Nando has assembled a list of special bios versions so a wide variety of laptop models now support Dual (IDA) mode.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/6646598-post142.html
I'd like to thank somebody over at TechPowerUp who introduced me to this little trick.![]()
Intel Dynamic Acceleration (IDA) on Core 2 Duo CPUs is designed so that the CPU will use a higher multiplier (faster speed) but Intel designed this feature so that only a single core at a time can benefit from this turbo boost. The second core has to be in the C3/C6 sleep state for this to work. As soon as the second core wakes up to process some background task; the maximum multiplier will drop back to the default multiplier. When the second core is finished and goes back to sleep, the first core can go back up to the higher speed by switching to the IDA multiplier.
IDA mode is available in most of the T7000, T8000, P8000 and T9000 series of mobile Core 2 Duo CPUs.
There is finally an easy way to enable IDA mode on both cores at the same time so it doesn't cycle on and off like Intel intended. When testing on a T8100, this resulted in a 9% performance boost when running the multi-threaded benchmark wPrime.
Unfortunately, not all laptops are capable of enabling Dual IDA mode. You need to be able to toggle the SpeedStep (EIST) bit from within Windows. On the Dell D830 I tested, there is an option in the bios so you can disable SpeedStep / EIST but many manufacturers lock the EIST bit and don't provide any option to unlock it. If you don't have this bios option and ThrottleStop shows that the EIST bit is grayed out, that means it is locked and you won't be able to use this trick.
Here's what worked for me.
1) Enter the bios and disable Enhanced Intel Speedstep® (EIST).
2) After you boot up, start up ThrottleStop. It should look something like this.
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The multiplier will be stuck at the default minimum which is 6.0. Adjust the multiplier to the highest possible value, set the Voltage ID which is the voltage your CPU will use and check the Set Multiplier box. Click on the Turn On button and then click on the EIST option. You should see the multiplier start to jump around in the monitoring area like this. If the multiplier is not above your default multiplier then make sure that you set the Minimum processor state to 100% in the Control Panel -> Power Options.
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The trick now is to disable EIST. This should force the CPU to lock both cores so that they will both be using the highest IDA multiplier. The T8100 I tested has a default multiplier of 10.5 and the IDA multiplier is 11.5. After I disabled EIST, the CPU multiplier gets stuck at 11.5 on both cores.![]()
You can run any sort of program you like and you can stress both cores as much as you like but it won't budge. By lowering the VID voltage to a safe and stable amount, you can run both cores at full speed without creating a lot of heat.
The Intel 45nm T8100 I tested is so efficient that there doesn't seem to be any significant increase in idle power consumption when locked like this. With a Kill-a-Watt meter I couldn't measure any difference. It seems that at idle, the CPU turns itself mostly off no matter what settings you use so this little trick shouldn't significantly change idle power consumption or increase your CPU temperature.
Here's the final result. Both cores are fully loaded while the IDA multiplier is fully engaged on both cores. Core temperatures look great too.
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If this trick works or doesn't work for you then post your results and let me know what type of laptop you have and what bios version it is using. Unfortunately some of the Acer laptops don't give you an option in the bios to disable EIST so you are out of luck.
When EIST is disabled, ThrottleStop will not be able to control your multiplier anymore. It will still be able to monitor your CPU and you can use it to lock the clock modulation values but adjusting the multiplier and VID will have no effect. On my laptop, SLFM was also automatically disabled when I booted up with EIST disabled.
If you want the operating system to get control of your multiplier then you will need to enable EIST before you exit ThrottleStop. I left it this way so once you set your CPU to use the IDA multiplier full time, you don't even need to leave ThrottleStop running. Your CPU will continue to use your locked IDA multiplier until you manually enable EIST.
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Is there any downside to enabling IDA mode on both cores? There must be some reason Intel limited it to only one core at a time.
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moral hazard Notebook Nobel Laureate
I believe intel did that to keep the CPU within it's quoted TDP.
With IDA enabled on both cores, the CPU will be a little hotter.
No real downside. I have been waiting for this for a long time, thanks unclewebb. -
I could try it on my laptop in my sig, but is there any real benefit to doing this apart from a slightly higher clock speed?
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My BIOS 1701 in an ASUS G71Gx has an option Intel Speedstep Tech which can be enabled/disabled. The explanation text says it is for GV3.
I changed from enable to disable, but in TS the EIST bit is grayed out.
CPU-Z shows that the T9600 CPU is running always at full speed, although I set Power Options to balanced mode.
Is there any suggestion or advice? -
There won't be a huge difference in power consumption whether Dual IDA mode is enabled or not. Most Core 2 Duo processors have no problem at all running 100% reliably with the IDA VID voltage setting reduced. My T8100 has a default voltage of 1.1375 volts and an IDA voltage of 1.200 volts. It runs reliably in Dual IDA mode at only 1.050 volts. This drops power consumption to a lot less than TDP so you don't have to worry about damaging your CPU. You're doing it a favor.
maximinimaus: Some motherboard bios versions will have features that don't work correctly. I have an older Asus desktop board and same thing. You can change some things in the bios but when you get into Windows and check, nothing has changed at all or EIST remains locked. The Dell D830 I used correctly leaves this bit unlocked when you disable SpeedStep in the bios.
If ThrottleStop shows that the EIST bit is grayed out, that means the bios has locked it and there isn't any way to unlock it. Once locked, that's it. The only way to unlock the EIST bit is to reboot but in your case, the bios will immediately lock it again.
I posted some power consumption numbers of Dual IDA over on this thread today.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=6174500&postcount=4892
If you use the IDA voltage on both cores then power consumption goes up but if you drop the voltage to the default VID, then Dual IDA mode does not consume any significant extra power compared to both cores locked at the default FID multiplier. Maybe 1 extra watt max on a 45nm Core 2 Duo CPU. -
ThrottleStop 2.00 Beta 17
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/ThrottleStop.zip
I found Dual IDA mode to be so interesting that I decided to automate the process so it will be easier for users to check this out.
If ThrottleStop shows that the EIST bit is not locked (not grayed out) then you can give this new feature a try. Just add this to the ThrottleStop.ini configuration file.
DualIDA=1
Your CPU needs to be lightly loaded for it to be able to switch into Dual IDA mode. If it is, this option will toggle the EIST status of your CPU until it is able to lock both cores of your CPU at the full IDA multiplier. On my T8100, this happens pretty much instantly.
Set ThrottleStop up so the SetMultiplier option is checked and set to the highest value. Also set the VID voltage to an appropriate number. Once that is done then you can restart ThrottleStop with the above option.
You can also try using the option DualIDA=2
If ThrottleStop is able to lock both of your cores to the highest IDA multiplier then it will automatically exit since it has done its job and isn't needed anymore. Perfect thing to add to your start up sequence.
The only problem so far is that if I use Stand By or Hibernate modes, the CPU will get locked at a 6.0X multiplier when I resume. It's easy enough to restart ThrottleStop to fix this problem real quick.
I might automate this too in the near future so when it resumes, ThrottleStop will automatically lock your cores in Dual IDA mode again.
Let me know if you see any issues and if it works for you. -
I have a Core 2 Duo T6400. According to wikipedia, this model along with all the Penryn Core 2 Duo's should have IDA.
I also went into Control Panel --> Power Options --> Change Plan settings --> Change advanced settings and set the Processor power management to be 100% all the time.
The problem is, my multiplier count still can't go above 10. Is this because I'm doing something wrong or because the T6400 can't go above 10x on the multiplier? -
Regarding IDA, the BIOS must support this feature. You can see in HWINFO32 if it's supported. My ASUS G71Gx BIOS unfortunately doesn't support IDA, although the CPU T9600 supports it. -
I can't find any data showing whether the T6400 supports IDA or not. If you start up ThrottleStop and the multiplier adjuster stops at 10.0 then that's as high as it goes and it definitely doesn't support IDA. ThrottleStop reads this info directly from the CPU.
maximinimaus: I'm curious about your T9600. Does ThrottleStop let you access your IDA multiplier? I recently added an option to toggle the "Disable Turbo" bit. Usually if that is unchecked and you set the ThrottleStop multiplier to its maximum then you can access your IDA multiplier. Can you post a screen shot of ThrottleStop while running a single threaded benchmark like SuperPI mod. Take a screen shot about half way through a 1M calculation if you can. I haven't seen a bios yet that could block IDA. There are two different bits in the CPU that can disable IDA. If ThrottleStop can't get this working for you then let me know and I will come up with a plan B you can try.
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Yesterday I put a T9900 in my notebook. But this should make no difference.
I can not uncheck "Disable Turbo". "Set Multiplier" shows 12.0.
I'm using ThrottleStop 2.00 Beta 17. Any suggestion?
After inserting the T9900 I can not enable "Turbo Gear" in the BIOS anymore.
HWINFO32 also shows no IDA support, IDA is greyed out, same as with the T9600. -
The default multiplier for a T9900 is 11.5 and the IDA multiplier is 12.0. The T9600 also supports IDA when installed on a motherboard that supports that feature. It has a default multiplier of 10.5 and an IDA multiplier of 11.0.
ThrottleStop gets its information directly from a register within your CPU. If ThrottleStop can go to 12.0 then that is saying that your CPU is capable of that when IDA mode is enabled.
If you click on "Disable Turbo" and nothing changes and it stays checked, that tells me that the bios must have the IDA feature disabled so you can't use it. I'll have a look to see if there is anything you can do about this but I don't feel too optimistic about unlocking this feature for you.
Can you post a screen shot of Model Specific Register MSR 0x199? There is a bit in there that also controls if IDA works or not. You can use my MSR Tool to read this register. Just type in 0x199 and click on the Read MSR button and it will tell you what is hiding in there. Send me a screen shot of that.
When the last digit in the EDX register has a 1 in it, that will disable IDA mode. Using this tool, if you change that to a 0 and click on the Write MSR button to write that information back into your CPU, that might get IDA mode working for you. Don't change any values in the EAX register. Just change that one bit. This register contains the requested multiplier so you won't hurt anything by playing with this. As for all the other registers you can access with this little tool, you're on your own.
Appendix B in Volume 3B of the Intel documentation has a list of registers but far too much information is hidden and listed as reserved.
http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/manual/253669.pdf
The buttons in the Copy To section will copy the contents of a register down into the bottom boxes where you can edit the information and then click on the Write MSR button to write this new information back into the CPU. You will have to do this for each core.
MSR 0xCE is where the maximum multiplier is located for your CPU. Post a screen shot of that and I'll show you where the info is hiding.
Edit: Here's some info from the Intel documentation:
Note: the power-on default value is used by
BIOS to detect hardware support of turbo
mode. If power-on default value is 1, turbo
mode is available in the processor. If power-on
default value is 0, turbo mode is not available.
It looks like IDA can be detected and likely disabled at the bios level. When that happens, there's probably nothing you can do after you get into Windows. -
Attached are the screen shots for 0x199 and 0xCE.
EDX is all zeroes. -
With all zeros in EDX of MSR 0x199, that means that IDA mode is not being blocked using that method. It's blocked at the bios level and I haven't found a solution for that.
In MSR 0xCE, if you look at EDX it ends with 0C2C. The first C in these 4 digits is the maximum multiplier for the CPU. C in hex is 12.0 in decimal so that is the maximum multiplier when IDA is enabled. If the 0 digit was a 4, that would symbolize that the half multiplier is being used. For example, 4C would translate to a maximum multiplier of 12.5.
The 2C represents the maximum VID when IDA mode is enabled. 2C in hex translates to 44 decimal and then you have to plug that into this formula:
Voltage = 0.7125 + (44) X 0.0125 = 1.2625 volts
Since IDA can't be enabled, you won't likely ever see that number.
Why not contact Asus and ask them why the bios doesn't let you access Intel Dynamic Acceleration which is a basic feature of your CPU? That's kind of like buying a car and finding out that they forgot to put a piston in one of the holes. -
Nice !! I salute you unclewebb, another rep!
Just tried it on T9300, wprime v2.00 with 2.7GHz added 3 seconds boost from the original 2.5GHz
Cheers! -
crayonyes: Thanks for testing this and showing that it really does work. So far it seems that only some Dell models let you toggle EIST which is needed to get this speed boost trick to work. Now you can spread the word and some screen shots in the Dell forums.
I plan to add a right click menu option so it will be easy to enable Dual IDA mode without having to edit an INI file.
A multi-threaded benchmark like wPrime makes it easy to see that this gives a nice free performance boost. My T8100 achieved similar results. -
Thank you for such useful info. Added your rep.
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@unclewebb:
I have one question regarding IDA.
HWINFO32 shows
Intel Dynamic Acceleration (IDA) Technology: Not Supported
EVEREST shows
Dynamic Acceleration Technology (IDA) Supported, Enabled
Who is right? -
ThrottleStop 2.00 Build 18
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/ThrottleStop.zip
I added a right click menu option to make it easier to enable Dual IDA if your motherboard and CPU support that. This option will not appear in the menu if the EIST bit is locked by the bios.
I made a change to how the SLFM option works and how the Disable Turbo option works.
maximinimaus: More than one register controls IDA so all software might not report this correctly.
The information in MSR 0xCE that you previously posted shows that your CPU definitely supports IDA.
I made a slight change to ThrottleStop so that it tries both methods at the same time to turn off the Disable Turbo bit in the CPU. If this version does not let you turn off the Disable Turbo option then I have to assume that it is being blocked by the bios.
On a T8100, when Disable Turbo is checked, the maximum multiplier is 10.5 which is its default multiplier. When I click on that box, the box clears and then the maximum multiplier is 11.5 which is the IDA multiplier for a T8100. There is nothing in the bios of a D830 that is blocking the Disable Turbo bit from being toggled on and off.
I also tried the Disable Turbo feature on a desktop Core 2 Duo that does not support IDA. In this situation, the Disable Turbo box is checked and it can't be unchecked because the CPU does not support IDA. -
I think HWiNFO32 was wrong and confirm (based on outputs), that the CPU is indeed IDA capable. But it doesn't report it as available.
I'll fix this in HWiNFO32... -
Welcome to NBR Mumak.
Intel hasn't updated some of their Core 2 mobile documentation for a while so it doesn't include the newer Core 2 mobile CPUs.
I found this site that shows a T9900 does support IDA and the IDA frequency is 3200 MHz which is the 12.0 multiplier like MSR 0xCE confirms.
X86 cpus' Guide - View details on Intel Core 2 Duo T9900 PGAimoskvin likes this. -
I suppose you have NDA with Intel (since you know much about MSRs), then you can find the T9900 info in NDA docs.
I was wrong with IDA reporting since I used CPUID[6] EAX[1] to check for capability, which obviously is 0 when the feature is disabled but supported.
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Hello!
Well i want to thank you first for the hard work put on ThrottleStop and for sharing it with us.
Thank You.
Now, if you could give me a hand here...
Just yesterday i found out about how you could Undervolt you CPU using RMClock (Great program) so i have been doing tests on my CPU and finally found a stable undervolt of .100v (which sucks compared with others).
So now, i found this application which among other things it lets you use the IDA multiplier for both cores, but i have some questions...
Can you use RMClock and ThrottleStop at the same time? (something tells me you cant)
Can i force RMClock to use the IDA multiplier in both cores like ThrottleStop?
I had RMClock configured to run at Windows startup, using the Maximal Performance profile on AC power (2Ghz, 1.075v, T7250) and Performance at demand on battery, but i also had configured the Power Saver profile (600Mhz, .900v) for the times i use my laptop to do minimal tasks on battery,
What would i have to do to have a similar setting using ThrottleStop? I can lock IDA at 2.2Ghz 1.100v, (Disabling EIST from the Bios) but if i don't run ThrottleStop my clock is stuck at 1.2Ghz.
Anyway ThrottleStop is a great program and achievement, thanks again. -
You can run both RMClock and ThrottleStop at the same time but if you set both of them to adjust your VID and FID then the two programs will fight against each other.
I tried the Dual IDA trick using RMClock but I could not get it to work. When toggling EIST, RMClock re-starts and screws things up. When EIST is disabled, RMClock and ThrottleStop don't have any control over the multiplier or VID. You're down to a single speed and VID which will increase power consumption and heat a little if left like that at idle on a 65nm CPU.
With ThrottleStop you could switch on EIST and SLFM and Power Saver and you would get similar power consumption to RMC at idle with the option to disable EIST and go into Dual IDA mode whenever you need to. At the moment you need to manually switch between these two settings and you can only go into Dual IDA mode if your CPU is fairly idle.
I guess you could also use ThrottleStop to switch on EIST whenever you like and then you could use RMClock to manage things. When you need more performance you could switch off RMC and use ThrottleStop's Dual IDA mode.
There's no simple solution. Choose whatever program that is most useful to you or choose them both. My laptop is mostly plugged in and runs cool and quiet so a slight increase in core voltage and heat isn't a problem for me. On the T8100, a VID adjustment makes no measurable difference to power consumption or heat at idle so Dual IDA mode at a single FID/VID setting works great with no negative issues. -
Setting DualIDA to 2 in the ini file and running ThrottleStop at windows startup is most excellent, having IDA clocks right away (And maximum performance), i can switch manually to Power Saver when using battery...
Thanks a lot, with this, you have made possible what would otherwise be impossible. -
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+ 1 rep
I sure have to try this with my D830 and T9500. I´m curious about my performance boost.
Also I've to find out if I can use this for my XPS M1730 with X9000. -
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ernstig01: The X9000 does not support Intel Dynamic Acceleration (IDA) so this trick will not work on that CPU. On your T9500, it should work great. A T9500 has a default multiplier of 13.0 so you should be able to lock both cores full time at 14.0 for a total of 2800 MHz.
maximinimaus: Maybe ask Asus to fix your bios too while it is in the shop. -
Regarding the BIOS, I already contacted the support of ASUS about 5 days ago, but until today, I got no answer. -
unclewebb: What BIOS is in the Dell D830 you used for testing Throttle Stop?
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Awesome program! +rep
It's a shame you can't undervolt while doing this though, because dual IDA mode sends my CPU temps into the high 80's/low 90's Celsius. -
I updated the D830 to bios A15 which is dated January 4, 2010.
Peon: You can still under volt while in Dual IDA mode on a Core 2 CPU. Just use ThrottleStop and set the VID voltage before enabling Dual IDA mode.
This T8100 has an IDA VID of 1.200 volts but it runs great in Dual IDA mode at 1.050 volts.
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Originally I thought that I was going to be stuck with the IDA voltage but being able to adjust that lower makes this feature a lot more useful. When EIST is disabled, the FID and VID settings get locked and can't be changed so they both have to be set first, before disabling EIST.
If SLFM is checked, you can lower the voltage all the way to the minimum SLFM voltage and still use Dual IDA mode but you'd need a Golden chip to be able to run reliably when set up like that.
Everest says that the D830 bios is made by Phoenix. -
Tried the trick on the QX9300 on my W700. I was able to engage the IDA multiplier of 10.5 on two of the four cores. The sad thing is that the multiplier of the other two cores is locked to 6.0 and can't be raised! It would be awesome if the IDA multiplier can be engaged on all four cores...
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The ThrottleStop right mouse menu option, Start Dual IDA, is not designed for Core 2 Quad processors; yet.
Set the Control Panel -> Power Options -> Minimum processor state to 100%.
After booting up with EIST disabled in the bios, can you start ThrottleStop, enable it, set the multiplier to the highest value (10.5), put a check mark in the Set Multiplier box and then enable EIST in ThrottleStop.
Can you post a screen shot of ThrottleStop? I think the multipliers on all 4 cores will be bouncing around as IDA is engaged on different cores.
To lock IDA on more than one core the CPU needs to be fairly idle. Try manually turning off the EIST check mark and see what the 4 cores get locked to. Cycle the EIST check mark a couple of times and see what happens.
I might have to do a couple of adjustments to ThrottleStop to try and get this to work on your Quad but I think it's possible.
Edit:
ThrottleStop 2.00 Build 22
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/ThrottleStop.zip
I made a quick change to ThrottleStop to try to support automatic IDA mode for the QX9300. I'll have to wait and see how your manual testing goes to see if this is going to be possible. -
One of the coolest projects I have seen on the net. Is there any benefit to this program on a desktop computer? I have a Q6600 OC'ed to 3gHz that is rock stable (as long as the poorly designed northbridge cooling fan gets enough airflow and doesn't overheat). If it does, I would be more than happy to give it a shot. Beyond that, my M17x-R2 with a quad core is in the "boxing stage" so I hope it gets here soon and I can test there too.
Great work! -
For the desktop, you might find my other project to be a more useful CPU/GPU monitoring tool.
RealTemp
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/RealTempBeta.zip
If you have an Nvidia GPU then add GPU=1 to the RealTemp.ini configuration file and for ATI cards, change that to GPU=2
Good luck with your new M17x-R2. Many Alienware laptops have throttling and/or DPC latency issues so do some thorough testing when you get it to make sure it lives up to the specs. Prime95 + Furmark synthetic testing quickly weeds out the laptop pretenders. Throttling during this test is a good warning sign of possible future problems. -
Attached Files:
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Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to be possible to get the Dual IDA trick to work on all 4 cores. On a different laptop with a QX9300 it might be possible but not on your Lenovo.
When the EIST bit is manually turned on, two of your four cores are not supposed to be locked at the 6.0 multiplier. All four should be able to go up into the 9.5 to 10.5 range. This looks like a limitation of your bios.
When you boot up with EIST enabled, can the ThrottleStop reported multiplier on each core go up and down without any problems? -
Yes. -
unclewebb, you rock.
You have evolved a fix of our throtlling issues into something that unlocks the latent power of our processors. This worked like a charm on my DELL SXPS 16 with a T9550, running at 2.8 GHz now in Dual IDA mode.. Only thing i had to do was to disable EIST(labelled as SpeedStep) in the BIOS, and did all you said to do.. perfect =)
Not even Intel could pull this off lol....
Thanks mate! -
I love hearing about success stories.
EIST is Intel speak. It stands for Enhanced Intel SpeedStep. Dell seems to let you access this in the bios of quite a few of their laptops. Dell already hates me for exposing all the throttling nonsense they've been doing and now this. I don't like my chances of getting invited to their Christmas party this year.
Maybe I can find a Dell user with a QX9300. It would be great to see 4 cores all locked and running at the full IDA multiplier. I still think it's possible if the motherboard and bios cooperate a little.
Once again, many thanks to somebody on TechPowerUp who introduced me to this trick. The new resume from stand by feature where it automatically switches back into Dual IDA mode is working great for me. -
I have an MS-1722 barebone laptop with a QX9300 in it. I will try the method described here tonight.
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Unfortunately, locking all 4 cores at IDA multiplier doesn't work in my laptop. Even though I disabled SpeedStep in the BIOS, the EIST option in ThrottleStop remained greyed out.
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The EIST bit has a separate lock bit that controls it. If the bios sets the lock bit, user software can not adjust EIST after you boot up. If ThrottleStop finds that the lock bit has been set by the bios, this option is grayed out and will not work.
Thanks for testing that. -
unclewebb: Thank you so much for releasing this!
Not only can I make my Dell M1330 (with a T7500) fly along super fast with no throttling, but I can also make it run about 10 degrees cooler thanks to the voltage selector.
This is really great stuff, thank you for sharing such a powerful piece of software. Really appreciate it.
Tim
How to Enable Intel Dynamic Acceleration (IDA) on Both Cores of a Core 2 Duo
Discussion in 'Windows OS and Software' started by unclewebb, Apr 21, 2010.