July 2013 Windows 8 market share

You just compare something that is totally unrelated. Vista uses more memory for caching to speed up overall OS responsiveness. Bad RAM is unused RAM in Vista. You keep saying our IT guys run this or run that, but you don't understand anything technical. Here is the thing that make us different. I actually have my hand dirty while you are watching someone else doing it. It is two different things. You might want your guys to join the forum, so I can talk to them. I would love to measure my knowledge with those guys too. It would be a great opportunity to measure myself.

Of course, Windows 8 would not offer you any benefit if you are just a casual user. I make a living from connecting machine together and make them sing. A lot of Windows 8 features would matter to me.

 

Adapt! Adapt! Do they have a choice? Can they complain to anyone and get a different OS?

Fine, once they get their program up on the screen that's what matters. But if that is all that matters then why change so drastically how you get there to do that?

 

Nope, it is part of my IT policy to keep up with new technology. It is being implemented from top down. I can't say too much in public forum, but we have one of the most advance network in the state. The part of it is we keep up with new technology. I get paid to solve my users' problems, and everything has been address before the deployment. I actually found bug that MS can't solve too.

Our users will always have latest and greatest technology for them to complete their tasks. My backbone network speed is one of the fastest in the nation. That's all I can say.

 

How is that when I'm comparing the performance of two different MS operating systems on the same hardware?

What is "bad RAM" and where did you get that term from?

No, my good man, my hands got dirty on many occasions, and still do - only in a different area - and as for understanding technical stuff, you ended up being the one who didn't understand a particular piece of technology when we last had a similar conversation...remember?

I left IT waters when W2K was flavour of the day, that's why I refrained from citing any direct experiences in the first place.

As for measuring yourself, submit a resume - if it's a great one you might get an interview - and if you impress the interviewers you're in. Then you can compare notes with these guys/gals one-on-one, while learning how to manage a part of a *really* big network of global importance.

My hearing is officially damaged from decades spent in another industry, so make them sing all you want, as long as they don't do it under my window...:hi2:

 

As you should be, and I'm not even going to pretend that my choice is a good choice for anybody else, but I have switched over to Directory Opus a few years ago, and I've never looked back. In addition to fixing a number of disfeatures, it is also far more powerful than Explorer, with a whole host of features built-in (archive handling, fully programmable batch renaming, powerful ftp client that actually works, and on and on), which is something that you may or may not need or even like. It's also highly configurable which, as I'm sure you know, has its cost you have to pay for the benefits. In addition, it's not free, and it's in fact very expensive as far as file managers go, relatively speaking. I think it's worth a look, and it is perfect for what I do, but I won't promise that you like it. You'll have to decide for yourself.

 

If history is any guide they'll be languishing for some time. The best they have going is not supporting XP any further.

Yeah I'll be watching those subscription returns. How fast will they be fixing broken stuff and certainly what innovations are coming to a spreadsheet, word processor, file database and presentation software package. Ah yes - Hotmail is a good example.

Over-Engineerer's they are. Assimilate in the cloud. Now.

 

That's rich. Assimilate. Period.

But their computers are never off, programs never closed, single purpose machines that could just as easily have W7 on them.

That's not an argument for 8, it's submission.

 

Yeah, I remember our last conversation. You said PRI. I said SIP Trunking. I said root bridge. You said something else entirely. I said OSPF. You said something older than RIP. I said STP, and you said something else that doesn't exist in my lifetime. Fast forward to present, you say Windows W2K. I say Windows Server 2012. We have 13 years span in technology gap. I don't understand your old terms while you don't understand mine either. I don't really looking for the job. I just want to see myself against someone else. Heck, recruiters call me many times. I don't need job interview. I just need to see how high I can go because I like to push myself.

You have to admit that we are in different decade of each other. The technology that I am dealing now doesn't exist in your time such as DirectAccess. Windows XP/Vista don't know what to do with this technology. It is old school OS. Windows 8 offers better way to do DirectAccess. That is just an example. That feature is difficult to implement in Windows 7 and Server 2008R2 environment. You can ask your people about it. I am not going to lecture it here since I don't get paid to post.

Your people might have to learn from me. Ask your people about DirectAccess tomorrow. Let see what they are going to say and let me know. By the way, I do enjoy talking with you though. I love the way you take my post apart while discard something else that you don't want to hear or you don't understand. You made my day.

 

Windows 8 is better when uses with SCCM 2012 and Server 2012 AD. Try DirectAccess in Windows 7 and Server 2008R2 environment. I am the guru in networking, and that feature made me sweat. Just saying...

 

Office 97 Pro already has all the tools the majority of office users will ever need to create their own documents. It just doesn't look as cool as a newer version, and it can't open the newer file formats created by Microsoft.

However, in this day and age, I don't see why people pay for Office anymore. Maybe because that is what they are used to? I can understand getting it for free, but why pay for something you don't have to? Free office programs maybe weren't as developed as Microsoft Office was before, but right now they can do anything that the Microsoft version does, and they do it for free. Years ago, I used to just get by with Open Office after switching from Office 97 Pro simply because I needed to be able to open up newer file formats. But now it really is a lot more powerful and you don't have to settle for anything.

 

Checking out whether a Fortune 20 Company would offer you a job would be a rather good way of verifying how high you could shoot, don't you think?

Your point being?

I doubt that. Very seriously. Speaking of learning, a book to help you understand the basics of the world that we were previously discussing:

Understanding Data Communications, 7/e by Gilbert Held

On that note, I'm still waiting on a definition of "bad RAM" from you, as well as the source of the aforementioned term.

The reason why I'm not responding to every single thing you write is the fact that I don't want to take this thread OT like we did with the previous one.

If you want a game of ping-pong, by all means PM me...no need to choke everyone else around here.

 

LOL! I might already be in fortune 20 company already. Don't you think? That's why I am looking for more challenge. I look at that book, and I think I am way pass that book already. NAC would be more interesting topic for me.

Okay, I am going to explain the term bad RAM for you. The concept of RAM usage in modern OS such and Vista and later OS. Bad RAM is practically unused RAM that isn't being used by OS. Windows Vista/7/8 or even modern server OS are trying to cache RAM as much as possible. When the user call for programs in the OS, the data is already being fetch into the memory instead of being call from the hard drive. Hard drive is always slower remember? Since memory chip becomes cheap and plentiful in modern computing, MS design OS to take advantage of memory as much as possible for the sake of performance. It doesn't just left the memory unused like XP day. Of course, OS will release those memory back to the programs that need more memory to operate.

Well, I hope you understand what I am trying to explain the term for you. Bad RAM = Unused RAM because it is being wasted for standby or whatever reason in OS. Well, Windows 8 does it pretty well. The mechanism is step up from Vista and Windows 7.

 

That's fair. And I don't doubt your abilities or intelligence especially regarding your area of expertise.

You still don't explain or justify though why the rest of us who don't need or use that feature would or should upgrade from 7, or accept when purchasing a new machine that we don't have a choice in the interface we have to interact with?

They could've just as easily bolted the 7 interface onto it and called it Windows 7 for Direct Access Networks, no?

It just feels gimmicky and dishonest to me. People have matured a bit from the old days and wouldn't necessarily run out and buy that Title thinking it had something that would be better.

 

No I don't. Honestly.

I don't think you are, since you don't understand what a PRI is, as shown in our previous discussion, and let's leave it there, pretty please.

I understand what you're trying to say, but I've never ever heard anyone use that term the way you do...oh well, I guess I just learned something.

 

PRI is old!!! If you ask me about W2K, I probably can't answer you a whole lot because it is old! Oh, we use different term in my field. Older people called call manager in old Cisco VoIP while newer generation called unify communications manager. It is practically the same thing like old world meets new world.

Most of newer design in VoIP will go with SIP Trunking instead of PRI. That is how the technology trend is. Cisco uses SCCP. Other vendors use something else that I can't remember. Cisco called line that connects between switch is Trunking. Other vendor called tag port. Well, it is practically the same thing. Standard is 802.1q while Cisco used something else proprietary, but it was long time ago. Now, they use 802.1q like the rest of the industry.

I might be the big guy behind your company IT that want to have fun in this forum.

 

Nope. I happen to know the man, and he wouldn't be posting here even after five hits of bad acid.

I don't know in what time zone you're in, but I'm in EST and it's time for zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz so I'll bid you a good night, and yes, my PM invite stands.

 

Man, that is a tough question to answer. I am not here to convince anyone to switch the OS. I just voice my opinion just like other members in this forum. I can sum it up for you if you want to know. Windows 8 comes with built-in antivirus perhaps it saves people money or some newbie who doesn't know how to set up or install antivirus. It works real well with EFI. File History function is nice and fool proof if you want to periodic backup your computer. OS runs faster and more secure overall than Windows 7. Wireless display in Windows 8.1, so you don't have to keep buying Intel wireless card for that feature? Time machine like Mac that easily to restore OS to factory default is also a nice feature to have. You have to pull WIM back up on Windows 7.

DirectAccess feature is very technical topic. It is more used in enterprise rather than home user. It involves IPv6 implementation that many organizations don't even run. Let just say it is easier with Server 2012 and Windows 8.

I think MS is trying to have one familiar interface across different platform. Computing world is different today than couple years ago. MS is trying to gain itself into mobile market. Same story with Intel. Look at Atom processor that used to be step child. Now, it becomes Intel golden ticket for mobile computing. Heck, I am even implementing single sign-on protocol in my organization. Things just change, and I can't resist the change. All I can do is embraced it.

 

It's turning Cookie Cutter. Ticky Tacky. Sameness. Uniformity. Sky Blue. Apple-ish. Non-Unique, save for the theme. Even Access 2010 forms, Hotmail, the same thing.

That pig got perma-Brows and perma-Lipstick and now a perma-Wig too.

Microsoft has always added little some-things like Gadgets, Defender, Defragmenter, System Restore, System Image, Backup, Biometrics etc. - Reduced products that people were buying separately. Have given for free an Anti-Virus since 2005. They didn't think the internet would take off, and actively ignored it until painfully obvious.

They've bought or copied so many things other people were developing then trashed it. It's hard to even remember which products they were innovative with.

The old school IT guys did things that were innovative and industrious with limited hindsight. Before the internet.

Maybe everyone feels like they're getting boxed in, railroaded. As a consumer I always had the feeling they were trying to do this. Now it's realized.

Ah but as an IT person - don't worry, even if it doesn't change - stuff still breaks. For that you'll always be needed.

 

PM's does not antagonize the public to possibly join in the fray, what's the fun in that? Could we please get back to topic or start other threads?

 

The public's already in the fray. They're saying it with their wallets. At some point, they will cave in as there is no alternative. But for the most part they're saying they can live with a tablet OS on their Android, err, Phone because that's probably the best way to use it. On a mouse or touchpad driven PC, not so much.

 

LOL, not my point but too true. The point too though is by the time consumers reach cave in there could be another alternative. While Linux seems a bit behind M$ in the OS it almost always catches up on the UI. Since now for a lot of desktop users it only needs to catch up and/or surpass Windows 7 UI the time may be soon, if not already here, that it can start to look like an alternative. While Linux can still be a bit complex not everyone needs M$ office and can do with alternatives there too.

This could then eat severely into market share. My main concern here is reaction time. If it is cave in time the market will be in a rush for new products. If these are not Windows based then it could rapidly increase market share from another source. The time needed for M$ to push out an answer may be too long to prevent major market share loss. The public could start loosing more confidence in M$ and then we fall further in the downward spiral. Of course this is all doomsday etc. but someone has to say it.

The fact it appears consumer frustration is delaying Windows 8 machine purchases should be a clue to M$. The question is what in the end this frustration will lead to? The other questions too is where these same issues could lead business as well....................

 

Yeah I saw what you were saying - but I was trying to get back on topic

Anyway. It's going to be up to the system builders to start offering alternatives with the purchase. This will be hard. Considering that chips and graphics were always compatible with Windows - that is an example where the barrier to entry isn't impossible.

I would like to see two viable competing OS'es for this gigantic PC market but are we ready for it?

Isn't that 4 PC OS releases since late 2006 (in around 6 years time period). This is what has me wondering if things might be changing or getting desperate.

What if 8.1 isn't a huge success? Where would they go with it next?

Only Microsoft could get away with doing such a thing to a flagship product (think New Coke attempt).

Hardware has for the most part caught up with software demands so maybe the market is ripe for change and something else can get in.

-------------------------

Edit:

I for one, since getting a recent new machine that is much faster than before, and since been participating here at NBR (not a normal activity for me),
I've been actively searching out alternatives for just about everything computing wise. Before, I was somewhat submissive to a standard and didn't wonder off too far. The ability to get help and share information quickly has made this easier ... so even the passive can get motivated when circumstances demand it.

 

Personally windows 8 runs flawlessly for me once I got rid of metro. If you don't like it, stick with 7 and wait to see what microsoft follows up with. If their next gen platform looks like its going to suck, Then you have cause to be worried.

 

Well you do have to make the best out of your investment of time and money. After 23 years, starting with Win 3.0, I'm not "worried". I'm tired of being a guinea pig, at my own expense, being led around by a bull nose ring marketing scheme. They haven't been as much a success with their products as they have been at eliminating the competition. If not for Apple there would've been serious anti-trust concerns.

 

Ah makes some sense I suppose. Ive grown up using almost exclusively windows because that was what was always available and works well. Every time I've tried Linux I've come away with a headache, and I'm not spending a bunch of money for a machine to run osx so windows has only really been what works for me. Problem is who could come out against Microsoft and actively compete with a better product? Google? Who knows, but it would be nice to see Microsoft actually have to innovate and be at the top of their game.

Sent from my Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk 4

 

Windows is all I've ever owned. Apple, never, blah, only used it a little in the early days. The only reason Apple survived the early days is Microsoft supported them to avoid being the only OS available.
Some were quite enthusiastic about IBM's contribution with OS II back in 91-92? but it just evaporated. Some really liked it. The interface seemed quite advanced over Win 3.1. Not everything was compatible with it was the only problem I think.

 

Not really an alternative now to windows and that is why most people use it.

 

Me too

And Office

:cry:

 

Here it is OS/2 it was called: OS/2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read, then maybe weep, again. Interesting unfolding of events.

 

Thanks for the read. Had never even heard of it before.

Sent from my Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk 4

 

There is nothing come close to Windows for OS unless you run supercomputer, which is going to be Linux in this case.

Send from Dell Latitude 10 (2013) using IE10 and Dell docking station.

 

And there lies the issue. There is really no productivity suite(s) out there to compete with offerings from M$ or that are (or perceived as) only running on Windows. One of the last Office holdouts was Corel but with M$ bailout they eventually dumped Linux and now are a Windows based suite only.

Now if there is a change in the fact paying consumers, rather than open source hobbyist's, show up in the Linux camp then major software house will look to get their piece of the market. This remarkably is the same issue M$ finds now with Modern UI, building a market base. In this fact too though they are their own competitor, buy/use a normal full fledged application or search out a specialized Modern UI applet.

 

If windows XP had a better file explorer and a nicer theme, along with longer extended support, id still use it.

Oh well. W7/W8 it is.

 

I don't want you guys to think I have a lot of tech experience. While I'm older, most of my time past spent with computers is just that - as a user. Buy an application to get my task done. Optimize and fix to make the best of things - to get my work done. 14.4k modems to 28k to 56 to DSL to Cable to FiberOptic. Windows 3.0 to 3.1, Win95, Win98, WinME, XP, no Vista, 7, no 8, no 8.1. Tape Backups to WD HDD externals.

M$ bought Access and FoxPro. Killed Ami-Pro and (edit: Quattro Pro). They wanted Quicken and Quicken was going to sell. Sorry, Gov. said Anti-trust. You just want to kill it so M$ Money is only itself to compete. Money's dead. The market chose.

M$ moves the cheese deliberately. A users interface needs aren't for a tablet OS on the desktop. Their needs are for the products they're already using to be fixed. Most of us know we can buy any dashboard we want. They even had dashboards for quick and easy desktop access all the way back to Win3.0. Heck even menu driven DOS and DOS Directory File trees. Quicken used to be only DOS for the longest time.


M$ is a mini gov. all in its own.

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Maybe patent laws need adjustment.

 

Yes the patent system does need an overhaul. Just look at the way apple is using it to try to stifle competition.

Sent from my Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk 4

 

Rounded squares are the property of Apple Inc. and cannot be used to create nuclear weapons.

 

LOL!

People want to copyright one line of code used in a file spreadsheet or database. Ha - I made it work first - now pay up, sucka.

The patent system was never designed for this kind and amount of intellectual property. Over-whelmed. Even drugs mfrs. don't get to have a stranglehold forever.

 

Im being serious, e-patents are just ugh.... And i hate monopolies, they prevent competition, and thus they prevent innovation. Unfortunately, the people of our generation still thinks Apple invents everything...



And yet, i laugh at how iOS 7 seems to copy Metro...

In my heart, the IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad will always be the underdog champion of innovation...

 

No No, don't take my inclusion of your quote the wrong way.

I read it as funny (LOL) because you nailed it precisely with a simple sentence.

And your follow up is the truth.

 

Just makes me sad how many people try to defend their actions because they are an american company. Samsung isn't exactly amazing either, but I support them because of the features they have on their phones and of course semi open source android.

 

Every company has a bad side. In the end, pick the one that is less evil.

 

Anti-Trust pro competition laws should have forced them to open the kernel code a long time ago.
People wouldn't necessarily always go for a cheaper generic version. Especially since security and serviceability are important things.
In the end if there is one, it might be that this fork in the road should've been taken, instead of the protective one.
I'm sure we'd all be quite disgusted if we saw that which is hidden and how much waste there is.

--------------------------

Maybe the Urban legend of Bill Gates vs Automobile Companies was just too much and he said to programmers: figure out a way to get rid of that start button.
And this was all it took for W8's inspiration. Can't underestimate the power of mockery.

 

Seems like its happening all over the tech industry, so hopefully it will be addressed sooner rather than later.

Edit: Digging the Avatar btw rcb. Pretty sweet picture!!

 

I still can't believe that Windows and OSX users think that there are no alternatives to Microsoft Office.

Are you talking about Apple or Microsoft? I can't say I see many people defending either...

 

Whether people like Microsoft's OSes, Apple's OSes, or Google's OSes, I don't see ANYONE doing it because of national loyalty (hell, all three are American). That's a straw man argument.

 

There are more car companies than OS's and it doesn't seem to be a problem that they're not all American. As an American I can appreciate German, Japanese and Korean cars. Actually have owned at least 1 of each of those. I prefer American for heavy duty trucks (that I don't know are even built here anymore).

 

That is it, we all need a Chinese O/S imported and sold by Walmart, just have to be sure it is lead/BPA free and not made in a sweat shop of child laborers...........................

 

Solved!
Reward for your anguish, full battery of:

 

This is why I mentioned Corel Office. While still not 100% compatible it is close and if a huge consumer base showed up at the door looking for 100% compatibility to office and it were still Linux they would have obliged. The paying market base will eventually drive the market. Companies will always eventually follow the money. M$, at least for the moment, is bucking this trend with Windows 8. The question is how long can it afford to do so. This question is not so much for current lost revenue but loss of consumer base to other offerings. Once this happens M$ has huge problems.

Those are you not only have to correct the issues but you must stop the conversion trend. Then to get back to where they were they must even reverse the conversion trend. Every quarter of damage could convert to years of trend conversion. How often will consumers, especially business models, upgrade hardware and software? This has the potential of being a very serious problem for M$ down the line..........

 

Just because you think that Microsoft Office is the best choice for you doesn't mean that there aren't alternatives. I know that Microsoft Office has advantages in some aspects for some people. What I was getting at was that most people who use Microsoft Office don't even know of existing alternatives, regardless of their requirements.