NEWS : No IE onboard Windows 7 in Europe

So how do you download a browser without a browser to do it, on another computer with a browser

They should just give you the option to uninstall it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8096701.stm

 

I like it. Microsoft followed now the force of the EU. The result of the EU:

we didn't ment it that way!! (now they realise they lost the browser, an essential tool.. ).

i really love that. so much irony and sarcasm.

then they reply, they don't want removal of browser, they want choise. why should microsoft bundle their os with other browsers? they are not their products, they are 'arch enemies'. why should you bundle it with the os?

and if they do bundle firefox with the os, would microsoft now be your support for it?

it's just ridiculous.

you can install other browsers, you can even uninstall ie. you have all the choise and freedom. EU, just stop milking the moneycow.

 

All people in Europe, order free CD's with other browsers and wait for 15-30 days to get the CD's and install the browser.

 

They did offer this alternative but the lots like Opera wanted nothing from it. They want MS to bundle their browser in Windows for "free".

cheers ...

 

:yeahthat:

cheers ...

 

Well I'm sure the hardware vendors will be installing the optional IE package anyway, so in the end it's not going to matter. Maybe if Opera made a compelling product they wouldn't need the EU to carry their water for them.

Why does Apple get to bundle Safari without anyone getting their britches in a bundle? Is it because Apple is just too cool to mess with?

 

It's because Apple doesn't have a monopoly on the market. The little guy always gets away with so much more.

 

What a waste of everyone's time, seriously have the EU not got anything more important to do, whats next consoles with no controllers

 

Yeah, Madcatz will get upset that not enough people use their poorly made 3rd party controllers.

 

really, how do you install a browser without a browser?

 

It's government regulation. It doesn't have to make sense.

 

Like Luxembourg

 

The EC are stupid.

If Windows doesn't come with a bundled browser, i.e. IE then the average end user won't have a clue what to do and will just take their computer back imo.

Mind you I can see it another way, with all those end users who don't have a clue companies like PC World (here in the UK) can charge extra for putting a browser on for them. You know take the PC out to the back of the shop where it can't be seen, take a CD with a selection of pre-downloaded setup files, for browsers such as Firefox, install requested browser, walk out of shop 2 minutes later and charge the customer £50 for the pleasure...

 

Well, I really doubt that what Microsoft did was exactly what the EU was expecting. What the EU (or rather, Opera) wanted was for Microsoft to bundle alternative browsers, not strip the browser out altogether. As the title of this week's Windows Weekly suggests, Microsoft responded with "An F.U to the E.U."

Good for them, I say. What'll happen is that the PC makers will install the "optional" IE8 themselves and nothing will be any different than before. Opera will keep its 0.72% of the browser market, which is more than they deserve if you ask me.

 

Yep. And that is exactly what they (EU Commission) came out and said earlier today. They rather see MS offering a "selection" of browser choices Their argument was that this would create a "fair" competitive environment.

cheers ...

 

And what does the consumer know about browsers? They'll install IE8, what they're used to. Then Opera will complain that IE8's icons are too high quality at the browser selection screen and must be made worse.

 

Just allow for an uninstall. Done deal.

Or now there will be editions WITH Internet Explorer and WITHOUT to add to the complexity.

I really would hate it though if MS included IE, Firefox, Chrome, and Opera as base installs. That would just add to the clutter. If they did, at least offer the option to choose which browsers you want installed at installation. But that will never happen!

 

Well, they do also include Firefox with Mac OS, don't they?

Moreover though, why does Apple get away with pushing Safari to Windows users who have a single Apple product (say, QuickTime) installed? Automatic updates, fine, but pushing software someone didn't even want is sketchy at best. I guess it's probably perfectly legal, but it's not like Microsoft bundling IE with Windows was ever illegal, either.

But I can see why Opera isn't thrilled with this offer. The only potential beneficiaries of this deal are Chrome and Safari, as Google and Apple are the ones with the pockets to make deals with PC makers to bundle their browsers on Windows. Opera and Firefox won't gain any more exposure than they already have. Retail copies it doesn't really matter anyways - if you're buying a retail copy, you know enough about computers to know alternate browsers exist.

And the advertising difference really does matter. Chrome gets ads all over Google's properties - including YouTube - where almost all Internet users will see them. Opera gets very little advertising - almost entirely word of mouth. That's the biggest reason Chrome has a higher market share. Safari gets the Apple Push bonus - although its quality on the PC is low enough that doesn't help it much. Firefox has reached the point where it's common enough that it receives significant benefit just from being mentioned a lot on the Web. Opera has just enough marketshare to show up on the radar. Other browsers - K-Meleon, Maxthon, Lunascape, Sleipnir - might not even show up on the radar of a technology enthusiast. If they had lots of funding, they would. But without that, how are they supposed to compete?

So I'm not sure how you can say Opera doesn't deserve its market share. IE certainly gets some it doesn't deserve if you're going to put it that way, as does Safari for Windows (via advertising/unwanted updates, respectively) - you could (not saying I am) even say Safari for Mac and Firefox for Mac, both of which benefit from bundling. Sure, a bit of that 0.72% is from enthusiasts trying it out, but that pales in comparison to the amount of page views that full-time Opera users generate. And Chrome/Firefox/IE8 benefit from that phenomenon as well (Chrome probably a whole lot more). It won't be to everyone's taste, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deserve what it's earned. I'm not a big fan of Firefox, but I wouldn't say it doesn't deserve its market share that it's carved out over the years. Opera really does offer a lot of features that aren't in any other browser (or at least, any that I've found, and I've tried more than most people), and that's probably why it has most of the market share it does.

In the end this becomes a debate of philosophy. The capitalist would say Microsoft has the right to bundle whatever it wants with its operating system (barring obtrusive programs such as China's government spy application, or something infringing on another company's IP, neither of which apply to IE/WMP). In a more Socialist/Communist perspective, one might say that the government has a duty to ensure the people are aware of certain, potentially more beneficial, options than what profit-centered companies would like to offer them in important industries. It's a question of free market versus giving the people what's best for them (without exalting profit). Now why the EU is so concerned about the web browser market, I don't quite understand. Doesn't seem like regulating it would be as important as for, say, banks, electricity companies, and telecoms. But if one assumes web browsers really are that important, I see the point of both perspectives. In a more critical industry I'd say the socialist one would definitely need to be implemented at least to the point of regulation (lest the pure capitalist program lead to something like the American financial crisis of 2008, or outright profit-wrining from monopolies, something that IE doesn't give Microsoft). Here, I'm fine with either in the end. Microsoft isn't blocking access to its Web sites to non-IE users anymore. I think a lot more people would like and use Opera if there were a "ballot box" option, but philosophically, I can see why you'd say, tough luck Opera, Microsoft can make their operating system however they like, if people really don't like it that way, they won't buy it.

 

If Microsoft be forced to include multiple browsers with Windows, why not just include Ubuntu and OSX while they're at it!

Honestly, people need to stop whining. Microsoft can bundle their OS with whatever programs they want. If people don't like it, they don't have to buy it. What if Adobe complains that Windows Movie Maker is encroaching on their software and they feel MS has a monopoly on movie editing and is driving them out of business? C'mon people (not you guys, but people in general).

 

dudes, all is fine. ftp still works.

now we just need ftp://firefox.com/install.exe to get done, so that users can remember the ftp


edit: yes, this post has part sarcasm, part truth in it. but it does work.

next, the eu will cry that we have a builtin ftp browser

 

Well, that comment was merely a bit of snarkiness aimed at Opera for their attempt to use the EU and the courts to advance their product, rather than actually producing a compelling product that people want. Firefox seems to have done pretty well, so it's not like users won't move to an alternative browser if it offers enough incentive to switch. I'm posting this from Firefox after all. Chrome seems to be picking up momentum. If Opera can't seem to follow along, maybe there's a reason for that.

So OK, they deserve their 0.72% of the market. What they don't deserve is anything higher if it's at the hands of the EU or any other court.

 

I disagree. The EC should not be allowed to make whatever regulations they want. The world economy needs to function with less regulation rather than more, and I feel it's pretty rash for them to make this ruling against Microsoft.

True, I seem to have jumped the gun a bit on this.

Agreed.

 

Oh ok, I misunderstood you.