I feel so worthless under Vista. Please take a look.

As the title stated, I feel so useless/powerless under Vista, that it had assume that I was a complete novice to the Windows world. Before, under XP, I had always felt I was in control, the task manager could literally serve as my control panel, I can terminate all suspicious processes, or the ones that had crashed. However, under Vista Task manager was so underpowered, I can not complete anything. For example, I always had Firefox/Program crashing on me either at startup or when I uses the program. Of course like any other intelligent user of Windows, using task manager to terminate the crash exe is the always the first thing that comes to mind. BUT, it doesn't work, the process just stops responding all together and the task manager had no rights to terminate it even under Admin accounts with full rights. It ended up taking up the memory and just sits there. WHATS even more ....less satisfying is that fact that log off does not remove the process, logically, logging off should terminate all processes started manually by the user unless it's a service. It doesn't it just sits there and appears on all accounts hogging the ram. What's more disheartening is that the program like Firefox would not allow a second instance since the first was never completed. I feel so frustrating that I can not do anything but to sit and be limited or I must do a hard reboot to get everything working again. Never had I felt more of a puppet of Microsoft than I am now.

On a side note, if anyone knows where I can get a alternative to task manager that can force terminate the process I will be very thankful.

 

There are reported problems with Firefox 2.0.0.8. that are supposed to be resolved next week with 2.0.0.9. or by rolling back to 2.0.0.7..

You might look at Process Explorer. I have been meaning to check it out, but have not had time.

 

Thanks for the reply, but that is not a version specific issue with Firefox which I am 100% positive. It had being happening since 2.0.0.6, even after multiple reinstalls, also it happens with other programs as well, not limiting to FireFox. Btw, thanks for suggestion will check out PE. In the mean time, Reps+.

 

What do you mean you feel so powerless under Vista? Are you a standard user? Do you know how to disable UAC if you are an administrator?

I feel most powerful in Vista now that I have applied my previous knowledge with the vast information on the internet...although most of it can also be applied to XP.

 

It's just your computer, not Vista. I can terminate programs at will, ie. if FF crashes, I just end the process and FF can start back up. Nothing significant has changed in the task manager from XP to Vista.

 

What are your computer specs? I bet those are more likely to blame than Vista.

 

Well, obviously you and i live in a very different world, if by power you mean the convenience of just point and click and have Vista does everything then yes Vista is VERY POWERFUL indeed. An example would be the system restore feature, you can not longer adjust the space easily, besides going through DOS. I hate that, I want that power to be in my hand not some machine Code, I want to be able to manage certain stuff; in this case, including the rights to terminate my processes.

Btw, Process Explorer is can't terminate them as well, it returned as "access denied", and vaio2k7 turning off UAC is the first thing I did after powering on my lappy. I already know it's not needed by me, and yes I do know how to turn it off, however, thanks for the input.

EDIT 1: Specs fine, it's Vostro 1500 c2d 1.6, 2 gigs of RAM, 160 gig hardrive, 8600m Gt, with Vista updated with latest updates. If it helps it's default Dell OEM Installation.

 

Try initiating Task Manager by right-clicking and then choosing run as administrator. You only need to do this once per program, so only one time for Task Manager.

 

I tried that and it doesn't work, I even took it one step farther, I turn UAC back on, and it still doesn't work.

 

Clean install and try again. Or go the route of Linux if you want more control.

 

Aha! You're having the exact same problem as I am. Maybe we can find a solution together. It's happening to me with Thunderbird as well, however.

JohnDoe, how does one right-click to start the task manager? Is there a way to start it besides ctrl-alt-delete that I'm unaware of?

 

Locate Task Manager under the Start Menu, or find the actual executable under \Windows\System32\ and right-click on it.

 

@Dragonpet

When you try to diable a Process under Task Manager, are you trying to diable it under Applications tab or Processes Tab? Because I have noticed trying to end some apps/processes under Application tab is pretty useless/slugglish or just does not work. But I have never had a problem under XP or Vista disabling something under Processes tab. Even with firefox.


BTW ... Vista is just as Powerful and capable as XP. There both NT. Actually Vista has more Options by default.

 

Dragonpet,

Take a look a this:

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=589070&sid=ff45e4dd1b93a7b84a67aadaf2e09473

That describes my problem, and I believe yours as well. An unendable firefox.exe. It doesn't give a definate solution, but apparently it's becoming a problem. It will certainly be fixed eventually. If we can't fix it, I guess we can always use another browser in the mean time. They also give links to Firefox 3 Alphas, which aren't intended to be a solution obviously, but they do apparently use a very different code base and might not suffer from the same hanging, unendable .exe problem.

 

Funny cause one of my main reasons a couple of years ago for switching to FireFox was the low Recourse compared to IE. Besides the obvious browser speed.

 

The problem is only with firefox or with other processes? firefox 2.0.0.8 has some issues currently....



Btw
Some core processses like anti-virus shields, window manager....the ones which take max. space ...they can't be ended...it says 'access denied' on my laptop too....


I think vista is powerful and in 6 months from now...it ll be much more powerful with all hotfixes being published

 

I just ended window manager, never popped up an "access denied", though it did start right up again, since it's required for the system to run. As long as you have administrative rights, you can end everything under processes.

 

hey Lithus......window manager is essentially for aero rite? ...my home basic doesnt have aero so can i disable it ?

 

Window Manager is the program that tells the system where everything should be. It can't be disabled.

 

okay, actually on vista it takes LOT of space...but thanks for the info. which i didn't have.

 

Blame it on firefox. Even in the most recent release, in many instances firefox keeps on tranferring information from the server pages forever. Stick to IE7.

 

Stick to IE7? No thanks. FF has been better in the past; though I'm not using it now, I'd rather head to Opera over IE7.

 

Just right-click on the taskbar...Task Manager is the third option from the bottom.

 

Actually theres a much faster and better way to open Task manager in vista by pressing ctrl+shift+esc ...u can give that irritating option screen (consisting of various options such as change password, log off etc) a miss...

This combo opens the Task manager directly without taking you to that option menu.

 

But neither of those will allow you to right-click and Run as Administrator

 

DTaskManager - great little program that offers the option to replace the default windows task manager.

 

type 'cmd' in run and press alt+ctrl+del ...u run as administrator now

 

If you're seeing crashes in Firefox and cannot kill it, it's because either 1) You terminate the process which causes the program to get corrupted or 2) the web sites you go to are complete crap.

You should not be terminating processes in such a way. If it's not responding, it's probably doing something, like waiting for a DNS reply or other system call. Continuing to do so will result in more system instability.

Your system is having problems BECAUSE you are terminating processes... termination is NOT a fix for those problems.

 

If you hit "Show Processes from all users" under the processes tab Task Manager will close off and open itself back up in Admin mode ...

If Task Manager is running in admin mode you can shut down anything...

For example, you can use Task Manager to kill the RPC service and you'll be forced to reboot as Windows can't run without it. But it won't argue with your request...

 

Just to set things straight, you aren't going through DOS. DOS is dead in Vista, Windows XP and even Windows 2000. Doesn't even exist. What you're doing is interfacing with Windows through the command line. It's still Windows, though. And if you keep at it, you'll realize that the command line is much more suited to power administration tasks than pointing and clicking. There's a reason so many administrators wanted the Windows PowerShell available to them... it makes actually administrating things easier.

I'd also recommend against turning off UAC. It's there for a reason... if you use properly programmed applications, you should see little impact from it, and even the most talented and wary of us can run some bad code from time to time. It's yet another layer to the security onion (security is kind of like an ogre).

 

That is what I meant by DOS, i know for a fact from XP and above the "DOS" is merely a shell of it's former self. I didn't know that 2k lost it as well. Oh well.

I partially agrees with UAC, I mean, when I was turning UAC off, I start Control Panel and click on User Accounts, UAC responded and block it I have to manually allow it. Yes, this does in fact provide an extra layer of security, but just like how economy works, it must be cost effective. If this case the cost is hassle, and it totally out weights the advantage of the security, I am talking about a person with some, common sense such as not clicking on anything exe randomly pined to an email, No surfing site that you probably don't want your sister to see, etc. Basically all the good stuff an wise users would not do to their dear laptops, I am pretty sure the majority of the people here have this knowledge.

Now back to the issue at hand, Thanks Vaga for the interesting read, I hope the new code will sort out the issue, at this time the only work around I can establish is to ignore the process for a good 10 - 15 minutes then Firefox will allow the second instance to start, This does not mean the process has ended it is still there hugging, (yes hug) it's precious resources.

@ Orev, I don't quite understand what you are telling me, by terminating a process that is the source of instability, I am in term creating more instability?
Does this means, if I remove a parasite, a leech, from my body which I got while swimming in the river, I potentially gets more leech on me? What if I am out of the River, in this case, back to my desktop to remove the "leech" from my body, my "system".

@Coolguy, sticking to IE, is not a permanent solution, I love Firefox, and I love the extensions it comes with it, I do however, used IE when FF crashes to wait out the 10-15 minutes for the second instance to work.

Finally, running task manager as Administrator doesn't solve the issue, I looked under Process explorer, the process hog hold it's own private memory, and the description of the process would disappear from both tskmngr, and PE with the displayed memory which was allowed to the process "frozen" to a particular number, random each time. Most interesting was that PE should the process to be executing/waiting on the "Wait:Execution" Command. I have no idea why it gets stuck there. I guess the process crashed and ends up in a endless "Sleep" function?(for those who do programming)? I am a script kiddy, sleep is very basic, I am just throwing it out there.

 

If I had any mainstream program crash regularly and render itself or the computer either unusable or reduced in functionality for ten minutes or more, I would be looking for a systemic cause rather than blaming the program.

Generally, mainstream programs don't jump; they are pushed.

 

The same reason why I started the thread on why Vitsa task manager is useless and not how firefox stopped responding, well it is also due to the fact that I know firefox is fine, it works flawlessly on my xp system.

 

Can I get an AMEN, brothers and sisters?

Well put!!!!!!

Gary

 

Hmmm and that proves it is fine under Vista? I am not sure I understand that logic. And then you found out that even Process Explorer was also unable to kill the process and yet the issue is NOT with firefox. I am CERTAIN I do not understand THAT logic.

Gary

 

First and for most, there's the edit button, and there is no need to kiss asses here.
Second, I never mentioned that it is working under Vista, I said XP. The OP was on Vista how it gives me no power to terminate my process, and not about Firefox, or XP. People moved it that way, and it's a related issue thus it's being discussed. You don't understand my logic, because your logic is flawed to begin with, you didn't read the posts rights; thus, you don't have the right facts to based your logics on, let along to understand my logic. Please if you are not going to help, do not post, I don't need spectators commenting on how one post is superior to another. I am simply looking for a solution to an apparent common problem among some windows Vista User, while expressing my frustrations at the same time.

 

Well, back on topic: it's not Vista nor Firefox that's causing you to be unable to terminate processes. It's probably just a setting you haven't tweaked or a conflict caused by another program.

 

Since your analogy is invalid, I will run with it. Yes, if you remove a leech from your body then yes, it causes more to show up. See? Completely invalid analogy because the internal software of your computer is not a physical thing.

Parts of software can be shared with other parts of software, called DLLs. If you kill a process using some DLLs, there is a potential to corrupt them, which can cause other programs that use those DLLs to now also be unstable. Also, killing a process causes corruption in the data of that process, so the next time you start it up, it reads the corrupt data and becomes unstable... which you then kill again, causing more corruption...

The fact that you have to kill processes at all is an indicator that something is wrong on your system AS A WHOLE. You should never need to be killing processes using the task manager, and certainly not often enough that the task manager "could literally serve as my control panel". In addition, any "suspicious processes" that you are killing could easily be things the system actually needs to function.

If you really think you have so many suspicious processes and programs running that you need to kill them all the time, you should be rethinking how you approach dealing with your system and stop downloading and installing so many programs that you don't know or trust.
_

 

My logic is flawed? Did you or did you NOT in the message quoted above say you knew firefox was fine because it worked flawlessly under XP. And you are the one who continues to insist that there is something wrong with Vista, not firefox, when numerous folks have pointed out very clearly to you that there is a known issue with firefox freezing like this and being unable to be terminated. Yet you still blame Vista's task manager. And then it is pointed out that even Process Explorer is unable to kill the task, and yet you say the issue is NOT with firefox it is Vista and Vista's task manager.

And MY logic is flawed? You are NOT looking for a solution to a apparent common problem. You are looking to point fingers at task manager when all evidence is to the contrary. I follow these threads daily and there is no common issue with task manager being unable to kill processes. There is apparently a common issue with firefox hanging and being unable to be killed.

But it is MY logic that's flawed. Right?

I am trying to help. I am trying to help someone else who finds this thread seeking a solution, understand what the REAL issue is here.

Gary

 

You may have thought the OP was concerning Vista however the main reason for your problems was Firefox. Therefore a lot of your "theories" have nothing to do with the matter at hand which is that Vista DOES let you end processes normally however Firefox has a bug at the moment.

Aside from that, there isn't really anything you can do until a patch is released... =/

 

On an lighter note, no problems with firefox + vista here.

 

I love Firefox on Vista, but it does have it's memory leaks sometimes.