MS-DOS Mode with Vista

When I first was using Vista, I liked it. Everything crashed once, but after that first crashed it worked. (Seriously. Every program I installed crashed once, but then was fine. I have no idea why. But they worked after that, so no big deal) It looked nice and ran fast on my new computer (in sig.). I got one Blue Screen of Death when trying out my webcam (my first BSOD since Windows 98), but that also was a one-time thing. Networks were easy to set up, and things were running pretty smoothly. Even the dreaded McAfee security suite ran well. But alas, this wasn't to last.

My favorite game, Civilization III Conquests, ran fine the first time I played it. Or perhaps second, after the requisite first crash that every program went through. I played it again yesterday, and no problem. Then I tried it tonight. It loads the game, I click the "O" button to start playing, and it crashes. I try again. Same result. I finally get it to load by starting a new game first and then loading, and it works. For about three minutes. Then it crashes again. This happened the second time I tried this, too. It's not just one save files being corrupted that is the problem - it does it with any save file. I originally started this game on Windows XP, but the install on Vista is patched to the exact same version.

Here is what Windows told me about the crash:

I checked out Mp3dec.asi, and found out it is in several other programs I have, such as Age of Mythology, Port Royale, Tropico, and Railroad Tycoon II. I haven't tested those yet to make sure they're working, but the file is the exact same one in each of those programs' directories. I know off the top of my head both CivIII and Railroad Tycoon II play mp3 files, so I assume the file plays mp3 files in-game. Civ crashed regardless of whether I had music on when loading, but played music and sounds fine until the crash when I did get it to load (before the 3-minute crash). I didn't try playing with no sound at all - it really isn't as fun with silent Artillery and Battleships so that isn't an adequate solution.

I've tried rebooting, reinstalling the expansion pack (Conquests) and its patch, restarting the computer, installing all Windows updates relating to compatibility (including optional ones and those released August 7th), running in Windows 98, Windows 2000, and Windows XP2 compatibility mode, and running with Windows Defender off. Still no luck. I've had the following updates installed automatically since the program worked without problems:

Windows Update Software 7.0.6000.374
KB931213 (Windows)
KB933566 (IE) - probably unrelated
KB931836 (Windows)
KB929916 (.NET) - probably unrelated
KB890830 (malicious software removal tool)
KB936357 (Windows)
KB935807 (Windows)
KB929123 (Windows Mail) - probably unrelated
KB915597 (Windows Defender, Definition 1.20.2825.10) - probably unrelated
KB915597 (Windows Defender, Definition 1.20.2829.2) - probably unrelated
KB938194 (Windows) - unrelated, installed after problem
KB938979 (Windows) - unrelated, installed after problem
KB935280 (Windows) - unrelated, installed after problem

So I've come up with three solutions:

1. Nuke Vista and reinstall from the disc Dell included. Turn off automatic updates before connecting to the Internet. Hope that solves the problem.
*Pros: Cost-free, might solve problem. Have all data backed up to flash drives as I didn't accumulate much data in two weeks.
*Cons: Will have to install updates when I go to university in two weeks. Don't really want to have to nuke Vista again after that. Network detection might force me to keep the updates anyway. Nuking Vista might not solve the problem long-term anyways.

2. Get Windows XP.
*Pros: I know it works in XP. So does just about everything else. Wouldn't really ever need to boot in Vista with XP installed.
*Cons: I don't have an extra XP license. Very expensive at the store. Might be able to get it cheap at school, but that's two weeks away and I don't really want to wait that long. Might not be able to get it any cheaper at school. Don't have any extra partitions except the recovery partition, which I could nuke.

3. Get Windows 98.
*Pros: I know it works in Windows 98. I have an extra Windows 98 license. Could do it anytime.
*Cons: Don't have any extra partitions except the recovery partition. My license is an upgrade license, however I do have a complete version license of Windows 3.11 that is not being used and an upgrade license of Windows 95 that is not being used should I need that for the Windows 98 upgrade. Can't figure out how to get my computer to start in MS-DOS mode to install any of these. Don't have an external floppy drive for Windows 3.11 (or DOS 6.22, which I also have an extra license of).

So, before I try option 1, I thought I'd see if anyone has any ideas for Option 3. Here's my plan of action:

1. Get my computer started in DOS mode. This was easy enough in Windows 95 - I installed 3.11 from 95's DOS mode just to see if I could, and had success. It's not so easy in Vista. Safe Mode with Command Prompt isn't good enough - I tried that already.

2. Get my DVD-RW drive recognized from DOS mode if it isn't already. command.com recognizes it from Windows right now, hopefully that'll stand in regular DOS mode, too. If not, I'll be searching for generic drivers.

3. Try to install 98 from the Windows 98 CD. Hope it accepts Vista as an upgrade platform. Unlikely, but it would make it simpler. If this works, I should be good to go.

4. If part 3 fails, install Windows 3.11. I'd need to convert the floppy disks to CDs. Ideally I'd be able to make 1 or 2 bootable CD-RWs from which to install, and just re-write them between the different floppy disk sections from the DVD-RW drive on my old desktop.

5. Get some generic drivers so Windows 3.11 will recognize my DVD-RW drive.

6. Install Windows 98 upgrade. Or 95 and then 98 if need be.

7. Get the drivers I need to run CivIII in Windows 98. Generic ones should work; optimization isn't a huge concern.

And the old desktop is staying home with my family - taking it is not an option. Not that I'd really want to, a single core of my Core2Duo is faster than my old 2.66 GHz Pentium 4.

So, anyone have any good ideas for Step One?

 

You can't start Vista in DOS mode. AFAIK you haven't had the option to start in DOS mode since 98. What you can do is just tell your BIOS to boot from CD and install either 98 or XP from there. XP is the better choice, imo. There's just too much stuff these days that 98 doesn't suport.

 

No wonder I couldn't find restart in MS-DOS mode, then! Used to do it halfway often in '98, thought it might just be hidden in Vista like the Run command is.

I'll try setting the BIOS to boot from CD first and see what I can get from there. XP is the better choice, but as 98 is the free choice for me I'll try that first.

 

I've got another option. Upgrade to Civ4.. It's a vastly better game anyway

And don't, whatever you do, don't switch to Win98. It is an ancient, unsupported piece of crap. The best thing you can say about it is that it's not Win95.

But still, a lot of software today won't run on 98.

 

Well, tried to get the Win98 CD to start with the BIOS setting changed and it didn't. So that plan's more or less toast.

And switching to Civ4 is not an acceptable solution. For one I prefer the CivIII gameplay and style. Catapults are bombard weapons rather than entire armies, there are much larger empires, armies, and wars, and the 2D graphics of CivIII look just as good in reality as the 3D ones of CivIV. Even if I played extra-huge CivIV maps with my 2 GB of RAM, I couldn't train as large of armies as in CivIII. But also, I'm writing a CivIII story on a fansite, so even if I played CivIV more, I'd need to have CivIII running.

So I guess I have three options:

1. Figure out how to make a boot CD out of my old DOS 6.22 diskettes or the Windows upgrade CD.

2. Buy Windows XP. Ideally for less than $200, but I'm not sure I want an OEM because then it'd be impossible to move it to my next machine in 4 to 6 years.

3. Find a Linux distro that is free and can run Windows program decently well.

Kind of gave up on the nuking Vista idea. In all likelihood it'd be a bunch of work for nothing, so that idea's out.

In the mean time I'll be playing CivIII on a Pentium IV Windows XP machine, and maybe even install it on my old Win98 machine and play a Tiny map to stick it to Vista in performance.

 

Catapults are certainly not "entire armies" in 4. Their entire purpose is to 1) bombard, and 2) get destroyed (because they have to attack to deal collateral damage, so they never last long)

Anyway, have you tried running the game in compatibility mode? (Vista still has that option, right?)

 

windows 98 will not run on that machine--you will not be able to get the drivers for it so don't waste your time with that...BUT

You have more than enough muscle for Microsoft Virtual PC
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx

Download that, install Windows 98 as a virtual machine inside it, install Civ 3 in the virtual machine

When you want to play, you load the virtual PC, switch to full screen mode and you will never know the difference

 

Gerry, your idea IMHO is the best one on this page.

 

I HIGHLY doubt that you will be able to run Win98 on that computer. I am building a computer around an ECS mobo just so I can run Win98 lol. You can try running it through DOSBox however I think it is too new. Anyway you can easily dual boot Vista and XP if all else fails.

 

Yeah, I tried compatibility mode for XPSP2, 2000, and 98/ME (the game itself requires 98, so I didn't try 95/NT).

Great ideas with VirtualPC and DOSBox. IIRC the latest (0.62?) version of DOSBox is supposed to run protected (?) mode games, so that might work. And I never would've thought of Virtual PC - I'll have to look into setting one of those up. The host requirements for VirtualPC 2007 say Vista Business/Ultimate/Enterprise or XP Pro/Tablet or Server 2003, though, so it may or may not work on my Vista Home Premium. Maybe it'll run in XPSP2 compatibility mode :laugh:!

edit: Wow, they're on 0.71 of DOSBox now. They jumped ahead of me somewhere.

 

Results

Tried DOSBox, got "This program cannot be run in DOS mode."

Might try Windows Server 2003 compatibility mode, worth a try.

Virtual PC said,

But it did install anyways. Will test.

Will update with newer results.

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Well, I've got the files from my MS-DOS diskettes copied onto a flash drive, each floppy disk occupying a seperate folder. I also have created a Virtual Floppy Disk. However, the virtual floppy disk is empty. I'm not sure how to get the files copied from my Real Floppy Disk onto the Virtual Floppy Disk. The Virtual Disk Wizard seems to simply create blank virtual disks, be they hard or floppy. How do I get the files from the Real Floppy Disk onto the Virtual Floppy Disk?

Current Status:



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Update: Found this page and I created a floppy drive and a floppy disk on my computer. Now my Dell Inspiron 1520, still running Vista, displays a floppy drive even though none actually exists. I've copied Disk One of my MS-DOS Real Floppies to it and will attempt to install it to the VM again.

 

can't you install win98 directly?