MS IE - the EU seems to go, sorry, mad.

From the Guardian:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jan/16/microsoft-microsoft

Maybe the EU should make Microsoft sell just the Windows Kernel - everything else may be downloaded from the web...

Have these people ever heard of the word "convenience".

If you buy an OS you want it to work out of the box.
(at least in a basic form)
Also - if you don't have IE - how do you get another browser?

PS: If mods think this is off topic - I have no objection to it being moved - I think it gets greater exposure here though - and it is OS related.

 

Yeah, I have to agree, it's rather ridiculous. From what I've read, what the EU would like is for there to be something like a "Browser Setup Wizard" where you can choose which browser you like and then Windows will download it and set it up as the default. Thus IE would never have to touch your system. But sometimes it's nice to just be able to visit a website right away after installing Windows, before downloading another browser. And if you don't have fast Internet, downloading a browser could take a long time when you just want to visit a website without waiting. To be reasonable I think you'd at least have to have the IE setup files included with Windows so setup could be nice and quick, even if IE weren't installed with Windows.

That said, a "Browser Setup Wizard" type thing that started the first time you started IE might be a good compromise. Let people know there's alternatives, maybe have a short summary of the benefits of each one, but let people say no thanks and just start surfing on IE if they want, and then don't bother them again. Practically speaking, though, I think including IE with Windows makes sense. And how many people really are upset by IE being included? Judging by the number of people who bought Windows XP N Edition, not very many.

As much as I like Opera as a browser, I really don't have a problem with IE coming with Windows.

 

Neither have I.
I may use Opera now - but I use IE too (when I don't want to remember password - Upek)

Also:
Does IE keep you from using another Browser? No.

Then: What about the people who have got no idea about computers?
If you're say, 50, 60 and buy your first computer - you don't want to attempt to inastal a browser.

 

I'd understand if web browsers were something you have to pay for, but no, they're free. Why control competition between free products?

Is there anyone out there who really wants to buy the editions of Windows without IE, at the same price?

The Commission does many good things, but their fight against Microsoft is like trying to mate a dung beetle and a heifer. Silly.

 

It's crazy. Micrsosft not being allowed to put it own products in windows.

I suppose it's a bit like the EU saying to McDonalds, your not allowed to sell your fries with your bigmac, it's hurting the competition (crap comparison, but oh well).

 

The EU Commission has every right to ask Microsoft to separate OS functionality from their browser.
Why is every consumer forced to use IE to perform updates (I know about IE tab for FF but that not the point obviously).
People ought to be able to update their OS with FF, Opera or whatever browser.
I don't have any problem with MS offering IE as a separate option during install.
There just shouldn't be a need to have it to keep the OS up-to-date.

What would folks say if McDonald warned it's customers that having a BigMac with a KFC coke isn't possible, you have to eat it with a McDonald coke
(crap comparison, but oh well).
Maybe this one is better; Why should I be forced to use a Toyota navigation system in my Toyota car if I only wanted to keep the engine software up-to-date?

 

Well in Windows Vista and 7, the Windows Update system is now it's own application in control panel, try to logon to Microsoft Update from IE on those systems, and you'll be asked to launch Windows Update from Control Panel.

 

Do you know how many browsers there are? There are dozens of barely different browsers with different niches in mind. Whats to say that one gets included and one doesn't?

So what? Use the Toyota system for updates and then run whatever GPS you want to use for navigation. And this IS how it works. On new cars you have to use the factory navigation software if you want to use your audio system. You can't plug a garmen or a tomtom into your new BMW iDrive system, you have to use the BMW supplied nav, the BMW supplied audio, BMW supplied climate control, etc.

And under that system, it would be them saying that when you buy a BigMac you get a free McDonald's coke, though you can use a KFC coke too if you like.

The EU just dislikes that there is really a convent operating system that has a standard. I'm personally very thankful for it. Here's a news story that shows why IE is a good thing:
http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184

If Windows shouldn't included IE7, then why should it have games, a defragmentor, harddrive formatting utilities, hardware monitoring, basic drivers, e-mail, calenders, video editing, fax support, remote desktop control, harddrive encryption, optical disk burning, an IM program, or dozens of other things. IE7 is popular because the average person is incredibly stupid and needs a default.

Also note that your problem isn't with IE7 being bundled, its with website developers. I have the same problem with Firefox. I'm required to use certain websites, and those websites refuse any browser but Firefox for no reason. I can force them to run in Opera by changing the browser tag. Microsoft at least forces the use of IE because they use ActiveX which has been left out of other browsers (for security and probably lack of availability too).

P.S. If this happens to microsoft, the same thing should be forced onto Apple. They bundle tons of software and people insult microsoft for not bundling so much useable software. Yet the few programs they do include they get sued for. How is this fair? We should be able to move on from the netscape days, Microsoft has.

 

Yepp.
But: I wouldn't call people using IE7 stuzpid - it isn't the best browser in terms of security, but overal it works!

 

That's exactly NOT the point.
Just like I wrote and you quoted, IE should be an option, not mandatory to perform updates.

What? It's the website developers who are to be blamed???
Really? Not Microsoft who refuses to abide standards that are followed by other web browser developers.
It's because of IE's non-industry standard that website developers have to write webpages according to those standards and according to IE's.
Some of those website developers simply refuse to write non-industry standard pages so that's where IE wont work/show content properly.

Again, it's not about bundling, it's about integration.

 

Ah, yes, why is Safari bundled with Apple computers?

Hint: it's free. Like IE, and that rhymed.

 

It's not mandatory to use IE for updates. I've never used it, on XP, Vista and Windows 7, the update utility is seperate to IE.

 

Also... having IE installed doesn't impair the functionality of other browsers, Windows is happy to set another as a default browser.

Baserk, why make a useful, free addition an option?

 

Because its the EU...
The same people who classed carrots as fruit so some country could sell their carrot marmelade.

But until not too long ago, if you were, say, German and got a ticket in Spain for speeding there was no way you could be forced to pay up until you entered Spain... and even then, the police would have to arrest you...

 

I think a lot of customers are ok with IE. Keep in mind the perks of IE over Opera and Firefox. Mass deployment. Every tried installing Firefox onto 50 computers?

Group Policy integration. I think people forget that computers are no longer stand alone boxes and that they need to work with the network they are integrated into.

 

Exactly what EnterKnight said... if Microsoft is forced to stop bundling IE with their operating system, then Apple has to stop bundling Safari.

Another concern: How exactly is one to choose a different browser to use if they don't have one to download it from in the first place? It's definitely unreasonable to expect Microsoft to present the customer the option of choosing 3rd party products WITHIN THE INSTALLATION of their own OS. The most that they should be forced to do is a request prompt during installation that asks whether the customer wants IE installed, and a big warning saying that if they don't, they will have to find their own way of getting a browser installation file into their system

 

And even that can be dodgy - if you'Re 50 or 60 and its your first computer...

Speaking of first computer - what do you do on a computer with everything preinstalled?