System restore creating restore point on a disk not checked!!

Hi People,

I have system restore enabled for C: but not for the D: (which in my case is a recovery, as it came from the factory). I have not enabled that to be part of the system restore point creation. BUT STILL, every time there is a system restore point (either scheduled or manual) being made for C:, it also seems to create a restore point for D:. How is this possible?? Is there somewhere I could select the disks specifically other than the control panel>system>system protection?? Because here, only C: is checked.. but still restore points are being created for D:. Of course, when I uncheck the box next to D: and apply, it removes the restore point and it even asks me if I want to turn off restore point creation for that disk. I say yes, but then it comes back out of nowhere.

Thanks for any inputs/solutions. Cheers.

 

anyone??

 

Two points, first bumping a thread here is not allowed until 24 hours have passed. Second as most of the users here are in the US, we are on Independence day (Fourth of July) weekend holiday and traffic here will be WAY down.

Gary

 

bumping.....

 

That's weird fonduekid. I've never heard a problem like this. First time... So any people here to help this guy? This is great if this will be answered.

 

Yep! It was like out of the blue for me, because I did nothing at all, like updating or installing or anything. The only new thing I did was start using JkDefrag couple of days back but then I am sure it isn't connected in any way to this problem. Its really strange and before/after I posted here, I have checked extensively online for similar issues, but just drew a blank. And it would be really nice if someone can help me out (as well as for others).

By the way, I remember changing the schedule for system restore in the task scheduler - Again, nothing big. It was 12 mid-night by default, which I moved to 10 PM. That was it. And I undid the 'do this only if the system is idle' thing. Nothing else.

Hope we can hear from someone soon.

PS., In fact, on the day this problem started creeping up, I got myself a second external HDD, an iOmega 750, 7200 rpm on a steal price. So I am also thinking about turning off this system restore all together since I am doing a complete PC back up there, as well as backing up all my data onto my older external HDD (iOmega 500 GB). But for now, I wanna just live with this system restore thing as long as I can, since I have hard disk space, and when the system restore is running, I dont see much of a lowering in performance. So there..

 

Ok, strange!! I had a system restore scheduled to run at 10 tonight and it did!! I can see the process initiated and completed in the task scheduler history. BUT, in the most recent restore point it does not show up this 10 PM entry, instead it shows the one made at 4 PM, 6 hours before (that was when I start up). So..... any one out there who could try to comprehend what might be happening?

Or is it that the 10 PM entry doesnt really show up since there was not changes made to the computer or something like that? In fact, I installed Nero Lite (just to try) and uninstalled it - while system restore by default makes a restore point every time we install or uninstall something, why doesn't this show up?

By the way, I just remembered (from my "defragmentation taking too long" thread), I entered this new reg key for "enableautolayout" because apparently in XP this works to prevent 'optimize hard disk when idle' when the value is set at 0. I did this because I was using JkDefrag and in order to prevent windows undoing what the JkDefrag did, there was this suggestion to set a key and value it at 0. Does anyone think/know if this has got something to do with messing up the system restore thing in any way?? Thanks for your suggestions/solutions.

 

I doubt the addition of a registry key would alter the system restore process like that. Try disabling System Restore, clear the restore points, then enable it again.

 

I did but it still is the same. I completely turned off system restore (which cleared up all the prev restore points) and then I re-enabled but just chose C: and not D: > did a manual restore point creation and once it was done, there was a restore point created for D: also!!!! (I Repeat - D: was not checked, only the box next to C: was checked and chosen to be included in the restore point) :confused2:

 

By the way - does anyone think this is because of the following or somewhere there is some link between the following and the issue I am having?

The story - I got this new external hard disk and I am using it for a complete PC backup. I do this complete PC backup from the backup and restore center, and when I do this, its the complete PC which mainly includes the drive with the OS by default and gives us the chance to select any additional drives. Here I chose the D: as well!!!!

So does anyone think there is some link between this and the system restore mysteriously creating restore points for D: even when not asked to?

Thanks for any inputs/solutions/explanations people. Cheers.

 

best advice i can give you...next time you do a format re-install...leave a seperate partition for 'MyDocuments'...and then move them there via start/right click 'MyDocuments'/choose properties/move them to that partition 'MyDocuments'...get your /drivers/favorite programs installed/make an image copy/disable system restore/it's a great place for nasties to hide in...in the event of using the image file to restore C:/...'MyDocuments' will never change...

 

Thanks for your advice and I'll keep this in mind. But for now I am not planning to do a format or a re-install or anything like that, since other than this small issue, my laptop is being really great and wonderful. I prefer leaving it as it is unless I see some major trouble or whatever.

So, anyone with any ideas on how to resolve this issue without doing a reformat or a reinstall? Thanks a lot in advance. Cheers.

 

I go one step further and move the Favorites folder and Outlook.PST files there as well. Great suggestion! Been doing this for about ten years now, before there was a right click option for this!

Gary

 

Thanks for that Gary.

But still any idea why this is happening all off a sudden? I mean where do you think was that something got changes or whatever? Any ideas?

 

Sorry, I haven't a clue.

Gary

 

soz...i really don't know either...i have my drive cut into four partitions...have system restore disabled on them all...how far have you gotten with google search?

here's a great knowledge site for Window's O.S.'s...do a search there and see what's availabe

http://aumha.org/win5/index.htm

 

Thanks for that link.. really nice site. I am looking there now.

As far as google search is concerned, to be frank, ever since I started this thread I have been googling in parallel, but I just can't a single place which seems to address my query.. I am still trying though, using different key words and stuff like that... Lets see.. this issue is really strange. I'll keep you guys posted... (though from tomorrow, I'd be away for a week for a conference.. will be back on Thursday next. So probably will hit this board again with updates on this issue then.) Thanks everyone and see you in this thread soon..

 

Hi everyone, I am back..

So, any progress on this issue friends? I am still looking around but not able to find a fix... I guess I'd rather turn the whole system restore thing off or just keep going with manually deleting the sys restore point being made for the drive not chosen.

Anyways, please let me know if someone hits upon a solution to this issue. Thanks a lot.

 

Is the system restore on D drive using any valuable space or is it basically just an empty folder?

 

Thanks for your reply.

Its a recovery (as came from the factory). Its size is like 10 GB using about 5.4 GB as of now. when the restore point is created, its something like 5.06 GB.... Hope this the information you were asking for. Let me know if you need anything else.

 

A huge bump for this thread.. but with some information as well!!

I have been in touch with the MS support guys for this problem with system restore and here are the email conversations. I have had two emails till now and I will be posting them here, just for your information and for anyone who'd like to know whats going on. Cheers.

**** First Email ****

Thank you for contacting Microsoft Online Support Service. My name is Ray, and I am glad to work with you. For your reference, the case ID for this service request is ***********. You can contact me by sending an email to me with the case ID in the subject line.

First, I would like to apologize for your support request being unexpectedly delayed. Please be assured you have successfully contacted the correct support team and I will be working with you to address your concerns as quickly as possible.

From the problem description, I understand that while using Windows Vista, there were two restore points for drive c and drive d. An attempt has been made to try to change setting in System Protection, but the issue persists. If there has been any misunderstanding, please let me know.

I understand the inconvenience you have experienced. Please be assured that I will do my best to help you.

To resolve the issue, I would like to confirm where we found that there were two restore point. Could you capture a screenshot for further research? That will be very useful for troubleshooting, thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

Going forward, when we try to change the restore drive settings in System Protection, please first uncheck both drive C and drive D, and then check drive C.

After that, can we resolve the issue?

Your feedback is very important to us. If there has been anything unclear, please feel free to tell me.

I look forward to your reply. Have a good day.

Best Regards,
Ray Zheng
**** End of first email ****

 

**** Second Email ****

Thanks for writing back. From your last mail, I understand that the issue after my suggestions. I appreciate your time and effort in working on our issue.

This time, I suggest we use the following instructions to great a new use account for troubleshooting.

Create a new user account
====================
1. Click Start Menu, and then click Control Panel.
2. Click switch to a Classic View in left panel.
3. Double-click User Accounts.
4. Click Change another use account.
5. Click Create a new account, and type the name.
6. Choose account type as Computer administrator.
7. Click Create Account.
8. Log off and log on with the new account.

Please test if the issue persists while we are using the new user account.

Your feedback is very important to us. If there has been anything unclear, please feel free to tell me.

I look forward to your reply. Have a good day.

Best Regards,
Ray Zheng
**** End Of Second Email ****

Note that this guy writes to me usually 4 days after I reply to him... lol...

 

**** Third Email (Issue escalated and this email is from an escalation engineer) **** Note that I still had the issue even after the previous two emails and tests. I have not tried the following and I will be doing so today evening. I will get back to you with what happens. Cheers People

Thank you for contacting Microsoft Online Support. My name is Edward and I am an Escalation Engineer for the Windows Vista Support Team. In order to better serve you and resolve this issue more efficiently, I have taken ownership of your Service Request. To contact me, please send emails to ************ or *********** and make sure the title includes SR*********3 in the subject line.

I appreciate that this matter has been ongoing for some time, and understand the frustration this would cause. I greatly appreciate your cooperation and apologize for any inconvenience. Please be assured that I will work closely with you to resolve this matter as soon as possible.

From the case log, I understand that system create an unwanted restore point on D:.

If I am not accurate in my understanding of this case, please feel free to let me know.

As I understand, we have been working with Ray and the following steps were completed:

1. Uncheck both drive C and drive D, and then check drive C.
2. Create a new user account

Please be assured that I fully understand any inconvenience the issue may have caused and I will try my best to help you narrow down the root cause of it.

According to our previous troubleshooting information, the issue can be caused by the following factors:

1. Incorrect setting

2. Third party application conflicts

To further troubleshoot this issue, I suggest we try these steps:

1. Click the Start button->All Programs->Accessories.
2. Right click Command Prompt and select "Run as administrator".
3. Click Continue when the User Account Control window appears.
4. Type the following command and press Enter:

Vssadmin resize shadowstorage /on=D: /For=D: /MaxSize=500MB

If there is any error message, please take a screenshot for further research.

If the issue persists, please collect the information below for further research:

How to collect the System Information
=============================
The System Information can provide us with more information about the current status of the system. I would like to check it for you. Please send it to me using the following steps:

1. Click the Start Button, type "MSINFO32" in the Search Bar and press Enter to start System Information.
2. On the popup window, on the menu bar, click "File", and click "Save", type a file name and then choose NFO as "Save as type", click "Desktop" on the left pane, and click Save.

Please right-click on the exported file, choose "Send To" -> "Compressed (zipped) Folder", and then send the zip file to ************** for further research.

Please take your time with the above steps and inform me of the results at your earliest convenience. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to let me know.

I look forward to your reply.

Sincerely,
Edward
*********************
Microsoft Windows Vista Escalation Support Professional
**** End of third email ****

 

Yes, I fixed this issue, with help from an escalation engineer from Vista Support.

we went through the basic thing like I posted above, and more recently I completely diabled VSS and then re-enabled it after restart, but still I had the problem.

So finally, the Esc. Eng. asked me to dump in the Vista CD after starting up the computer successfully, and see if the install screen pops-up... Else I did "Drive:/setup.exe", without quotes, where Drive is the CD/DVD drive letter... and then vista install started.. in the 'Which type of installation to you want? screen', I chose "Upgrade" and let it complete.. took an hour or two.. but then this issue was fixed and now there no more restore point being created in D: which is not selected / unchecked

As for this cause, the Esc. Eng. said it was probably due to some third party applications / programs messing up with this.. and I don't know what could that third party thing be... because I really don't have any except for CCleaner, Easycleaner (I use this as per Les advise, meaning I dont touch anything, but just chose "unnecessary" and find and delete files).. With CCleaner also I check usually what comes up after analysis and always I make a reg backup in any case.. So I don't know.. Other than this I have MBAM, SpybotS&D, SAS for on-demand scanning once in a while.. Norton came with the laptop so it was always there, even before this issue came up... I recently installed Threatfire but then it was very recent and this system restore headache had been there for a long time (as you can see from this thread)...

The other thirdparty tools I got / use is the JKDefrag. Now here I am not really sure because no one else reported about this problem.. Now I wanna go back to see when I got JKDefrag and if it was around the same time as when I started seeing this problem.. I still remember, I was asking about JKDefrag in the vista tips n tweaks thread / defragmentation taking too long thread.. so I will check there.

Also I remember doing the pagefile defrag according to instructions from the JKDefrag page... like turn off pagefile, run the defrag, and the fix the pagefile and as long as I dont change it again the pagefile wont get defragmented and so on... (from the JKDefrag page) and I havent done JKdefrag often anyways.. did it couple of times and thats it...

so there... if anyone has any ideas (and I am sure the experts here will be having some for sure) please let me know.. Because I really want to know what screwed up this system restore so that I don't do it again...

Now I have to see if the "scheduled checkpoints" are being created properly.. Lets see.. else I would have to go through another head ache again or I am simply planning to turn the whoe damn thing off - I anyways doing a complete PC backup every week and also backup my data onto another separate drive.. Lets see..

Cheers.

 

Ok well, I checked back and yes, the system restore issue popped up right at the time when I got in JKdefrag and started using it and also I added this reg key for 'enableautolayout' which apparently works in XP for preventing the system from "un-optimizing" the defrag/optimization you just did!! At that time there was no clear sign that this reg key could have probably affected this.. BUt then I added this reg key 3 or 4 days after the system restore issue popped up..

First post on system restore issue >> 07-05-2008, 06:51 PM

Reg key added for disabling the "enableautolayout" >> between 07-05-2008, 08:18 PM and 07-05-2008, 08:26 PM < http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3577249&postcount=45 ; http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3577272&postcount=46 >

JKDefrag first downloaded and used for the first time on 07-04-2008, thats one day before...

I have absolutely no idea... Now I am little bit skeptical about using JKDefrag.. not that it messed but since I am not sure *though I must say JKDefrag is a wonderful too*.... I guess just the default run should be fine I guess... but I remember doing the optimize according to alphabetical order or something with the * - a 7 * option or something... anyways... Let me know people, Please. For now my system doesn't need defrag. Its fine. But let me know so that I can besure if I can use this... or else I guess I would have to make do with the windows built in defrag which was slower than a damn buffalo!!!!

Or.......... I dont know.. I am tired.. just way too tired now

 

Please Take a look at my optimal layout part NOW after I did this Vista Repair thing..... and where I had added that registry key before, now the reg key is gone and so is the LayoutFilePath > prefetch key... Nice eh...

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=3577197&postcount=44

Any ideas people??? Should I add it back? At least the LayoutFilePath key?? Like before???

 

Or is it that I have to wait for a while for the "Layout.ini" file to bre created? I mean I did not delete it manually.. its just not there...

I was thinking, according to these pages, http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=331072 and http://infopirate.org/layout-ini-in-vista , may be the layout.ini file is created after a while or probably I can force create it following their method?? any suggestions people? I'm asking u guys because I trust this place more... thanks again.

 

A Huge Bump >> For a real good reason though.

Why does JkDefrag delete my restore points?
It's not JkDefrag that is deleting your restore points. Restore points use the Shadow Copy service to make snapshots of the disk. JkDefrag does not change files (it only defragments or moves them), but it does change the disk (moving a file is a change to the disk). The Shadow Copy service remembers all these changes in big files in the "C:\System Volume Information\...." folder. When the total amount of diskspace used by shadow copies exceeds a threshold then the oldest snapshot (restore point) is automatically deleted. The threshold can be changed with the "vssadmin" command, see the * vssadmin manpage.


They did say this in the FAQ page of JkDefrag... but I dont know I saw my restore points vanish completely from D:

I just figured out for sure that this system restore issue IS because of JkDefrag (at least in my case!)

Since I did the in-place upgrade / repair of Vista, everything has been fine.. and system restore got back to normal and the scheduled checkpoints and everything were happening well.. Yesterday, I wanted to check out this JkDefrag thing again, and I ran it completely (the default option or the -a 3 one).. Before this, I had both C: and D: enabled for system restore point creation and both had quiet a few restore points in them, including the scheduled checkpoints. But after I finished the JkDefrag, I saw that ALL the restore points in D: were gone! They were all 'deleted'. And so I disabled system restore for both C: and D: and enabled it again and manually created a new restore point, so now both C: and D: had a new restore point. I restart my system, and the scheduled restore point creation (the default one scheduled to run at system startup, with a delay of 30 mins) task did run, but I did not see any scheduled checkpoint creation!!!

Now, as much as I remember and understood, and as one of the Vista Support staff told me, restore points are created only if there is any change in the system or the files for which the system restore point creation happens. So in this case, I can probably understand the absence of a scheduled checkpoint following system startup, since I just made a new restore point manually.

BUT, a scheduled checkpoint is supposed to be done anyways, right? At least before I saw scheduled checkpoints created whenever there was a system startup, and even when I did not make any changes withing those first 30 mins!

I have no idea how this thing works.. But here is the latest story... I am gonna check this again for a few more days and see how it goes. But as of now, it seems to be the JkDefrag thing doing something, and this is what previously I had been doubting as well (please see my previous posts!)

Will be back with any updates. Cheers.

PS., a kind request to people with Vista Ultimate 32bit - If you are using JkDefrag, and if you have enabled system restore point creation (as in the task scheduler), can you please let us know what you are seeing or how is it going for you??? I am asking this so that I can be sure of what I am seeing. For others who have Vista Ult. 32bit, but don't have JkDefrag, but who want to try and check it out, Yes, I would be very happy if you could and get back to us with the details of how its going.

Thanks a lot

 

Update

I was reading here http://www.kessels.com/forum/index.php?topic=561.0 , here http://support.microsoft.com/kb/301224 and here http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=312067&sd=RMVP

So at the moment, my understanding stands like, the restore points in D: alone were deleted.. and my shadow copy storage size is 900 MB in D:.. so I have a feeling that during the defragmentation process, the shadow copy increased in size since VSS tries to copy every file that was moved during the defragmentation, and since it grew beyond the user fixed size (or limit, lets say), ALL the restore points were deleted in D:.

While it did not happen in C: because I still have the default 15% of total space for shadow copy storage and hence nothing was deleted there due to enough space!!

BUT, why am I not seeing the scheduled checkpoints? Probably because there were no changes made to the system? I don't know really... neither do I understand in *complete technical detail* as to how this system restore point thing works!

Any inputs would be very nice Thanks a lot people