Removing WinSXS .. Doable, yes, but, what?

As a maniac for freeing up space, which I can't imagine how OCD it would become if I had a SSD, I came across a guide to cleaning up the dreaded WINSXS folder here: [Guide] Win7/Server SP1 - Removal With Vlite and RT Lite - MSFN Forum

Because of the writer's lazy or broken english and it's over-concise nature, I don't follow it.
Has anyone successfully done this or tried?

 

Is space that precious ? I would use Microsoft' SP clean up but nothing more than that.

 

Leave WinSxS alone. It's a poor solution to DLL hell, but it works. Once you futz with it, programs will error if they don't find the version of the file they're looking for. WinSxS is that big because all of the programs you have put those files there and are all working off different versions of the same or similar dll-ish files.

 

I have tried it, it works. In 32-bit W7 you end up with a xinsxs folder size of about 200 MB IIRC.
Some updates won't install, but that could be due to other functions removed such as Speech/WMC/Korean.. etc.

You can always make Windows a bit smaller than it already is, the question is why?
I got this far, and I have absolutely no use for it:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=111532

I'd say a good alternative is to move the folder rather than removing it.
If you have a SSD + HDD, move it to the HDD.
I will do this instead when I get a SSD.

 

Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!!!!

I would not touch this process with someone else's ten foot pole. Mucking with WinSXS is a fool's errand to gain a little disk space. Besides, the space reported by the OS about WinSXS is NOT correct. It is significantly overstated as has been well documented elsewhere.

The idiot who wrote this procedure has NO IDEA what he is doing. There is a very good reason why you need WinSXS. See my signature line below for details.

I wish there was a way to reliably CLEAN UP WinSXS, short of reformatting and reinstalling everything. Too many bad uninstallers leave behind remnants in WinSXS. I am as frustrated as anyone else with the size of it, but as a programmer I know WHY its there and know it should not be just blindly removed.

Gary

 

ScuderiaConchiglia: The method doesn't remove winsxs entirely, a large folder structure of about 6000 folders are kept,
and I think that these are kept to avoid the .dll hell you describe. I'm not 100 % sure tho.

It doesn't remove the winsxs folder, it reduces it to 200 MB, and it will get larger the more you use it just like a stock version of W7.

 

Folks, just listen to Gary on this, and leave well enough alone. As he said, the procedure you guys are referring to clearly comes from a clueless fiddler. To add a bit more detail to what Gary said: Almost all of the files in winsxs are hard links, which means they do not take up any space on your disk at all. The size you get reported by standard tools thus does not correctly report the size of that folder, at all.

Once again, the best advice is: Leave it alone. You'd gain nothing but a half-broken OS.

No, the reason why those updates won't install is precisely the incompetent attempt at relocating the winsxs folder.

 

You couldn't be more wrong, aviv00 knows what he's doing, and calling him a clueless fiddler or idiot is just wrong.

So how can I use that space if it's incorrectly reported as occupied?

Are you talking from experience or just guessing? It works, but it's not for everyone.

That's not true, the more functions you remove from Windows, the fewer updates will install.

For the third time: The described method won't remove the winsxs entirely.

 

I know WinSXS cannot be removed completely since Windows wont work.

I also see no point in indicating that it's size is smaller than reported.. The space is still wasted.

I do understand the functionality of bloated size, and I'd even be happy with a "cleaning" utility to track down dead data within, but no such luck so I looked into trimming it from the get go.

I leave updates off for a good portion of the time, so I wouldn't be stressed about that, but any program that would fail to work properly would not be tolerable.

Unless something significantly more comprehensive and viable shows up, I will not be attempting anything.

 

I want to throw the thought out there when it comes to hard links and the "reporting" of the size of the folder.

I'm guessing what this means is that when I r-click properties and it "reports" 5-6GB, that it's actually stating the size of the files in their true locations, but the folder itself and its contents of links is not truly that big?

 

If he's messing around with WinSXS claiming that it is safe to remove items then his competency comes into question.

How about a few words from someone who IS competent to speak on the subject?

What is the WINSXS directory in Windows 2008 and Windows Vista and why is it so large? - Ask the Core Team - Site Home - TechNet Blogs

No one said the space was being reported as occupied. What was said was that the SIZE of the folder is misreported by the OS and just about any space reporting tool I've ever seen used to look at it. But that has nothing, I repeat nothing, to do with the amount of free space. Free space is not calculated by subtracting the "used" space from the size of the drive. It is calculated by summing up the size of the items in the free space table.

Again, let's see what someone competent on the subject says:
Disk Space - Engineering Windows 7 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs


Gary

 

Well that brings a little more clarity to it's misrepresentation of size, but all the MS supported articles are a little one sided. Of course they're not going to leave themselves susceptible to fault..

 

I didn't call him an idiot. He is clueless, though. No shame in that, there's no reason to know all of this stuff, unless you fiddle with it, that is...

Nothing prevents you from using it. It's available without you doing anything. Example: On a hard drive partition with a total size of 32GB, say, I have a folder holding 16GB of files. Now I create another folder that holds hard links to each and every one of the files in the first folder. If you check the size of your two folders, you'll find you have a folder that holds 16GB of files, and another folder also holding 16GB. However, if you check your partition, you'll find that it has 16GB of free space.

I am talking from experience. Lots and lots of it. I have experimented with this kind of thing, and more (such as relocating C:\Program Files to a different partition; don't do it. Enough said.) Long story short, leave this stuff alone, unless you really, really know what you are doing, and understand the trade-offs.

Doesn't matter. It's there for a reason, and there is no good reason to remove it. Period, end of story.

 

As in the method described by aviv00? Experimenting with winsxs in general doesn't apply here, necessarily.
I mean, I removed winsxs completely back in 2007 and got an instant BSOD when I tried to boot it, but that's irrelevant here.

I had some trouble with this method until I got it right in VMWare, then I used it on my laptop.
Just because you have bad experience with it, it doesn't mean that anyone who succeeds are clueless.

If anyone thought the winsxs would get completely removed, then I would understand the criticism.
That's why it matters.

 

Here is more info regarding WinSXS and the only recommended way of reducing its size. Until someone writes a proper app to scan manifest files on a system and compare them to the contents of WinSXS to determine the individual files that can be safely remove, we are stuck with this. This article explains why you can't move WinSXS to a different volume. (Its suggestions as to reducing the size are documented elsewhere and have already been discussed.)

How to Alleviate Disk Space Pressure Caused By a Large Windows Component Store (WinSxS) Directory (Oh, I can hear the chorus now, more microsoft propaganda... spare me.)

The other way to reduce the WinSXS size is to reformat your drive, reinstall the OS using an installer with the SP already in it, reinstall all the apps using the most recently available installers.

Let me be clear, it is POSSIBLE to determine the things that can be eliminated from WinSXS, but it requires digging into the bowels of the system to do. This proposed method does not do any sort of comparison or inspection to determine what can be removed. It makes ASSUMPTIONS.

As an aside, if Winsxs is not being removed by the process, then why is this thread and every step in the actual process say "REMOVE" not "reduce the size of" or something similar.

My assessment of the author of this so called "process" still stands, they are clueless. I don't care how many anecdotal comments of "it worked great for me" there are. Those responding in that way have no clue if it worked or not. All they know is they system didn't BSOD on the next reboot. They have no idea what damage is lurking underneath waiting to bite them in the butt a week from now, a month from now or three months from now.

Gary

 

Simply because aviv00 isn't that good at english.
Another could be that you select the whole component cache for removal in Vlite (but the folder will be there anyway, of course).

I just installed two instances of Windows 7, one without winsxs.

If anyone wants me to do some testing, just tell me what to do.
Some features that relies on winsxs won't work of course.
My guess is that no one cares, and like I said before, neither do I. I have no use for it.

 

You're the one who seems to know everything about what WinSXS is used for and how safe it is to wipe it out, so you devise the tests.

This conversation is ridiculous. It doesn't matter how much real information is given from credible sources. You've decided to do what you want based on the reccomendation of someone, who is clearly cluesless. Fine. Just don't expect the rest of us who do understand the necessity for it to stand by if you suggest for others to follow in your footsteps.

I love this quote: "Some features that relies on winsxs won't work of course.", some pesky litle features like Windows Update. But hey who needs updates right?

Gary

 

Stop making things up, I haven't told anyone to follow my footsteps. In my first post I said:

You also assume that I haven't read your linked articles, why?

I don't know everything about Windows, winsxs, programming, hardware, life.. . .

I'm just sharing my experiences, that's all. If that upsets people, well it's not my intention, but there's not much I can do about that.
Is it so hard to understand that no matter how many well written MS articles you throw at me, my experience is still the same?

The strange thing is that I've never seen people getting so upset at the msfn forums about this (now is the right time to tell me to go posting over there instead, among all the other clueless ones).

Windows Update will work. Again, you're making things up.

 

Even on MSFN, the board is littered with people trying to remove WinSxS and getting told in no uncertain terms that it is a bad idea.

 

I am??? Hmm, take a look at this direct quote from one of the Microsoft articles I linked to earlier:

So tell me again how Windows Update will work just fine after you have mucked about with the contents of WinSXS. And then tell me WHO is making stuff up. You have no idea if Windows Update will continue to work six months from now. All you know is you ran it yesterday and it didn't die. Oh great, I feel so much better now and fully trust your judgment on this over the folks that wrote the operating system and the deliver process for patches and service packs. Heck what do they know?

Gary

 

Gary + 1 you show great patience, and knowledge-
in case you need it
bang head here - Bing Images

 

Windows Update worked after I followed the instructions, that's all I can say.

You said WU won't work, without even trying it. That's what I call making things up.

You must have totally misunderstood me, I used an install with an (initially) 200 MB winsxs for about a year.

Having a bad day? Just chill out, and stop being so sarcastic about me being superior in everything just because I share my experiences, there's no need for that.

You don't have to trust me, I'm not forcing you to do it.

 

What there is no need for is folks to insist that somehow their "experiences" with one machine actually trump the advice of the authors of the OS and patch delivery system. I don't trust you. Nor do I trust the author of the "process". I am only doing this to counter the implications that because you have not seen any issues on one machine, that it is safe. And I am not doing this to save you from yourself, I could care less what happens to your machine. I am doing this so someone who stumbles into this conversation doesn't take your word for it, that your experiences are more important than the words from the folks who actually know how WinSXS works.

Gary

 

relax guys.

I didn't read the blog posts in detail but based on what I have seen in the winsxs directory, it really is kind of a version control repositories keeping the history of a particular DLL(and probably affected one as well). So it seems to be more gears towards 'uninstall' and I won't be surprise that if you keep the latest one, windows update should be ok. Uninstall can cause big trouble(if possible at all).

 

There is more to WinSXS than that, read up on "DLL Hell" if you want to learn more about it.

Gary

 

@gary

I know about DLL hell and I am not here to argue whether one should touch the WinSXS(see my first post).

 

Oh I know you were not trying to argue the point. Sorry if my reply implied that. I just wanted to point out that WinSXS does more than just provided info for updates. Those of us who are programmers appreciate what WinSXS does for DLL hell.

Gary

 

I'm not trying to trump anything. You obviously want me to lie about my experience just beacuse it doesn't match what MS says?

When did I say it was safe? I said it works, but that doesn't mean that it's safe. You're making things up again.
This forum is full of end users who have their own way of solving problems or doing things differently, they tell their story and tells us if it simply works or not. You can usually never interpret more than that from a single forum member, well unless that person actually claims something being safe (altho that's something I'd take with a grain of salt).

Again, you saying that I somehow claim that I know better than the people at MS who knows how Windows actually works.

I've never said that. You made that up as well.

In the first post I said that the OP should ask himself why he would want to use the method, and that I personally find no use for it.

In short:
- The method in the OP works.
- It doesn't remove winsxs entirely.
- I don't use it anymore.
- I have no need to use the method.

It is possible to do it, but I can't recommend it. I just can't see the benefit of reducing the winsxs folder.

 

Alright, Mats, test your metal, you said you ran with a trimmed winsxs for months. What errors did you encounter?

 

Mats, we share the same view regarding using trimmed winsxs. My current Windows installation utilizes trimmed winsxs, and it (including Window Update) works fine without any problem. Still, I want to point out that I am using different method, which is the winsxs shrinker script in this thread instead. Anyhow, it serves the very same function.

My point is that you all are not forced to use that problem. If you want to use it, go ahead. Otherwise, just say that you disagree with it, but you should not condemn it as if it is some sort of a crime to use it. Those guys at MSFN forum have spent countless hours in deriving such methods which are very difficult, because one wrong step can cause error in Windows installation. Then, they posted the finalized steps for us to use for free, without asking anything in return. I understand that most of us may not appreciate the usefulness of the methods, but your criticism should not be too excessive.

If you feel your software cannot function well with trimmed winsxs, then you should not use it. Since everyone utilizes different kind of problem, only you yourself can know whether your Windows can handle trimmed winsxs.

 

why do people do such stupid things? seriously. i have two kidneys, and don't need both most likely. do i remove one just for the fun of it?

and then there are people wondering why their windows doesn't work the way it should..

anyways, anyone messing with anything in c:\windows, and especially in winsxs, should never do it. but enjoy your fun. just never blame anyone except yourself for any fault you'll have with your systems.

 

I will answer your question later when I have more time. I need to check some things first.

Actually, I had totally forgotten that I have been running with a reduced winsxs since march this year, although not with the drastic method used by vlite.

 

Haha, what? I would consider many of Windows' features more like fat than a vital organ. Do I need them? No. Is it handy for 'just in case'? Sure, if I like using terribly scripted Movie Makers.
As well there are tons of easily trashable items in C;\windows. I.e., Software Distribution, Update uninstallers, Downloaded programs, etc.

And yes, of course I blame myself if my tampering causes faults.

"Should never do it" is a fairly nearsighted statement, otherwise what improvements could be made? Just because M$ says whatever they do is 100% right for everyone sure as hell does not make that the case.

 

Oh great, we get to hear from another one who knows more about the internal design of the OS than the authors. So is this list of easily trashable items from your own disection of the code in the OS or just another in a long line of "well I did it and nothing went wrong" lists?

Gary

 

I just love when people purposely misspell Microsoft like that. It certainly doesn't help your silly argument any, you know.

 

In some cases, yes. In others, no.
Yeah, we all need IE wasting space on our drives, when it will never be run, for any reason if one prefers FF/ Opera, etc.

Just because something comes with a stock release of a product does not mean it has any use or purpose for every single person that buys it. I can mod, tweak, or just plane rip things out of my car and not effect its ability to drive in anyway. E.g., air conditioning.
Windows is designed to accommodate every consumer level pc. If only 1 or 2 designs of cars existed for everyone, people would be modifying them like crazy to suit their needs.

But this is an age old argument, and we can make the same points over and over, so this is my last post here.

I do accept that modifying WINSXS is more like rebuilding the transmission or something, so yes, I agree its RISKY, but whether it was possible or not was all I was trying to find out here.

 

possible in what sense ? If you mean delete them and your windows still function(at the point of deletion), the answer is yes.

If you still want to use windows update and/or install other program in the future, it becomes iffy.

The simple question is still, are you that tight in HDD space ? There are legit reason to strip everything(say special purpose setup like an ATM machine) but that is not something this forum's user should do(we are afterall on a forum for consumer oriented laptop)

 

If you dare!

WinSXSLite – First Application to Address WinSXS Size problem | TechK2.CoM

Download here

 

Apparently, the same site recommending this is not aware of Service Pack cleanup being integrated in Disk Cleanup in Windows 7.

 

Guys, we all agree that complete removal of WinSXS will cause Windows being unable to be updated via windows Update.

However, you should look closely at the title of post clone63 quoted, which states: "[Guide] Windows 7 - Safe WinSxS Removal With Vlite and RT Lite and Make OS still updatable".

The word "safe" does not mean that anyone should attempt it. It means that the script only partially removes WinSXS, so that Windows Update can still update Windows without any problem.

In other words, the script removes WinSXS files as much as possible, but it does not excessively remove them until Windows Update cannot function, hence the words "Safe WinSxS Removal".

As before, I emphasize that you need to invest quite some time to test it in your computer. If it does not work, don't use it. If you do not have the time to test it, again, just don't use it. I too needed some testing time to get it worked.

 

Don't depend on Vlite for 'safe' anything.


Nuhi never finished Vlite and it was intended for use on Vista. Vlite was never intended or designed to support Win7.

Just because someone titles a web posting "safe removal" doesn't make it so, especially when they are depending on the use of an obsolete unfinished tool.

 

And this much touted "script" purports to remove all but the most recent version of DLL files and then point the apps that need them to this current version. Hello, who is the IDIOT who thought that was a good idea? Ever hear of "DLL hell"? This is EXACTLY what used to happen and led to DLL hell. WinSXS was designed to resolve the very problem this "script" is going to recreate.

Don't you just love it when amateurs who think they know more about operating systems and programming create these great "solutions"?

Now, let me be VERY clear. I think WinSXS implementation sucks, and it is POSSIBLE to write a program that, with intensive and thorough inspection of the program manifests, can create a culled down list of the versions of DLL's that can safely be removed. But this "script" and the Vlite do NOT do this.

Gary

 

I decided to check the actual size of the winsxs. A clean install of 64-bit Windows 7 SP1 Ultimate has a 1.1 GB large winsxs folder.

 

Well, clearly you do.

 

over time it will grow due to updates. Why I just let Microsoft do it(in SP1 update they have a tool to clean that up to SP1 level and most probably SP2 as well when it is out).

 

Yes it does. But the initial size is what will get reduced in the OP's link, and I just wanted to point out the actual size.

 

Really? Where did I claim to know more than the original authors? I love how you clipped that one quote and totally ignored the rest of my message calling out the idiot who decided it was a good thing to revert users back to DLL hell. I know more about operating systems and programming than that fool. I've been programming for over 40 years, and owned the first computer store in Cincinnati in 1976, I was involved in writing operating systems in those early days, and have been involved with the creation of database engines and all manner of other system and end user software since. So, yes I have enough knowledge to call out "amateurs" when I see them. And the author of this script gives amateur programmers a bad name.

I also stated, which you chose to ignore, that it is POSSIBLE to write a tool that could do this correctly. Again I do know enough about programming and operating systems to know it is feasible. But none of these "brilliant" short cuts even come close to the task.

Gary

 

Ok, since you can't read my somewhat lacking English, let me help you.

Well, clearly you do love when amateurs who think they know more about operating systems and programming create these great "solutions".
That's what I meant, I'm not trying to tell you that you're an amateur or something like that, because you're not. I'm just pointing out that you're repeating yourself, and that we've got your point by this time.

It's a really bad thing if I was trying to break the dll handling in W7, but the thing is that I've never done that, I don't even know how to do it. But still after all these pages you still think that's what I'm doing.

Post after post you keep on misunderstanding me, you get offended, and at the same time you say over and over again that I'm claiming myself being superior to MS staff...


Why?

 

Are you the author of the script recently mentioned in this thread, or the author of the post spelling out how to use vLite to reduce the size of WinSXS? Those are the folks I am calling fools and amateurs, and have been since I started participating in this thread.

Gary

 

One more important matter about these WinSXS shrinker script is that it should only be applied to a customized Windows image. In other words, you should mount an unmodified Windows 7 SP1 (MSDN) image via GImageX and apply the script to it. Then, you format your computer and make a fresh Windows installation on your computer, using this customized Windows image.

The script is never intended to be applied to your current Windows installation, unless you want to experience DLL hell.

Yes, I agree with you on this point and this is also the proper way of using this script. My point is that if you reinstall Windows and all of your software afterwards, you should not experience DLL hell onwards.