Just shut up already.
Complaining on a web forum does no one any good.
If you want to contact Microsoft about it, be my guest, but as of now, this is completely idiotic.
Vista is a inanimate object. If you want to bash inamimate objects so badly and look like an idiot, go beat your house, or punch a tree, or something just as stupid.
Vista doesn't care. It's a god **** box. It's a piece of software. It's not gonna wake up tommorow and say it's sorry for whatever it did to you.
Microsoft doesn't read these forums. It doesn't care what people on NBR say. The only way your voice will be heard is by contacting them.
So either contact microsoft in droves, or just shut up and stop filling the forums with nonsense. Because right now, your just like the person who talks about standing up for what he believes in, but never does it. Whining in a web forum isn't gonna do it.
If your gonna stand for something, do what you believe in and don't spend your time whining in a web forum.
I'm sorry, but I've had it. I happen to love Vista, but I do like it when people stand for themselves. But instead you spend your times whining on web forums?!
Don't tell us about your problems, we don't care. Neither does Vista. Tell Microsoft.
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I like constructive criticism of any subject, be it an OS or other people's criticisms of an OS. I have no problem with people criticizing Vista if they've pointed out what's wrong with it and what they don't like about it, but if it's just Linux/Mac/XP-fanboyism then I tend to just ignore the noise.
That being said, come onnnnn Vista64 drivers... -
Ummm, if these problems were not on these forums, people would know there are problems that need to be fixed. I love Vista to, but I got hit with a blasted WGA-false-positive that MS currently has NO idea what triggered it. Do you know how many times I've reformatted and reinstalled any OS just because of this?
I'm telling you about my problem, and while some don't care, others have wanted to know what happened and how to solve it. Why? Because there are others looking for the solutions as well.
Oh, and I told MS...but they weren't exactly any help.
I'll be honest Zellio: I like Vista...a lot. But it needs to grow up just a little bit, and its various quirks more understood, before I recommend it to anyone.
You may have no problems with it, and you won't be the only one who never has a problem with it. But that doesn't mean we have to shut up about our problems.
@Gator: Yeah, 64bit drivers would be nice. I've still got a few things that refused to work. -
Oh, we also don't care what you think. Why would we? -
Zellio, yours posts are slowly becoming less and less out information and more and more about flaming people.
If we didn't bash this inanimate object then how do we expect it to get fixed? It's not open source so we can't fix it ourselves.
If you can think of a way to fix this that doesn't involve complaining to the manufacturer, I'd like to hear it. -
Zellio, it's also normal to have this "bashing" with new MS OSs. I mean what do you expect? I doubt you could create an OS perfectly the first time.
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*sigh* I can see that nothing I see will change you people.
Fine, go ahead, bash all you want.
But how is this helping anything? If Microsoft doesn't read this forum, and possibly other forums, how is it helping anything?
It's just like beating a tree, it's a waste of time.
If you want to do something, organize yourselfs against Microsoft. Make a stand. If enough people are heard by Microsoft, they will do something.
But as of now, it's worthless.
You can keep denying what I say, but all your doing is wasting your time. -
Your cause is unorganized, your doing nothing but complaining in a web forum. And when someone someone tells you this, you complain more.
Do you not see how hopeless you are?
If you want to change something, get organized, go after the source of your problem. But quit complaining here. -
I think everyone has the right to freedom of speech, or in this case, freedom of complaint. People on this forum are free to complain about Vista just as much as you are free to complain about them, as long as the posts are constructive and not offensive.
Although I do agree that most people are posting about pretty much the same issues, which does get quite annoying, it is something that happens very often accross all subjects, not just Vista bashing.
I don't necessarily feel your pain, but you should learn to live with it. -
So you think I'm making this topic because people are saying the same issues?
Whats next?
I'm making it because I like Vista?
I guess people who are used to not going into action, when told that the only way they can solve anything is to organize, would have a reaction like this.
If you want to solve anything, go to the source. You have the right to speak, but you are accomplishing NOTHING. -
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
Don't assume just because we complain, doesn't mean we aren't doing anything about it. Me personally, I am helping to create a viable alternative to MS Windows, so users do not have to put up with it's flaws anymore. -
So, pray tell, if all you do is complain on web forums, and then slowly give in to Vista, how does this accomplish anything?
Microsoft is still making their money, why would they care if your complaining where they can't here you.
But, if you were to make a stand, and show them they could lose money, you'd do what you set out to all along.
I don't agree with what you want, but if this is what you want, don't just complain, act it out.
The most important thing in a persons life is that they life the way they believe is right. If this is how you feel, then don't just say it, get organized, do it.
I won't be agreeing with you, but if you do get organized, it would be something I'd be proud of, even if it's against my Vista.
EDIT: This response wasn't to above user... But if some of you are, what about the rest? -
BTW, I know I've come down hard, but whatever you guys do after this, if you do get organized... Good luck. You'll need it.
And this is all coming from a pro vista supporter. I'm also an idealist. -
I've "made a stand" by not purchasing Vista. I don't plan on purchasing Vista anytime soon, well not at least until a service pack or something is released. In the meantime if I feel like trying it again, I have bittorrent.
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Problem with bittorrent is that is proves people want the software.
If you want to show them you don't want drm you're gonna hafta ignore Vista and complain to the source, that source being Microsoft.
There's no other way change will happen. -
My thoughts are that for many a subject, you hear more about the bad things than the good things. Why? People either need help or want to help others by warning them
Personally, apart from 2 XP or Vista threads, I have avoided Vista threads entirely. I was just snared in by the title 'cos I felt a "popcorn and ringside seat" moment coming up!
P.S. My point is in the opening sentence of 2nd paragraph, subtle as it wasLast edited by a moderator: May 8, 2015 -
Well I did say "If I feel like trying it again...". Also, you have to realize that most posts on internet forums are from people who need help with / are having problems with something. This includes bashing from those who are trying to figure out how to fix an annoying problem. It's part of a new OSs or new product's growing pains.
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I personally think Vista is fine, and alot of others as well, but I could see why people would hate it...
If it's their perogative to hate it, they shouldn't just bash it on forums, they should complain to the source.
If a person believes in something, then don't just sit around and talk about it, DO IT! -
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I must apologize though. If anyone misunderstood my post, then I'm sorry.
All I meant was, if you like Vista, that's fine, but if you don't, and you want something done, don't sit around and do nothing, get something done. Do what you believe in.
And I'm out. -
1. I'm glad to see the complaints about Vista. With the multitude of unique computer configurations it's supposed to work on, it gives one a good idea about how well the OS was executed. Problems actually seem minimal, if you take into account the reality that satisfied people very seldom feel the need to post their joy over an OS.
2. One of the purposes of forums such as NBR is to help out. By their nature, forums invite "complaining" so that users can get help.
3. Anyone is free to start their own online forum of the "Happy Happy World of Vista - No Negative Posts Allowed". Plenty of forum software available. I'm sure there's even an open source version.w00t!
4. I get tired of posters who whine about other's behavior.
5. Free speech is still permitted, as far as I know. And a free exchange of ideas is iminently preferable to one person's unchanging viewpoint.
6. Don't read the threads you don't like.
Lighten up and enjoy. Take the knowledge that you can and offer some back in return. :yes: -
I don't hate Vista, I loved it back when using RC2 & first couple of weeks of RTM. But it got old quick, and XP can basically do what Vista can (not talking about every little thing, I know how you nit pickers get).
I think Driver issues may have killed the "new car smell" of Vista.
Also other choices like Linux(Ubuntu) & OSX(plan on getting a mac next) intrigue me more than Windows now-a-days.
Windows(XP & Vista) is still the best at the moment mainly due to being the most compatible. But, Windows is like the rabbit whose leg just broke, and the Tortoise is slowly but surely catching up. -
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Also, assuming you've downloaded or written your own file reader in Linux, you could go into the Windows partition and say...hack the Kernel32.dll for fun. Or you could go ahead and edit the contents of Windows\System32\Config for your own amusement.You could also make a clone of the installed Windows OS for your own personal, if not legal, use. The list...and fun...goes on.
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That's why the store clerks usually stand watching over my shoulder. I've also demonstrated how to rescue lost Windows data with a LiveCD, incase Windows borks itself.
As long as you are honest and transparent, a reasonable clerk will let you check it out. -
Came to this thread a bit late, but I have to say that I find it quite annoying. When many users such as the Linux group "bash" Vista, we are merely attempting to educate users on the pitfalls of Vista and how it can affect your computing/life. This is one way we are attempting to change things. In order to hurt Microsoft, you have to be willing to take their money from them, which means running alternative operating systems and software. But people won't be inclined to do that unless they know the dangers of Vista and the perks of the other operating systems.
We have done more than just complain on forums. As Lysander said earlier, we are working to create viable alternatives. On top of that, we are working to spread the word. Part of this is on forums (such as NBR), where you have people actively looking at new things or looking for a change. The other part is marketing other solutions to hardware vendors, evident by the recent outpouring of support for Linux on Dell notebooks and desktops, which will be implemented very soon. To be honest, I find your accusations to be quite insulting, and I ask that before you start throwing around your own bashes, you take the time to look around and see the other side of the story. Browse through the Linux forum, the Apple and Mac OS X forum, and keep an open mind. -
By getting organized what are we gonna achieve? A protest in front of MS offices? Stop purchasing MS products? Mass mailing them about Vista?
I dont believe MS makes any of their OS badly just for the kicks.. It happened.. May be because of their eagerness to make more money or because some programmer forgot abt a line of code.. thats it.. and its there.. in your face, and mine.. We cant help it.. What we can do is to prevent something like this in future.. By helping others not to fall victims for the same mistakes some of us committed.. Or if someone did, by helping them..
I am a satisfied user of Vista.. But does that mean that i should ask all others to keep quiet and let me work in my PC peacefully.. Should i put a DND board in my forum space? or should i say, come.. we can help you.. I believe in the latter..
Why are we here? What is the purpose of NBR if its not for discussions? And how does a discussion become creative? By solving something.. For solving something, you need a problem.. We cant fix something which is already perfect.. I wonder why many of us are now extremely satisfied with XP!
Whats the point if we all sat here and cried how good frozen sun's laptop looks!!
As Lysander said, the protest has already begun.. People are getting organized.. Linux is on the move.. It will take some time though.. Linux is not a revolution..(I am not talking about the concept!) There is a misunderstanding on the part of MS.. And misunderstandings will take a lot of time and patience to get corrected.. Till then, human beings will continue to be homo sapiens.. We will ask for help.. and unless there are forums like NBR to help us out, and till those days of revolt come, there is no point in not complaining.. -
What is the purpose of this thread besides angering everyone? Zellio, you like Vista, and we get it. There is no need to show your support for the OS in such a manner (perhaps helping people who have the problems with Vista might actually be better?). You aren't going to change anyone's mind by doing this. People who dislike vista will continue to detest it. People who love vista will continue to love them. I really don't see a point in this thread
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Becaue what if all started behaving like "In NBR, no complaining and help requests please"
Ever imagined what will happen to a new NBR user reading this post? I would say he/she will never leave NBR.. -
Zellio, are you nucking futs? I think Vista is the greatest thing since iTunes. Oh wait, iTunes doesn't run under Vista yet. Hmmm...Bad example. NM.
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Very bad example, since Itunes DOES run under Vista with no problems.
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haha..
i will second that.. iTunes does run..
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Ohhh a flame thread a flame thread... can I play?
Seriously.. um, are you joking? You're right Zellio, no-one should post bad things about anything (ever) because no-one will care, get a new computer and find it's a complete piece of kak, well don't post here, write to the maker because no-one here cares, only the manufacturer will care.
Yeah, because no-one reads these boards to find out what is good and what is bad, nope, never happens, I have certainly never read these boards and decided to buy something (or not) because someone has said it's good (or not). -
I think the biggest issue has been that nobody has developed a Windows COMPATIBLE operating system that runs programs built for Windows. Then and only then will we see new innovation OS features and competition.
Today the biggest killer is that most people have invested $1000's in software that runs under Windows as well as anchored our income in using software that only runs inside windows.
I feel the lack of options leads to frustrations that make us complain when promised features are eliminated at the last minute (or 2-3 years before the last minute) and the "improved" portions are simply rebox'd decade old solutions which need so much patched code to get them to run we might as well just run the old OS instead.
That said Vista is pretty and nice and in no way different from when XP was released. XP sucked pretty hard then too...now it's not horrible and Vista is something to avoid if you make your living from your PC. Give it time and all will be fine...
No to those who are deluding themselves that they are offering options by bringing us Linux and whatever OS...catch a clue, you will never ever catch-up. Mostly because there simply is not the motivation to learn to use new programs under an OS that is completely alien to the average person. Develop the ability to run seamlessly all those applications we use now under XP and you CAN catch-up in a hurry. And I am not talking about using virtualization as that will just be running Windows inside an emulator...oh, joy.
Plus if your OS is cheaper and more stable all the hardware makers will beat a path to your door and so will the developers. But until this happens it's simply spitting into the wind. And remember even Linux and the vapor ware that is the MacOS's are not very compatible across flavors, hardware platforms or even versions in the case of MacOS's... -
Go get the facts and stop trying to spread FUD. -
Hey Ya Lysander:
please explain FUD? Is that some form of adolescent profanity in an attempt to intimidate and belittle?
BTW, your bullet point analysis is pretty much consistently missing my point..too late to cover it all but wow, I have to say it sure reads as pretty angry.
I will mention a couple...you claim that a Windows compatible OS will have the same flaws as Windows...simple question...why? Aren't Linux developers alleged to be superior?
As for the targeting of teenagers to use Linux...yeah, Apple tried that at one time...and we all see how well that worked out for them.
In response to my suggestion that if an OS is cheaper the hardware makers and developers will flock to it you respond with a true classic:
or did ya leave something out. The actual argument you were searching for was the issue of MS's forcing system makers to use their OS or pay huge fees for offering other OS's. If the mfg's could make more offering another OS they would...it is that simple. They can't...and that goes back to my original premise of to truly compete the OS needs to run all things Windows as if it was native to the OS. This would allow the transition from the Windows world in an efficient and economical fashion. Your position simply does not seem to appreciate that fact.
And really sweetie don't get your knickers in such a twist...you are not being attacked it has nothing to do with you personally when it is suggested that the current approach is the wrong one. This is just software not a religion or way of life. Maybe try considering the implications and not the pseudo-religion some seem to turn such things into.
I was there when Linux was handed out to the public at Comdex in '93 (or was it '94??) I spoke to them across a folding table covered with a bad sheet, about it and loved the option, we all did then because we thought it meant competition. But it has taken too long to become even close to a viable OS for the mainstream. Partly because there were simply too many variations and no direction to the OS. While there was a basic framework all flavors of Linux are based on, each has subtle differences that can cause frustration to the end user. If you want to truly compete and play to win...then add the ability to natively run Windows apps...all of them. Again a business with anywhere from $1000's to MILLIONS invested in software and training will not switch the OS no matter how many tantrums are thrown.
One point you came close to getting right...it is all about the money...but anarchy is not conducive to actually making any.
Last you seem to completely gloss over the issue of forward and backward compatibility to which I alluded. Not an area other OS's excel at. Sadly MS does this pretty well. I can still run many DOS apps in Windows. I can dig up old FoxPro apps, recompile them and they will run as written. And those were written before MS bought FoxSoft. I have clients running apps I first wrote 15 years ago...try that in other OS options.
But I could care less what OS I am using...that might be the difference and why I can see the issues for what they are...just business decisions. Dude it's simply a computer...a tool like a wrench, hammer or a drill...nothing more.
I do see the point you were trying to make...it is just my point had nothing to do with what you were suggesting other then I was suggesting that the direction the alternative OS's have all incestuously taken is the wrong one. And the lack of directly taking on MS on the desktop is a mistake. No doubt the server market is a completely different issue where Linux is actually pretty solid. but that market is vastly different then the desktop which is where the money resides.
Anywaaaay...there could be more but it's late...it was fun... -
FUD = Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. Apparently is also a scottish coloquial for a woman's naughty bits.
1) Need to use proprietry code. That pretty much ruins the idea. MS stick a whole lot of proprietry APIs and whatnot in their OS.
2) Defeat the purpose of an alternate OS. Why not just use Windows if it works for you?
The way Windows APIs work is that they are directly tied into the Kernel (less so with Vista), which is something that Linux generally tries to steer clear of. Linux uses a more modular design.
As for the targeting of teenagers to use Linux...yeah, Apple tried that at one time...and we all see how well that worked out for them.
Partly because there were simply too many variations and no direction to the OS. While there was a basic framework all flavors of Linux are based on, each has subtle differences that can cause frustration to the end user. If you want to truly compete and play to win...then add the ability to natively run Windows apps...all of them. Again a business with anywhere from $1000's to MILLIONS invested in software and training will not switch the OS no matter how many tantrums are thrown.
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Complaining on a web forum does no one any good.[/quote]
Won't it?
It informs potential customers about what problems they may run into. How is that not doing any good? I'd say that's about the best thing anyone can do. Make sure people know of the good and bad sides of the product *before* they buy it.
On the other hand, exactly what good are anyone getting from your perpetual whining because some people *DARE* to criticise your personal religion?
In case I haven't yet made myself clear, there is *EVERY* reason to criticise Vista for its faults. Making the problems known does vastly more good than whining about "Vista bashing".
That is pretty far out.
That does not make sense.
Who's whining in a web forum? Who's talking about all this crap, without doing anything about it? Those who criticise Vista *are* doing something about the problem they perceive. They're warning people of the problems they encounter, and they're asking people if there are workarounds and solutions.
That is because, regardless of what you may believe, MICROSOFT IS NOT THE CENTER OF THE WORLD! It is because some of us think the poor suckers who are going to pay for Vista are more important.
I don't *care* how Microsoft feels about Vista. The reason I used to ask (critical) questions about Vista was because I used the product, and I wanted to know if there were ways to make it less frustrating. The reason I've criticised Vista is that I thought it was frustrating and wanted to inform potential buyers of the problems they might face. I'm not criticising Vista just because I want Microsoft to fix it. I'm criticising it because I think if people are going to spend hundreds of dollars on an OS, the least you can do is share your experiences with them before they do so, so they know a bit of what they're getting into.
I'm sorry, but I've had it. I happen to love Vista, but I do like it when people stand for themselves. But instead you spend your times whining on web forums?!
I, on the other hand, don't care about your personal love affair with Vista. I appreciate the few factual posts you've made about things that actually work well in Vista. But all the whining because people dare to disagree with your personal obsession/religino? No, I really don't care about that.
Please, no. Don't use moronic acronyms that make you look like a 5-year old.... (No offense, but it is such a stupid acronym)
A lot of companies use old software that only runs on Windows, and they can't just spend millions on a switch to Linux just for idealistic reasons.
I can't swtich to Linux because, as much as I like working in it, it doesn't run my games. I have quite a few of those, and I want to be able to run them.
That's the problem Linux will have to face up to if it ever wants to become a serious contender. Right now, Windows has the advantage of being able to run ~20 years of legacy software. If you wait 10 years, it'll have the advantage of being able to run ~30 years of legacy software. The "problem" is not going to go away, and the sooner alternate OS'es catch on to that, the sooner we'll see some actual competition.
OS X runs on two platforms, doesn't it? x64 and PowerPC (plus the one they used before PowerPC, was it some sort of MIPS?)
Windows can beat that easily. (x86 and x64 alone would be the simple answers. Then there are the old Alpha and PowerPC versions along with a few others)
Anyway,
Remember Windows ran on the Dreamcast? Windows runs on tons of mobile phones as well. I'm not aware of any toasters running Windows though...
)
And then there's Windows CE which runs on quite a few mobile phones and small platforms including a game console.
Your point?
As for x64, I'd say Windows handles it *better* than Linux. (or more specifically, Windows handles 32-bit compatibility in 64-bit mode better than Linux. The actual 64-bit mode leaves something to be desired under Windows, but you hardly get perfect app compatibility under Linux either)
But I think you missed the point. Windows will, out of the box, run pretty much *any* old Windows or DOS program. hell, it'll even run quite a few Linux programs, because it supports the POSIX api's...
Linux has vastly bigger problems with backwards compatibility. The API's change and require apps to be updated occasionally to keep working. The reliance on compiling everything from source code makes it tricky to compile stuff that was written for way older compilers.
I'd say all three platforms have pulled off some impressive compatibility feats. Yes, Linux runs on probably more platforms than both OS X and Windows. But the other two have far more impressive software compatibility than Linux. -
OSX actually runs on x86, x86-64 AND PowerPC.
And FUD is actually an old term, used internally by IBM for their sales tactics.
And no, Windows CAN'T run on an iPod. It depends on too many specific things. The Windows Mobile kernel is a completely different codebase than the desktop/server kernel.
And what are you saying about Windows handling 64bit better than Linux? It's nowhere near the level of native support because it depends on all 3rd party manufacturers to make drivers for it. Linux? Soon as 64bit came out, it was just a recompile, and almost everything worked natively. App compatibility is fine with the 32bit libraries in Linux, but many manufacturers like Adobe haven't made 64bit versions of their software for Linux, yet they have for Windows.
Yes, the other two may be more compatible than Linux, but it's at the expense of doing things correctly, and it isn't an issue with hardware that is properly open-sourced, because the drivers are changed by the kernel maintainers, rather than depending on someone at some company deciding whether or not they want to support it. There's a reason my HP scanner works under Linux-x86-64, but doesn't even have 32bit Windows XP drivers.
In case I didn't make myself clear in the other topic, stop the vista bashing.
Discussion in 'Windows OS and Software' started by Zellio, Mar 31, 2007.