June 2013, Windows 8 Market share

Why do you feel the highly mobile low power form factors are off topic? These are the only segments that are showing growth. Raw compute power is becoming a commodity that you can get as needed, always on, always connected platforms is where the industry is headed and despite the backlash from the traditional PC user is the direction MS needs to move to remain relevant. Laptops are quickly going the way of the Desktop (which ironically is seeing a resurgence due to AiO's and Tabletops).

 

I figure that it's all really just a moot point anyway (S0iX support or not). Aside from those knowledgeable about it like us on NBR and other tech websites, the truly important customers of Windows are 1) the tech-illiterate masses and 2) corporations buying in the hundreds or thousands to equip said masses at work with a computer. I'd imagine the more important features that they care for would be:

1) Can I understand the UI within a short amount of time using it?
2) Will it run Office? (naturally, though 8 RT initially couldn't, which baffled me)
3) Is it stable?
4) Will it run my software (Windows legacy and all that)
5) This is nearly all a moot point anyway, since most people just use whatever comes on their new computer (it still surprises me how many of my meatspace friends/family are afraid of installing their own OS)

Go out and ask people if they know anything about Intel's VT-d, for example. I doubt that more than maybe a handful would even be familiar with what that means, or what it does. At least VT-d has a very obvious benefit. But S0iX? Hell, I'd be lucky to get someone to tell me why we even have multiple sleep states.

I've always liked the way this video explains why Windows 8 has had such a tough time:

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Eh, got a point there I suppose. Personally, I wish that Windows Phone would be more popular than it is now. But, regardless of popularity, I'm enjoying my Lumia 900.

(I love WP7.5 and now 7.8 (and, in the future, I'll likely pick up a WP8). The "Modern" UI is great for those sorts of devices: smartphones and tablets. But that doesn't translate well in the desktop/laptop space at all. Let's hope that 8.1 has (or keeps) more sensible ideas like Boot to Desktop, and perhaps even a way to never touch the "Modern" UI stuff at all if the user wishes)

 

VT-d is really an important feature for Developers and IT Pro's but isn't that useful for the masses, S0iX is relevant even if the user is unaware, as this allows the always on/always connected Appliance Experience that the user craves. With Bay Trail-T Tablets and Hybrids most users will find a machine that does what they need including legacy support.

Those that need power, those form factors will remain but will become more and more a niche much like desktop workstations. For the record I own 2 Quad Core XEON Workstations but they are used for specific compute functions and one runs headless....it is my RAW Compute Platform.

 

Well yeah, but some of us don't want to revert to the dummy terminal and mainframe days of the 60's. Which is basically what "the Cloud" is. Obviously mobile platforms don't need this huge compute power (and that would be a very bad thing, since it'd eat battery like nobody's business), but at home I'd imagine that a lot of people still want something with some muscle, even if it's solely for gaming.

One thing that bothers me is that a lot of tech companies (not just Microsoft) just seem to assume that *every* one of their customers has an amazing broadband connection and build their ideas around that. Google is especially guilty about that with their Chromebooks, for example. At least int he US, internet options are pretty poo-tastic and in a lot of places outside the major urban centers, it's even worse. Hell, just a personal example but I'm limited to either a 1.5Mb/s AT&T connection, or we could move over to a TWC connection with a faster data rate, but it will be lower most of the day (due to traffic sharing with the neighborhood) and/or will be down completely for some reason. That's it.

Once Google Fiber comes around my neck of the woods, I might consider being more kind to "the Cloud". But until then, I'm staying local, and many of my peers are the same (for the same reason).

 

I hear you on the Connectivity issue, unfortunately this is an issue for the US. South Korea has around 90% Broadband Coverage, Japan and Europe have better coverage than the US. Emerging markets like India and China are building out the Wireless networks and even in rural areas of India I had a data connection.

What I really like about Microsoft's approach to their Cloud Syncing is they are using Bit Level Replication which even at lower speeds sync rather quickly. What sets Cloud vs. Mainframe is you can have dedicated compute resources that are not time sliced.

Of course the battle for the Living Room is in full swing between MS, Sony and Apple with Google secretly building their doomsday device

 

I would add devices like Roku to that battle too . It works really well for video streaming just like the 360 and Wii, but then again all of them suffer from the crappy ISP connection (though the Wii streams Netflix in 720p instead of 1080p like the 360, which probably explains why it buffers less).

I'm all in with Microsoft if they want to compete with Google Fiber and build where Fiber won't go .

But anyway, Microsoft's other products are pretty well done, imo. My school's Engineering and Science department has a software agreement with MS and I (and other department students) can download pretty much *everything* MS has ever made for free, except for Office (though the school in general gets 2007 and 2010 free anyway). VS 2012 is probably one of the best IDEs I've used so far thanks to the layout and Intellisence, I'm a big fan of Windows 7 (though 7 Pro came with my W520, and I bought 7 Ultimate for my desktop for $20 + tax since I didn't know about the department software at the time), MSE does a good job, I'm starting to learn Expression (though that's discontinued), etc. Though I have a problem getting SkyDrive to work properly with my phone/computers for some reason (haven't looked deep into it yet, since right now it serves as a Dropbox backup at the moment). Really the only thing I wouldn't be open to using would be Bitlocker, since I swear by TrueCrypt.

Though, I'm not saying that I'm a huge MS fan either. Apple and (Linux in general) have some neat stuff as well, and most of the time I use Linux/Unix for my degree work.

 

1) Biggest problem people have with Windows 8 imo
2) Check
3) Check
4) Check

Microsoft really screwed the pooch with their UI tutorial when they released Windows 8. I also disagree on some of the points in that vid, but that's another matter.

 

The reason it is off topic is the threads topic! this is about present market share not about CPU power consumption! Now if you were just to say Windows 8 power consumption gains in ultra low consumption devices will hopefully gain some market share, that would be different!

Now laptops going the way of desktops, not just yet. While yes some laptop, and desktops, are getting some functionality replaced by tablets or convertibles touch just does not work for productivity as of yet. So yes M$ gear up for touch but to gain market share quickly leave a well functioning UI for non touch users. What really irks most people is you just about had it and then the RC and all marketing tricks for the RTM Win8. everyone knows you could have just about hit the nail on the head and drove it home, instead you elected to hit the users thumb that was holding the nail for you.................

 

I expressed that these were the growth market Most users will be able to be productive and consume using the new Ultrabook Hybrids allowing them to carry one less item (the phone based Tablets). I believe 8.1 addresses most of the complaints.

 

While still off topic, for productivity 8.1 addresses no real complaints. It is an enhancement of the road they are traveling hoping again to get the "I can now deal with it" people on board. IMHO I do not think this is enough.................

 

Windows 8.0: boots to metro screen, no start button on taskbar, and the start key on your keyboard brings up the live tile screen.
Windows 8.1 (with certain options turned on): boots to desktop, and the start button on the taskbar launches the "all apps" list instead of the live tile screen.

Sounds to me like Windows 8.1 has addressed a lot of the UI complaints, at least if you change certain options (where you boot and what the Start key/button does).

 

Can't believe I didn't think of this when I wrote this post, but one additional reason I dislike the Cloud is because of the way things are managed on such schemes. Specifically, DRM and the fact that most Cloud software you don't actually own, only licence (though this isn't new...), *and* the subscription model that it follows. Especially the subscription model. For example, Adobe and CS7 (vs CS6), Office 365 (I'd rather just keep 2010 and "own" it forever), etc. I like "owning" my stuff, both as in actually owning my content (vs having it sold to advertisers) and not having to pay into a subscription model for software that was once buy-and-forget.

 

There is the original start button search the fact of a proper start button not a modern UI, although using RocketDoc this would not be an issue for me. There are many other issues that are still a step backwards from win7 that need addressing. My X just had her computer self destruct. I tried explaining that 8.1 would make it all not that bad for her and her family. You would have thought we were married again. kidding aside she just simply refuses any variety of Win8 and is stead fast on Win7.........................

 

I hate to break it to you, there is no ownership with any Commercial Software. You are licensing the use of the software and it can be revoked by the License Owner at anytime.

 

I really really wanted to like Win 8. But just like the video, within 30 minutes I was ready to toss my computer out the door. And just like the gentleman in the video said, I too operate multiple different operating systesm. Up to win 8 all previous operating systems were relatively easy to operate within a short period of time. Each had their quirks and each had their "omg awesome feature. Win 8 just brought rage up from nowhere. I was throuroughly suprised at how this got out the door for the non-tablet market. If they had only ONLY included an auto detection feature that automatically installed the right UI for the platform this OS would have nailed it right off the bat. Within one hour I had installed a program that brought back all the continuity and context I needed - i.e. I turned it into windows 7.75.

I bring this up because my wife who is just a normal computer user could not use it other than for surfing the web or normal stuff. It was just too unusable. Of course this is just our opinion but I see this same story so many places and I really believe this is why the OS is suffering. The only way the adoption rate will go up is through new (edit: computer) sales to be honest.

When I ordered my laptop I had the choice of Win 7 or Win 8 and I chose win 8 just incase they reserved future "features" for only 8. Thank goodness for 3rd party apps that make it behave like win 7.

 

After spending a few days with Windows 8, using became a lot easier. There are some things I prefer over 7, some that make go what the hell MS, others that are different, but don't bother me. I had to persevere in order to get used to it and the tutorial MS included is entirely worthless. I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Seriously, they changed the UI rather drastically, not everything is obvious, far from it and they can't include a tutorial that's worth something. Heck, I found it even harder to learn how to use the UI with touch than with a keyboard and mouse which is ridiculous.

In the end, I'm ok with Windows 8, but MS really did a good job at breaking things people were used to and making things not as intuitive as they should be. Once I got used to it, there are some features like mouse gestures on a touchpad which I really came to like. I feel that the first time you launch an app/feature for the first time, a did you know: you can close an app this way, etc. pop up would have been rather useful. Also letting the users perform the gestures like pulling out the charms during the video that shows how would have been a step in the right direction.

 

Well yeah, that's why I said "ownership". Honestly, I probably won't be able to keep uninstalling/installing Office 2010 for literally forever (this is dependent on Microsoft's will of keeping up the activation servers), but the most important thing is that it's simply a one-time fee and I'm done. Don't have to worry about the due date for the next payment or anything like that. Something I love in software (aside from completely free software like FOSS or Dreamspark).

 

Well, for now, MS is still offering buy to own licenses for products like Office, here's hoping it stays that way even if it's more expensive.

 

Man oh man you are the nag!

Do you get paid, in any way whatsoever ($ or s/w or h/w or even work itself), by either M.S. or a related company???

Many NBR people (most?) are here for themselves (me included), and get zero consideration by M.S./related.

Agreed!

And I don't see that ever changing. Not in 20 years, nor in 100 years.

 

I'm a moderator over at TabletPCReview and have been an IT Consultant/Architect for many years, I do not work for Microsoft but I make my living using their product stack, I own multiple laptops and tablets. It does seem if one disagrees with the majority here they are isolated and accused of being a plant.

I use Windows 8 and 8.1 on multiple form factors including traditional laptops, this continued bashing is tiresome, I bring another perspective and the "cool kids" seem to get all bent out of shape. If you look at those in NBR who have said anything positive about 8 gets disenfranchised, which can have devastating and chilling effects on a wide topical based community.

Traditional form factors are declining Quarter over Quarter and shows no sign of recovering, while the highly mobile platforms are continuing to grow along with Cloud back ends. Microsoft needs to move forward and in many ways kill off the traditional desktop paradigm much akin to with the shifts from Command Prompt to GUI Shell (3.11 especially) and the Windows 3.11 to Windows 95 shifts. I think we'll see Windows 8.1 will turn into the Windows 3.11 of the 21st Century.

 

Regardless of his affiliation (or lack thereof) with Microsoft, that's actually part of the EULA (at least for Office). Same goes with most software from other companies; the legalise is buried in those lengthy EULAs which basically state that you have no rights (aside from refusing to accept the EULA). It's stupid, imo, but that's what it says.

Personally, I don't have any particular reason to use Office over something like LibreOffice (a *very good* competitor to MS Office, and FOSS), but since I get Office 2010 Professional Plus for free through my university, I don't really care about the EULA terms personally.

 

Thanks Jarhead....

 

Thanks very much for the straight response! I appreciate that and I bet that other NBR people do too.

Win 8 simply didn't offer me much, or perhaps more to the point it didn't offer enough. And the changed UI does take a fair adjustment.

Perhaps I'll back into Win 8.1 via puchase of a refurb ThinkPad X230 that has Win 8 on it.

tiller is a fan (tilleroftheearth) of Win 8, and I consider him a solid reference.

I'm a bit limited timewise at the moment; again thanks for the decent response.

 

Unfortunately there are plants, though they may be far and few between. Of course with Win8 there are enhancements, if not it truly would have been a total failure not just the epic failure due to UI issues. Anyone pointing the good of the OS should not be attacked but should just realize the good, or better than Win7, does not make up for the UI issues on non desktop systems.

The desktop model is still strong but it is not a growing market but more of a hardware that just needs replacement as it wears out. This goes as to all the non touch devices, DTR's and even normal laptops. Since Vista, other than ram and storage, the base hardware needs no real replacements. With the advent of larger HDD's and SSD's with most hardware at least upgradable to 2GB if not 4GB or larger ram it is easier and cheaper to upgrade the system than purchase a new one.

Growth though is in the consumption hardware markets. Touch devices tend to be, at least for now, relegated primarily to those consumption devices. Win8 wants in on that market and anyone here agrees with this. I too prior to the RC envisioned running everything win8. My idea was first to have my DTR converted as a present M$ consumer. Once established get a RT Tablet for my portable consumption within the house and outside on the deck. Lastly my new Win8 phone, and then tie them all together. This is where M$ went wrong, rather than let the current consumer base slowly bring Win8 to the forefront it was deemed more important to force their current consumer base into modern UI so that developers could see market base to develop apps too. Even the 8.1 forcing the all apps menu is still forcing you into a portion of the modern UI.

This marketing has backfired on M$. The RT tablets probably would have eventually taken off but the negative that stigma had been placed on the OS from its current PC user base had done them in. Previously win phone never really took off so I can see where even Win8 phone may have not had much better success. I at least would have been a convert, I can't speak for others here though.

Maybe too with modern UI M$ was afraid of IOS and android as its prior success with win phone was minimal. Feeling it could ill afford this they took the drastic measures of forcing current user base. While Win8 may be a failure the upper management at M$ has to view this as a raging success compared to the prior Win Phone.

Am I mad, surely I am. I have been a proponent of the masses using PCs since the GUI vs. command line days. I applauded each advance making systems easier to use as they came. To just take such a huge leap backwards for casual desktop users is infuriating. I can always just get by, Win8 is not unusable but as I said infuriating as a desktop OS. Those large bland desktop borders is what kills me the most, the Aero glass in Win7 blending them to the desktop does not just keep drawing my eyes away from the app.

Many of us Beta users had great hopes, there were some small issues but they were resolvable. Although there are not many numbers out there I am willing to bet this is the first Beta to RC to RTM that most of the beta group for M$ never went for the RTM. Or if they did eventually reverted back to a prior OS or even a few M$ abandoners. In the end it is all just a sad shame to know what could have been and what is............................

 

Yep, that certainly happens around this neck of the woods. Pity.

You want to name names? Do you have ANY evidence to support the assertion that Microsoft has "plants" on the NBR forums?

 

I have intentionally stayed out of this for a while now, but I will say that the view expressed above, while often espoused by apologists for Microsoft's Win8 products, represents a stunningly naïve view of the computing landscape we are facing. The attempt to "kill off the traditional desktop paradigm", recommended above, would be plain suicidal for Microsoft, in my opinion.

For the record, I have never seen any evidence of such. As a matter of fact, apart from the clear differences of opinion, I have found contributors on both sides of the Win8 discussion mostly balanced in both praise and criticism of Microsoft, the company and its products, as a whole.

 

I respect your opinion Pirx, I use the desktop daily but I'm also seeing the growing maturity of both the Modern UI and Modern Apps and for the near future both will be with us and I expect that Windows RT and Windows Phone to merge sometime in the not to distant future...

 

The thread seems to be back on track, kudos for that, but I'll still leave a small warning.

There were a few posts that were totally uncalled for. Everyone is free to express their opinion as long as they abide by the rules and if their opinion strikes a nerve, take a deep breath and the time to think how to reply politely. We have a very vocal crowd that doesn't like Windows 8 here and that's alright, but that's no reason to lash out to those who support it and vice-versa. The crowd over at TPCR has a different view of things, though some still don't like windows 8 too much while others really mourn the loss of some functionalities, but are still going with it.

 

Nope, I'll let everyone make their own determinations.

The problem too is when people come in stating facts to support Win8 that are just blatantly false and/or misleading!

Edit; yes tablet people will have a different view and rightfully so!

 

What did he say that's misleading? Aside from his subjective opinions on Win8 (which he's entitled to), I didn't see him post technically wrong information about the OS.

The OS doesn't even matter anyway; its the work done on a computer that counts. After using 8 in a VM for a little while, I still hate the Modern UI (and the lack of more desktop-y features that 8.1 is promising), so I use a different OS instead (I find that 7 and Linux distros make me the most productive). Miltov has used 8 for awhile as well, and he happens to like it (and maybe even makes him more productive than 7, as far as I know). There are even productive people using OSX (imagine that, given the sterotypical Mac user). So long as an OS has the software you want/need and an interface you like, then it's a decent OS (for you).

 

Agreed that the "desktop model" is not only NOT growing but reducing.

Which is where the crux of the matter lies for M.S.

Not to mention HDD sizes that now exceed 2TB, which still needs care to make work with older O.S. and/or older s/w.

Win8 on smart phones?

Seems a stretch to me.

Money charged would have to be greatly reduced, but I can understand that M.S. would LOVE that as the growing volume is there in spades!

IMHO there's no need to go off the deep end on the possible failure of a new Windows O.S.

It's happened before. To name a few: Win98 (not 98SE), Win Millennium, Win Vista.

e.g. an early incentive with successful Win XP was that it might finally get 64 bit right.

And maybe it eventually did?

But as far as I could tell, public perception was that Win XP never did get 64 bit right. Q.E.D.

So that 64 bit thing was key to Win Vista; but it still turned belly up.

Finally Win 7 took off like a rocket, as it finally offered obvious stable 64 bit and enough other s/w stuff (gaming or whatever) to make it soar!

Whether Win 8.1 will soar remains an open question.

I'm willing to back into Win8.1 via an indirect laptop purchase, I'm NOT willing to lay out $100+ dollars for an OEM disc of Win 8.1

 

Hey hey come on now I am very productive on OSX. I find it much more easy to use and quicker. Between developing training plans in Office and post processing several hundred photos, or editing video and web design, OSX is a very mature, efficient and solid OS

Each OS has its own quirks and strengths. I find Win 7 is like an aged wine. It had its rough spots in its evolutionary road from lack of drivers and clunkyness in the 3.1 era through the infamous common BSOD to where it is now.

I find it funny we sit atop our hills and look at other users and categorize then neatly into defined boxes when the truth is each OS truly does offer its own strengths and weaknesses.

You final statement is the truth - it really is up to oneself to decide which OS is best for you. Win 8 though is definitely not for me. Win 7.75 is though. I am still surprised MS did not utilize the hot corners in a more useful way. I still keep trying to activate expose on my windows laptop.

It will be curious to see where MS goes now since they seem to be taking a page out of Apple's playbook with the reorganization by unifying a lot of the core items across their product line. Watching MS evolve over the years from a software in a box company to one that is trying to exert more control over hardware is fascinating and hopefully will energize the tech industry without totally sacrificing usability. As much as I like kicking back to a tablet and just plunking along with no brain power, we really haven't gotten to a point where this style of interface is efficiently productive in normal day to day jobs. And with the usual caveat - this is just my opinion based on what I have observed.

 

Yeah, not gonna happen with windows 8. That said, Windows Phone and windows RT becoming one OS for some tablets and phones would make sense imo, well that or dropping RT and designing WP8 so that it can also work on ARM tablets.

 

Expose's functionality is in the taskbar in Windows 7 and in Windows 8 Desktop. Click on tabs to switch between open windows, and mouse-hover over tabs to see preview images. That's all the functionality that Expose delivered; it just looks different.

For the Metro apps in Windows 8, the expose equivalent is a left side bezel swipe (a swipe in-and-out under default settings, or just a swipe in if you go into settings and reconfigure the left-swipe).

 

Or left hot corner, vertical swipe with a mouse.

 

This info is incorrect from the article and graphs provided and the information (math used etc.) is misleading it you took it at face value without investigation..........

Also all OEMs and Enterprise should forget getting Haswell or greater hardware as they are Win8 specific (or at minimum to the statement (Haswell was built for win8 not win7))...................

Edit I stand corrected, but I did not mean a full win8 on a phone but the new windows phone with the live tiles etc............

 

There are lies, damn lies, and then statistics. A fool would take statistics at face value.

 

I stand by my posts Tan, and as I said, chipsets that use S0iX are not supported on Windows 7 or earlier. Yes there are Full Voltage Haswell CPUs that don't use S0iX and they will support legacy OS's.

I'm going to graciously bow out as this thread is devolving into the same arguments and rehashed debates that the other Windows 8 threads have turned into. With that said I respect the community here and the diverse views and passion for the form factor.

 

Haswell works fine with Win 7... what r u talking about?

 

I was reiterating the statement made as to why it was misleading. So a feature being used from a select group of haswell CPU's does not make all Haswell Win8 only or designed in total for Win8. Again if you want to clarify some features may come out specific to Win8 and ULV etc. that is fine.

The numbers were just wrong in the post and I showed a link with actual numbers of well over 7% in 1/2010 and at nearly 10% by 1/31/2010. So the numbers were WAY off as the poster read the graph wrong as the graph shows Vista took 5 months to hit close to 5% market share and Win7 only 2 Months. While the article was also written 1/2010 and the OP was using older hindsight data just to show a point, not what market share was to that date.

The statement that the poster stands behind incorrect data in their post and/or misleading statements proves it all. So in the end a ULV feature to be introduced for Win 8.1 as a further sleep state for tablets does not make the ENTIRE CPU line designed specifically for Windows 8.0/8.1 etc..

Please all back to just market share only for this thread.........................

 

It is completely the other way around. Intel is always including new features on their processors, regardless of any OS. MS chose to support a feature on Windows 8 and decided not to release a small update to support it on Windows 7.

Saying that Haswell was made for Windows 8 is as asinine as saying that Haswell was made for OSX.

 

Maybe a wake up call!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
U.S. stocks hit by tech; Microsoft sinks 12% - Market Snapshot - MarketWatch

 

(1) Tech stocks in general had a big dip in the past couple days (Google and Apple are down as well, and AMD just dropped 13%).

(2) This sudden dip corresponds to the announcement that Surface RT was dramatically overproduced for demand. Nothing new has happened with Windows 8 in the past couple days, so the sudden dip isn't related to the general Windows 8 complaints that have been circulating the internet since last fall.

 

Read the M$ specific info and it is due to profits/revenue;
Microsoft misses targets as revenues slip - MarketWatch

Also this is computer related as not all tech dipped, it is computer tech, the S&P 500 is up slightly despite this. It isn't Win8 news specifically but earnings not being there, I read that as missed sales opportunity with Win8 not fixed!.....................................

Edit; I'm sure the RT machines are not helping either but if Win8 were a success from the get go so maybe would have Win8 RT Tablets............

 

Probably doesn't help that a layman will think, "It says "Windows", so it must be able to run all my software!" when in reality it's nothing more than a modernized Windows CE in essence.

Why didn't Microsoft name it something other than "Windows RT"? Probably would have been more appropriate to differentiate it from "real" Windows, like that found on the Surface Pro.

 

I'll agree that the naming conventions are a bit off but apparently many know that Win RT is not as good as Surface pro and that is not that great either. I say this as neither really sold well. But I stand by it somewhat as if Win8 were good not only would I have upgraded to it but instead of the Nexus 10 I have I probably would have got a RT tablet. At least during the beta that was the plan............

 

To be fair, I wouldn't say that WinRT and the RT Surface was not that great. They are just overpriced for the hardware and overall features (lacking apps, etc). If they go on firesale like the HP TouchPad (I still kick myself for missing that!) for $99, I'd surely pick one up just 'cause, and I'm pretty positive that Microsoft will have to firesell them sometime in the future due to recent inventory news. Considering how much I actually love Windows Phone 7, Windows RT might be a nice thing to play around with in the future (though not at the current $350 for the base model); if it can hook up to my phone in some way, all the better.

 

Price point for me was fine, the N10 was USD $499. I have the money just Win8 turned me off so bad there was no way I would support M$! I, and others, have responded to their tactics with our wallets. Either with our purchases or lack thereof. While I hate to see M$ starting its slide they can't say they had no been forewarned. This today is not the end but it is probably the first of many punches they will take before the round is over.

Now 11% hit, I am wondering if the share holders will be screaming for Ballmers head? I am wondering what the spin machine can do with this? AMD investors know it is a rocky at best stock, M$ investors are not so used to this. I mean tech goes up and down with good and bad times but WOW.........