Microsoft prepares U-turn on Windows 8

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/381649/microsoft-to-make-key-changes-to-windows-8

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/windows-8-microsoft-s-u-turn-after-complaints-1-2921732

 

Wow. What took them so long?

I will be waiting for their update with bells on.

 

"8 with Touch"
"8 without" ???
she's either tipping the hand on moniker or revealing the internal labeling.
I don't think they will easily get past the "blame the user" syndrome.
like OCD parents trying to force their infant to eat unfit food.

no matter how they approach it, the acceleration of the de-PC'ing trendline won't reverse in the developed world.

I spent a few hours 'fixing' a windows 8 laptop for a real estate broker [i do consulting etc]. I've also worked inside the PC OEM patch for over a decade. Now, looking at it from the consumer end, its an unrecoverable error: twin evils of OEM bloatware basically sabotaging otherwise useful systems, then MS's epic fail by putting a preventative GUI on an otherwise good OS.

the broker is happy with the result...btw

 

I believe it when I see it. I'm not sure if this is anything more than what we already heard: An option to boot to the desktop, and a useless Start Button that takes you to the Start Screen. In other words, they're just putting lipstick on the pig. But, who knows, maybe when they say "reverse course", they really do mean a U-Turn. We will see. At this point, if they're not bringing back the Start Menu, Aero, and a fully functional Control Panel, so that we never have to see that abomination of a "Modern UI" while using the PC, it's still going to be the same old pig.

P.S.: And, of course, filetype associations defaulting to the desktop applications, as a selection during setup.

 

Even planes can turn around and fly in circles when they need to buy time. It doesn't mean the pilot will fly back to their departure location.

But in this case, I have to go with Pirx's insight: Kill the Pig! Give us the Bacon!

 

It's easy to spin simple news one way or the other:

In this case, it's more likely that news outlets are giving people what they want to hear, rather than the truth from MS. I wouldn't expect much of a "U-turn" at all; Win 8.1 will likely bring fixes and improvements as MS x.1 products have in the past.

 

Yes, that is my expectation still. The lipstick. On the other hand, Tammy Reller did use unusually blunt language in her statement, and there are references to the conversation she had with those FT people that hint at something more than that. But it is entirely possible that when she talked about "changing key aspects of how the software is used", what she had in mind was quite different from what many users would hope for.

P.S.: Alright, now let's talk shop for a minute: Big corporations of the size of a Microsoft are usually extremely careful about what they let key executives such as Reller say in public. While occasional slips and even rank incompetence remain a possibility, chances are that someone has thought very hard about exactly what terms she would be using in that interview, and they knew full well what the reaction would be to the words she used. Given all that, there is indeed a finite chance that we really are in for a major change in direction here. I guess we'll have to wait and see, but hope springs eternal, as they say...

 

I am skeptical after the fact beta where M$ despided to do its thing despite all of us. It wouldn't bother me to be wrong where they have an opportunity to reverse themselves with 8.1 and beyond but I also will wait and see................

 

Hmm. Release 8.1 with "improvements to the UI" which reflect the wishes of the customer base while keeping the general look and feel of Windows 8 intact (aka "The Lipstick"); or Remove Metro UI, reintegrate the Start Menu, and redo the control panel interface (aka "The reversal"). Which one sounds more like Microsoft to you all?

 

It's really too bad MS dropped the ball by trying to shove a tablet interface down PC users' throats.

The 'desktop' could easily have been an evolution of Windows 7, and the 'Metro' start screen could have been included, but as something you can pop up and/or set as the default if it worked better with your touchscreen system or if you just liked it better.

It really could have been a great way to allow PC users to install and use tablet/smartphone apps on their systems, while still keeping good 'ol Windows functionality.

They just wanted too badly to get ahead of Apple in the shiny/glossy/different looking OS screen and threw it's greatest strength out the Window - useability.

8 isn't too bad once you tweak and change most things, but it really is poor design, it's just not intuitive, at all.

You don't REALLY need the start menu, but you DO need some way of getting to an easy listing of programs, OTHER than typing the name out, which is useless if you don't know what it's called.

I'm looking forward to Blue, both for the ability to change the annoying things, and just to see how much MS is willing to give in and actually listen to their customers.

 

The problem is Windows doesn't need to strive to be Apple. They need to strive to be Microsoft and define themselves. An anchored old software giant doesn't need to follow another company, they need to lead and develop the Microsoft way, not the Apple way. It is good that they are looking forward and trying to integrate into the handheld market, but they could still easily do that with a Windows 8 tablet OS, namely Metro UI. Those comments are still confusing because there was no direct confirmation of anything.

No, Ms Reller, you shouldn't have done more. You should have listened to your customer base. You should *KNOW* your customer base. Clearly you do not. It shows how detached from reality the company is, and that's unfortunate.

However if they do backtrack and incorporate the Windows 7 style back into the OS, I will have gained much respect for MS.

And this whole business about how it doesn't make sense to press the start menu to shut down? What? It's been that way for 15 years. People expect it. Don't call it the start menu then. Call it the program button, or orb, or thingy in the corner... whatever. It's there, it's effective, it works. That's the whole point that customers are trying to make. They like what they have. Don't vary from the course too much. You're successful, keep the basics intact and revolutionize elsewhere.

 

“Are there things that we can do to improve the experience? Absolutely,” she said, “There is a learning curve [to Windows 8] and we can work to address that.” Now this is what gives me pause. This makes it sound more like then original statements about Blue in that, as Pirx mentioned, they are just putting lipstick on the pig.

The fact anyone is comparing this to "New Coke" is a severe embarrassment for M$ and Balmer. It is not quite true either as no matter what some of the things in Windows 8 will remain. I do not think anyone wants a full throw back to Windows 7. MinWin and other optimizations are still more than welcome. Even keeping touch and optional Metro for tablets is welcome too. We will see if after all this time if M$ is finally listening to its user base or if it is just making statements to placate us.

 

No, they literally dropped the ball they thought oh were smarter and hipper then you users are and we know best…Not! You know little to squat without endusers inputs and not listening to the users is the fastest way to alienate them there are good inputs and bad inputs that is why you listen and from there you can assess which best fits the bill without resorting to ramrod shoving down users throats without asking does it really help you.

That’s the problem a slow evolution from W7 to next is what is needed but breaking with something old is needed too but how you go about it and not listening is a bad thing that doesn’t no good to either parties.

There lies the problem making a install to get Desktop or Metro would go along way to improve their image as a multi platform O/S but Ramrod metro and you will loose out big time. Not all users want or need Metro.

Its called M$ online store….aka iTunes…of which they are not big time NOT! Sorry M$ aka Ballmar you got gamed by Apple and trying to play their game didn’t serve you at all rather you got SERVED by Apple.

Tweaks are nice and all but remember those 3rd party software will always invite security flaws that will be exploited by hacker/crackers and some will say where is the proof well put this way A/V are constantaly being attacked by malware/virus what is there to say that crackers/hackers are already thinking let’s hack the 3rd party start menu program and guess what we will make a new BOTNET to use. If I can think that and not be a programmer you should think those crackers/hackers most likely are farther ahead of me on this already.

It’s called Windows 7….

I will believe this when pigs fly…….

 

Nice link!

And your comments on "news outlets" are so very true!!

Also agreed on "I wouldn't expect much of a "U-turn" at all"

I wouldn't go quite that far.

But I do like bacon!

 

Windows 8 update public preview to be released in June

 

Interesting. In there it says:

So, lipstick it is.

 

Perhaps you wanna make that a blue lipstick?

 

What x.1 products? Like Windows Vista 6.0 to Windows 7 (aka 6.1)?

 

I always thought of Windows 98SE as Windows 98.1

 

The "Mango" update for Windows Phone 7 and the "Apollo Plus" update for Windows Phone 8 spring to mind.

 

Keep in mind that Windows XP SP2 was essentially a new version of the OS, so there is potential there, but MS never revamped Windows ME or Vista into anything users liked, so it's possible 8, even with 8.1/Blue will continue to be a flop.

I suppose it doesn't matter much for users, since you can still buy a PC with Windows 7 and it'll be supported for quite awhile. More than enough time to wait for Windows 9 to see if it's any better.

 

Well here is to wishful thinking and bubbles being popped..............

 

Glad to see MS somewhat come to their senses, or at least admit that they need to make changes.

 

They are side stepping at the moment. Kind of dancing around the subject without any promises other than I think they want it to be what it is today. They seem to want to find a better learning curve to get Windows 8 to work as it is now. Again the lipstick on the pig comments come to mind.

Still no mention of the original gadgets. If they would have come out with "Because of already known inherent issues with gadget(s) by default it is disabled in Windows 8" with and option to enable them I would have been fine. That is not what they did, They essentially made it look like a new and unmanageable issue with gadgets.

My other issue is DWM being broken and AERO Glass being disabled. This is my biggest hang up with Windows 8 as it may sound trivial but the appearance just gnaws away at me. I again can live without the start button but would like a boot to desktop as default.........

 

More like crab-walking. I will take a wait and see approach before I rush to apologize for my Windows 8 criticisms. This is Microsoft and they're not always one to admit their mistakes...

 

That learning curve BS is just another red herring here: Just about nobody has issues "learning" how to use Windows 8. Sure, Microsoft has completely abandoned some of the fundamentals of good UI design (such as discoverability), but in the end, with a bit of googling, any idiot can figure out how to operate the thing. However, the issue is that this way of operating a standard PC makes no sense, and is highly inefficient for many.

 

Agreed, but I am using "Their" language. Notice I never said the curve will get you back to the path you were on with windows 7 and neither do they! So in the end M$ just is tring to placate the end users until it can make a showing to its share holders. To admit to total failure could tank their stock until the new release. So read it as "All is good in LaLa Land" until it really hits the fan.............................

 

Windows 8 woes spark questions over Microsoft chief's future - Telegraph

 

The company needs new blood. I'd like to see him replaced. Windows 8 Tablets have been a failure, Windows 8 has been a disappointment as well as Windows Smartphones.

 

I wonder if they realized that copying Apple is a bad idea and not what consumers want. Some of us actually want Windows (the PC operating system) contrary to advertisements and techblogs. Strange.

 

Microsoft confirms Blue to be free for existing Windows 8 users | ZDNet

IT BETTER BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The rumored boot to desktop and optional start button may be enough to get 95% of the complaining users on board with Windows 8. I would need to see at least DWM fixed with Aero Glass but I would also like to see gadget optionality as well. We will see if the statement about listening to its users is just a pacification...............

 

Add hot corners that aren't annoying with multi monitor setups...

 

Start Button, no: I would consider that an insult, plain and simple. I doubt there's many people who are silly enough to be interested in getting a button to call up that Start Screen. If it's the Start Menu that's making a comeback, well, then we're at least talking. It would be a beginning, albeit a very modest one. I agree, I also would want the Aero code back.

 

Charging for the 8.1 update would cause some major outrage backlash.

 

kup and restore

Agreed, Win 7 back up and restore is a must with regular start orb.

3Fees

 

Microsoft Windows 8 update, codenamed Blue, will be free
Microsoft Windows 8 update, codenamed Blue, will be free - San Jose Mercury News

 

This all relates to the same press release(s). This is just M$ blowing some smoke up one of our various orifices. I am sure they want at least one more stab at forcing Win 8 down our throats while telling us at the same time to bend over.

Here is a unique suggestion for M$. Try and improve on the Windows 7 desktop experience! All while at the same time make touch features optional too desktop users.............

 

I agree! I've been saying that for a while now. Be MS not Apple. If we wanted Apple we'd switch to Apple. I don't like Apple.

<iframe width='560' height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZN5PoW7_kdA" frameborder='0' allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Me neither. But I don't like the "New Microsoft", either, and I may well figure at some point that I like them even less than Apple. Who knows, even the heretofore unthinkable may happen, and I'll switch to OS X!

 

Don't worry yet, W7 will have extended support until 2020. And oems like Levono are not buying into the new os and still offer w7 on most of their systems. Over half the desktop market is owned by enterprise and they are not buying into metro one bit. Dell just dropped the price on their RT tablet to 300 dollars which really sounds like their unloading inventory and getting out of the rt business. Imo, RT IS DEAD NOW. Nokia is going nowhere and WP is going down the tubes. If MS decides to forever let the desktop take second seat then MS will go down the road of irreverency. Before that is allowed to happen Ballmer will be tossed out and a major house cleaning will be in effect.

 

There's a shock.

Restoring Start Menu would not satisfy me. MS would need to roto-rooter that big turd known as Metro before I would even get close to Windows 8.

 

Considering that Microsoft's stock value is up 30% since December 2012 and its stock price is currently at a five-year high, I doubt Ballmer is going to dismissed any time soon.

Bill Gates regains title of world's richest person as Microsoft stock hits five-year high

https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFT

 

Agreed, I can't understand this either. Win 8 news has been nothing but sad other than M$ spinning the hell out of everything. About the only good thing about Win8 news is. the solidifying of Win 7 in the marketplace. Then again a lot of tech stocks like even CISCO are up as well.

My fear is at some point M$ will not be able to spin Win 8 any further and if a true rival shows up M$ could be in trouble. Windows has enjoyed a devoted customer base both with consumers and business. That devotion has been severely tested with Windows 8 and you can see and hear the reverberations everywhere. This has left open a door of opportunity for some other company(s) to come in and challenge M$ in the GUI, if not OS market. Fortunately no one of significance has yet shown up but we may have up till 2020 and the loss of Windows 7 support before that happens, again if it does............

 

I think this is an example of the "one-percenters" on internet forums not being an accurate reflection of the market as a whole. Kind of like how BMW's move from "the ultimate driving machine" (their words) to "baroque luxury" (my words) has caused near-revulsion on internet forums but plenty of business success.

 

I think that percentage here is far, far off.

 

The people who consider it a personal "insult" to have anything besides a full reversion to Windows 7 UI in every aspect, who rail against corporate arrogance over the aero-versus-metro question, and the type who use inflammatory phrases such as "botched abortion of technology" and "smoke blown up orifices" because they don't like a particular OS? Yep, those are one percenters.

I'm not saying that 99% are happy with Windows 8 as is. Even people who like it want some improvements, hence 8.1. The UI needs refinement, no doubt. I'm not saying everybody is in love with it. I'm saying that the inflammatory rhetoric and, more importantly, the specific demands being made on this subforum (full reversion to Windows 7 UI) are one-percenter rhetoric and demands.

If Microsoft was really circling the drain like people say here, playing the fiddle while Rome burned like people say here, I don't think investors would have driven their stock to a five-year high.

 

Investors are single minded drones. They only look at their quarterly bottom line, nothing more. I don't blame them, I have investments and want what will boost sales the most, but it doesn't mean it's the right thing for customers in the long or even short term. And I think those that have chosen to "enjoy" Windows 8 are the severe minority otherwise adoption rate of the OS would have been much higher. It doesn't placate business users period. If you do any amount of heavy multitasking productive regular Office type tasks nobody in their right mind says that Windows 8 is better. There are those that don't really care and conform because it's not that important to them, there are those that think MS can do no wrong and "newer is better", and those that actually want a productive OS. Having a productive OS means utilizing tried and true techniques not putting out something new and different just because they can.

Just because you like Windows 8 doesn't mean it's right for everyone else...

 

I have never EVER said this. I think that Windows 8 is a great concept for convertible tablets and touchscreen all-in-ones, still wet behind the ears and in need of refinement, and I think those hardware segments where Windows 8 excels are going to expand dramatically over the next year or so. I also think that Windows 7 is a great product, battle-tested and conservative and revined, particularly well-suited to businesses (that don't want cutting-edge OSes regardless of the UI), and I think Microsoft is smart to continue to sell and support it, which they will do for YEARS to come (unlike Apple, where Snow Leopard's debut meant the disappearance of new copies of Leopard from the market, and so on and so forth). I think investors are smart to see that Microsoft's business model really makes sense, instead of screaming that the company is failing just because they don't like one new cutting-edge product.

Why is Microsoft doing better now than during the Windows 7 era? Because then, like RIM, it was ONLY serving the traditional users, while ignoring the rise of tablets and touchscreens. Companies that ONLY worry about traditional users and not youthful consumers can go down the tubes quick--look at RIM when the iPhone exploded. But now, Microsoft is continuing to serve its traditional users with Windows 7 and Office 365 and its server business (all of which are well-suited to conservative and business users), while making bold moves into markets it previously had ignored with new OSes well-suited to tablets, convertible tablets, touchscreen laptops, etc.