Department of Defense will put Windows 10 on 4 million computers
Blair Hanley Frank | Feb. 18, 2016
http://www.cio-asia.com/tech/indust...e-will-put-windows-10-on-4-million-computers/

Spoiler

The U.S. Department of Defense is going to standardize 4 million computers on Windows 10, a significant endorsement for Microsoft's latest operating system.

It marks the largest announced deployment of Windows 10 in an enterprise setting to date. The goal is to have all of the DoD's computers that are currently running older versions of Windows upgraded to Microsoft's new OS within a year.

That's an incredibly fast timeline for an organization of the Defense Department's size, especially since Windows 10 hasn't yet been on the market for a year. It's a move to streamline the department's IT infrastructure, which is increasingly important as a key means of protecting from digital attacks.

Wednesday's news is also a sign of the government's confidence in Windows 10, and will be a signal to other organizations about where the enterprise PC market is going. It's unclear yet how much the migration will cost the Defense Department, which spends around $44 billion every year on IT and cybersecurity.

In addition to the deployment news, Microsoft's Surface line of products has been certified to meet the Defense Department's security and interoperability requirements. That means it's easier for the tablets to be worked into government deployment plans for new technology, and could mean more business for Microsoft, especially as the DoD upgrades to Windows 10.

Those 4 million DoD devices will help Microsoft reach its goal of getting 1 billion devices worldwide running Windows 10 by late summer of 2018.

It should be able to make that goal, especially since Gartner has predicted that roughly half of all enterprises will start their Windows 10 roll-outs this year.

I guess they will get a special dispensation version of Windows 10 Enterprise, the one that *really doesn't* send telemetry

Spoiler

 

All it says is this:



Of course, this is just a reference to the real EULA, which I imagine is different for everyone. In my case - which is actually *not* a volume license, just to give you an idea of how many potential situations exist - the actual EULA says absolutely nothing about Windows 10 whatsoever.

 

I hope you guys do understand that EULA is written by lawyers to cover just about any possible situation one could possibly imagine, under different laws of states and countries in the most broad way possible. If you want fast, accurate speach recognition, you need access to microphone, you need to record it, send to MS servers for decoding and send it back. If you want your emails read back to you (not even sure if it's possible, just an example of why something could be included in EULA) then you would have to agree for Win 10 to access and read your e-mails. If you want to store your pictures in cloud drive, you'll have to permit Win 10 to access and read your personal pictures or camera, etc etc.It doesn't necessarily mean MS will read your pictures for viewing and amusement of their employees. I'm not a big fan of MS, I never liked telemetry, never used digital assistants even on the phone, I don't even have Facebook account, but some people do and therefore maybe EULA has to be broader, than we would like. But I don't think it's the end of the World as we know it and some things we will find ways around it and some we will just have to accept. And for the record I did use most of the tools to shut down telemetry since I don't use any extra services and I turn off auto updates as long as I can remember, since they never happen at the right time.
BTW I think telemetry data would be encrypted, but does anybody actually know what is transmitted? Or is it all just a speculation.

 

MS has thus far neglected to release the source code for the Telemetry modules

So your speculation as to the "encrypted telemetry data" is as good as ours.

All I know is, no traffic should be leaving my computer and going anywhere without notice or under my control.

No traffic to MS should be happening, at all. Nothing. I don't want it to happen, I don't need it to happen, so why is it happening?

And, why do I need to work at finding the leaks to plug on my own with 3rd party software and firewall rules to block it?

 

Verify license, establish network, check for updates, show weather and news flash, report system errors for analysis to issue fixes would be just few sample reasons for traffic to MS servers.
Does MS routinely releases source code for all of it's programs and telemetry is an exception, or they don't as a rule? I actually don't know, just asking.
I don't like telemetry myself as much as the next guy, but to provide some of the services they're trying to do, some telemetry may be necessary and I know that from my Android phone and from Google searches.
Actually the solution to telemetry may be Enterprise version instead of free upgrade version, it's supposed to have more options to turn telemetry off.
BTW I'm not sure if I already mentioned it: all my Win 7 computers have similar telemetry services as Win 10 install.
And I agree with you 100%, installing third party programs from sources not very well known could be potential security risk.

 

I can understand licensing and update checking, but "establish network", weather and news updates? Sorry MS, I have my own network which I can connect to and I check other sources for that sort of information...

 

My issue and I'm betting that of quite a few people is not with the telemetry itself, but what is being transmitted. I'm all for sending error data to Microsoft as long as it is anonymous, to check for updates, etc. What I am less cool with is gathering data that can be sold to advertising services being built in the OS. An OS should allow you to operate your computer and send data to make that OS more stable and so on, not gather data on your internet browsing habits, etc. Even then, there needs to be a explicit and simple way to turn off any kind of telemetry for good. Even if the company has no nefarious purposes in gathering data from you, the potential for screw up is there and sometimes the consequences can be pretty intense, so it's only fair that we should eb able to turn it off.

As for releasing source code, it's not something Microsoft does often. They did for very old pieces of software, they obviously do when they participate in open source projects and sometimes release some things anyways, but the last one is more an exception than the norm.

 

Not for me, I don't use automatic thingee's that can interrupt my work or performance. I don't even use that stuff outside of MS. BS waste of time.

Manual updates are about the only thing I need, browsing MS websites and downloading documentation and files as found and needed, nothing not under my own interactive control.

The same for any other application I download. Turn off the push notifications, turn off the autoupdate checks, turn off the calls home for "helping them keep the application running, BS".

No uncontrolled connection back to MS or another other company is desired, nor tolerated.

Have you ever supported commerical networks?

If you had, you wouldn't be talking such nonsense.

 

Like it or not MS trying to compete with Google with providing similar services, kind of digital assistant we have on Android and probably Cphone.
Seamless transition from phone to computer (let's say you chat on the phone riding home, you get home and continue chatting without interruption now on your laptop) will require a lot back and forth traffic to keep it that way. It"s clear to me, since release of Win 8 that MS is trying to integrate phone, tablet and computer into one device, running the same OS just with different physical shapes with all data stored in cloud. To make it all happen will require a lot of back and forth traffic. Agree with that or not (personally I don't) this is their grand vision and partial reason for extra telemetry.

've been doing manual updates as long as I remember. Main reason: my computer runs only when I'm using it, when I'm using it, it's not good time to do updates, unless I say so. I shutdown update service, will do manual update once a month after reading update info web page (finally, thank you MS), problem solved for me, not much different than what I do with Win 7. And actually I used to have third party firewall that would block any inbound/outbound traffic unless I would manually allow it go. Not sure why I stopped using it, but it's time to start using it again. Any suggestions for good firewall? Now that we solved all the problems, I think I'll enjoy Win 10, seems half decent. Now if I only could make WMC work in it, or find capable replacement (for playing/pausing/recording cable only, don't care about anything else) I could upgrade all my computers to Win 10.
BTW I found MS EULA on my computer in C:$Windows~WS\Sources\Panther

Quote
Have you ever supported commerical networks?
If you had, you wouldn't be talking such nonsense.
End of quote

I"m sorry what are you talking about?
If you're running commerical networks, then you're an expert and this whole telemetry should be a piece of cake to shutdown and you should be telling us how to do it. Personally I don't use a lot of those services either, but others may do and things like stock quotes, weather right inside start menu, even I can find useful. Damn I just noticed market went down again, now I'm depressed, bye.

 

No one has to upgrade. I still have many laptops running XP and they work just as good as my W7 laptops so why upgrade to W10 ??? M$ wants you to believe you need to upgrade. I tried W10 and I am back running W7 now .

 

Well, XP is no longer officially supported with security updates for one thing... Probably not an issue for non-internet connected systems but not really practical for the majority of people who do require web access.

With this said, by the time that Windows 7 (And especially 8.1) near their end of support cycles, the privacy issues with Win10 may have be rectified - at any rate, there will be more information available to make a decision. Unless my requirements change, I can't see anything, currently, which demands an upgrade to 10.

 

That does not worry me at all since most of them only fill up your hdd with useless crap. Where I live there are many low income families that can't afford to buy new laptops like most of us. They buy used and most of them have XP on them. Run a good Anti Virus and they should be OK.

I would like to see that too but am not holding my breath. M$ is putting too much money into this to back down now but we can hope.

 

Can you actually claim your Win 10 key without installing Windows 10?

 

claimed with a win 7 key since december 2015....its sacrifice was not in vain

 

Yes have upgraded and would not move back. Wake up guys windows 7 is technically completely outdated by now!! 10 is slim, fast and requires under 10 GB of my SSD on dual language. Win 7 comparison please?

Deactivate the call home stuff. 99% of issues at upgrading weren't to blame on Microsoft but poor support by legacy hardware vendors.

 

I don't understand all of the "hardcore" members here not upgrading. We've figure out that you can remove the spyware and crap. If you want to game DX12 is already slowly rolling out in games, and its only on Windows 10. 10 also is so so so so so much better at high resolution. Windows 7 sucked for 4k in comparison and 8.1 was better but not quite as good.
You all sound like conservatives wanting to stay on the old OSes. Its not a disaster like Vista, most people think 10 is pretty good. I used 10 for like a day before I realized I was never going back to 8.1.
The performance differences for squeaking out like 1 extra fps are stupid too. The OS clearly does more things I don't know why your expecting each Windows to be lighter.
I get the privacy stuff as something we should have a right to (though I don't see what you people are all doing that you care so much personally) so don't stop complaining about that. But it is time to upgrade people...

 

No, its months before Windows 10 + drivers are stable enough for most people, even on new hardware that comes with Windows 10 people have been and are pulling their hair out getting stable video, nvme, wifi drivers for months.

There may be pockets of stability, punctuated by forced driver updates that break something, or forced major version updates to Windows 10 that break even more stuff, including work flow due to UI changes.

And, in the past, on all the other Windows releases, I have been involved in the Alpha/beta and right there at release helping out with people transitioning.

After running the Insider version of 10 for months, I read the new EULA, and decided right then that MS (and other companies / govt) were over-reaching into my privacy too far, and enough was enough.

Time to make a stand and not upgrade to Windows 10 until we can completely turn off all the telemetry and the EULA puts a firewall between MS and the government, and denies access to our private files - on local PC hardware and remotely via Cloud storage.

There couldn't be enough improved in Windows 10 to force a move for me, and unless a client requires it for a project I won't be running Windows 10 myself until there is a clear fix for telemetry and privacy in the OS and EULA / service agreements.

Enterprise versions tested have shown telemetry - contact of some kind - going back to MS. Some of that is operator inexperience in tuning what is available to tune, but the default should be *no* telemetry for Enterprise.

Every aspect that connects to a MS server needs to be brought into a easy to use single button control to turn it all off in a single step.

I know how to turn most of it off, what I know about, but I don't have the trust right now to not completely instrument a Enterprise server for a while monitoring connections to known MS networks / telemetry sites to verify before rolling it out company wide.

This especially holds true for production servers at the edge with internet access. Right now I would want to do a pilot project using Enterprise for an intranet service completely cut off from the internet, so I can watch the attempts for external access.

I understand the need to for a company to stay current by working up images for use internally, and provide development environements on Windows 10 for product release on Windows 10.

To change infrastructure requires a longer lead time and more due diligence be done than I am seeing for those talking about rolling out Windows 10 Enterprise.

More people should be catching the telemetry contacts back to MS than I am seeing reported. I think people are forgetting to verify via external network packet sniffing what is actually going back to MS from their servers.

I see too many people saying turning off telemetry is not working, and at the same time some people are saying it is working. Past history has shown me the ones that aren't seeing any connections aren't watching for the right things, and the ones seeing lots of connections are missing some steps to turn off or re-configure to connect somewhere else other than Microsoft.

It's too much of a mess to deal with when Windows 8.1/7 will suffice.

 

until they fix decreased physics performance in Win 10, I will continue to run 7. For my purposes, CPU power is everything, and I need every Hz I can get. There is about a 300-600mhz tax for running Windows 10.

 

What are your purposes if I may ask? It sounds to me like your an exception to the rule, most people aren't doing whatever you are.

Again I have nothing against your telemetry arguements. I am interested in your driver arguements. I have 10 on four devices myself and I see dozens of other people with it every day, what kind of driver problems are you speaking about?

 

Read the forums, DELL, Asus, Acer, MSI, etc etc

And, a performance hit like @Raidriar is experiencing is affecting everyone, they just don't know enough to test for it.

 

By the way didn't 7 and 8.1 retroactively get all of the telemetry added to it?

 

Not if you block the Telemetry and Windows 10 upgrade KB's

Windows7/8 - Updates to hide to prevent Windows 10 Upgrade / Disable Telemetry
http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-windows-10-upgrade-disable-telemetry.780476/

In a nutshell, uninstall KB's / hide KB's, block IP's / IP ranges in hosts file / firewall, and routing table, it is also recommended to set the same blocking in perimeter firewalls:

1) Use Destroy Windows Spying - Final release in December, new version in development.

2) Use Aegis cmd scripts - use the Beta Master for latest KB's to avoid.

3) Monitor NBR group above for weekly updates, and list of KB's to look for in Post #1.

4) Run standalone version of GWX Control Panel to uninstall Windows 10 Upgrade files, folder, application, rules, and if you like run in Monitor mode for when you do manual Windows Updates to catch any MS changing of Update.

With Windows 7/8.1 you haven't agreed to the far reaching invasion of privacy agreement that is in Windows 10.

Windows 10 has the Telemetry baked in from the Windows 10 Insider days, so other than playing with fiddly bits in control panels, using tweak applications, and blocking connections via PC firewall / external firewall, you are stuck with Telemetry.

The EULA(s) are the main problem, besides all the bugs and future bugs while MS / OEM figure out the UI / bugfixes in Windows 10, and every major update coming soon.

Windows 8.1/7 are very stable.

 

To you maybe but W7 does everything I need it to do very nicely. I tried W8.1 and W10 and they were not for me. For me after working a 12 hour shift at work I like to sit down in front of my laptop with a cup of coffee and enjoy what's left of the day surfing the net. Not fixing the laptop because M$ figured I needed some new updated driver. This happened twice in 3 weeks that I had W10 installed. Finally I came to my senses and said why am I doing this. For now W7 does everything I need a OS to do. Did I also say I hate boxes on my screen .

 

Not even close, Do you realize that over 50% of people around the world are still using Win7 including businesses and also it still dominates the marketshare? Its the new WinXP which most people enjoyed

Btw Win 10 sucks on my laptop due to bad drivers and other issues (Telemetry and limited options in the settings cough* Windows Updates cough*) and went back to 8.1 and its back being stable and fast as ever and also having classic shell installed its pretty much like using Win7

 

I have 2 yr old MSI Apache, not one Win 10 driver released by MSI for it, but everything works fine, including keyboard backlight and function keys, so I do feel for others who still struggle with drivers, but not the case here. Privacy issues are more issues in principal than real problem yet, especially if you don't do anything sketchy, but there are so many unanswered questions, like why? where are we going with this? advertising in paid OS? (yes, paid OS, limited time free upgrade doesn't make it free). How long, before data breach will release all collected info into wild, we don't even know what they collect. IMO Win 10 works fine, but MS has to come clean and need to release some tools to shutdown all telemetry and forced updates, if people so desire, without hacking tools, which could be security risks on their own. So maybe we need to complain and moan otherwise we should only blame ourselves. It only took them about 5-6 years to bring back start button and tone down this stupid metro interface. As far as Win 10 being more modern than old Win 7, yeah there is DX12 (like there is real reason they couldn't put it in Win 7, if they wanted), there is Fast Boot (yeah, rename hibernation fastboot and advertise as new feature, like if Win 7 didn't have hibernation) and there are those new settings, very helpful for my 4 yr old who doesn't know how to read, but will remember location of large buttons to click, but to me looks like dumb down phone interface. But otherwise it's the same old Windows where I do real work or play real games. MS has to realize, computers are not phones (which MS doesn't have great luck selling anyhow) so some things may not be accepted as easily. I like Win 10, it works fine for me (better than Win 8.1, that's for sure) and for now I'll block telemetry and forced upgrades with already available tools, but MS promised to listen to customers now, lets make sure they know telemetry and updates have to be on voluntary basis and for real.

 

It's rather difficult, since there is no key to claim. Your installed key is same as mine and the others.

It's actually claiming a valid activation for certain combination of hardware. That is where the catch is, if you upgrade computer enough to require reactivation it might not be possible after the grace period. Not that much of a problem with laptops.

 

The MSI GT72(S) and GT80(S) have upgradeable GPU's. Going from a 965m / 970m / 980m to a Pascal would likely kick out the license for Windows 10, but as long as MS will take a call to explain the upgrade, and allow you to keep the license, you should be ok.

I had that happen with Windows 7 and a motherboard replacement - MAC address changed - phone call to MS and it was fixed.

 

It looks like MS's antics have inspired the Android OS guys to move into the x86 PC realm, with the beginnings of an Android OS based x86 Windows Desktop alternative, Remix OS.

Jide Remix OS for PC Beta - Available Free March 1st
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/jide-remix-os-for-pc-beta-available-free-march-1st.788702/

 

Alpha already worked, booted up fine on my pc, run few apps as well, but if I was judging Android from the way it works on my phone, there is no way I would accept it on my PC, except as sort of curiosity.
File restrictions, constant fight against google's maniacal determination to screw up usability and access to SD cards (latest version 6. lets you install programs on sd card, but before you can do that you have to reformat and encrypt whole card, making it impossible to read on any other device, like they couldn't just encrypt system files and folders), the whole rooting business, where to get full access to my phone I need to download hacking tools. No, thank you, I rather fight MS telemetry, seems like a child play compared to Android.

 

That's the point of Remix OS multi-overlapping Windowing, Desktop paradigm, and touch + mouse support. It's not a Phone OS.

Remix OS is designed to support real Productivity apps to be used on a x86 PC Android "Windows" OS device, through Remix OS, and whatever Google eventually releases - maybe they will adopt the Remix OS extensions.

The Remix 2.0 more closely mimics the "normal" desktop layout, and integrates that with already available Android apps to run them in a Window mode that gives you the ability to run multiple applications and switch between them, with overlapping Windows, close, hide, and maximize.

It's a real workspace for large screen use. It will fit best on a large screen PC, with a keyboard/mouse, but still support touch tablet / screen too.

Again, it's the beginnings of it all, and it's the Beta 2.0, so cut it some slack and don't give up on it - if Windows 10 is any sign of things to come from Microsoft, we need a solid alternative.

 

Thanks for clearing this up and updating us on newer version. In my defense, I did say "if Android on the phone is any indication.....". I had too many Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot (can I say that here?) moments with Android on my phone and frankly OS situation here is as dare as on computers. Phones have Android, iOS and Windows and if you don't like iphone and Windows market penetration scares you, Android is the only choice. On PC side you have Win, Mac OS and Linux and again same exact thing: Locked Apple and small market penetration of Linux leaves Win as only solution. I will keep an eye on Remix, that's for sure.

 

There's no such thing as a free lunch.

It just so happens that in this case, while Microsoft is buying you lunch, the price you're paying is your personal data which it will then sell to advertisers. The information gathering has been pretty much confirmed to happen even after you disable all of the data collection stuff in the settings.

 

Out of curiosity, I just read the Windows 10 end user license agreement and the Microsoft Privacy Statement to which it refers. According to the Privacy Statement, the only data pertaining to the Windows 10 operating system that cannot be stopped sending to Microsoft is for Activation (activation code, software type and version, and hardware info), Basic Telemetry (hardware info, a list of programs installed, networks connected, other hardware connected, and performance metrics regarding program opening/closing speed, error rates, and network connection speed), and Windows Updates (operating system and driver updates).

While Windows 10 has the capability to act as a keylogger, track all your computing behavior, and send your personal info to Microsoft, those settings can be disabled and the features that use them are optional.

Of course, for many the required data sharing is enough to make them cautious of using Windows 10. And folks have other reasons for declining the upgrade (such as compatability and driver problems, or performance concerns). But I did find it interesting that all the more egregious privacy violations can be disabled.

 

"But I did find it interesting that all the more egregious privacy violations can be disabled."

But they aren't really disabled, as several people that have monitored their Windows 10 Home edition and Windows 10 Enterprise edition network traffic have found and reported - and quickly had their posts and documented proof expunged from their postings.

In two cases MS has promised to come out with further controls over this data exchange - back and forth between you and MS - and to release those controls to the user level so they can all be turned off.

This has not happened, nothing has changed, except the telemetry KB's and Get Windows 10 KB's have continued to be updated and pushed to stop users from hiding and preventing those KB's from being installed.

MS is saying soothing things, and doing the opposite.

Even the 3rd party tools aren't completely stopping MS's push to install Windows 10 on everyone's computer, and 3rd part tools aren't complete stopping the Telemetry out/in of your computer. But they are stopping some, which may be enough.

As with anyone in power over you trying to force /coerce you to do something against your will - to do something you don't want to do - you must never give in, even if the effect of your resistance is small - it grows over time and gains strength in numbers as others wake up and realize they are being duped.

You may not at first be able to stop all the damage being inflicted on your privacy, but you are also not giving them 100% of what they want either. And, that is important as you diminish their product viability to their clients for your personal data.

Because the data samples from your PC's will be weakened by being reduced in coverage and consistency - skewing results obtained in odd ways - eventually causing them to likely throw out your data as it will negatively affect the desired results.

Even though you may not stop all of the data coming out, you will stop / interfere with enough to make your PC's data sets useless.

We have to work with what we have, keep building on it, and not stop resisting the efforts of the bully trying to take control of our PC and personal data - turning our personal data into their lunch money.

Claw, scratch, bite, and scream to everyone that can hear what is being done to you against your will, and the bully will retreat and go after easier game.

 

I have hard time to keep up with all the new revelations, can you clarify this statement for me?
Theoretically any and every OS has to have capability to read and pass on keyboard inputs, this is part of basic OS function, therefore every OS can act as keylogger, one way or another? I think Win 10 can intercept and pass forward all user searches, to help with more focused advertising, something Google has been doing for years. But I hope they're not logging all user inputs, like user id and passwords? Because this would be rather large security risk and would make no sense from business point of view.