I just read an article CRAZY

old article but still


60% of photoshop users are pirates

doesn't phtotshop have anyway to stop people from downloading cracked photoshops from sites like mediafire and stuff?

 

doesn't surprise me... its so expensive... its ever expensive with student discounts!

and there really is no way to stop people from DLing cracked/stolen versions.

 

Yeah, doesn't surprise me, either - it is really expensive. I've used the trial of Adobe Fireworks, and it is really nice, but at $300 there's hardly any chance I'd actually buy it - and Photoshop CS4 is even more expensive at $650. Even Photoshop Elements at $80 is kind of expensive. Most people just don't budget that much money towards software purchases.

What I've done instead for the rare picture editing I do (hence why Fireworks isn't worth it) is used GIMP or Microsoft Paint. Paint obviously is rather limited, and the more I learn about GIMP the more it seems like it might be able to do most of what Fireworks can. But Fireworks certainly is more intuitive.

I always did think a lot of people "photoshopped" stuff for such an expensive software, even assuming a lot of them weren't actually using Photoshop. So that more than half are pirates, not surprising.

 

Ya I have to agree as I make no profit out of the software, it does not justified the price tag for me. I believe there's many people out there like me but they end up using the pirated version.

 

Unless they distribute the software at a fair price, piracy will continue. They can’t stop people from downloading it from the internet, the only way to limit piracy is to implement a very strong product registration system. IMO that is almost impossible, but they can make it hard by imposing lots of restrictions on the user i.e: mandatory internet connection for an online check each time you launch the program or use of a hardware dongle etc.. (even those are not guaranteed solutions, and most genuine users will not like the hassle)

 

Use GIMP Its not as good but it can still do the job.

If its for professional use then purchasing photoshop might be a good idea.

 

The sad thing being that piracy kills software - Need For Speed has come to an end because of it. Rather sad.

Adobe prices are rather high, but there's always The GIMP and other interesting bits of software.

 

I use Paint.Net another good FREE tool for basic photo editing tasks.

 

Yeah, mandatory Internet check is going a bit too far - if you happen to be somewhere without the Internet, or if the Internet isn't working (for example, because the power went out), you couldn't use the program at all. And any hardware dongle is not ideal. CD requirements are acceptable since it's not bulky, but even they are a bit of a nuisance - if you're playing for a short time it may not be worth digging out a CD versus playing a no-CD-check game. And of course there's always ways to virtualize that you have the hardware dongle/CD attached - and using those does save effort for legitimate users in the long term.

*attempts to keep from turning this into a DRM discussion*

 

Good point.

GIMP is difficult to understand and use at first but gets the job done for free.

Cheers,
Theo

 

i use gimp as well. it's a good alternative.

 

I have to agree - mandatory internet connection is too problematic.
CD - can be very much of a nuissance - because, in contrast to games, you may want to use photoshop "on the go".
With games you generally sit down for more than one hour.

Speaking of Photoshop - I wonder how many people who use it, actually use any of its capabilities.
I have a legal version (of Elements 6) as it was part of the Sony Software package on my SZ.

Point is:
Until recently I hadn't had a clue about what it can do - until I got - a, in a way book about how to use things.

For your basic needs there are definitely easier programs around - you can inout text with paint...

If its expensive - CS4 or Lightroom definitely is.

Photoshop Elements at 70-80 Pounds isn't too bad.
A lot of software costs about the same.
Also, in terms of "value for money" Photoshop Elements is ery cheap because its capabilities are worth far more.

I think a change in mentality is needed in general, and that's the problem here, not the price alone.

 

good point.

i've worked in graphic design for about 15 years. i think the Adobe/Aldus/Macromedia/Quark products in the beginning were major hardware hogs, windows versions were buggy and still expensive.

i think with everything falling into Adobe, the CS line was a major upgrade and useful consolidation. that said, we bypassed, as did others, CS2 because of buggy postscript, and i was using Indesign 1.5 for years before i realized CS3 was even out.

big- pricing on CS3. we upgraded -- with *one* copy -- just last year. thing is, there was nothing i wasn't already doing on ID1.5 that i needed CS3 for. the big thing was dumb- file compatibility with Illustrator EPS files. Adobe doesn't make their stuff backwards compatible (or they make it hella awkward to do it), thereby forcing people to upgrade.

i'm running the CS4 design premium trial right now. interface across the board is consistent. product is FAST (Vista x64 6GB, etc. see my sig ...) and there are some nice touches for sure. but honestly, there's nothing i couldn't do in CS3 or earlier. even Flash CS4: love the new work area, and they obviously fixed the bugs in CS3 -- but really i'm not so hot in Flash that i NEED this.

all in all: after the trial ends, i think i'll bypass the upgrade and stick with CS3. we paid a lot for it just a year ago, and i can't justify/afford it.

upgrading software won't make me a better designer.

but i guess being able to source, hack, crack and repackage Adobe products make for better pirates?

 

Photoshop is priced very fairly. The problem is that Photoshop CS4 is oriented towards business use. For business, the support as well as power the software provides makes it well worth the cost, and the cost should not be a big deal if the software ultimately is being used to make money.

The problem is that everyone wants Photoshop for a Photoshop Elements price. If Adobe didn't offer a lower price "does all the basics" software then I could understand the crack in their business model--but they do. People just want the luxury edition for an economy price, it's not about unfair pricing and people who make that argument are simply looking for a justification for what is little more than outright theft.

I too may want a Lexus LS but I won't use its high price to justify stealing it. I'll just buy the Toyota Corolla--or earn the money to get the LS.

 

Don't forget Adobe can price themselves out of the marketplace too...

 

I dont think they can price it lower. Then mom and dad would want to buy it but not know how to use it and complain or be on tech support for all hours of the day that it is too complicated. They have watered down versions that are more intuitive for these purposes.

 

I love photoshop Currently using CS4 and i can make some great stuff in it.

But the price tag is too high to justify. I can get myself a really expensive smartphone for the cost of just photoshop alone.

I only use it for personal use anyway. If i was going to use it for buisness then i would pay.


I have a legit copy of PSE5 here and i've never even installed it. Photoshop elements is too cut down. To the point i'd go so far to say paint would be just as good.

 

Well, I think that is way off - and I believe you know that.
Paint and Elements are galaxies apart - and I think you know it.

 

NFS died because its last two installments [PS and Undercover] sucked.

Piracy will always exist, whether it's with cheap games or expensive software, such as Photoshop. However, the high "piracy rate" is probably more because of its ridiculous price than anything. Unless you are a professional who will earn more than $650 for whatever you will use Photoshop for, why spend your precious $650?

 

They are, but Elements and Photoshop are just as far apart.

I'd agree that the reason for so many illegal copies is that people want 'the best' and arn't willing to pay for the best. On the other hand though, everything is written for photoshop (books, tutorials, etc) and you can often find features missing if you take elements over photoshop.

I do hand it to Adobe though, they are the only ones who have the guts to charge hundreds of dollars for software to students. Not even the slightest bit worried about their monopoly.

 

Why not just have more DRM? I fail to see how corporations that spend millions of dollars developing software can't outsmart a bunch of "script-kiddies." If Adobe can make something as sophisticated as Photoshop, can't they invent some DRM scheme to protect that software?

 

Huh? http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_g...s&field-keywords=photoshop+elements&x=12&y=22

I see Photoshop Elements books and tutorials everywhere.

Sorry, I think the pricing model is reasonable for the complexity of the product and the level of support offered. (I have about 40 licenses of CS4 "in the field" and with that price tag comes a phone number I can call to get problems solved fast--something that's worth the cost in a business environment.) Yes, there's a gulf between the two products... maybe Adobe should introduce an intermediate product. But, frankly, I doubt that would solve things... even if such a bridge product existed, people would still pirate the full version because they want to get the best software they can without having to pay a dollar for it, and they'll look for any excuse they can to justify their actions.

People who pirate Photoshop CS4 when so many inexpensive or outright free alternatives exist (that may not have every bell and whistle--but do have many) are the sort who would steal cars or clothing if it were as consequence-free as downloading software anonymously.

 

c'mon, over $500 for CS4? If that's to cover their customer service payroll then I'll use google and save myself the money.

I have yet to see any software that hasn't been cracked and pirated. There are tens of thousands of people out there doing it every day. Creating a DRM scheme that can combat all of the pirates is about as successful as the war on drugs.

 

$650 may not seem a huge amount for those who are in U.S and other developed western countries, but what about the rest ? Even a pro photographer makes less than $650 per month in a developing country, for a person like that, saving up for Photoshop might take 6~7 months or more.

If you consider a $30 game like Crysis against Photoshop CS4, I’m sure more time and effort went in to developing the game, than upgrading PS from CS3 to CS4 (most of the filters, and other tools are already there, they just fine tune, add few features and optimizations). One might argue that there is a wider market share for Crysis, well, that could be true. But Crysis also faces piracy maybe even more than PS. Despite the market share difference, I still think Adobe is making more money than a company like Cryek for less effort.

 

DRM only hurts the legitimate customer, at the end of the day they're getting punished by being forced to install all kinds of rubbish on their computers while the software pirates will just crack the activation process anyway and use DRMless copies of it, look at the lesson of spore, DRM'd to the hilt, most pirated game of 2008, i know quite a few people who didn't buy the game based on the DRM issue.

The reason adobe sell photoshop and the Creative suite programs is because they're designed with industry professionals in mind charge accordingly, although 60% of photoshop users maybe pirates i bet less than 10% of them use more than a few functions of it although remember polls can be inaccurate

 

All thats different is layers and a few features.


My point was elements is not worth money, its absolutely rubbish.

 

Are you sure?
I got Elements 6 with my Vaio SZ.

For Photo editing its more than enough - well, no HDR support but if you are a "classical" hobby photographer, then Elements is more than enough to touch up your pictures.

 

Well, the first google result for 'elements tutorials' is just that:
http://www.photoshoproadmap.com/Photoshop-tutorials/Photoshop-Elements-tutorials/Most-popular/1/

But, 2 out of the 10 tutorials are on how to fake layer masks. That's 20% of tutorials teaching you how to pretend to have a feature you don't have, is that really a capable product?

I know for me at least the problem with elements is the lack of layer based tools. I don't care about HDR or perspective tools, or whatever else is new. I need perfected layer and history control.

The stealing part is a little harsh, and if anything I think you'd be surprised how many people would commit any 'crime' if they thought their would be no consequences. Basic economics in fact suggests that everyone should steal things if there is no consequence.

I don't think all DRM is bad. You need a little to discourage your basic user and let real users feel good about themselves. On the other hand DRM programs that require Internet connections, phone calls, dongles, etc. Those go too far. I think the serial key (and activation key you get back sometimes) are simple enough that users aren't excessively bothered, but pirates still have to copy that one file over.

If companies were really smart, they would just leak pirated versions of their product with incredibly destructive viruses Incorporated. Viruses are really the only con more pirates.

But photoshop isn't only used for camera photos. Its used used to create websites and adjust renders that aren't necessarily as lifelike as the CAD companies want you to believe.

 

You wouldn't want to design websites in Phtoshop, would you?

By the way, someone brought up the so called "third world" - and said photogrpahers there couldn't afford Photoshop.
Well, what about DSLRs? Professional DSLRs cost several times as much as Photoshop.

Another question.
There is (from bottom to top)

Elements
Lightroom
CS4

If I understand the Adobe Website correctly, Lightroom is att roughly 200 Pounds a step between CS4 and Elements.
I don't know about its capabilities though.

 

I dunno about other people, but I've done several over the last few years and I think its the best way to do it. (I'm talking about generating the images and layout, not the code). I think you'll find that most people who make websites use Photoshop.

As for the DSLRs, a good point, intrested to see what the others say for that one.

As for the lightroom... My understanding is that it is more an organizer. Looking on the website it is selling for $300, and its being sold at a discount of 30% when you buy it with CS4. To me that screams add-on, not replacement. When I read about it before the big deal was that it managed your photos and saved un-edited versions along with the modified ones, that way you could always get your origional photos back, for a professional that would be well worth $300. I don't think it does much as far as editing.

 

Hmm, maybe.
I'm not quite sure where lightroom fits in.

To me it looked like "more than Elements" "less than CS4".

Speaking of imag design - I suppose it depends what you want - I mean - if you just need a line, paint'll do that - more complex of course not.

 

you do know that the people who pirate photoshop would've never bought it even if they did have the money so don't blame the pirates for all your problems if they couldn't download it they still wouldn't buy it.

 

I don't think that's entirely true. If the price was more reasonable, or if there was a reasonably priced consumer version, piracy rates for Photoshop would go down. I'm not sure what the price is for CS4 Extended, but for CS3 Extended, the price was $1000. That's insane.

Thanks to the educational discount, I was able to pick up a copy for $300, but that is still crazy.

 

I created a website template in photoshop.

Slice it then code it it.

Almost all professionals do this.

 

Very true. Many people create the template in Photoshop and then export it to Dreamweaver. The way Adobe has it setup is very convenient.

 

I am a very heavy Adobe Creative Suite user. I love the way they work with one another. This is Adobe's strong suit. Integration. Microsoft has come along way but they are not there yet. I cannot do my work if I have just one Adobe product. Acrobat, PS, Illustrator are a must for me .

Anywho, eventhough Adobe products unleash creativity I would not pay for a creative suite master edition. I do not make profit out of these tools so an investment like that is not viable for me. I have the chance to use CS3 Master and CS4 Master legally because I borrow them from work.

When I'll have my own thingiemabob and money will come in from design/photography/etc, I will most definitely purchase a creative suite.

 

That is not entirely true; at the very least, it's not something that can be asserted a priori without strong proof otherwise.